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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 02:35 PM
Original message
"New tax deal is threatening the livelihood of America's present and future seniors"
Those are the words in an op ed in the Palm Beach Post yesterday. The op ed is by Robert Weiner, a former chief of staff of the U.S. House Select Committee on Aging and Jonathan Battaglia, a policy analyst at Robert Weiner Associates.

Commentary: Social Security's future at risk with new tax deal

Under the radar screen, the new tax deal is threatening the livelihood of America's present and future seniors - to line the pockets of millionaires. If made permanent, a new Social Security "payroll tax holiday," reducing the "match" employers pay from 6 percent to 4 percent of salary, will drop the solvency of the program 14 years, from 2037 to 2023, according to the Congressional Budget Office. At the same time, Congress agreed to increase high-end loopholes in the estate tax, exempting 39,000 estates worth as much as $5 million.

This bill puts in motion two devastating policies: lowering taxes for the rich and destabilizing the financing of Social Security. Without sufficient worker and employer matching money, which has kept Social Security solvent for 75 years and helped millions of Americans live out their senior years in comfort, the program could be doomed. Congress and the White House say they want to "protect Social Security's solvency," but this action does just the opposite.

The most dangerous aspect of the payroll tax holiday is that it could become permanent. The new philosophy in Congress seems to be "once a cut, always a cut." When the payroll tax holiday expires in a year, Republicans will insist on keeping it, just as they did with the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.


This paragraph is devastating because our Democrats are going along with what the Republicans intended all along, and Dan Bartlett even put it into words.

Democrats are falling for the same trap they did nine years ago when they helped pass the Bush tax cuts. Bush communications director Dan Bartlett explained how they used "temporary" cuts to get votes: "We knew that, politically, once you get it into law, it becomes almost impossible to remove it."


They knew exactly what they were doing, and we apparently do not.

Paul Krugman's comments earlier this month were also true and to the point. It's a matter of class.

Class and Social Security


The proximate cause is that cutting Social Security is one of those things you’re for if you’re a Very Serious Person. Way back, I wrote that inside the Beltway calling for Social Security cuts is viewed as a “badge of seriousness”
, which has nothing to do with the program’s real importance or lack thereof to the budget picture; that column elicited a more or less hysterical reaction, which sort of proved the point....

But why Social Security? There was a telling moment in 2004, during one of the presidential campaign debates. Tim Russert, the moderator, asked eight or nine questions about Social Security, trying to put the candidates on the spot, while asking not once about Medicare, which serious people – as opposed to Serious People – know is the real heart of the story. Why the focus on Social Security?

The answer, I suspect, has to do with class.


The goal of the centrist think tanks has been to make the Democratic party less reliant on its "traditional constituents"....that means those who are not rich.

Changing Democratic policies

Al From interview

"One of the important things we had to do in 1992 was remove the obstacles that kept people from voting Democratic in the first place," he said.

That included addressing issues of welfare, fiscal discipline and crime. "As long as people thought we were going to take money from people who worked and give it to people who didn't work, they didn't want to listen to anything else," he added.


And I'll bet Simon Rosenberg would love to take back these words he spoke long ago about why they formed their think tank.

Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."


And the words of Robert Dreyfuss from 2001:

Today's is not your father's Democratic Party. Though the dwindling chorus of party progressives provides counterpoint, today's Democrats are proud to claim the mantle of budgetary moderation. They oppose President Bush's $2-trillion tax-cut plan not by arguing mainly for more spending on health, education, and welfare, but because it risks the new sacred cause of paying off the national debt. They are the party of increased military spending, the death penalty, the war on drugs, and partnership with religious faith. They are the party of Ending Welfare As We Know It, the party of The Era of Big Government Is Over.


They have started touching Social Security, our own party leaders did that.

And we should not be expected to be silent.

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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. There are no Party principles; there is only principal.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. And they are not responding to this issue. Simply no mention of it.
They just are doing it....putting SS on the table.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. The DemoRepublicrats made it quite clear as they wrote out the details
Of the Health Care Reform Act how little they care about older people.

Nothing in that bill helps any older person who is not some sort of Gold Spoon carrying, Platinum Country Club-Belonging Style of Executive.

It made it impossible for most older people to continue to have good health care.

Premiums, co-pays and deductibles were allowed to sky rocket to the point that people are still choosing between paying for their insurance and eating.



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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. They want all of us oldsters to die. They will and the debt of
each death is a burden on their immortal souls. You don't have to believe in heaven or hell to understand that what we do to each other is a debt or a payment we make against our souls. These people will never live enough lives to pay it all back. that is my solace.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. kr
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Anything and everything to enrich the elite
and the hell with the poor and working class.

Change and Hope, my ass.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. That's how it feels at times.
Discouraging.
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Change and hope.....for the rich. nt
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. And, no deduction for property tax if you don't itemize. Affects retirees a lot..
If a retiree owns their own home and has few deductions, they can no longer deduct the property taxes they pay unless they itemize (and that might not be to their benefit).
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Dems didn't fall into
any trap (as Dan Bartlett thinks), they knowingly and willingly went with the repugnants.

They're not that stupid....they may want you to think that, but they're not. We all know who butters their fucking bread.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. 'Tis true, 'tis true, they are thoroughly nauseating.
Edited on Thu Dec-23-10 04:07 PM by anamandujano
Thanks for the hard work putting together this thread Madfloridian.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. yes....thx
Madfloridian.

Sometimes the world appears as if I'm on LSD....except LSD would 'normalize' me today as opposed to the '60's and '70's.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2010/12/my-files-on-lbj-and-cia-assassination.html

I just read this....has nothing to do with topic except WASF and have been for a long time.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kicking...reccing and bookmarking
because there are STILL people on DU who deny these cuts will even AFFECT Soc. Security!!!!

ty for posting!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, there are still people who deny it.
:hi:
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I wonder how comforting they'll find Obama in retirement.
Edited on Thu Dec-23-10 09:09 PM by WorseBeforeBetter
Providing they're ever able to retire. Obama and his Republican pals, on the other hand, will retire quite comfortably.
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right2bfree Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Paid into it for 30 years and what do we get? nt
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. not stilled either!
K & R!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Some of them see SS as the biggest Pile of money
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. And education a close second.
Lots of profit there. They are going for the jugular now with Arne as DOE head.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-10 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. K & R
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. While I'm sitting here watching this dog and pony show praise on corp news!
this crap is sick.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. The major media has become a dog and pony show.
With only a few exceptions.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
22. k&r
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
23. The writing was on the wall the moment 0 took office
He is a disciple of the simpleton Milton Friedman. The weak should just die.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. hmm...
One has to wonder if Obama has read Klein's "Shock Doctrine." Surely, he has seen how damaging is Uncle Miltie's sociopathic economic model. The history of the Southern Cone alone is proof positive that Friedman's ideas are crap.
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remember2000forever Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Nahhh...This Mornings News...Obama is reading
Biography of Ronald Reagan!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
24. Wall Street robbed those of us 50 and over of millions
in 2008 and this is just a continuation of this assault on baby-boomers and the war babies.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. Make that trillions and you would be much closer to the truth. Kr nt
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. K/R. Only one thing I disagree with,
"Democrats are falling for the same trap they did nine years ago when they helped pass the Bush tax cuts. Bush communications director Dan Bartlett explained how they used "temporary" cuts to get votes: "We knew that, politically, once you get it into law, it becomes almost impossible to remove it."

The bastards fucking didn't fall into a trap. They knew, and they jumped right in.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
28. Another Home Run, Mad!
K&R

:patriot:
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sirthomas66 Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
29. Silent? I don't know why, when it is so simple to contact Bernie Sanders...
What else do you want? The Sons of Liberty would look at us and collectively vomit.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
30. Sad K&R. That's one of the things that makes all the celebratory talk so disconcerting.
We're supposed to be glad this was the most productive lame duck session in decades, and yet, many of
the things we got done were achieved by bargaining away features that the disgusting modern Republicans didn't like --

-- extending unemployment insurance by giving the new crueler Republicans the extension of the budget-busting Bush tax cuts for the richest among us

-- getting help for 9/11 first responders after stripping out the feature that paid for it with elimination of a tax loophole for the super rich

-- getting a stimulative program of more cash for the middle and lower classes by cutting the social security taxes which Democrats were talked into raising in the first place in order to strengthen social security's solvency in preparation for the Boomers' retirement the last time we were in power!

My Democratic party let this whole series of budget busting compromises with the Republican Party get rolling because they pretended they could all be bipartisan with the modern Republicans even though we all knew their main goal was to destroy the Democratic presidency from the beginning. We knew these were not traditional Republicans.

Had my Democratic majorities allowed the president to do his bipartisan talk, while remaining true to Democratic ideals themselves, things might have been different.

Wish my party had planned a better strategy in advance. To allow the president to speak of bipartisanship while having our legislators insist on the truth-- Mr. President, the Republicans USED TO be in favor of fiscal responsibility, so we will not give up the public option because it is the best way to control medical costs for our long term economic health. Republicans USED TO be in favor of fiscal responsibility so we will be bipartisan with those traditions and insist that the Bush tax cuts for the already wealthy top 2% expire on schedule, while extending the tax cuts for those that spend their money right away because we all know that will stimulate local economies nationwide. Mr. President, Republicans USED TO recognize the importance of cleaning up our environment for future generations, so we will be bipartisan with those traditions and insist on a 25% reduction in our carbon emissions by 2020, putting green engineering into the repairing of our infrastructure which the strange modern Republicans allowed to decay in order to finance their false wars and giant tax cuts.

What we saw in 2008 was the crashing and burning of Supply Side Economics, "voluntary, self-regulation" and over-privatization. But my Democrats were not willing to step forward and acknowledge that and stand up for Democratic Demand-Side Economics and strengthening government oversight, even though millions of voters had crossed party lines because they knew it was time to do that. Unfortunately, however, too many Democratic legislators had been corrupted by the generous campaign contributions of supporters of the failed supply side dogma and intimidated by the formidable power of our deregulated mass media ownership, now consolidated into conservative hands-- right and hard right. Then came Citizens United, pretending multinational corporations deserved the free speech rights of individual citizens, pushed by right wing judicial activists my Democrats didn't have the fortitude to defeat for appointment to our Supreme Court.

So this is the point where I usually delete my commentary and just say "Sad K&R. //nt" because I am so depressed by the power we have given to failed right wing economics.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
31. "They knew exactly what they were doing, "...
..."and we apparently do not."

If by "we" you mean our Democratic so-called leaders, then I must beg to differ. They, too, know exactly what they are doing, and they are fine with it.

There is NO WAY they do not understand that tax cuts are unlikely to be reinstated. There is NO WAY they do not understand that cutting Social Security's separate funding stream weakens Social Security. There is NO WAY they do not understand that tax cuts for the wealthy do not create jobs. To believe that you would have to believe they do not read newspapers or watch news shows or read political blogs and discussion boards, just like interested citizens do. Or you would have to believe they are hapless nitwits.

They know as well as their Republican counterparts that the Social Security money they borrowed was pissed away in endless wars, and now, just like their Republican counterparts, they want to avoid paying it back. Because the only way it gets paid back is if the wealthy do a little belt tightening and start paying their fair share again. Nope, can't have that. Better if the poor die in the streets than the wealthy have one less yacht, one less designer dress to flaunt.

They have sold out, that is the long and the short of it. They do not work for us -- and the very few who do work for us are marginalized and ousted. We are *not* their constituents. Their constituents are the fat cats who contribute to their campaigns. Our system is one of vast legalized bribery, and most of us can't play and are not wanted except for the occasional vote.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. Whoa, I'm confused. Was the employer's part cut or the employee's part? n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. It's the employee part. I think it was a one letter error in the article.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. Los Angeles Times has very critical article about these cuts.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/14/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20101214

"But even assuming you want to deliver a break to the workers for whom the payroll tax is the biggest item in their federal tax, what's not debatable is that this is the wrong way to do it. Why? Because it skips over millions of Americans, including some of the poorest laborers. And it potentially undermines Social Security.

"It's basically blowing a hole in the system," Nancy J. Altman, co-director of Social Security Works, a nonprofit advocacy group, told me.

On the positive side, it exposes all the talk we were hearing from the deficit commission only a month ago about the desperate need to fix Social Security now as so much deplorable balderdash. Some of us knew that anyway, but it never hurts to have another data point.

Here's the good news: While public support for the overall tax package is 69%, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll released Monday, 57% of the respondents opposed the payroll tax cuts. The overall support cut across all political colorations, but so did the opposition to the payroll tax cut. It looks like the public may have gotten the message that tampering with Social Security, which serves millions of Americans flawlessly, is a dumb idea."
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
36. Here is Krugman on the economy
Video: Krugman on the economy and Republicans

He mentions that the tax cuts.

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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
37. Sure, "if made permanent" with no other changes. Lot's of "ifs" there.

Pretty easy to conjure up all kinds of bad things that could happen. Don't really think it will happen with Democrats in control, but I guess I should make myself sick worrying about it -- which will inadvertently help the ReThugs.

How about a good thing -- like increase the SS cap.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. K&R
We all need to be reading this...
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
Thank you for posting this.
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