I believe in signs.

[kentuck]

I believe this total lunar eclipse is a sign. To interpret the sign is for someone more intelligent than I.

I do believe it is transforming, although at what rate we do not know or comprehend.

[TriMera]

1. I think you're right. n/t

[jobycom]

2. It is a sign that science and mathematics can accurately predict celestial movements.

Which counters the Republicans who right now think a dragon is eating the moon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Damn and I thought we needed to get

the human sacrifice ready for Kukulkan!

Now all joking aside, no matter how good we have become people still believe it is a sign.

[jobycom]

9. And that worries me. nt

[kentuck]

10. Do you believe in gravity?

Does the Moon affect the tides on Earth? Is the Moon the only planet that can affect Earth by gravitational pull? Is Jupiter or Saturn too far away to affect us? Are human bodies largely made of water, much like the Earth itself? I think there are planets that affect our subconscious, also. Just what I believe...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. Only if it believes in me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. I believe in the inverse square law of gravity

which means that Jupiter etc., being much farther away than the Moon, have a far smaller gravitational effect. Also, tides are because the water on one side of the earth is closer to the Moon than that on the other, which means it's that side is affected more by gravity.

The ratio of the Moon's distance to the Earth's diameter is about 380,000km:12,800km. The ratio of Jupiter's distance, even at its closest, to the earth's diameter is about 630,000,000km:12,800km. Jupiter has a mass about 25,700 times the Moon.

So, Jupiter's gravitational effect on something on the earth is about 25,700*(380,000*380,000)/(630,000,000*630,000,000) = 0.01 times that of the moon.

And a tidal effect falls off as the inverse cube of distance - so tidal effects from Jupiter are even smaller.

Maximum Tidal Forces of the Sun, Moon, and Planets on the Earth Solar System 
 Object	 Tidal Force
 Moon	 2.1
 Sun	 1.00
 Venus	 0.000113
 Jupiter 0.0000131
 Mars	 0.0000023
 Mercury 0.0000007
 Saturn	 0.0000005
 Uranus	 0.000000001
 Neptune 0.000000002
 Pluto	 0.0000000000001

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2000/ast04may_1m/

And, of course, a lunar eclipse is nothing special in terms of gravity. It's just the sun and the moon on opposite sides on the earth, which happens every full moon. At a lunar eclipse, they are precisely lined up so that the Moon goes through the Earth's shadow; but why it that significant for gravity?

[kentuck]

67. "but why it that significant for gravity?"

I don't know but an interesting question.

[muriel_volestrangler]

68. You're the one who thought it was

Maybe you should explain.

[kentuck]

69. I'm not sure I believe your numbers?

I believe in gravity.

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. Do you believe NASA's numbers?

Which precise part of my numbers don't you believe? What are your numbers? You haven't even shown them to us yet.

[ProfessorGAC]

101. Come On Kentuck

You're being willfully obtuse. And you know darn well the numbers can be looked up by anybody on the internet.
GAC

[FloriTexan]

92. That explanation ...

explains part of astrology - you also have to have a good astrology to understand and interpet aspects and alignments. I have found it to be very accurate when your birth times and other data are accurate.

[eShirl]

43. I know that name because of the Star Trek cartoon series...

:rofl: <--- at myself

[Caliman73]

95. It is the name of the Mayan's major deity

The Mexica named him Quetzalcoatl

[kentuck]

And can tell us that it last happened 456 years ago.

When Lady Jane Grey was being beheaded and young Queen Elizabeth I (First) was being imprisoned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Yes, we can do that

Keppler's Stellar Mechanics

http://muse.tau.ac.il/museum/galileo/johannes_kepler.html

You can literally run the equations both backwards and forwards.

As to when this happened 456 years ago, it WAS recorded as it was seen as a sign. All eclipses were recorded as a matter of fact where they were seen.

[notesdev]

3. If you squint and look very closely you can read it

it says "Albequerque, 153 mi."

[abq e streeter]

5. Cool---I may have to stay up for that.......(and Hi to DU from Albuquerque)

[DavidDvorkin]

6. It's a sign that the earth is passing between the sun and the moon

Why would it signify anything else?

[kentuck]

7. Why would it not?

It is not as common as you suggest.

[DavidDvorkin]

11. Er, no

If you assert something so odd, you need to back it up. There's no burden of proof on me.

[kentuck]

13. Nobody disagrees that the earth is passing between the moon and sun...

That is obvious. I believe it is a sign. "Believe" being the operational word. Related to something other than "facts". It is easy to say it is nothing more. If that is what you wish to believe or perceive, that is your choice.

[DavidDvorkin]

18. The eclipse is rarer than the sun rising but no more mysterious

You might as well believe that the daily rising and setting of the sun is a sign of something extraordinary coming. Or the daily tides. Or the wind. Or a comet. Or a shooting star. Or a nova. Or the phases of the moon.

If you believe that the eclipse is a sign, then you should believe that everything in the natural world is a sign. That mindless natural processes and Newtonian mechanics have mystical significance. That's a devolution into meaningless babble.

[kentuck]

24. If you say so...

It means absolutely nothing if we cannot put it into a scientific formula. Otherwise, it is just babble. Because science is God.

[DavidDvorkin]

25. No, science is real.

[kentuck]

27. Yes, science is real.

We do not dispute that. But it cannot explain everything. Much is not known.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Who is the "we" that is making these authoritative-sounding axiomatic edicts?

Science cannot explain everything? Says who?

It sure as shit can explain this lunar eclipse.

[kentuck]

57. "authoritative-sounding axiomatic edicts?"

Gee, thanks!

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world that believes in signs?

[Warren DeMontague]

82. Yes. "Science cannot explain everything" is an essentially meaningless, yet authoritative sounding

axiomatic edict.

What, exactly, can't science explain?

[sufrommich]

108. It can't explain why some people still believe in signs from

mysterious unseen forces in the 21st century.

[beam me up scottie]

109. I used to think education was a vaccine for superstition and ignorance.

Glad Carl Sagan isn't around to see this...

[sufrommich]

111. Actually, he did a pretty good job of explaining the problem in

The Demon Haunted World, not sure the OP would like the explanation though.;)

[kentuck]

112. Perhaps he would...?

..like to hear the explanation? We should always be open to knowledge. I understand that. But I am a very skeptical person, even skeptical of some scientific explanations. I have a difficult time accepting 100% certainty on just about any subject or theory.

[sufrommich]

120. Here's the gist of what the book is about:

"Science is a way to call the bluff of those who only pretend to knowledge. It is a bulwark against mysticism, against superstition, against religion misapplied to where it has no business being. If we're true to its values, it can tell us when we're being lied to. "


It's easy enough to get a copy at the library and it's enjoyable reading.

[beam me up scottie]

124. "Credulity kills."

Carl Sagan spent his life advocating critical thought over superstition.

If you really want to know why, you should pick up a copy of "The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in the Dark", I highly recommend it.

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true.

Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.

I worry that, especially as the Millennium edges nearer, pseudoscience and superstition will seem year by year more tempting, the siren song of unreason more sonorous and attractive. Where have we heard it before? Whenever our ethnic or national prejudices are aroused, in times of scarcity, during challenges to national self-esteem or nerve, when we agonize about our diminished cosmic place and purpose, or when fanaticism is bubbling up around us-then, habits of thought familiar from ages past reach for the controls.

The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir.

~Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Check out my sig line for one more:

[beam me up scottie]

126. My bible.

Such a great man, still sorely missed.

[eShirl]

47. "But it cannot explain everything." However, it DOES explain & accurately predict lunar eclipses.

[superduperfarleft]

91. .

[demwing]

55. I actually do believe that that the daily rising and setting of the sun is a sign

of something extraordinary coming.

Every day I believe that, and everyday I'm proven correct.

[SkyDaddy7]

49. Would you consider a thunderstorm to be a "sign" as well?

If so, then you must be overwhelmed with "signs"...If not, the why not? ...A lunar eclipse is no more less natural that a thunderstorm...Regardless of which day it happens on.

[snooper2]

64. it's happening all the time across the universe

100's of billions of stars with orbiting planets and planets with one or many moons...

Not really that big of a deal when thinking on a larger scale. We are insignificant...Just a blink in the cosmos FYI

[msongs]

12. first solstice eclipse in about 2000 years nt

[uppityperson]

14. 372 yrs, or 456 (funny link)

372 yrs
http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Solstice+eclipse+first+years/3983582/story.html

This one says 456 but links back to montrealgazette for its story. But still, not 2000 yrs
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/solstice-eclipse-first-in_n_798661.html

[Statistical]

106. In the age of our solar system it is very common.

It we estimate this occurs roughly twice per millennium and the Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old this "very special" and "very rare" event has happened roughly 9,100,000 times.

[Octafish]

15. Perhaps it means a ''New Beginning'' for the world?

It's the end of the year -- the days are getting longer for the beginning of a new one.



The eclipse may be especially symbolic for the New World, seeing how it's visible only on this hemisphere, and almost overhead for the peoples of South and North America.

The ancients developed an understanding of symbolism and science. Thank you for helping others develop them, as well, kentuck.

[Lucinda]

16. Yep.

:hi:

[ZombieHorde]

17. I think I know what the sign is...

[kentuck]

19. Surely there must be a place in the universe for humor?

:-)

[Warren DeMontague]

40. I've looked

that place is definitely NOT in Church.

[mkultra]

75. or funerals

[Duer 157099]

20. As I went outside, with bare feet on the freezing cold pavement,

and was gazing up at the just-disappeared moon, I thought: wouldn't it be neat if there was some sort of thing that was beamed down and received just by those retinas that actually went outside and gazed up?

Who knows, it could be.

I tried to get my dog to look at it, but you know how hard it is to get a dog to look at the moon that isn't there? Really hard.

[kentuck]

21. It could be..

Who knows?

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Yes, Verily it is a sign.

A sign that we live on a revolving, rotating sphere that orbits a much larger sphere of thermonuclear fusing hydrogen, and is that is itself orbited by a smaller sphere. And sometimes, at times precisely predicted by the laws of celestial mechanics, the shadow cast by our sphere that blocks the light from the big, bright sphere passes across the smaller sphere.

And you get a lunar eclipse.

[kentuck]

23. I believe it symbolizes darkness and light...

Also, it symbolizes truth and falsehoods.

The light will prevail.

That is my interpretation.

[snagglepuss]

34. Some want to drain such events of their mystery, it's their loss. Seeing this as

a sign is acknowledging that the universe is an utter mystery despite science. Regarding this as a sign is to operate on the aesthetic level as opposed to the scientific level and that is nothing to sneer at -


"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."


Albert Einstein

[dmallind]

37. There IS no mystery

And regarding this as a "sign" is nothing to do with an "aesthetic level" somehow separate from a "scientific level", it is simply reverting back to an ignorant stage of human development that extrapolated mythology from basic but misunderstood (or not understood) phenomena, rather than seeking to increase knowledge. Who or what is making the "sign"? To whom is the "sign" directed? And above all why does this sign keep getting made at predictable intervals?

When there is an eclipse NOT predicted by astronomers that's the time to even give a slight bit of credence to "signs"....... for a few minutes before we let them get to work on explaining it on that "scientific level" that is.

[demwing]

62. There is mystery in everything, if you are open to it

and a great difference in the measurement of a thing, and the understanding.

[dmallind]

86. Not for any definition of the word that has meaning

What is the mystery in an eclipse, the simple predictable movement of objects with fixed orbits in relationship to each other?

[Warren DeMontague]

39. No, some find the truth and the science far more aesthetic and mysterious than any woo

Yes, there are mysteries at the frontiers of science, but you don't get to them by rejecting the science or tossing off Oprah-esque nuggets of meaningless nonsense like "Science only gives us part of the answer".

The universe is not an "utter mystery despite science"; our knowledge of the universe, and the forces & processes that permeate and underlie it, has increased exponentially in the past century. Thanks to science.

The fact of the matter is, there is NO mystery behind a lunar eclipse. The mechanics have been well understood since Newton, even. That's why we knew exactly when it was going to start, and end.

[Confusious]

51. What mystery is that?

If you want to see it one way, others can see it their way. Why not a bunch of mass beheadings for example? When you get into the mystery business, you start becoming the church.

Why can't you just admire it for what it is? Why the need for mystery? Isn't there plenty trying to explain human behavior? Your post for example.

[eShirl]

50. BIG difference between a sign and a symbol.

Just sayin'.

[hlthe2b]

26. We have a good view in Denver--clouds cleared since midnight...

and the sky is totally clear. How is it for everyone else?

[Jeanette in FL]

28. Crystal clear here in North Florida

A bit cold, 37 degrees, but an awesome sight to be seen

[kentuck]

29. Excellent in the Springs.

It's awesome!

[Lucian]

31. A sign for what?

If you're interpreting this natural phenomena as a sign, then I suggest you should take some freshmen level Astronomy classes in high school to learn how and why a lunar eclipse occurs.

[AlienGirl]

42. No Parking? Speed Hump? Watch For Rocks?

[Warren DeMontague]

32. So, you're a determinist, then?

Because this "sign" was going to happen, no matter what anyone did or didn't do.

[Art_from_Ark]

33. Sign, sign, everywhere a sign

Blocking out the scenery, breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?

[RandomThoughts]

35. Signs you say? Signs?

Good movie that is. :D

Signs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY_LBAVWRMU


Side note I don't believe in aliens.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Good movie? Are you kidding? (SPOILER ALERT)

The fucking aliens who have come across the galaxy to renew Mel Gibson's (barf) faith (barf) didn't bother to consider, upon landing on the planet that is covered with 2/3 water, that they aren't waterproof. D'OH! That's a good movie?

That thing was completely idiotic.


As for you "don't believe in aliens"- does that mean you don't believe there is life anywhere else in the universe, besides the planet Earth? That strains credulity.

[RandomThoughts]

44. after all this time you think the water was water?

The water was in front of the books, and everywhere else also. Its a metaphor.


Might as well play this song again also, great song.


Simon & Garfunkel - Slip Sliding Away
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8nec2_simon-garfunkel-slip-sliding-away-f_music


I also made the comment on that movie years ago, that the books could be part of third defense, including inspired writings of many people, also a way to look at references to books in other movies also.


Going to skip the alien question part, there is a difference between thinking 'aliens could exist' and thinking that they are all over, or around earth to replace some other effects that occur.

Although their is a great comical answer to your alien question, but going to avoid that.

[RandomThoughts]

78. No response?

Side note, just because I don't believe in 'aliens' is not a criticism of those that do, that would be egotistical, and many that think of some things from that concept have really good hearts, and do help many people.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Yes. I think the water was water.

"Citizen Kane", that thing was not.

[demwing]

58. Yeah, pretty big hole in the plot

but it was still a fun movie

[dmallind]

36. I just understand astronomy and physics. Deary me.....nt

[cali]

41. superstitious nonsense.

[demwing]

56. Those who can't see signs

won't see sign.

[snooper2]

65. This post is a sign

A sign that you won't accept, but it is here..


it is here now...


all


I


Have to do ...is it


a little button. Actually, click a button on a device called a mouse making electrical contact and sending a signal via a USB interface, to a circuit board...that will send the signal through some resistors, and diodes, ultimately, to the signal processing engine. The CPU..

Is the sign ready? Hard to tell...

I
must
click





Sign



Happens


NOW!

[demwing]

83. If you think that I care

that you don't see signs, and think those who do are silly, then you thought wrong.

[snooper2]

85. Are you sending me a sign?

or a signal :rofl:

[demwing]

103. I made you laugh

I don't even care that you're laughing at me, not with me.

I'm trying to get in touch with my inner Ghandi.

Amswer - sign

[JuniperLea]

81. Nailed it...

Good morning! I'm so happy to be looking at the signs of your future! So much happiness is in store for you the most brilliantly lighted stars are put to shame by the brightness of your life! Oh, happiness, what an elusive thing you are, but thank GOD you were born beneath this star! Drop another coin in the slot and I will tell you more!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B993WYNtbqk&feature=rela...

[nenagh]

46. Still amazed at the Antikythera Mechanism.

[Norrin Radd]

48. It's meaningful to the meaningful,

and meaningless to the meaningless. ;-)

[DatManFromNawlins]

93. It's meaningful to the delusional

And delusional to the intelligent

[Norrin Radd]

102. The intelligent would know to use a period

at the end of sentence.

[Obamanaut]

52. While on a motorcycle ride yesterday, I saw a sign that read "Free

Bill Payer."

My first thought, before noticing that the sign was in front of the branch of a local bank, was "Why is Bill in prison."

[alterfurz]

53. variation on a theme

[Obamanaut]

54. Miz O just came by to ask what is so funny. Thanks for the photo. nt

[PassingFair]

59. Me too, like THIS one:

STOP superstition from clouding your mind.

And STOP before another car slams into you.

[pintobean]

72. .

[Ikonoklast]

96. Break it down!

[H2O Man]

60. yep

[Odin2005]

61. Stuperstitious BS.

[stuntcat]

63. I wish.

damn I wish it

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Here's a sign I didn't have trouble interpreting.

It says "turn the fuck around and fill up before proceeding".

[mr blur]

73. Ah, Pareidolia, where would we be without you?

[uncommon]

74. It's "science" not "signs" silly.

Sorry but I can't buy into this one. It happens. It's nature.

[mkultra]

76. It clearly symbolizes

The orbital nature of planets and satellites around the sun. <whispers>its 2010. we dont need myths anymore</whispers>

[Codeine]

77. Some folks are desperate to live in the Dark Ages.

An eclipse is neither sign nor portent, it's just orbital mechanics playing out in dispassionate fashion.

[superduperfarleft]

89. Oh, shit, you mean I sacrificed that virgin last night for nothing?

But I guess that means my harvest will still be plentiful, so at least it wasn't a total waste.

[SidDithers]

79. Trends!!!...nt

Sid

[Codeine]

98. I know history.

Guns of August.

[JuniperLea]

80. Doraldina's Prophecies...

Good morning! I'm so happy to be looking at the signs of your future! So much happiness is in store for you the most brilliantly lighted stars are put to shame by the brightness of your life! Oh, happiness, what an elusive thing you are, but thank GOD you were born beneath this star! Drop another coin in the slot and I will tell you more!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B993WYNtbqk&feature=rela...

[Blue_In_AK]

87. Kentuck, I've posted some sequential photos of the eclipse

as seen from Anchorage at my website here: http://northernvisions.smugmug.com/Events/Total-eclipse-of-the-moon/15159199_Gn5BL#1133740831_7XoXb

It got really foggy after this, so I couldn't get any shots of the moon coming out of the eclipse, but since it was snowing yesterday morning and we didn't know if we'd see the eclipse at all, I'm happy I captured what I did.

[kentuck]

123. Those are great photos!

What was most illuminating for me was where the shadows started on the moon? They did not start at the side, as some of us tend to view the planets and the universe from a linear perspective, but the sun was below the moon, otherwise how could the shadow be at the bottom of the moon? It is more of a vertical perspective. It was awesome!

[Renew Deal]

88. I'd agree if it was an accidental event.

But the eclipse was inevitable. So are the next ones until something changes. Maybe the sun doubling in size is a sign.

[superduperfarleft]

90. Isn't there a separate forum for goofiness like this?

Like a Middle Ages group or something?

[DainBramaged]

94. Another 25 years of Republican political dominance?

:shrug: :puke:

[LanternWaste]

97. you certainly got a lot of grief for saying "I believe..."

You certainly received a lot of grief in this thread for saying "I believe..."

And I'm certain many people will justify it.

[Warren DeMontague]

100. What is the point of posting a thread, if not to have people respond?

Oh, I'm sorry, everyone is supposed to agree.

[LanternWaste]

107. One may disagree without getting grief.

One may disagree without getting grief. One is not predicated on the other rendering your position invalid and irrelevant.

Oh, I'm sorry... everyone is supposed to be rude.

Sheesh. The moronic responses I read here from various dumb asses pretending to be smarter than they are would make Free republic blush.

[beam me up scottie]

99. So did the members of Heaven's Gate.

I hope you have the right kind of sneakers.

[Motown_Johnny]

104. a sign saying nothing

there is no meaning in a normal occurrence


Next year we get 2 lunar eclipses, are those both signs too?

[Recovered Repug]

105. Maybe it's what the Mayans predicted for 2012

and there was an error in conversion. Two years off ain't bad.

[StarsInHerHair]

110. astronomically the moon was in Taurus, back in 01 or thereabouts ALL

the planets lined up in Taurus even the outer planets-oops, I mean to include the planetoid Pluto. Astrologically........what is above is not what they say, they completely deny that Sun goes into Pisces on the Spring Equinox, they still pretend that the Sun goes into Aries. Oh well, off by only 2000 years......

[MilesColtrane]

113. We should have bombed the shit out of it when we had the chance.

The moon thinks it's so smart up there, changing shapes, disappearing, fucking with our oceans!

God, it pisses me off!

[kentuck]

114. But do we know what is on the other side?

The dark side??

[DavidDvorkin]

115. Here's a picture:

[kentuck]

116. Let me be the first to welcome you to Earth...

Alien. :-)

[DavidDvorkin]

118. I've certainly always felt like one.

[kentuck]

119. Impressive writings, David.

Your comments are much appreciated.

[DavidDvorkin]

125. Thanks.

[beam me up scottie]

127. There's a colony of light workers living there.

I have it on good authority that they were grateful our army of psychic warriors took control of the nuclear armed missile and deflected it just in the nick of time.

[DeadEyeDyck]

117. I believe in Stop Signs

[krispos42]

121. I don't.

But the traffic court judge didn't buy my argument.

[shugah]

122. it is only a sign if someone grabs and uses it

"The battle is best known for the Parhelion, also known as sun dogs, which produced an image of three perfect suns above the fields, on the morning of the battle."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/herefordandworcester/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8492000/8492978.stm


1461:
"the Monday before the day of battle, . . . about 10 at clock before noon, were seen 3 suns in the firmament shining full clear, where of the people had great marvel, and thereof were aghast. The noble Earl Edward them comforted and said, 'be of good comfort and dread not; this is a good sign, for these three suns betoken the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and therefore let us have good heart, and in the name of Almighty God go we against our enemies."

edward IV won the battle and went on to adopt the "Sun in Splendour" as a badge. and became king of england.