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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:56 AM
Original message



Obamas Libya War: Unconstitutional, Nave, Hypocritical
By Matthew Rothschild
Editor of The Progressive
March 19, 2011

Our founders would be appalled that a President of the United States could launch the country into an armed conflict half a world away without a formal declaration of war by Congress, much less barely any discussion of it by the House or by the Senate.

At this point in the warping of our system of checks and balances, a President can wage war almost whenever he feels like it or at least whenever he can cobble together some broad coalition, as Obama put it, or a coalition of the willing, as his predecessor put it.

Sounding just like George W. Bush when he attacked Iraq exactly eight years ago to the day, Obama said that military action against Libya was not our first resort.

Well, it may not have been the first resort, but it sure is Washingtons favorite resort.

We, as Americans, need to face facts: We have a runaway Executive Branch when it comes to warmaking.

Please read the full article at:

http://www.progressive.org/wx031911.html
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. We're also a minor player under the auspices of the UN
so perhaps the writer is a little overwrought. Obama isn't running this show, after all.

I don't like violence as a solution any more than he does but there's a difference between going in as a member of the UN and destroying military capability and going in as a swaggering cowboy and destroying everything but the oil wells.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It should probably read: 'Obama, Cameron, Sarkozy's War'
But that's such a mouthful
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. But more accurate.
Still, nobody in Europe really wanted Gadhafi gone. He really was doing a great job of stemming the tide of illegal immigration from impoverished Africa into Europe. He played ball with the oil companies (and pocketed the loot). So he was brutal and crazy, that was Libya's problem, not Europe's.

However, hiring an army from the same impoverished Africa and using it to slaughter his own people was a bit too much even for them, I guess.

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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. According to the US General who is conducting the war?
Don't be absurd.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Without U.S. leadership do you think this military operation would be happening?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. Yes.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. By whom and with what?
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. 110 American Tomahawk missiles fired at targets inside Libya
That sounds like America is taking a broad role, and not some minor player as you suggest.
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Duende azul Donating Member (608 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. That must be the "change".

The liberal way of war.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Past Presidents have gotten around the pesky Article I, Section 8 provision
by denying military involvement was tantamount to "war". It was "military defense" or "military conflict" or "protecting national interests" or the new one, "security". But not "war". The "War Department" had its name changed to "Defense Department" in consideration of future circumvention around Congress.

The last official "war" was World War II, Congress declared it upon the recommendation of the President, and there were only two votes in opposition, one of them being Rep. Jeanette Rankin.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. The U.S. signed the U.N. Charter
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. So did Libya. And, China, Russian, Germany, India, Brasil, and Andorra.
But, somehow, they decided not to get involved in another war.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. They didn't vote no, did they?
Any one of them could have stopped it and they didn't.


<..> I do not think this resolution is wrong, Medvedev told reporters in his suburban residence Gorki on Monday. The document reflects Russias understanding of what is going on in Libya, he said. The president added that this was the reason why Russian diplomats did not veto the resolution during the voting and said that he personally instructed the Foreign Ministry on the issue. The Foreign Ministry fulfilled my instructions, he said. However, Russia does not support certain details in the document, the president said.

http://rt.com/politics/medvedev-un-resolution-lybia/
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. No. Not an one of them. India, Brasil, and Germany are not permanent members and don't have a veto
From China

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/98649/7326329.h...

On March 19, multinational forces, including France, the United Kingdom and the United States launched military strikes against Libya, which not only hit military targets, but also caused civilian casualties.

Based on the principles of the U.N. Charter as well as from the perspective of morality and international law, people have good reason to express regret over the strike on Libya, a sovereign nation.

Shockwaves caused by the first round of military action show the likelihood of a more serious escalation of armed conflict and the chances of humanitarian crisis have increased. How to stabilize the situation in Libya as soon as possible presents a test to the international community's crisis management capabilities and wisdom to maintain a stable system of international relations.

The international community has been trying to urge the Libyan Government and the opposition to realize reconciliation through dialogue and negotiations, so that the country's social stability and the normal order can be restored. At the end of last month, the U.N. Security Council adopted Resolution No. 1970, which imposed strict sanctions on Libya.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. How long has it been since a politician read it? Do what you want is not in it!
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Obviously a lot of them need to read it and understand what was signed.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rec'd. You can't put enough lipstick on this pig to turn it into anything but another illegal war n/
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 12:14 PM by Catherina
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Congress could stop this kind of shit
All they have to do is cut off the funding that makes it popssible.


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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Our Congress? The Congress that destroyed the health care bill? That looked the other way...
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 12:22 PM by Buzz Clik
... when Bush was tapping every phone in the country? THAT Congress?

No. They might be of some use if we actually threw them out and replaced them with real Democrats. But, not this crew.
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Coyote_Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Whether or not that have the intestional fortitude to do it is
a separte issue from whether or not they have the legal right and constitutional authoity to do it.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. We absolutely agree on that!
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Obama's war? Really? Just like Bush?
Get a clue. I'm very serious. Your bile is beyond annoying.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. a must read for those unafraid of the truth no matter how much it hurts to know it.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. SSDD
:thumbsdown:
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Yup...nt
Sid
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. calling this unconstitutional is naive
Have the War Powers Act declared unconstitutional in the supreme court and you might have a point, until then this statement is simply false.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. So the Constitution says the President can conduct a war for 60 days without Congressional approval
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 12:32 PM by Better Believe It
Really?

Link please.

Of course this right-wing Supreme Court is likely to void any part of the Constiution they don't like.
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Shiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. Jefferson did the exact same thing in 1801
The First Barbary War. Jefferson sent a group of frigates without congressional approval to attack, ironically, Tripoli. Jefferson, last I checked, was one of the founders.

Additionally, Obama did nothing to "cobble together" a broad coalition. From what I've read, this was mostly spearheaded by France.

How well was this editorial fact-checked?
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. The Ohio Company invaded the Ohio Nations as soon as the Revolutionary War ended.
The formed before the Revolution. Planning ahead is a good thing!

More revolutionary war officers are buried in one Ohio cemetery than in any other.

America was built on invasions and genocide, a geopolitical Ponzi scheme.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. One of the good things Obama has done.
Not like Bush in Iraq -- no, like Clinton in Bosnia.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Let's see, if he does 50 good things, which countries will excape his goodness?
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 01:18 PM by L. Coyote
I say bomb the fifty biggest countries :sarcasm: so he gets to see what pissing off other countries/people really means :rofl:
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