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How can states now force teachers to re-apply for their jobs every year?

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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 05:55 PM
Original message
How can states now force teachers to re-apply for their jobs every year?
I saw that in a post on here and I'm wondering...is there ANY other profession (aside from sports) where you have to reapply every year?! Isn't there some sort of standard set into law somewhere?

This is starting to smell like a civil rights issue to me.
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. They have doing this for 10 years in Minneapolis. n/t
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. It makes me wonder why anyone wants to be a teacher with the lack of respect they get
as well as being blamed for the financial difficulties in the states.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah, exactly my thoughts too (post #3).
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. IMO if one were young today and contemplating a teaching profession some would
look IMO for a completely different vocation. They are on a campaign to destroy the teaching profession in this country at all levels. And it plays into their hands of having a stupid dumbed down population working for minimum wage.

It's all part of the plan, none of this is by chance. It's outrageous. I hope Americans pay more attention next time they vote.

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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. I've spent half my career working under contracts.
In software engineering, acting as a contract employee is a fairly common thing. You get hired for a contract with a fixed term, and when the contract is up the employer has the choice of terminating, extending, or renegotiating the contract.

I'm not sure how prevalent it is, but I know that it's present in a lot of white collar professional fields including finance, medicine, and law.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Teaching is different. That is because school starts at a particular
day of the year. A teacher who has had contract, say for five years, and suddenly is not renewed, cannot easily apply for another job. By the time the contracts for the coming school year are finally announced, the time for applying in other districts will have passed.

This will completely disrupt the organization of the schools and cost taxpayers extra money because the school districts will hire a whole new bunch of people to assess teacher performance and select who is to be rehired on a yearly basis.

I hope you understand now why requiring teachers to reapply for their jobs every year is inefficient and should not become the norm.

I would like to know how much Minneapolis spends on the entire process of rehiring teacher each year. I would also like to know its attrition rate. How many good teachers leave the Minneapolis schools each year.

This would create chaos.

In Europe, my children had the same classroom teacher for the first four years of school. That is a good system for the children. They don't have to adjust to a new teacher with new rules, a new temperament, etc. every year. Children learn to respond to their teacher's methods for discipline and keeping order. It really helps kids learn more easily if they already know what their specific teacher will expect of them during the coming year.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I was not defending the idea of applying renewing contracts to teachers.
My wife and I both teach (she, as her full time chosen profession as a schoolteacher, and myself as an adjunct who was graciously offered a lot of overload by my college when my "real job" was terminated), and we both oppose this idea. I was merely responding to the question asked in the OP as to whether this sort of thing is common in other fields.
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's a good system

I remember in the first 3 grades we had one teacher all day and then in 4th grade we changed classes. I remember the adjustment you are talking about.

Having the same teacher for 4 years assuming they were good really makes more sense biology/mother wise.
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. This whole teacher issue really confuses me.

On this issue to my mind in the areas where they are doing it I wonder what criteria exactly they use for renewal? I can see somebody does this to look tough but then who gets retained and who gets booted has a lot more with who you know, are married to or etc than how well their students do.

On the broader subject I just don't understand the whole issue of teacher quality.

I mean how do they test the teachers job performance?? I can understand if the classroom has kids totally out of control you can say the teacher isn't doing the job. On the other hand say you have some school in a really poor area. Education is not a value in the community. Then how do they judge the teacher? Do they compare them to a school in a more affluent part of town? Know what I'm saying??

Also most stuff I've seen seems to say one of the biggest things is small class size. Yet you hear NOBODY talking about making classes smaller to save schools. So I can't decide if some of the people complaining are interested in smaller schools and more teachers so there's more one on one??
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Good questions...in NY schools, real estate taxes pay
for the schools so the kids in Westchester get much more money for their schools than a small, rural school, yet they all take the same tests. There is no way you can compare - it should't even be legal to make them take the same tests, since they get different money toward their education. It's crazy!!
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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. It is the Teacher's Union they hate
I think this is all a tool to keep teacher's around long enough to have a strong union. All of this is to chase out the people who have been around long enough to have learned how to fight the system.

Why else get rid of the people who know the job best?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. if you want to make a difference with children in poverty
keeping the same teacher in the primary greats is a great idea that costs NOTHING! building a trusting relationship with a teacher and with a school would help to stabilize the whole family.
the other pretty much free idea would be to move the start time of high school to noon. or at least to 10 o'clock. simple biology. my kids had all sorts of problems because of sleep issues. talk to teachers and admins about that and they would roll their eyes.

but then schools are not organized for the kids.
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erinlough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. In my district the reason for this
is SPORTS! Practice and games would be impossible to get to if the day were any later. It could be just my district, but we are rural and the games we play are hours away. I do agree it would make more sense.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. that's what they always say, but the sports kids are
usually 'larks' and could play before school without too much trouble.
lots of families count on older kids to babysit, but we could serve a lot more kids well by making the school day longer. make room for music and art and play.
i know mc donalds would be upset but without the high school kids as customers, they need fewer workers. we'll all be working there soon, anyway.

but the bottom line is that kids are COMMITTING SUICIDE because we are fucking with their biology out of some twisted puritan work ethic.
sorry. pet peeve.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have to prove myself with every project I do . . .
Did it when I worked for others (welcome to "Employment at Will"), do it even more acutely since I started my own firm.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Its not technically against the law as I understand it
If there are no civil service protections in place, it is fine. Private industry could do it if they chose to. Arguably that is what happens in pro sports to some extent as well.

Is it right is a different issue...
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badtoworse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. This happens in private industry and is accepted
When your contract is up, it's up to the employer if he wantes to offer you another contract. If he was happy with the service you provided, you get offerred another contract. If not, then the employer does not make you a new offer. This is the way most professional athletes work and most consultants work this way as well.

I've worked this way and I'm fine with it. I don't have a problem with a government agency employing this model, but in the case of teachers, I think the employer should be required to give notice at the end of the school year that a contract will not be renewed.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. It seems like a waste of time and energy.
But we certainly can't let them have tenure or anything like it now, can we?
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
13. That is the practice for Texas teachers as well... including AFT
the fear in the DISD is that it will cause the elimination of tenured teachers for lower-salaried,less-experienced ones(DISD is looking at laying off 1000+ next year)...we won't know until the new budget is revealed by Texas legislature...hasn't been done yet.
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groundloop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. I understand that some professions are "contract", but teaching shouldn't be like that.
I worked as a contract engineer for awhile myself, so am familiar with the concept. HOWEVER, it's ridiculous to apply the same logic to teachers. As a contract engineer I made really really good money, so it wasn't a big deal to go several weeks without income when a job was finished. That's not the case for teachers. I get sick and tired of teabaggers blaming them for all the problems with state budgets. Treating teachers like this is a slap in the face, how in the hell are we going to attract the best and brightest when there's not even a pretense of continuity and job security?


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Snoutport Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. The School Board OK's all new hires in my district. What if the RW takes over the School Board
I think this is another piece of the puzzle and worthy of its own post. But, if the RW gets control of the school board then, on a yearly basis, they will get to review every teacher. Any teacher that has stood up against a RW school board will be gone. They can't do this if there is such a thing as tenure.
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