Libyan Revolution Day 32 part 2 (RIP Mohammed Nabbous, Libya Hurra!)

[joshcryer]

Links to sites with updates: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0">AJE Live Blog March 21 (today) http://blogs.aljazeera.net/twitter-dashboard">AJE Twitter Dashboard http://feb17.info/">feb17.info http://www.livestream.com/libya17feb?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks">Libya Alhurra (live video webcast from Benghazi) http://www.libyafeb17.com/">libyafeb17.com

Twitter links: http://twitter.com/#!/aymanm">Ayman Mohyeldin, with AJE http://twitter.com/#!/bencnn">Ben Wedeman, with CNN http://twitter.com/#!/tripolitanian">tripolitanian, a Libyan from Tripoli http://twitter.com/#!/BaghdadBrian">Brian Conley, reporter in Libya http://twitter.com/#!/freelibyanyouth">FreeLibyanYouth, Libyan advocate http://twitter.com/#!/LibyaFeb17_com">LibyaFeb17.com twitter account http://twitter.com/#!/ChangeInLibya">ChangeInLibya, Libyan advocate

Useful links: http://audioboo.fm/feb17voices">feb17voices http://www.google.com/search?q=time+in+libya">Current time in Libya http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayerNew.php?country=libya">Prayer times in Libya

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x701502">Day 32 part 1 here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/20/air-strikes-clear-skies">Air strikes clear the skies but leave endgame uncertain
Each of the 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles missiles fired by coalition forces against Libyan targets was equipped with a tiny video camera that beamed back images of where the missile was going, and what it hit.

This footage was being pored over by analysts in the hours after the first wave of attacks , and the evidence will inform the coalition commander, Admiral Samuel Locklear of the US navy, and the British and French team that answers to him, about how successful they have been – and where to strike next.

British officials were coy about this, saying that it would take time to sift through the evidence – which will be corroborated, where possible, by witness accounts from special forces soldiers on the ground and photographs taken by satellites and surveillance planes.

The US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, was a little more forthcoming, saying the operations, which included bombings around Tripoli by RAF Tornado ground attack jets, had destroyed Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's air defence systems and batteries of surface-to-air missiles.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x677397">Text of the resolution.

How will a no fly zone work? AJE reports: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWEwehTtK2k

Canada:

http://winnipeg.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110317/cf-libya-canada/20110317/?hub=WinnipegHome">Canada to send six CF-18s for Libya 'no-fly' mission
Canada will contribute six CF-18 fighter jets to help enforce a no-fly zone in Libya, sources have told CTV News.

Norway:

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFOSN00509220110318">Norway to join military intervention in Libya
OSLO, March 18 (Reuters) - Norway will join the international military action against Muammar Gaddafi's forces in Libya, a Norwegian daily quoted the defence minister as saying on its website on Friday.

"We will contribute to the operation," Grete Faremo told the daily Verdens Gang. "But it is too early to say exactly in what way. Sending air capabilities would be natural."

Belgium:

http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/monde/2011-03-18/la-belgique-prete-a-une-operation-militaire-en-libye-828970.php">Belgium ready for a military operation in Libya
Our country is available to take part in a military operation in Libya, following the UN vote authorizing the use of force against Gaddafi. The government has observed, in Parliament yesterday, a broad consensus in the Belgian political class on the need to prevent the Libyan leader to crush the rebellion in Benghazi.

Qatar and the UAE:

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/776/?SID=e80884adc09a37d26904578a9b5978cb">Run-up for Western world’s next military commitment ... with unusual support
France and the United Kingdom, which spearheaded the diplomatic push in the Security Council for the implementation of a no-fly zone, received unusual but certainly very welcome support. According to a further unnamed AFP source, the Council confirmed that Qatar and the UAE will join the international effort.

Denmark:

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/international/89-international/51229-denmark-ready-for-action-against-gaddafi.html">Denmark ready for action against Gaddafi
Espersen will discuss the resolution “as soon as possible” with the other political parties.

“We’re ready to take action immediately, and that includes ensuring prompt treatment of the resolution in parliament, so that Denmark can deploy its four F-16 fighter jets,” she said.

France:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/africa/19libya.html?src=twrhp">Following U.N. Vote, France Vows Libya Action ‘Soon’
UNITED NATIONS — Only hours after the United Nations Security Council voted to authorize military action, including airstrikes against Libyan tanks and heavy artillery and impose a no-flight zone to try to avert a rout of rebels by forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. French officials said on Friday that military action would start “within a few hours” and news reports said British and French warplanes would spearhead the attack.

Italy:

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE72G2HE20110317">Italy to make bases available for Libya no-fly zone-source
TUNIS, March 17 (Reuters) - Italy is ready to make its military bases available to enforce a U.N. Security Counci resolution imposing a no-fly zone on Libya, an Italian government source told Reuters on Thursday.

United Kingdom:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12770467">Libya: UK forces prepare after UN no-fly zone vote
UK forces are preparing to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya after the UN backed "all necessary measures", short of an invasion, to protect civilians.

United States:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/nations-draw-up-plans-for-no-fly-zone-over-libya-1.2765122">Nations draw up plans for no-fly zone over Libya
The United States, France and Britain were making plans Friday to prevent Moammar Gadhafi's forces from attacking Libyans after the U.N. Security Council authorized a no-fly zone over Libya and "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

Jordan:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/military-strikes-on-libya-within-hours-20110318-1bzii.html?from=smh_sb">Military strikes on Libya 'within hours'
Jordan, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates will join international forces ready to enforce the no-fly zone, US Congress and UN diplomatic sources say.

Spain:

http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/19/2801s627320.htm">Spain Expected to Join NATO No-fly Zone Enforcement over Libya Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero is expected to confirm Spain's contribution of two air force bases at a summit in Paris to discuss the enforcement of a no-fly zone over Libya Saturday.

"One month ago (Western countries) were sooo nice, so nice like pussycats," Saif says in a contemptuous sing-song tone."Now they want to be really aggressive like tigers. (But) soon they will come back, and cut oil deals, contracts. We know this game." - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2058389,00.html">Saif Gaddafi

(Yeah, Saif, as if you weren't "cutting oil deals, contracts" with western states. Who are the 'tigers' now? Bombing your own people.)

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-10-0">March 10 7:28pm Saif al Islam Gaddafi says "the time has come for full-scale military action" against Libyan rebels. He goes on to say that Libyan forces loyal to his family "will never surrender, even if western powers intervene".

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/02/25/world/middleeast/map-of-how-the-protests-unfolded-in-libya.html">Click here for updated map

Military Installations



Oil Map



http://bit.ly/fe3P">Google Earth DL here to see positions of army and patrolling route of mercenaries

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=212059469427545728757.00049c4df2474b6543347&ll=31.203405,30.058594&spn=96.173452,183.867188&z=3">MAP of Protests across the Middle East

Mohammed Nabbous, killed by Gaddafi's forces while trying to report on the massacre in Benghazi

"I'm not afraid to die, I'm afraid to lose the battle" -Mohammed Nabbous, a month ago when all this began

I'm struggling to come up with something to say about this man. I was not aware of the Libyan uprising until I saw Mo's first report, begging for help, posted here on DU. I was stricken. Here was a man giving everything he had to explain a situation that clearly terrified him, I would not call him a coward in that moment, but you could see the fear in his eyes, and desperation in his voice. For 30 days Nabbous would spend many hours covering the uprising in Benghazi. For many nights I would go to sleep with the webcast of Benghazi live on my computer screen, looking to it occasionally to be sure it was still 'there.' Mo treated the chat room as if we were his friends, and in some way, we were. I never signed up to LiveStream to thank him for all his work and it seems somewhat shallow to do so now, given that I was a lurker for so long. Ever since I took over posting these threads "Libya Alhurra" has been linked as a source of information. It wasn't until last night, when I posted, and twitter posted on Mo's adventures out into Benghazi to try to determine the truth of the situation, that Mo's webchannel became a hit, over 2000 people were watching him stream live. This was curious to him because he'd done many reports like this in the past but he appeared somewhat bemused that the view count exploded as it did. Last night Mo became a star. This is a man who first started out with a webcast replete with fear and desperation finally overcoming that aspect of himself and losing that fear, to become someone who was a fighter for the resistance just as much as those who held the guns. Reporting on the front lines of Benghazi became his final act, and for that he should never, ever be forgotten. I'm so sorry Mo that I never got to know you better.

Mo leaves behind a wife who is with child.

Mo's first report, which many of you may remember, begging for help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38EXALI60hg

Mo's last report, a fallen hero trying to spread the word to the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecu_iWLn-rg

[joshcryer]

1. Current time in Libya is 4:07am Monday, March 21

[joshcryer]

2. LPC from #Benghazi: When ppl saw how big the tanks coming to #Benghazi were, "jaws dropped." #Libya

http://audioboo.fm/boos/308051-lpc-from-benghazi-when-ppl-saw-how-big-the-tanks-coming-to-benghazi-were-jaws-dropped-libya-feb17

[joshcryer]

3. Wow! Listen: Secret Libya Psyops, Caught by Online Sleuths

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/03/secret-libya-psyops/">Listen: Secret Libya Psyops, Caught by Online Sleuths
The U.S. military has dispatched one of its secret propaganda planes to the skies around Libya. And that “Commando Solo” aircraft is telling Libyan ships to remain in port – or risk NATO retaliation.

We know this, not because some Pentagon official said so, but because one Dutch radio geek is monitoring the airwaves for information about Operation Odyssey Dawn — and tweeting the surprisingly-detailed results. On Sunday alone, “Huub” has identified the tail numbers, call signs, and movements of dozens of NATO aircraft: Italian fighter jets, American tankers, British aerial spies, U.S. bombers, and the Commando Solo psyops plane (pictured).

“If you attempt to leave port, you will be attacked and destroyed immediately,” the aircraft broadcasted late Sunday night.

It’s the kind of information that the American military typically tries to obscure, at least until a mission is over. But Huub is just a single node in a sprawling online network that trawls the airwaves for clues to military operations.

[joshcryer]

4. France is beefing up its contribution to the Libyan campaign with the aircraft Charles de Gaulle

0205: France is beefing up its contribution to the Libyan campaign with the aircraft carrier, Charles de Gaulle, due off the Libyan coast in the next 48 hours. It left the Mediterranean port of Toulon on Sunday and is currently taking on its consignment of Rafale and Super Etendard aircraft. It should take 24 hours to reach its destination but will need more time for the 20 aircraft it can carry to meet it and conduct landing exercises.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[joshcryer]

5. "Once again, French jets flying from bases in France were in the skies over Benghazi on Sunday."

0209: The BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says. "Once again, French jets flying from bases in France were in the skies over Benghazi on Sunday. The defence ministry spokesman here said that the allied action was already proving effective. The fact that French planes did not report any more strikes on targets on Sunday showed that the threat on Benghazi was easing, though he did concede it may be hard for pilots to hit tanks or armoured vehicles if they are close to heavily populated areas."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[joshcryer]

6. MIsrata, "The situation now is very scary for people due to the attacks."

0215: A resident of Misrata, about 200km east of Tripoli, tells the BBC: "The situation now is very scary for people due to the attacks. There were many tanks and troops. They shot everywhere, including residential areas. Many people were killed because of the random shooting. The (pro-Gaddafi forces) control one street of the city, and people cannot move in that area. There are many snipers and the tanks are firing all over."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[joshcryer]

7. Josh Marshell: Just a Bad, Bad Idea

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/03/at_the_end_of_last.php">Just a Bad, Bad Idea
At the end of last week I couldn't help tweeting that everything I was seeing in Libya was bringing out my inner foreign policy Realist. And everything I've seen this weekend has confirmed me in that view. Indeed, there are so many reasons this strikes me as a bad idea I really hardly know where to start. So let me focus on the three biggest problems I see.

First, insurrections like these by poorly organized rebel forces depend hugely on momentum and the perceived weakness of the leader. Not long ago Qaddafi's authority appeared to be crumbling. Numerous members of the regime were defecting to the inchoate rebel forces. It seemed like only a matter of days. Perhaps hours. The turning point came when Qaddafi stabilized the front moving into western Libya. Once that happened, once he'd halted the momentum toward collapse, it was very bad news for the rebels because as we've seen Qaddafi had all the heavy weapons and command and control on his side. By this weekend, without massive outside intervention, it's pretty clear Qaddafi had already won.

A week ago a relatively limited intervention probably could have sealed the rebels' victory, preventing a reeling Qaddafi from fully mobilizing his heavy armaments. But where do we expect to get from this now? It's not clear to me how the best case scenario can be anything more than our maintaining a safe haven in Benghazi for the people who were about to be crushed because they'd participated in a failed rebellion. So Qaddafi reclaims his rule over all of Libya except this one city which has no government or apparent hope of anything better than permanent limbo. Where do we go with that?

We're calling a time out on a really ugly situation the fundamental dynamics of which we aren't in any position to change. That sounds like a mess.

[bobbolink]

10. Interesting take. Lots of stuff to think about in that.

I have no control over what is being done, so I can only hope for the best.

If they were going to do this, from what this person is saying, I wish they had done it a lot earlier.

However, that Dutch radio geek sounds like he is really on top of things!

Thanks for these reports!

[joshcryer]

11. Don't always agree with Josh Marshell but I'm trying to be balanced.

This particular report is fairly good but I do think that the rebellion isn't as 'weak' as he implied, I mean, they were going up against heavy weapons, what could they have done? They were also disorganized and untrained. The question is how long are they going to take to get trained and to get ready to take Tripoli?

[bobbolink]

12. I appreciat that you are printing different views. Not like what we have been accused of.

I don't know anything about this particular person... I take it he is not on the ground.

For being "disorganized", they were certainly able to give a powerful army a scare!

I guess I was assuming that if the Ghadoofus jet bombing raids were stopped, that the revolutionaries would be able to get back to the guerilla fighting, which seemed to be doing well. Is that realistic?

[druidity33]

46. I agree with him less and less...

and it bothers me that readers can't leave comments on TPM. At least not to the opinion pieces Josh writes... which is where comments would be most appropriate.

:shrug:

[Waiting For Everyman]

17. There's no substance to that opinion. What a load of bunk.

Seems that commentator can only imagine change in one direction. Before, the insurgents had the upper hand. Now Gaddafi does. So it's suddenly impossible to change again, just as easily? Uh... why? Obviously, "confidence" there in Libya is fluid, it isn't set in stone. Seems to me, with obvious unlimited military power now backing the insurgents - the flightly public opinion there is going to once again swing back to the insurgents before too long. All it takes is retaking some towns that they already took before WITHOUT any help. Now they HAVE help. And just how is Gaddafi going to stop them this time, when he can't squash them from the air?

For once, I agree with John McCain who said this morning he is "confident" the insurgents will win, and so am I. I don't think that is farfetched at all.

These opinion-minions like this writer always amaze me. Their big skill in life is making a lot of hot air sound credible. But no matter how smooth it sounds, it is still hot air - nothing there. What I wonder is, why are so many people working so hard to drum up support for Gaddafi?

It's real simple, Marshell: the rebels took that string of towns before, there's no reason to think they can't do it again, and when they do public opinion will shift again to their side of the checkerboard. And it isn't your problem to worry about anyway. "We", the West, don't have to wring our hands and clutch our pearls over how to get Gaddafi out or "win" the insurgency. The Libyans will figure out that part of it. It'll happen, or it won't. It's their problem, and their future, and their lives on the line. Not yours. Meanwhile, there's no need to call this a "mess". That is insulting to the brave people of Libya who are paying for a new future with their blood. They aren't demanding any guarantee that it will be a better future. They're just taking that chance. All we're doing, is keeping it a little bit fair from the sidelines. (I know he doesn't read this forum, but I don't care, this guy annoys me.)

Jeez.

I'm not familiar with who this commentator is, but with ideas like that, I'm not interested in finding out. It would be a waste of time.

[joshcryer]

8. Spring Movements, tribute to the Middle East Uprisings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBBZntjQbXM

[joshcryer]

9. McNaught said journalists taken to the scene asked officials why there was no smoke or fire...

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0#update-17401">4:14amThe AFP newsagency, quoting the coalition, says Gaddafi's military control centre was the target of strikes on Sunday and was destroyed.

Libyan officals took journalists to see what they claimed was the damage from a missile attack. Officials said the missiles had struck very near to Gaddafi's tent.

Anita McNaught, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Tripoli, said journalists taken to the scene asked officials why there was no smoke or fire. One official said he didn't know because he wasn't a military expert.

[tabatha]

13. Mo Nabbus (of Libya Al Hurra TV) was targeted.

Had no weapons, sniper shot to his head.
http://tinyurl.com/6hnohot


The Australian write-up.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/rebels-live-and-die-by-western-ideals/story-e6frg6zo-1226025034644


A tribute
http://www.scribd.com/doc/51136162/A-Tribute-to-the-work-of-Mohammed-Nabbous


Libya Alhurra on wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya_Alhurra_TV

[joshcryer]

18. I have no doubt that this is the case.

I've had a hard time sleeping because of this.

[tabatha]

14. U.S. Is Closely Monitoring the Stocks of Libyan Mustard Gas

U.S. “is closely monitoring” mustard gas stocks held by the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, said Sunday U.S. Admiral Michael Mullen, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman, as a coalition of Western countries has intervened in Libya.
“There is a certain amount in stock,” said U.S. Admiral when asked about dangerous gas on the show “Face the Nation” on CBS. “It could do much damage”, he added.

Mustard gas causes severe burns to eyes, skin and lungs.

According to Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), which Libya joined in 2004, Gaddafi’s regime still has over ten tonnes of mustard gas, but it destroyed already the ammunition that allows the use of damaging gas.

Trying to emerge from diplomatic isolation, Muamamr Gaddafi has negotiated for nine months with London and Washington and declared in late 2003 that he gave up weapons of mass destruction, which he always denied that he holds.

Currently, 55 percent of Libyan stocks of mustard gas have been destroyed under the control of OPCW and 11.25 tonnes are still in stock, Michael Luhan, spokesman of the organization told AFP.

Destruction of stocks began in 2010 as stipulated by the convention, and, according to Luhan, took place without problems until February 2011, when rebel forces tried to remove Gaddafi from power.

http://www.dotspress.com/u-s-is-closely-monitoring-the-stocks-of-libyan-mustard-gas/771406/

[bobbolink]

15. What I read about this weeks ago is that Libya has no delivery systems for it.

It could spread it on the ground, but it has no way to project it.

[tabatha]

16. Yes, I read that too.

But Gaddafi is mad, and will probably try anything.

He also has no idea what truth is.

[joshcryer]

19. Video from Misurata from March 18:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSiVshn_vE8&feature=player_embedded

Once can only imagine how it is now.

[joshcryer]

20. Ben Wedeman (@bencnn) & Mohamad Nabbous talk about drugs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5G5ZL91QTs

:cry:

[pinboy3niner]

21. The Guardian's morning summary on Libya

From their current Libya news blog--Libya: Gaddafi holds out against air strikes - live updates:


8am:

Good morning, welcome to the Guardian's live coverage of the continuing military intervention in Libya, as Gaddafi remains in power.


• Coalition forces have launched the second night of air strikes on Libya after halting the advance of Muammar Gaddafi's forces on Benghazi and targeting air defences to allow their planes to enforce the no-fly zone. Vice Admiral Bill Gortney, director of the US military's Joint Staff, told reporters there had been no new Libyan air activity or radar emissions, but a significant decrease in Libyan air surveillance, since the strikes began on Saturday.
Benghazi was not yet free from threat, Gortney said, but Gaddafi's forces in the area were in distress and "suffering from isolation and confusion" after the air assaults.


• France – the first country to bomb Libya on Saturday – said on Monday morning it has no evidence of civilians being killed, contradicting the Arab League, which had said the strikes had "led to the deaths and injuries of many Libyan civilians". A Libyan government health official said 64 people had been killed by Western bombardment on Saturday and Sunday morning, while the Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa called for an emergency meeting of the group's 22 states to discuss Libya. He requested a report on the bombardment, which he said had "led to the deaths and injuries of many Libyan civilians".
"What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians," Egypt's state news agency quoted him as saying.
French government spokesman Francois Baroin told television Canal+ that "there is no information of killed civilians that the French command is aware of".


• Italy joined the attacks on Sunday night, as Gaddafi officials claimed the Libyan leader's Tripoli compound had been targeted. Libyan officials took Western reporters to Gaddafi's compound in Tripoli – a sprawling complex that houses his private quarters as well as military barracks, anti-aircraft batteries and other installations – to show what they claimed was the site of a missile attack two hours earlier.
"It was a barbaric bombing," said government spokesman Mussa Ibrahim, showing pieces of shrapnel that he said came from the missile. "This contradicts American and Western ... that it is not their target to attack this place." The Guardian has been unable to confirm the damage was caused by coalition air strikes.


• The onslaught resumed last night despite a ceasefire announced by the Libyan authorities at 7pm UK time. "We, the Popular Social Leadership of Libya, recommend to the armed forces to announce an immediate ceasefire to all military units," said regime spokesman Ibrahim Moussa in a pre-prepared statement.
Earlier in the day, the Libyan dictator had threatened "a long war", and his forces launched a fresh assault on rebels in Misrata, where one resident in the town said pro-Gaddafi boats in the port were preventing aid from reaching the town.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[pinboy3niner]

22. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 11:05 AM MONDAY, MARCH 21

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours

[pinboy3niner]

23. UK Defence chief: Targeting Gaddafi could "potentially be a possibility"

10:34am

UK defence secretary Liam Fox has told BBC Radio 5 that targeting Gaddafi himself - something the United States has thus far denied doing - could "potentially be a possibility" if civilians would not be harmed.

Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, responded negatively to Fox's comments. He said expanding the coalition's goals could divide it and that it was "unwise" to set such specific goals that might be unachievable.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0

[joshcryer]

24. I don't understand how the UK keeps this option tabled.

I thought it was illegal, period, to target "leaders."

[pinboy3niner]

26. Fuggedaboutit. He wants to put a hit out on him, see?

He wants him to sleep with the fishes.

Hey, I thought the U.S. abduction of Noriega from Panama was outrageous--but what do I know?

I wonder if Ban Ki-moon will say anything about this. I'm sure he'll be asked about it.

[tabatha]

58. Bob Gates is actually a pretty level-headed guy.

He has done some "progressive" stuff.

[joshcryer]

25. Didn't know, 219 Arab orgs called for NFZ:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x705275

Thanks to Turborama.

[pinboy3niner]

27. That's Arab organizations nt

[joshcryer]

28. Thanks, fixed.

Stupid mistake. :rofl:

[Waiting For Everyman]

39. This is a wowser.

Good find, Turborama.

[joshcryer]

29. Pro-Gaddafi demonstrators mob Ban Ki-moon in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the AFP reports.

0931: Pro-Gaddafi demonstrators mob Ban Ki-moon in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the AFP reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[joshcryer]

30. More on the reported incident in Tahrir Square.

0934: More on the reported incident in Tahrir Square. An AFP correspondent says about 50 pro-Gaddafi demonstrators surrounded the UN chief in the square, forcing him to retreat into the adjacent Arab League headquarters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[pinboy3niner]

31. AJE: Yemen military deployed to protect protesters gathering in Sanaa

Lots going on in Yemen with protesters demanding President resign. Coverage on AJE, CNN.

[joshcryer]

32. Should be coming to a head real soon I think.

[pinboy3niner]

42. Top army generals defect in Yemen (declare support for protesters, and move to protect them)

Posted in GD by cali:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x705376

[joshcryer]

43. Now as long as bullets don't start firing we can expect...

...a resolution (or the beginnings of a process for total resolution) in the next two-three weeks. Which is certainly a long time coming for them.

But if the bullets do start firing... :(

I'll hope for the former situation.

[joshcryer]

33. Pro-Gaddafi forces killed seven people in the rebel-held western town of Misrata on Sunday

0939: Pro-Gaddafi forces killed seven people in the rebel-held western town of Misrata on Sunday, a rebel spokesman is quoted as saying by Reuters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12776418

[joshcryer]

34. The spokesman also says that pro-Gaddafi forces are now bringing civilians to use as human shields

0952: The rebel spokesman also says that pro-Gaddafi forces are now bringing civilians from nearby towns to Misrata to use them as a human shield.

[bobbolink]

67. I'm guessing these are mostly mercs. Is that correct, or do we know?

[pinboy3niner]

69. They may be either regular army or mercs

Even the regular army has recruited for years from other African states and nomadic tribes (especially the Tuareg tribe). There is probably a distinction to be made between these regular recruits and the more recent hires brought in to help Gaddafi crush the opposition.

Mercenaries usually are identified only after they're captured or killed (from the identification and travel papers they carry from their home nations).

[bobbolink]

70. Thank you for that clarification.

I have a hard time believing that there are many people living in Libya who actually still believe Gaddoufus is really a good leader for Libya.

But, that is my bias. ^_^

[Turborama]

35. K&R Still can't see this though...

:P

Had any sleep yet?

I'm on about 3 hours a night at the moment, have been for the past couple of months.

[joshcryer]

37. There. :P

[joshcryer]

36. Rebels report air strikes, eye Libya east town

http://af.reuters.com/article/libyaNews/idAFLDE72K0D820110321">Rebels report air strikes, eye Libya east town
ZUEITINA, Libya, March 21 (Reuters) - Western forces launched air strikes until early on Monday on Muammar Gaddafi's forces around Ajdabiyah, a strategic town in east Libya that rebels aim to retake, rebels said.

"There were air strikes till early this morning. The rebels attacked at about 3 a.m. and Gaddafi's forces counter-attacked. They are still at the eastern gate of Ajdabiyah," said Ahmed al-Tir, a rebel fighter in Zueitina about 15 km (9 miles) away.

He and other rebels said air strikes on Ajdabiyah began late on Sunday.

"The air strikes were on the eastern gate. I saw that myself and I think there were air strikes on the western gate but I only saw smoke from that direction," he said.

[Waiting For Everyman]

47. Rebel group ambushed outside of Ajdabiya, 4 dead

@robcrilly Rob Crilly
just got to within a couple of miles of ajdabiya with rebel column before forced back by ambush. Four dead #libya
1 hour ago

Crilly is a reporter for the Telegraph on his way there to check it out. He says (through a string of tweets and replies) that the rebels are going to Adabiya intentionally to engage retreating Khamis (Gaddafi loyalists). Evidently the NFZ planes hit the Khamis from east and west sides of Adabiya last night. Should have more updates coming in a while. Another reporter going there on the same road further behind him is @alihashem, for Aljazeera. He tweeted:

@alihashem Ali Hashem
On the road from #Benghazi to Ajdabiya, a number of burnt tanks and armored vehicles for the pro-Gddafi forces #Libya
1 hour ago

[joshcryer]

38. AUDIO: Chris McGreal reports on the road from Benghazi to Ajdabiya as coalition planes fly overhead

http://audioboo.fm/boos/308173-chris-mcgreal-reports-on-the-road-from-benghazi-to-ajdabiya-as-coalition-planes-fly-overhead

[joshcryer]

40. Confusion rising over whether or not Muammar Gaddafi is being targeted by coalition forces

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live#block-12">10.15am: Confusion rising over whether or not Muammar Gaddafi is being targeted by coalition forces, as Sky news reports a senior UK military source as saying the Libyan leader is a "legitimate military target".

Yesterday vice-admiral Bill Gortney, director of the US military's joint staff, told reporters that Gaddafi was not a target.

"We are not going after Gaddafi. At this particular point I can guarantee he is not on the target list," Gortney said.

However Sky news has just tweeted: "Senior UK military source: As head of Libyan armed forces, Colonel Gaddafi is a 'legitimate military target'", which would appear to contradict Gortney's earlier assertion.

[pinboy3niner]

50. The Guardian readers respond to Liam Fox comments on targeting Gaddafi:

11.26am:

My colleague Barry Neild writes that defence secretary Liam Fox has said Gaddafi could become a direct target of coalition air strikes – apparently contradicting Pentagon officials who maintain that taking out Libyan leader is not an option.

Asked if Gaddafi might be considered a target, Fox told BBC Radio 5: "That would potentially be a possibility," provided there was no risk of civilian casualties.

"We are very careful to avoid for humanitarian reasons," he said. "Also for the propaganda reasons that it would provide for the regime itself."

There's debate in our comments section, Barry says, about the consequences of Fox's statement calling Gaddafi a legitimate target despite US insistence he is not.

riggers1 writes:

"Did anyone else hear Liam Fox Defence Secretary go 'off message' today. He said the UN was targetting Gaddafi. This statement underlines how inexperienced Liam is on the diplomatic front, as well as the legal front.

To target the Libyan leader directly is not part of the UN mandate and would therefore not be legal. Also this explicit statement drives a further wedge into a shakey alliance.

Imagine you are US defence secretary flying to Moscow to try and keep the Russians on side, and you hear that. I suspect there were a few harsh words spoken."

climatecheerleader adds:

"... I'm willing to bet Obama called Cameron to find out why Liam Fox is "off the reservation" and saying something that the Pentagon just denied... This could be a major problem especially if there are civilian casualties and if they lose the support of the Arab League ... if they happen to kill Gaddafi is better than directly going after him."

Abethdin writes:

"Liam Fox may have talked out of turn, but he's surely right; the only real solution is to remove Ghaddafi ... that is to say, to remove the cause of the war, which is their desire to hold onto the vast assets they've stolen."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[pinboy3niner]

52. Libya: Gaddafi 'not a target' says UK military chief

Posted in GD by dipsydoodle:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4780626

[joshcryer]

41. Former Evening Chronicle reporter missing in Libya (reporter for French newspaper)

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-news/2011/03/21/former-evening-chronicle-reporter-missing-in-libya-61634-28374696/">Former Evening Chronicle reporter missing in Libya
A FORMER North East journalist is missing in Libya, it emerged last night.

Dave Clark, 38, who works as a reporter for Agence France-Presse, was covering the conflict in the eastern city of Tobruk when he disappeared along with photographers Roberto Schmidt, 45, and Joe Raedle.

Mr Clark, a reporter for the Evening Chronicle in Newcastle in the late 1990s, said in an email to his senior editors on Friday evening that the group had planned to travel early on Saturday to a region around 30 kilometres from Tobruk.

Once there, he said, they would attempt to meet opponents of the regime of Muammar Gaddafi and speak to refugees fleeing the fighting.

[pinboy3niner]

49. No word on missing journos, news org "worried"

The Guardian:

10.07am:

The Agence France-Presse news agency has expressed concern over the whereabouts of one of its British correspondents in Libya.

AFP has not heard from Dave Clark, an experienced foreign correspondent, since Friday.

Denis Hiault, AFP's London bureau chief, said: "It's now been three days so we are pretty worried. We have quite a few people on the ground trying to find anything about their whereabouts. We don't know where they are, if they have been arrested or what."

Clark, a 38-year-old British reporter went missing with AFP photographer Roberto Schmidt, 45, and Getty Images photographer Joe Raedle. Clarke previously headed AFP's bureaus in Baghdad and Lagos in Nigeria.

Meanwhile, British al-Jazeera cameraman Kamel Atalua is being held by the Libyan authorities in Tripoli along with three colleagues, the news channel has said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[joshcryer]

44. India is calling for an end to the air strikes against Libya, the AFP reports

1035: India is calling for an end to the air strikes against Libya, the AFP reports.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[pinboy3niner]

45. Rebels ambushed at Ajdabiyah, 4 killed

12:11pm

Meanwhile, the violence continues inside Libya. Rob Crilly, a correspondent for the Telegraph newspaper, tweets that he was halted during an attempt to get into Ajdabiya - south of Benghazi - because rebels in front of him were caught in an ambush and four were killed. Rebels may still be trapped inside Ajdabiya by pro-Gaddafi troops, he says.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0

[pinboy3niner]

48. The Guardian and the Telegraph both have reporters at Ajdabiya (good!)

AJE is following their reports:

12:41pm

The Guardian newspaper's Chris McGreal was on the road today near Ajdabiya, around 160km south of Benghazi, where Gaddafi troops are still fighting with rebels. That appears to be the current front line. The rebels, he says, view the coalition airstrikes "as part of their campaign." That's not what the West wants to hear; they're trying to keep themselves from becoming embroiled in a full-scale regime change effort.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0

[pinboy3niner]

51. BREAKING, CNN: 4 NYT journos released, on their way home nt

[joshcryer]

53. Action in Libya could last 'awhile,' official says

http://www.statesman.com/news/nation/action-in-libya-could-last-awhile-official-says-1334249.html?page=2">Action in Libya could last 'awhile,' official says
ZEITOUNIYA, Libya — Britain also is treading carefully. Foreign Secretary William Hague refused Monday to say if Gadhafi would or could be assassinated, insisting he would not "get drawn into details about what or whom may be targeted."

"I'm not going to speculate on the targets," Hague said in a heated interview with BBC radio. "That depends on the circumstances at the time."

A military official said Air Force B-2 stealth bombers flew 25 hours in a round trip from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri and dropped 45 2,000-pound bombs.

What happens if rebel forces eventually go on the offensive against Gadhafi's troops remains unclear.

[pinboy3niner]

54. UK Defence staff chief: Gaddafi is most certainly not a military target

The Guardian reports:

12.18pm:

Our security editor, Richard Norton-Taylor, has been at a Ministry of Defence briefing in London. He tells me that the chief of defence staff appeared "very worried" about suggestions from his political masters – defence secretary Liam Fox and foreign secretary William Hague – that Gaddafi could be targeted. He insisted to reporters that Gaddafi is most certainly not a military target.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[joshcryer]

55. Glad they're backing off of that BS, could delegitimize the whole UN op.

It's bad enough that they have to weasel around about regime change (which I'm sorry, almost everyone agrees it is). When the revolutionaries start advancing on Tripoli a lot of people will be asking questions.

[pinboy3niner]

56. Allies Target Qaddafi’s Ground Forces, but Resistance Continues

Source: NYT

Allies Target Qaddafi’s Ground Forces, but Resistance Continues, Reports Say

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK, ELISABETH BUMILLER AND KAREEM FAHIM
Published: March 21, 2011


TRIPOLI, Libya — After a second night of American and European strikes by air and sea against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi‘s forces, European nations rejected on Monday Libyan claims that civilians had been killed, while pro-Qaddafi forces were reportedly still holding out against the allied campaign to break their hold on the ground while enforcing a no-fly zone.

Rebel fighters trying to retake the eastern town of Ajdabiya appeared to have fallen back to a position around 12 miles to the north on the road to Benghazi, the de facto rebel capital. At least eight rebels were killed as they tried to advance toward Ajdabiya on Monday, cut down by tank and missile fire from loyalist troops dug in on the approaches to the town. Rebel fighters showed reporters the bodies of four of them, loaded onto a pickup truck.

There were conflicting reports about whether the allies had attacked loyalist forces in the town. While planes had been heard overhead, there appeared to have been no attack on the pro-Qaddafi forces holding the entrance Ajdabiya on the coastal highway leading north to Benghazi. Ajdabiya is a strategically important town that has been much fought over, straddling an important highway junction and acting as a chokepoint for forces trying to advance in either direction.

The retreat from Ajdabiya appeared to have thrown the rebels into deep disarray, with one commander at the checkpoint trying to marshal the opposition forces, using a barely functioning megaphone, but few of the fighters heeding his exhortations.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/africa/22libya.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1

[pinboy3niner]

57. AJE: Swiss journalist reports western city of Zintan under attack

2:28pm <8:28am EDT>

Swiss journalist Gaetan Vannay has been in the western city of Zintan for the past nine days and says the eastern outskirts of the city are currently under fire and have been since yesterday.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0

[tabatha]

59. Africa: UN Action On Libya is a Welcome Relief

Editorial:

President Museveni and a team of other African leaders have flown to the Maghreb as part of an African Union effort to provide an "African solution" to the beleaguered Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi.

Yesterday, the UN declared a no-fly zone over Libya with indications that the country could be under attack from UN forces within days. But why has it taken so long for the UN, the AU, the Arab League to act on Gaddafi's excesses?

Gaddafi has been in power for more than four decades; the longest serving head of state in Africa to date. During this time, he has had his hand - sometimes invisibly - involved in bloody coups across the continent and wars of rebellion that have been a major cause of economic and political destabilisation. The US and other European countries paid no attention to these crimes partly because they did not affect their interests.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201103211038.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[tabatha]

60. Events of 2 years ago sparked current uprising in Libya

A group of families in Benghazi took to the streets two years ago, laying the foundation for the current revolt

by Jo Becker

March 11, 2011

GENEVA, Switzerland - Courageous Libyans defying the repressive Gaddafi regime took to the streets not a month ago, but more than two years ago. Risking death sentences and unnoticed by most of the world, a small group of families began holding weekly demonstrations in Benghazi, the city that has become the epicenter of the uprising now sweeping the nation.

The families' protests were part of an unprecedented campaign to seek the truth about a 1996 massacre of more than 1,200 prisoners at the Abu Salim prison in Tripoli, the Libyan capital. Notorious for torture, Abu Salim is run by the Internal Security Agency and houses many of Libya's political prisoners. The massacre followed a prison riot over poor conditions.

The day after the riot, security guards forced hundreds of prisoners into courtyards and opened fire.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x705484

[pinboy3niner]

61. Intel officials: Gaddafi 'salting' coalition strike sites with bodies from morgues

NBC Chief Pentagon Correspondent Jim Miklaszewski just reported on MSNBC that U.S. officials are citing intelligence reports that the Gaddafi regime is collecting bodies from morgues and placing them at sites of coalition strikes "all over the country" to make it appear that they are civilian casualties of allied bombing.

These reports aren't new, but this is the first time I've heard intel officials reporting it.

[pinboy3niner]

62. The Guardian reporter: "Absolutely no jet crash" at Gaddafi compound

1.10pm:

My colleague Peter Beaumont emails to say the reports that one of Gaddafi's sons is seriously ill in hospital are probably not true. Earlier we noted that some news organisations were reporting a son had been injured when a fighter jet crashed into the Bab al-Azizia compound last week – Peter says he was near to the compound at the supposed time of the incident, and says there was "absolutely no jet crash".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live


The referenced reports--all from a single source without any corroboration--said two sons were injured, and one subsequently died of his injuries after an opposition pilot crashed his jet into Gaddafi's compound last week.

[pinboy3niner]

63. Costs of Libya operation already piling up

Posted in GD by The Straight Story:

Costs of Libya operation already piling up
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x705845



Be sure to click on the link and read the full article. Lots of good information there on cost and budget aspects of the operation, both for the U.S. and for coalition partners, and the implications for policy if the Libya operation drags on.

[pinboy3niner]

64. Reports: UN Sec Council to meet on Libya at 3pm Eastern. nt

[pinboy3niner]

65. TOON twitpic sent by @Abdallah__B:

(Courtesy of AJE)

[pinboy3niner]

66. Libyan opposition National Council says eastern gate of Ajdabiya has been recaptured

AJE also reports "Burnt-out vehicles line on the road between Ajdabiya and Benghazi, Al Jazeera correspondent reports."

[pinboy3niner]

68. UK defense briefing fields questions on targeting in Libya

The Guardian:

1.46pm:

Today's briefing at the Ministry of Defence reflected the tension that exists between the commanders and officials who are planning operations against Colonel Gaddafi, and their political masters, writes our security and defence correspondent Nick Hopkins.

Almost every question asked of Major General John Lorimer, Air Vice Marshall Phil Osborn, and naval Captain Karl Evans focused on targets – and whether the Libyan leader was among them. That only became an issue thanks to Liam Fox, the defence secretary, whose opaque remarks about Gaddafi yesterday were compounded by the foreign secretary William Hague, in his interview on BBC's Today.

The discomfort at the MoD about Fox was obvious – without anyone actually having to say anything. The eyebrows said it all.

Not General Lorimer's, it has to be said. He wasn't as robust as General Sir David Richards had been, but he was clear enough when put on the spot.

"We are there in support of the UN resolution. We are there to enforce and implement the no fly zone. The targets…are command and control facilities, and elements of their integrated air defence systems, which are legitimate military targets."

QED – Gaddafi is not in their cross hairs, not at the moment anyway. For a second day, the MoD stressed the precision of their air and missile strikes. They do labour this – but understandably. They know that support for the campaign could be damaged badly by civilian casualties.

They also said that last night's aborted attack came in the latter stages of the operation, though on a flight that lasted eight hours, it's hard to know how close the pilots of the Tornado GR4 actually got to pressing the button.

Other things we didn't know?

The RAF's Typhoons are now in Italy. Belgium as apparently joined the coalition, though with what wasn't clear. The Americans remain in charge of things but obviously want out as quickly as NATO is prepared to take the lead. Which it isn't. Not yet, anyway. Sources here fear it could be many more days before Nato takes over…


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[pinboy3niner]

71. Why Russia opposes intervention in Libya

Not new--we already know that Russia has been the number one arms supplier to Libya and stands to lose billions. (I remember that when a key Russian arms executive was asked how they'd recoup the losses from Libya, he replied to the effect that maybe they'd have to look at Latin America for customers.)

Anyway, this is worth revisiting:


1.52pm:

Earlier we heard that Vladimir Putin had compared the UN resolution authorising military action in Libya to "mediaeval calls for crusades". Here's a longer quote from the Russian prime minister, courtesy of Reuters.

"The resolution is defective and flawed," Putin said. He added: "It allows everything. It resembles mediaeval calls for crusades.

Russia abstained from voting on the resolution, along with Brazil, China, Germany and India. Sky news's defence correspondent tweeted earlier:

@niallpaterson Defence intelligence contact: russia has $4 billion arms contracts with libya, another $2billion pending. Explains their position?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[pinboy3niner]

72. Libya update: Misurata, Benghazi, Tripoli

From AJE Libya Live Blog - March 21:

5:15pm <11:15am EDT>

Adel Abdelhafidh Ghoka, the Libyan National Council official, held a press briefing. He says the situation in Misurata is critical as there is no water, fuel or electricity.

Ghoka said sleeping cells in Benghazi have been given till tomorrow afternoon to hand themselves over. They will be given amnesty, if not they will face the rebels and will be treated as enemy of the revolution.

He says there is also an uprising in Tripoli but that media black out there and suppression is making things hard.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0

[pinboy3niner]

73. @Tripolitanian Yay! Gen. Honore on CNN *finally* calling #Libya opposition "freedom fighters"!!

alphaleah @ShababLibya @ChangeInLibya @Tripolitanian Yay! Gen. Honore on CNN *finally* calling #Libya opposition "freedom fighters"!!

[pinboy3niner]

74. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 6:20 PM MONDAY, MARCH 21

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours

[pinboy3niner]

75. #Gaddafi forces attacking fuel and electricity station once more in #Misrata

feb17voices AJA says: #Gaddafi forces attacking fuel and electricity station once more in #Misrata
about 2 hours ago

[pinboy3niner]

76. Translated: Eyewitness gives comprehensive update on Zintan today - #feb17 #libya

Translated: Eyewitness gives comprehensive update on Zintan today - #feb17 #libya - http://t.co/KNxQnDE
28 minutes ago

[pinboy3niner]

77. Eyewitness: We captured an officer who said his orders were to wipe Zintan off the map#

Zintan Eyewitness: We captured an officer who said his orders were to wipe Zintan off the map - #feb17 #libya - http://t.co/KNxQnDE
27 minutes ago

[pinboy3niner]

78. BREAKING: Massacre in Misratah right now! Tanks & heavy artillery fire#

BREAKING: Massacre in Misratah right now! Tanks & heavy artillery fire at demonstrating families - #feb17 #libya - http://t.co/KNxQnDE

[pinboy3niner]

79. AJE: UAE role to be limited to mumanitarian assistance--not warplanes

AJE reports the United Arab Emirates said on Monday that its involvement in Libya is limited to humanitarian assistance, after reports that it would send warplanes to patrol a UN-backed no-fly zone.

[pinboy3niner]

80. AP Exclusive: Rebels want Gadhafi ousted, not dead--15 minutes ago

AP Exclusive: Rebels want Gadhafi ousted, not dead


By JAMEY KEATEN Associated Press
Posted: 03/21/2011 09:47:39 AM PDT



PARIS—Libya's rebels want to drive Moammar Gadhafi from power and see him tried—not have him killed, a European representative for the leading opposition group said in an interview Monday.

Ali Zeidan, an envoy for the Libyan National Transitional Council, also told The Associated Press that airstrikes led by France, Britain and the United States have helped the rebels, but that the opposition needs more weapons to win.

His comments suggested that rebels were considering a peaceful exit route for Gadhafi, whose autocratic 42-year reign in Libya has been marked by bloody battles between loyalist forces and rebels in recent weeks.

"You see, Gadhafi himself, we are able to target him, and we would like to have him alive to face the international or the Libyan court for his crime," Zeidan said. "We don't like to kill anybody ... even Gadhafi himself."


http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/world/ci_17664955

[pinboy3niner]

81. Gaddafi forces open fire on unarmed crowd in Misrata - #feb17 #libya

Gaddafi forces open fire on unarmed crowd in Misrata - #feb17 #libya - http://t.co/KNxQnDE

[pinboy3niner]

82. Libya in its Arab Context

Libya in its Arab Context

Posted By Marc Lynch Monday, March 21, 2011 - 1:16 PM


President Obama's decision to join an international military intervention in Libya has met with a largely negative response in the United States across the political spectrum. Critics correctly point to a wide range of problems with the intervention: the absence of any clear planning for what comes after Qaddafi or for what might happen if there is an extended stalemate, doubts about the opposition, the White House's ignoring of Congress and limited explanations to the American public, the selectivity bias in going to war for Libya while ignoring Bahrain and Yemen, the distraction from other urgent issues. I have laid out my own reservations about the intervention here and here.

This emerging consensus misses some extremely important context, however. Libya matters to the United States not for its oil or intrinsic importance, but because it has been a key part of the rapidly evolving transformation of the Arab world. For Arab protestors and regimes alike, Gaddafi's bloody response to the emerging Libyan protest movement had become a litmus test for the future of the Arab revolution. If Gaddafi succeeded in snuffing out the challenge by force without a meaningful response from the United States, Europe and the international community then that would have been interpreted as a green light for all other leaders to employ similar tactics. The strong international response, first with the tough targeted sanctions package brokered by the United States at the United Nations and now with the military intervention, has the potential to restrain those regimes from unleashing the hounds of war and to encourage the energized citizenry of the region to redouble their efforts to bring about change. This regional context may not be enough to justify the Libya intervention, but I believe it is essential for understanding the logic and stakes of the intervention by the U.S. and its allies.

...


I continue to have many, many reservations about the military intervention, especially about the risk that it will degenerate into an extended civil war which will require troops regardless of promises made today. But as I noted on Twitter over the weekend, for all those reservations I keep remembering how I felt at the world's and America's failure in Bosnia and Rwanda. And I can't ignore the powerful place which Libya occupies in the emerging Arab transformations, and how the outcome there could shape the region's future. Failure to act would have damned Obama in the eyes of the emerging empowered Arab public, would have emboldened brutality across the region, and would have left Qaddafi in place to wreak great harm. I would have preferred a non-military response -- as, I am quite sure, the Obama administration would have preferred. But Qaddafi's military advances and the failure of the sanctions to split his regime left Obama and his allies with few choices. The intervention did not come out of nowhere. It came out of an intense international focus on the Arab transformations and a conviction that what happens now could shape the region for decades.


http://lynch.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/03/21/keeping_libya_in_context

[bobbolink]

83. VERY very important point here....

"Libya matters to the United States not for its oil or intrinsic importance, but because it has been a key part of the rapidly evolving transformation of the Arab world. For Arab protestors and regimes alike, Gaddafi's bloody response to the emerging Libyan protest movement had become a litmus test for the future of the Arab revolution."

I am done fighting with DUers who can only respond with attacks, but I wish they could look at this evenly.

" But as I noted on Twitter over the weekend, for all those reservations I keep remembering how I felt at the world's and America's failure in Bosnia and Rwanda. And I can't ignore the powerful place which Libya occupies in the emerging Arab transformations, and how the outcome there could shape the region's future."

WHY is this so hard to grasp?

Why cannot these people understand that this is an agonizing situation for all involved, including those of us who see the need for the No Fly Zone? How does that escape reasonable people?

[pinboy3niner]

84. I agree, bobbo

It's a very thoughtful and well-reasoned essay, and I thought it important to post here. I can't wait for Josh to see it, but he may want to go tilting at windmills again, lol!

:hi:

[bobbolink]

86. Would they be simiilar to the windmills I periodically twirl with?

:hi:

What I am now trying to insert into "discussions" is that the Iraqis didn't ask the UN for a no fly zone or anything else.

The Libyans did... repeatedly, for weeks.

That is a significant difference, it seems to me.

All in all, it is an agonizing decision.

[tabatha]

87. There is also another consideration

which may have been missed.

In yet another bizarre outburst, embattled Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi is claiming that Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda are behind the uprisings across Libya, an absurd assertion given the breadth of the popular demonstrations and the protesters' demand for political freedoms.

But U.S. and international counterterrorism officials aren't laughing. Al-Qaeda already has a foothold in Libya --albeit a small one -- along with another armed radical Islamist organization. And the growing chaos across Libya could be the perfect medium to trigger an explosive growth of Islamist extremism, some terrorism experts say.

That's a prime factor in the Obama administration's deepening concern that at least parts of Libya could collapse into ungoverned spaces, joining Somalia and Yemen as places where al-Qaeda and its franchises are active and growing, threatening not just surrounding countries but capable of mounting attacks inside the United States as well.


http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/24/in-libyas-chaos-an-opening-for-al-qaeda/

[bobbolink]

88. While that might be a consideration, I hesitate to bring that up, as it echos exactly the Faux crap.

sigh..... I just wish Ghaddofus would disappear....

Thank you for the input... its just all too complex, and meanwhile I am doing battle with people who insist that this has a directly correlation to poverty and homelessnes. :grr:

[tabatha]

89. But apparently it was brought up somewhere here too

in an alarmist fashion that 50% of the protesters were Al Qeada, although I did not see the post.

But what it does illustrate is, that it is a complex situation, with many factors.

Unfortunately, G is stubborn, mad and homicidal - it is a hellish situation for all concerned.

I think he is more insane than Hitler, who at least knew when to take his life.

[pinboy3niner]

85. Gaddafi officials secretly asking news agencies to stop giving footage to Al Jazeera

Video here:

http://feb17.info/media/gaddafi-officials-secretly-asking-news-agencies-to-stop-giving-footage-to-al-jazeera/

[pinboy3niner]

90. BREAKING: Loud explosion and AA fire heard in Tripoli

CNN, AJE continuing to report on it.

AJE Live Stream here:

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[pinboy3niner]

95. Missile strikes and AA fire in Tripoli began at 9pm (3pm EDT)

AJE:

9:38pm

Loud explosions and barrages of anti-aircraft fire were heard near the Tripoli compound of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi on Monday night, an AFP correspondent said.

The volleys erupted at around 1900GMT near the Bab el-Aziziya barracks in the south of Tripoli, the correspondent said.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0


It looks like it was the "barrages of anti-aircraft fire" that were heard near Gaddafi's compound. Where the "loud explosions" (coalition missile strikes) occurred has not been determined.

[pinboy3niner]

91. Misrata: Rebels say 40 killed, 300 wounded today by regime gunfire

8:07pm:

Rebels in Misrata say that in addition to the 40 killed, 300 people were wounded today by regime gunfire, AFP reports


http://feb17.info/general/live-libyan-unrest-revolutionaries-aim-is-to-capture-tripoli-without-foreign-offensive-action/

[pinboy3niner]

92. Gen Carter Ham: No-fly zone expansion to 1000 km is underway

7:20pm

The UN-approved no-fly zone over Libya is expanding and will soon cover a 1,000-km area as aircraft from additional coalition countries arrive in the region, the head of US Africa Command said on Monday.

Carter Ham, the US Army General, told a Pentagon briefing that coalition air forces were continuing to fly missions to sustain the no-fly zone and that Libyan ground forces were moving south from rebel-held areas.


6:59pm

No mission to support Libyan opposition ground offensive, says US general.

The US military knows little about the whereabouts of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi after waves of air and missile strikes in the country, a top US general said on Monday.

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/live/africa/libya-live-blog-march-21-0


I heard Gen Ham say also that the U.S. military has not expended any effort to determine Gaddafi's location. He called the new NFZ being established "a pretty wide area," but noted that Canadian and Belgian aircraft are starting operations today.

While expansion of the NFZ is underway, Gen. Ham said, the ability to conduct operations targeting ground forces "is somewhat limited."

The larger NFZ will extend to Brega and Misurata, and then to Tripoli, he said.

[pinboy3niner]

93. Al Jazeera journalists missing in Libya must be released--Amnesty International

Al Jazeera journalists missing in Libya must be released


21 March 2011



Amnesty International has called on the Libyan authorities to release four Al Jazeera journalists held incommunicado since they were detained while trying to leave the country two weeks ago.

The two correspondents and two cameramen were arrested in Zantan, near the Tunisian border, and could be at risk of torture.

An Al Jazeera cameraman, Hassan Al Jaber, was killed in an ambush in Libya last week.

"This is the latest disturbing example of a campaign of attacks and harassment against journalists trying to do their job of covering the conflict in Libya," said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International's Middle East and North African director.

"The Libyan authorities in Tripoli must reveal the whereabouts of these journalists, protect them from torture and release them immediately."

The missing correspondents are Ahmad Val Wald-Eddin from Mauritania and a Tunisian, Lutfi Al-Massoudi - both 34 years old.

Norwegian cameraman Ammar Al-Hamdan, 34, has also been detained along with Ammar Al-Tallou from Britain.

It is thought that Lutfi Al-Massoudi may be held in Tripoli, after a CNN correspondent posted on Twitter that one of his colleagues had been detained with a Tunisian correspondent in the capital.

Many journalists have been targeted during the unrest in Libya.

Three BBC journalists were tortured and subjected to mock executions while being detrained by Colonel Gaddafi's forces two weeks ago.

Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, a journalist for the UK's Guardian newspaper, was held by the authorities for a fortnight and held in solitary confinement before being freed last week.

The Libyan authorities today released four journalists from the New York Times newspaper, six days after their arrest.

"Abuses against journalists seeking to report the facts are totally unacceptable and point to a deliberate effort to prevent the truth emerging through the fog of war," said Malcolm Smart.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/al-jazeera-journalists-missing-libya-must-be-released-2011-03-21

[pinboy3niner]

94. The Guardian's summary of events today:

• The Commons debate on the situation in Libya is ongoing. David Cameron told MPs coalition forces have largely neutralised Libyan air defences. He said action had come "in the nick of time". Cameron said that Britain thought Libya would be better off without Colonel Gaddafi, but that it was only intervening militarily to enforce the UN resolution and that the Libyans would have to decide Gaddafi's fate. Andrew Sparrow's full coverage of the debate continues here.


• The question of action to target Gaddafi remains a main focus of discussion. Downing Street has briefed that while removing the Libyan leaders is not an aim of the UN resolution, were it to be necessary to do so in order to fulfil the resolution's aim of protecting civilians, it would be legal. That briefing came after Cameron in the Commons played down targeting Gaddafi, the US Army's General Carter Ham said attacking the Libyan leader was not part of his mission and Britain's General Sir David Richards, said Gaddafi was "absolutely not" a target and "it is not allowed under the UN resolution".


• Details of overnight operations have been revealed. The military coalition imposing the no-fly zone flew 70 to 80 sorties and fired 10 to 12 missiles. An RAF Tornado bombing run over Libya was aborted as civilians and journalists were identified within the target area - specifically a CNN journalist reporting live at the time.


• Vladimir Putin has compared the UN resolution authorising military action in Libya to "medieval calls for crusades". The Russian prime minister said: "The resolution is defective and flawed" ... "It allows everything." Russia abstained from voting on the resolution.


• Four New York Times journalists being held in Libya have been freed. The paper said the Libyan authorities had released Anthony Shadid, Tyler Hicks, Lynsey Addario and Stephen Farrell. They have now left the country. Four al-Jazeera journalists, including a Briton, are still being held.


• The latest air strikes on Libya have destroyed a building in the Tripoli compound of Muammar Gaddafi. Our correspondent in Tripoli, Ian Black, saw smoke rising from the area of Bab al-Aziziya, where Gaddafi is based.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/21/libya-gaddafi-air-strikes-live

[pinboy3niner]

96. Anti-Aircraft Fire Erupts Over Tripoli as More Nations Enforce No-Fly Zone

Anti-Aircraft Fire Erupts Over Tripoli as More Nations Enforce No-Fly Zone


VOA News March 21, 2011


Anti-aircraft fire has erupted over the Libyan capital, Tripoli, with at least one explosion shaking the city as more Western nations joined a coalition enforcing a U.N.-authorized no-fly zone over Libya.

The anti-aircraft fire and explosion were heard in Tripoli after nightfall Monday. Earlier, the head of the U.S. military's Africa command said coalition warplanes carried out more patrols in Libyan airspace during the day, with seven nations participating in the mission alongside the United States.

Speaking from his headquarters in Germany, General Carter Ham said the other nations include Belgium, Britain, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy and Spain. He said the focus of the mission, which began Saturday, has now shifted to extending the no-fly zone from eastern Libya to cover Tripoli in the west.

General Ham said U.S. and British forces also fired 12 Tomahawk missiles in the previous 24 hours at Libyan military targets, including command and control, missile and air defense sites. Both nations had fired more than 100 cruise missiles at Libyan military facilities on Saturday.


http://www.voanews.com/english/news/-Coalition-Fires-More-Missiles-at-Libyan-Targets-118375309.html

[pinboy3niner]

97. U.S. official: Gadhafi's momentum stopped

Source: CNN


U.S. official: Gadhafi's momentum stopped


By the CNN Wire StaffMarch 21, 2011 -- Updated 2025 GMT (0425 HKT)



Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's momentum has stopped and rebels have been able to hold onto areas that government forces had been poised to capture just a few days ago, a U.S. official said Monday.

The regime's efforts appeared to have "stalled" as Gadhafi has declared a cease-fire, the official said.

...


An opposition spokesman said he already knew the answer, at least as it pertains to Misrata, a key city about two hours east of Tripoli. "There is no cease-fire in Misrata," said Mohamed, who would not divulge his last name out of concern for his safety. "The destruction is unimaginable."

...


A press and information coordinator for rebels in Benghazi said rebel leaders do not want coalition forces to target Gadhafi. That, said Mohammed Fannoush, is the job of the opposition. He added that the opposition has compiled a list of names of Gadhafi loyalists and has imprisoned 150 of them in Benghazi to eventually stand trial. Some of them, he said, had carried out attacks against their fellow Benghazis or were planning to carry out such attacks.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/21/libya.civil.war/index.html

[pinboy3niner]

98. Libya Releases 4 Times Journalists (with details of capture)

Source: NYT

Libya Releases 4 Times Journalists


By JEREMY W. PETERS


Published: March 21, 2011


The Libyan government released four New York Times journalists on Monday, six days after they were captured while covering the conflict between government and rebel forces in the eastern city of Ajdabiya. They were released into the custody of Turkish diplomats and crossed safely into Tunisia in the late afternoon.

Like many Western journalists, the four had entered the rebel-controlled eastern region of Libya over the Egyptian border without visas to cover the insurrection against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. They were detained by forces loyal to Colonel Qaddafi in Ajdabiya.

The journalists are Anthony Shadid, The Times’s Beirut bureau chief, who has won two Pulitzer Prizes for international reporting; two photographers, Tyler Hicks and Lynsey Addario, who have extensive experience in war zones; and a reporter and videographer, Stephen Farrell, who in 2009 was captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan and was rescued by British commandos.

...


On Tuesday, the journalists were leaving the front lines of the clashes between pro-Qaddafi forces and rebels in and around Ajdabiya. As they attempted to drive east toward the relative safety of the rebel capital of Benghazi, they approached a new checkpoint. It belonged to a group of Qaddafi fighters who detained them. The Qaddafi forces then suddenly came under fire from rebels, and a gunfight ensued. When the fight let up, the journalists’ captors drove them along a coastal road until they reached the Qaddafi stronghold of Surt. From there, they were flown in a military aircraft to Tripoli.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/world/africa/22times.html?_r=2&ref=global-home

[pinboy3niner]

99. BBC’s Ian Pannell...says that he came under attack from tanks belonging to #Gaddafi

BBC’s Ian Pannell, near Benghazi, says that he came under attack from tanks belonging to #Gaddafi http://t.co/9T4eR9b #Libya

[pinboy3niner]

100. naval base near #Tripoli has been hit by coalition forces.http://t.co/9T4eR9b #Libya

Eyewitnesses quoted by Agence France Presse say that a naval base near #Tripoli has been hit by coalition forces.http://t.co/9T4eR9b #Libya
6 minutes ago

[pinboy3niner]

103. AJE's Anita McNaught in Tripoli saw flames rising from what she was told was a naval base nt

[pinboy3niner]

101. “They even shot three ambulances – two of the drivers were killed”

“They even shot three ambulances – two of the drivers were killed”

11:35PM: <5:35PM EDT>

BBC news reports that a a spokesman for rebels in Misrata has described the situation as “a catastrophe”.

“We’ve had more than 40 dead, more than 200 injured here today because when Gaddafi stopped the military actions, the people went out on to the street to demonstrate and the military started shooting at them with heavy weapons,” he said.

“They even shot three ambulances – two of the drivers were killed.”

http://feb17.info/general/live-libyan-unrest-revolutionaries-aim-is-to-capture-tripoli-without-foreign-offensive-action/

[pinboy3niner]

102. CURRENT TIME IN LIBYA = 11:50 PM MONDAY, MARCH 21

Libya time = EDT +6 hours, PDT +9 hours, GMT +2 hours

[joshcryer]

104. Day 33 here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x709976