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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:42 AM
Original message
Is Libya a threat to the US?
I could support military force being used if I was convinced that Libya was a threat to America, but I don't see it. Perhaps Libya has WMD hidden somewhere? Has this angle been brought up yet? How about Quadaffi, is he secretly affiliated with Al Queada? Is he planning mass attacks in our cities?

Failing this, I don't see a legitimate reason for the US to get involved.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nobody is a threat to the US.
Except the US.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. +1
PB
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. +1
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Another +1
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. and another +1
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
3. Those pesky gas prices ... nt
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. So, we should not use military force in order to help a particular population against an aggressor,
unless that aggressor is also a threat to the United States?

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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Why Libya and not Ivory Coast?
Or Bahrain? Or . . . well, this could go on and on. The basic question is why Libya and not somewhere else?
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Oil
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. Kosovo.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yes, the choice of who to help is difficult, but I think helping people through the use of ...
military force is justified in certain situations. Which situations can be a difficult decision, but I think we help the image of our country, to say nothing about making good moral choices, when we use our military to assist populations where it is justified.

Do we do nothing because we cannot do everything?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Except we made an affirmative choice anent Libya and Libya only
I'm not trying to pit the good against the perfect, but it's natural to wonder why Libya and not anywhere else. It hasn't been notably more brutal in Libya than Bahrain. And Ivory Coast has been suffering for quite a bit longer under brutal government repression. But boy oh boy, didn't a coalition form fast, and didn't folks move quickly on Libya. Why?
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. No, you're right. There are good reasons not to help Libyans. I just wanted to stake out a ...
position that whether or not a state is a threat to the US is an insufficient reason to use (or not use) military force to help others in a conflict, as was implied in the OP.
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. Topple the leader; let chaos prevail for awhile; insert "democratic"
elections; put in new hand-picked leader; whip up patriotic pride in military action; pump reconstruction money and contractors into country; hope for best; deed done, on to the next despot; repeat until all outcomes achieve peace and harmony worldwide. the end.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. That is how I see it, I don't think the US has the moral authority
to play worlds policeman.

I don't see the US role as being one where we use military force as if we are the civilized freedom liberators to every country in the world.

The US lost all moral authority when they invaded Iraq on lies IMHO.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. UN is playing world's policeman
You can make arguments whether or not that is inappropriate.
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. If we go down that path we can't be selective
only helping those oppressed people who happen to sit on oil.

And once done we couldn't simply abandon them to anarchy and poverty otherwise it would be a pointless intervention. We'd be in for the long-haul.

We could do it, maybe, with a draft and full war-time economy. It would mean a major hit to our standard of living, frequent terrorist attacks on our soil as we create enemies everywhere, and of course much fewer freedoms.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. So far we know very little about this "particular population"
motives, or anything else. As this situation is looked at carefully, the facts about this whole rebel thing get muddier and non-linear. One might suspect that it is a bait & switch tactic not unlike Iraq's WMD.
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fittosurvive Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Absolutely not. Americas sons and daughters are not your pawns
to be sacrificed on the altar of what you, the United Nations, or any other country believe to be more valuable than their lives.

They have elected people to represent them and they are the only ones authorized to make this decision.

Are you familiar with the concept of inalienable rights?
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WatsonT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, Libya is the greatest threat the US has ever faced
they have sent waves of terrorists our way, personally funded 9/11 and if we don't fight them over there we will have to fight them here.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. The mighty Libyan navy has an invasion fleet off Atlantic City.
Libyan marines will soon be overruning the casinos and taking up all the parking spaces.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
11. Isolationism is a traditional conservative position, but you're welcome to it.
Now let's answer a few more questions:

- Is poverty a threat to an upper-middle class person like me?
- Is the loss of collective bargaining rights a threat to a non-union employee like me?
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. +1
Great points!
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fittosurvive Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. How about this question?
Are you willing to sacrifice your life for the Libyan revolution?
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fittosurvive Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. .
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 12:32 PM by fittosurvive
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krabigirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. It's actually a classical liberal position, but ok.
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kudzu22 Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
13. There's no question that Libya has WMDs
It's well known that they have stockpiles of chemical weapons. However, they weren't a threat to the US until we started bombing them.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Who is arguing that. Nobody. N/T
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. Ask the families of the passegers on Pan Am Flight 103
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Alamuti Lotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Can the families of the passengers on Iran Air 655 start bombing American cities, then?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
44. It is quite plausable that the Iran Air 655 was a case of mistaken identity, but
Gaddafi himself ordered the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing:

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/muammar-gaddafi-or...
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. interesting dodge, but what do you think?
Is Libya a threat to the US? Its a pretty simple question...
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-22-11 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. Libya is a threat as long as Gaddafi is in charge
He has shown that by his past actions.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. No, but the UN has a responsibility to protect civilians. The US should support the UN or
withdraw from it (a repub wet dream).
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. +1
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fittosurvive Donating Member (538 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. When did we authorize the UN to decide which issues justify the sacrifice of our sons and daughters?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. 10 members of the Securtiy Council is not "the UN".
I wonder how well that vote would have gone if presented to the General Assembly.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. It may be a threat to some giant US based multi-national oil corporations
or their subsidiaries.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm glad France saw a legitimate reason to get involved in 1776.
I'm not much for monarchs.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Uh..France was a Monarchy at that time. And, far more autocratic than England.
And, their "legitimate reason" to involve themselves wasn't about supporting democracy.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. Senator Robert Menendez said "Responsible for Lockerbie and he has Mustard Seed Gas..."
Edited on Mon Mar-21-11 12:44 PM by KoKo
This a.m. on CNN. Sounded like Bush/Cheney. But, then he did go on to say (when pressed) that US involvement should be limited and no military on the ground. :shrug:

BTW: Mustard "Seed" gas is a new one. Mustard gas used in WWI...but never heard it called "mustard seed gas" before. Maybe I missed something about how it's made, though.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. No but the current regime is a threat to BP's 50 Billion Pound Investment in Libya n/t
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. that claim has never been made
straw man.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Of course not.
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pokerfan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
43. If you define security broadly enough, one can justify anything. (nt)
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