A round of applause for our SOS Hillary Clinton. You know she had

[monmouth]

to be knee-deep in the goings on, going back and forth with Washington, talks day and night with PTB. She looked very tired and needed the hairdresser ASAP the last time I saw her. I like that her job comes first before those trivial things I think of. Way to go Mrs. Clinton, you've done a great job.

[virgogal]

1. I'll second that. !

[bluestateguy]

2. Indeed

All she has to do is announce for president IN 2016 and I will do every thing I can to make her the 45th President of the United States.

[sufrommich]

9. I confess to hoping she'll change her mind about that too. nt

[leftofcool]

14. +1000

[emilyg]

45. +++++

[calimary]

69. That'd work for me!

I'd be shoulder-to-shoulder with you, bluestateguy!

[ReggieVeggie]

3. needed a hairdresser?

Will women ever get any respect?

[monmouth]

7. Well I'm a woman and I'm hard pressed to see what lacked in

respect...She needed the hairdresser, no big deal..

[ReggieVeggie]

10. are people's value defined by their appearance?

seems a rather shallow perspective

[opiate69]

66. When people go in front of cameras beaming their image around the globe..

a certain value is placed on their appearance, regardless of gender... not a difficult concept, really

[ReggieVeggie]

117. not a difficult concept

a sad state of affairs

[DCBob]

4. I would love to know exaclty what our role was behind the scenes..

I hope we did help this happen.

[EFerrari]

25. Behind the scenes on the protesters' part

there's no whisper of American support.

Why would there be. Mubarak was a US anchor.

[DCBob]

The "behind the scenes" stuff was probably more related to working with the Egyptian military..

and "persuading" Mubarak to give it up.

[EFerrari]

27. The Egyptian army isn't suicidal.

They weren't going to be harmed by Mubarak.

[Number23]

30. Large groups of Egyptians were happily chanting "Obama"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x609772

Apparently, they are under the impression that the president did much to help and/or support their cause. I'm not exactly sure that means, but it means something. But to many here, this will do nothing for the curious and idiotic "all he did was watch" meme.

[DCBob]

31. Really.. thats cool! I had not heard that.

:thumbsup:

[MattSh]

111. Weren't large groups of Americans happily chanting "Obama" 30 months ago?

Then Americans got the memo. Most of the talk was BS. If Americans want change, don't depend on politicians. Do it yourself.

I'm sure the Egyptians understand that already. Unlike way too many Americans, still thinking that someday the political system just might work for them.

[blm]

129. Hillary and Wisner pulled right for Mubarak/status quo. Kerry pulled Obama left towards protestors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13diplomacy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

>>>>>
Mr. Obama was furious, and it did not help that his secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Mr. Wisner’s key backer, was publicly warning that any credible transition would take time — even as Mr. Obama was demanding that change in Egypt begin right away.

Seething about coverage that made it look as if the administration were protecting a dictator and ignoring the pleas of the youths of Cairo, the president “made it clear that this was not the message we should be delivering,” said one official who was present. He told Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to take a hard line with his Egyptian counterpart, and he pushed Senator John Kerry to counter the message from Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Wisner when he appeared on a Sunday talk show the next day.

The trouble in sending a clear message was another example of how divided Mr. Obama’s foreign policy team remains. A president who himself is often torn between idealism and pragmatism was navigating the counsel of a traditional foreign policy establishment led by Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Biden and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, against that of a next-generation White House staff who worried that the American preoccupation with stability could put a historic president on the wrong side of history.
>>>>>

Status quo politicians who accepted and further GHWBush's foreign policy agenda the last 5 decades need to step aside, imo..

[dipsydoodle]

5. Sure

I'll give the one hand clap anytime.

[girl gone mad]

6. Clinton to world: Mubarak's regime is stable.

Egypt to Clinton: Mubarak's rule is finished.

:bounce:

[blm]

16. Yep....people tend to forget some of these recent headlines. She probably DID come round in the end

when it became obvious that Mubarak had to go and Obama threw in with those calling for Mubarak to leave.

[Very_Boring_Name]

19. See post #6

[Very_Boring_Name]

18. When Clinton makes a public statement, she's speaking for the president

Please don't confuse her personal beliefs with her job as SoS.

[blm]

127. Except here she was with Wisner and Kerry was speaking for Obama who was PISSED Clinton sent

Wisner. Those of us who knew the dynamics of the last 40 years, knew damn well what side Clintons were on.....Poppy Bush's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13di...

>>>>
Mr. Obama was furious, and it did not help that his secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Mr. Wisner’s key backer, was publicly warning that any credible transition would take time — even as Mr. Obama was demanding that change in Egypt begin right away.

Seething about coverage that made it look as if the administration were protecting a dictator and ignoring the pleas of the youths of Cairo, the president “made it clear that this was not the message we should be delivering,” said one official who was present. He told Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to take a hard line with his Egyptian counterpart, and he pushed Senator John Kerry to counter the message from Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Wisner when he appeared on a Sunday talk show the next day.
>>>>

[Lorien]

46. Yep. There's a lot of revisionist history going on here today

the revolution's success came from the Egyptian PEOPLE, not our government, who was more than happy to keep Mubarek as a useful puppet.

[orion007]

80. responded to wrong poster

[orion007]

82. And the Egyptians may have had it with her too, can't blame them n/t

[Zax2me]

8. BIG thumbs up!!!

She gets every kudos coming to her.

[Wilms]

11. What did I miss? n/t

:shrug:

[polmaven]

12. Well done Madam Secretary!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[blm]

13. In the tug of war, I'm pretty sure she was more sided with Mubarak staying. Others did not.

It was others pulling Obama leftward to support an exit. Clinton is the one who most likely chose Wisner to meet with Mubarak.

[EFerrari]

32. And let's not forget: Haiti's sham election shames US

Haiti's sham election shames US
Mark Weibrot
December 2010

Washington cannot confer legitimacy on this flawed election that does nothing for Haitians living under tarps, menaced by cholera

UN soldiers from Sri Lanka at the Haitian election tabulation centre in Port-au-Prince. The elections ended in confusion on Sunday, as 12 of the 18 presidential candidates denounced 'massive fraud', although international observers insist the eventual result will stand. Photograph: Eduardo Munoz/Reuters

The election in Haiti shows, once again, how low Washington's standards are for democracy in countries that they want to control politically. And there is no doubt who is in charge there. There is a government, to be sure, but since the elected government in 2004 was overthrown, and even more since the earthquake, it is the "international community" that calls the shots – Hillary Clinton's code for the US state department.

The election was a farce to begin with, once the non-independent CEP (Provisional Electoral Council) decided to exclude the country's largest political party from participating, along with other parties: Fanmi Lavalas is the party of Haiti's most popular political leader, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. It has won every election that it has contested. Aristide himself remains in exile – unable to return since the US-sponsored overthrow of his government in 2004.

Imagine holding an election in the United States with both the Democratic and Republican parties prohibited from participating. If we look at other troubled elections in the world – Iran in 2009, or Afghanistan more recently – Haiti's is even less legitimate. It is perhaps most comparable to the recent election in Burma.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/dec/01/haiti-usa

[Puregonzo1188]

51. Yeah, it's really sad Haiti isn't getting much attention on DU.

[orion007]

55. Aristide's retutrn to Haiti ?

Now Aristide has been issued a diplomatic passport by the government, and is preparing to return. But Washington does not agree , as U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley made clear yesterday. He was also asked if the U.S. government had pressured either the Haitian or South African governments to prevent Aristide's return. He refused to answer; I take that as a "yes."

It's in the news today.

[DURHAM D]

35. You are so predictable. nt

[EFerrari]

38. Yes, blm is predictably factual. n/t

[blm]

126. What a useful thing facts can be when one is forming an opinion of a matter....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13di...

>>>>
Mr. Obama was furious, and it did not help that his secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Mr. Wisner’s key backer, was publicly warning that any credible transition would take time — even as Mr. Obama was demanding that change in Egypt begin right away.

Seething about coverage that made it look as if the administration were protecting a dictator and ignoring the pleas of the youths of Cairo, the president “made it clear that this was not the message we should be delivering,” said one official who was present. He told Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to take a hard line with his Egyptian counterpart, and he pushed Senator John Kerry to counter the message from Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Wisner when he appeared on a Sunday talk show the next day.
>>>>

[orion007]

58. Clinton most certainly did choose Wisner, what a disaster!

[EFerrari]

15. Are you applauding her support for Mubarak or for Suleiman?

I'm lost.

[Monique1]

17. I need a haircut

but I am the same person without it. What is this problem with appearance? I know some one who is not well kept - this person is the most giving and caring persons in the world. Have you looked in the mirror lately?

[orion007]

20. The Egyptian people weren't applauding her

ring a March 2, 2009 interview with the Arab television network Al Arabiya in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was asked about the State Deparment’s annual human rights report, which is perennially critical of Egypt’s record, and whether it was tied to an invitation for Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to visit the United States.

She replied, in part:

“No. It’s an annual report. It is not in any way connected. We look forward to President Mubarak coming as soon as his schedule would permit. I had a wonderful time with him this morning. I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family. So I hope to see him often here in Egypt and in the United States.”

Here’s the full exchange, including a question right afterward about the future of the Egyptian Presidency, which Clinton replies is up to the Egyptian people.

QUESTION: On another issue, the State Department issued a report about criticizing the human rights record of Egypt. And what kind of – in order for Egypt to enhance its record, what do you recommend or ask Egypt to do?

SECRETARY CLINTON: We issue these reports on every country. We consider Egypt to be a friend and we engage in very forthright conversations with our friends. And so we hope that it will be taken in the spirit in which it is offered, that we all have room for improvement. The United States, as you have seen under our new President, is moving to remedy some of the problems that we have had. We view human rights as very important. It’s central to our value system and to our foreign policy, and so we want to enlist others to make progress.

QUESTION: Is this file, by any chance, connected to the invitation – extended invitation – for President Mubarak to visit the United States?

SECRETARY CLINTON: No. It’s an annual report

[rabs]

42. Okay, maybe Hil and Bill can invite Hosni over for a weekend cookout or something

(from your post)

"I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family. So I hope to see him often here in Egypt and in the United States.”

Or could it be that now that Hosni is out, he is no longer a family friend :shrug:

[orion007]

53. She still has China....remember this one?

Log in | Register
Telegraph.co.uk

China
Hillary Clinton: Chinese human rights secondary to economic survival
Hillary Clinton has told China that the US considers human rights concerns secondary to economic survival.

[rabs]

68. Jeebus, had not seen her stance on China HR record

But why am I not surprised.

And now afraid it will be Haiti's turn.

Perhaps you may have not seen it but on the first Sunday of the Egyptian revolution, when the situation was really hot, Hillary made a quick trip to Port-au-Prince to set up the runoff election next month for president of that unfortunate country.

There are nine BILLION dollars in international aid raised after last year's massive earthquake at stake. So Hil and company have to make sure the "right" candidate gets in so the billions can go to the "right" multinationals, not to the Haitian people.

I lost faith in Hil after the '09 fascist coup in Honduras, when she did nothing, and many Hondurans were killed, tortured, disappeared.

[orion007]

73. Aristides return? she's up to her old tricks again

And we can't forget just how much Bill raised....
It's a sin, how people can watch others suffer when some help is available.
Thanks for the information,she certainly knows how to
cherry-pick to her advantage.
As the years went on she became everything I abhor in a woman.

check the latest on Aristide

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/americas/US-Wary-of-Aristides-Return-to-Haiti--115671624.html

[EFerrari]

23. Okay, now more lost. Is your grooming somehow germaine to this topic?

[ReggieVeggie]

33. apparently, grooming defines a person

according to the op

[EFerrari]

36. Wait, so this thread is about soldiering on without a hair cut?

Really?

That's what I get for posting while sleep deprived.

lol

[rabs]

99. You mean Jermaine Jackson of the Jackson Five ?

Or,

The germs on his mane were constantly on his mind; the germs on his mind were germane to his health.

Just joshing. :-)

----------------

Back to Aristide. Ira Kurzban, Aristide's Miami-based attorney, picked up the passport earlier this week in Port-au-Prince. The logistics now are how to get the passport to Aristide in South Africa and to arrange his return. And to arrange security for Aristide when he arrives.

Thinking he may land in Santo Domingo and do an overland trip, considering that the airport in Port-au-Prince is U.N./U.S. controlled.

We shall see.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

122. Thanks, rabs! I tried to find that news last night

but my eyes gave out and I had to stop. :hi:

[JCMach1]

108. Without US pressure, Mubarak would still be holding out

We helped his exit along by some time.

We did not make the same mistake we did with the Shah.

[EFerrari]

109. On what planet?

Do you mean the pressure where she said he was her friend or the pressure where she said he needed to be part of the transition? Or the pressure where she endorsed our torturer?

I must have missed the pressure part.

[JCMach1]

113. Games within games- Sec. St. has to give the official stance of the admin.

That shifted radically over the last few days. Much was going on behind the scenes. I have little doubt that much will come out about this in the next weeks.

[EFerrari]

121. That's pure speculation. And no, their position didn't change

radically at all. They didn't even consider about pulling military aid to an army that was kidnapping and torturing people.

[JCMach1]

125. It did- I am sure you will see this come out...

[blm]

130. Read today's NYT, JC.....Clinton/Wisner were siding more with Mubarak than Obama was

..

[Smashcut]

114. Funny how fast the story's changing isn't it?

Obama and Clinton were behind this popular revolt the WHOLE TIME!

:rofl:

[quinnox]

21. A great woman, and unfortunate that a male chauvinistic

society could not bring itself to elect her President of the USA. Their loss.

[formercia]

41. I don't think so.

The more I see how Hillary operates, the more I'm glad she wasn't elected President.

[Liquorice]

57. +1 nt

[trud]

22. Really? I think the USA was irrelevant.

As it should be.

[melody]

26. The USA is still quite relevant in and to the USA

Which is what the OP was discussing.

[Lorien]

48. Yeah, we propped up their brutal dictator for years

then blew with the winds when they changed.

[melody]

110. We didn't. The global oil cartel did. You and I aren't anything to them.

The insane idea that 309 million Americans who worked hard, fought to feed and care for their families, and were cheated out of the most basic health benefits most other "first world" nations enjoy, are somehow responsible for propping up a brutal dictator? And that somehow millions of wealthy Europeans and other nationals skate free? Give me a break.

The USA is still important to her people. It's the only country and nationality we have. Are Egyptians damned for being Egyptian because they had a dictator?

[formercia]

24. I'm waiting to see the after-action report

before I criticize or applaud anyone but the people in Tahrir Square and other locations of anti-regime demonstrations.

Others would be wise to do the same.

[hugo_from_TN]

28. Clinton and Obama got steamrolled by the Egyptian people

They were scrambling to keep up with events. I saw no leadership at all.

[jannyk]

29. Same here. eom

[Raine]

34. I have to agree

it doesn't seem the US came off looking very well during this whole thing, they came off as clueless IMO.

[karynnj]

70. It sounds like Obama came off well through his speeches yesterday and today

The fact that their appears to be little anti-American sentiment is likely because Obama is President.

Other than Obama, John Kerry was consistent and saying the right things from the beginning - calling on Mubarak to gracefully step down a week and a half ago.

[politicasista]

112. +1 n/t

[girl gone mad]

43. Exactly.

[orion007]

54. More like "shell shocked" n/t

[Puregonzo1188]

37. Are you kidding me? The US was back rolling Mubarak until it was impossible while undermining Haiti.

Seriously, that's why she's tired. On Sunday she did four talk shows in Egypt, then flew to Haiti in order to interfere in their democratic election.


She hardly deserves applause and quite frankly I find the notion rather appalling.

[Lorien]

47. +1. And it's sickening that the team Obama fans here are trying to give credit

of ANY kind for the revolution to U.S. politicians! It's not about us, folks!

[Puregonzo1188]

50. Agreed. It's not even personal to Obama or Clinton. The US role in the Middle East is larger than

any one person and anyone party. Revolutions against US propped up dictators aren't good for it.

[orion007]

97. So right, and it was the young man in Tunisia who through

his suicide sparked the hearts and minds of millions of Egyptians, and so they began.
Bless them all.

[orion007]

59. Right, she's got to make sure Aristide never returns ,shame,shame

[tekisui]

39. She (and Biden) were on 'the wrong side of history'. Not applauding.

[orion007]

60. Murbark's not a dictator!!! I couldn't watch Biden today commenting

on Murbark's leaving, the "dictator" comment is well and alive in my head,and hopefully remains there.
I'm so discusted!

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[orion007]

74. Agree with you Poppy, you just reminded me of something

When Hillary and Obama starting backing down from supporting the Egyptian people and Murbarak needing to go now,rumor was spreading that Bibi/Israel was threatening to attack Iran if the US didn't back off of Murbarak's departure.
I haven't heard anything about this since, but it would explain their about face.

[defendandprotect]

81. Wow ... !! Didn't know that re Bibi --

But the info re Obama/Hillary/Biden I heard on Al Jazeera tonight --

evidently they were on the phone a lot to Mubarak regime --

and this individual said that's what they were pushing.

The whole thing is just so absolutely disgusting!!

Also think it would be great if Egypt can now give some help to the

people in Gaza and relieve that situation somehow!!

Maybe some Israelis -- the peace-loving ones -- might also now get

some idea of standing up to these Fundi-hawks/MIC in Israel!

Can't ask for any more from the fates today -- I'm so happy for the

Egyptian protesters!!

[orion007]

89. I feel that what's taking place is so beyond our sphere of

understanding that what had just seemed an impossibility is now possible elsewhere.
Gaza? next to go is Abbas,long overdue, another corrupt bastard.many are waiting for Marwan Barghouti to be released from jail,
Yes, the beautiful fates have arrived and in Egypt to boot!

[coalition_unwilling]

75. Biden was finished in my book when he allowed Anita Hill to be

savaged and sullied during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. He chaired the Senate Judiciary Committee at the time and he presided over a confirmation hearing that allowed a truth teller (Hill) to be villified and a perjurer (Thomas) to be confirmed to the U.S. Supremes. I wrote him off then and have never once had cause to question my opinion of him since. What a putz.

[defendandprotect]

83. Oh, I know ... one of the BIG issues with me --

and not only that -- he had told the Hill team/mentors/advisors that the numerous

witnesses against Clarence Thomas WOULD be called to testify. One of them was

Angela Wright -- who I also believed -- no problem with her story.

But, there were a half dozen or more women who had worked at the EEOC -- one I think

a speech writer for Thomas -- who were all going to testify that they were absolutely

aware of Thomas' crude sexual comments and nature! One of the women was in the

hospital at the time and would have left to testify had she been called!

Anyway, Biden did this overnight show -- game-playing with -- think it was Armongstrong

Williams/? as a matter of fact, who was putting forth this BS story about Hill having

been flirting with him and trying to date him!! By four O'clock in the morning, it

turned out he couldn't remember if he had called Hill or if Hill had called him!!

And it was all about nothing, except Biden working to keep the actual witnesses from

tetifying against Thomas. At 4 o'clock in the morning, Biden CLOSED the hearing without

calling any of the anti-Thomas witnesses -- and in complete betrayal of what he had

told the Hill legal team would be happening!!

And, this is the guy so many here were so thrilled to have for VP!!! Yikes!!



:hi:

[coalition_unwilling]

90. Thank you. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in despising Biden

for what transpired with the Thomas hearings.

[defendandprotect]

98. Sen. Paul Simon who evidently began to find out what Biden had been hiding ....

said if the Congress had known BEFORE they voted on Thomas what they knew

afterwards, he wouldn't have been appointed.

I'm always hoping that either C-span or PBS will play ALL of the Thomas Hearings

one holiday weekend!!

And, I'm amazed that so many here evidently don't know or don't care --

Afraid to think which!!


:hi:

[coalition_unwilling]

101. Thomas adroitly played the 'race card' by claiming that he was a

victim of a "high-tech lynching," metaphorically linking his fate to that of lynched black people in the pre-Civil Rights Era in the South. Thomas' deployment of the race card was almost as despicable as the act of nominating Thomas to fill the seat previously held by Thurgood Marshall, when Thomas wasn't fit to lick the soles of Marshall's shoes.

People didn't care then so it really shouldn't surprise you that they don't care now, as sad as that sounds. I remember being shocked at the openly misogynistic comments I heard about Hill at the time by some of my male colleagues when it seemed obvious to me that Hill was telling the truth and Thomas was lieing through his (clenched) teeth. It really opened my eyes to the issue of sexual harassment and discrimination in the workplace. But I could see that most people thought Hill was being a 'bitch' now or had been a 'whore' or 'jilted suitor' back when she worked with Thomas at the EEOC.

I will never forgive Biden for what he allowed to happen to Hill. And I hold Biden personally responsible for it. Anita Hill deserved better.

[defendandprotect]

103. Loved Thurgood Marshall ... and when he was retiring ...

and reporters were asking him if he thought Poppy Bush would keep the seat as a

"black" seat, Marshall said ...

"It's not the color of a snake that's important. It's whether or not it bites!"

Clarence Thomas is a snake who bites -- and his own people call him a "Judas."


People didn't care then so it really shouldn't surprise you that they don't care now, as sad as that sounds. I remember being shocked at the openly misogynistic comments I heard about Hill at the time by some of my male colleagues when it seemed obvious to me that Hill was telling the truth and Thomas was lieing through his (clenched) teeth. It really opened my eyes to the issue of sexual harassment and discrimination in the workplace. But I could see that most people thought Hill was being a 'bitch' now or had been a 'whore' or 'jilted suitor' back when she worked with Thomas at the EEOC.

Feel the way you do but then sometimes think how many didn't see the whole of the hearings.

Think it did some good in waking people up, though.

I will never forgive Biden for what he allowed to happen to Hill. And I hold Biden personally responsible for it. Anita Hill deserved better.

One day in the future, perhaps, we'll see retribution for that --

and then Obama appointed the snake Alan Simpson who also played a large role in the Hill

witch hunt to the Cat Food Commission!!

Disgusting!!

[EFerrari]

85. Yikes. I managed to forget that. n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

93. Some memories die hard. See post #83 for another DUer with

a long memory.

[orion007]

92. wow, I forgot about that,thanks so much n/t

[chillspike]

40. +1

Love her!

[Rowdyboy]

44. One of Obama's smartest appointments....it was sheer genius for many reasons,

not the least of which is HRC's enormous authority. No one would dare fail to listen when she speaks.

[orion007]

61. Bill does...lol....

[Rowdyboy]

104. No Bill doesn't...LOL...Bll respects her as a serious player...he's proved that

over and over. She doesn't need asswipes to confirm her authority. She's earned it already.

[blm]

128. Well...the Egyptian people failed to listen to her, fortunately. You might want to read NYT today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13diplomacy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

>>>>>
Mr. Obama was furious, and it did not help that his secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Mr. Wisner’s key backer, was publicly warning that any credible transition would take time — even as Mr. Obama was demanding that change in Egypt begin right away.

Seething about coverage that made it look as if the administration were protecting a dictator and ignoring the pleas of the youths of Cairo, the president “made it clear that this was not the message we should be delivering,” said one official who was present. He told Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to take a hard line with his Egyptian counterpart, and he pushed Senator John Kerry to counter the message from Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Wisner when he appeared on a Sunday talk show the next day.

The trouble in sending a clear message was another example of how divided Mr. Obama’s foreign policy team remains. A president who himself is often torn between idealism and pragmatism was navigating the counsel of a traditional foreign policy establishment led by Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Biden and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, against that of a next-generation White House staff who worried that the American preoccupation with stability could put a historic president on the wrong side of history.
>>>>>

Status quo politicians who accepted and further GHWBush's foreign policy agenda the last 5 decades need to step aside, imo..

[grahamhgreen]

49. Sorry, she stood behind Mubarak. FAIL.

[LeFleur1]

64. SHE stood behind Mubarak?

Every President for years and years, and their SOS (on orders), has stood behind Mubarak. Explain why Hillary Clinton should take blame for backing him.
Hillary is doing a good job during a tough time, and following the orders of her President even though she doesn't agree with him in every instance.

[EFerrari]

65. No use beating up on Clinton but she did say (on her own)

that she considered him a family friend.

[orion007]

79. Stating the obvious isn't beating up on her....n/t

[defendandprotect]

86. Hillary considered Mubarak a "family friend" -- Yikes!!

:puke:

[defendandprotect]

84. Because if you want to talk about "democracy" and backing Mubarak you're talking out of

both sides of your mouth!!

PLUS, the trio -- Obama/Biden/Hillary -- were back Sulieman -- a TORTURER to

replace a TORTURERE -- to lead the government!!


:puke:

[WolverineDG]

52. but I bet she looked purty in whatever pantsuit she was wearing

:eyes:

sorry, I've never thought any male Secretary of State needed to see a barber or have a shave, so why should Hillary need to have her hair done?

And yes, she does look waaaay tired. She's probably working triple over-time to undo all the damage from the Bush years.

dg

[coalition_unwilling]

78. Um, Hilary voted for the Iraq War. 'All the damage from the Bush years' is

partially her responsibility, wouldn't you say?

[defendandprotect]

87. Hillary is also part of DLC leadership ... why back the corporate-wing of the party?

[WolverineDG]

120. what the fuck ever

:eyes:

I'm not interested in re-hashing the primary. The OP included an incredibly sexist remark about Hillary needing a hairdresser, something which would *NEVER* be said about a male SoS.

dg

[NuclearDem]

56. I normally support her...

But the opposition to Wikileaks and being on the wrong side in Egypt...sorry, not this time.

[orion007]

63. Here comes Israel, the elephant in the middle of the room

She and Obama have serious issues now with Israel, and her tossing Bibi a few extra million may not work this time.
When Hillary and Obama started backing down from supporting the Egyptian people and Murbarak's exit,you know it was because enormous pressure was being put on them by Israel.

[defendandprotect]

88. I didn't know that -- but always thought that's was really what

they wanted anyway -- they also wanted the TORTURER, Sulieman!!

And sent Wisner -- another slime -- to talk with Mubarak!!

Israel is warmongering and warmaking on Palestine with the money we give them

and the weapons we give them -- it has to stop!

It's atrocious what they've done to Palestine!!

And the GAZA strip!!


Just a PS on this -- think there must be a lot of worries about our Rendition

program being uncovered there -- i.e., any details, names, treatment coming out --

maybe more!! The more I learn about my country, the more ashamed I am of my government!!

[Beacool]

62. Hear, hear!!!

She works very hard and is constantly sleep deprived, but who cares about her hair?

:applause:

[karynnj]

67. This was something that EGYPTIANS did for Egypt

President Obama's Cairo speech could have had some impact, but it was the guts and faith of the Egyptians willing to stand against a tyrant.

As to the US, Hillary's showed that she was mostly reacting - not leading on this. Many people are saying that Gates and Mullen used their contacts with the military. It may come out that Hillary did something that was helpful, but on the surface, she was one of the people less willing to push Mubarak to step down.

[defendandprotect]

71. No, thanks!! Obama, Hillary and Biden were involved in trying to set up Sulieman to succeed -- !!

The TORTURER to succeed another TORTURER --

Also Biden telling us that Mubarak wasn't a dictator -- !!! :eyes:

And Obama couldn't get the words out of his mouth to say unequivocably to Mubarak ...

"You and your regime should depart ... NOW!!" ???

[orion007]

77. Israel was all for Sulieman too, god, this wonderful unexpected

event in Egypt certainly allowed the world to see just how we and other countries support and enable dictators and corruption.
Even though many many people have this awareness something is different this time.

[defendandprotect]

94. So true ... and I'm thinking they may be worried about other info coming out now ...

Egyptian people may be interested in what's been going on in their own country and

getting a hold of some documents?

The trail to the money should be very interesting -- and they seem to be saying hey

want to put him on trial. Gee, what a thought! Justice?

[orion007]

100. Poetic Justice, was wondering about the Swiss supposedly

doing some freezing of Murbark's money today which may look good on paper,but come on, the guys had plenty of time to make arrangements to move money.
I'm sure other countries/banking institutions would line up frothing at the mouth to get a few billion.u
As far as I know germany is the only country that will take him in, there's enormous problems because he will be brought up on crimes against humanity, coruption on and on.
No country would give him or the US a guarantee that he wouldn't be charged.
A little buzz about Saudia Arabia taking him.
Germany would, Merkel said under some kind of medical issue, then he'd probably be declared dying and all charges null and void?( my thought) cause there's always doctors who will swear your at deaths door.?

All that's coming is even bigger the Egypt,just amazing, and the young people of Egypt, oh, my
Heard yesterday an older Egyptian man being interviewed, and he said the older ones are so proud of their youth, theyre lived a life of misery and no hope, depressed and were resigned to this life, and all that's changing now due to the young ones(para-phrasing this)

[defendandprotect]

102. And Bush not going to Switzerland ...

in some ways we're being rocketed out of the Bush/Torture years forward --

but not by America!

Doubt it's possible, but thought I saw something which suggested $620 billion? --

Highest I think the Egyptians ever thought was $70 billion. You're right, whether

it's $1 billion or more, he's had time to move it.

Re Saudi Arabia, evidently they were going to make up any billions that Obama may

have withdrawn from Mubarak!!

Somehow, people were finding out something about what was really going on!

Evidently, Mubarak reported to be somewhere in UAR ...


All that's coming is even bigger the Egypt,just amazing, and the young people of Egypt, oh, my
Heard yesterday an older Egyptian man being interviewed, and he said the older ones are so proud of their youth, theyre lived a life of misery and no hope, depressed and were resigned to this life, and all that's changing now due to the young ones(para-phrasing this)

Beautiful people -- intelligent and wise -- and their young men so courageous and so willing to

risk their lives for their families and the future! Felt like I was on a roller coaster ride

with them this last week -- woke up worrying about them. Cried many times --

but tears of joy today!

[coalition_unwilling]

76. Not applauding her. She and her class propped up Mubarak and

enabled his tyranny for many years, just as she and her class sent the U.S. to war in Iraq that caused so much suffering and all based on lies. There is blood dripping from her hands.

[Liquorice]

91. Yes, everything is Hillary Clinton's fault. If it isn't her fault, then

then it's definitely Bill Clinton's fault. And sometimes they are both equally to blame. Blood is dripping from their hands!!!! :eyes:

[coalition_unwilling]

96. Not everything. But the Clintons are no friends to the average person

in the Middle East. And the average person in the Middle East knows it.

On edit: For what it's worth, estimates range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqis who have died premature deaths from violence as a result of the U.S. invasion and occupation. All for contemptible lies that were so ludicrous it only took about 30 minutes of focused internet research to debunk them. So, yeah, Hilary has blood dripping from her hands in a major way.

[Beacool]

106. Not an accurate assessment of what Congress voted on in 2002.

You want someone who is responsible for Iraq? Take it up with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.

:eyes:

[Beacool]

105. Oh please, the drama...............

"There's blood dripping from her hands."

Utter nonsense!!!

:crazy:

[dionysus]

118. don't worry Bea, i got in a new shipment, just for you!

:hi:

[Beacool]

123. Ohhhh, a giraffe banky.

And it's a really handsome one too.

Thank you!!!

:pals:

[blm]

131. No blood on her hands, just rope burns from trying to pull WH rightward on Egypt...

alongside her pal, Wisner, of course. Thankfully there were others pulling WH towards a position that was more in tune with the PEOPLE of Egypt.

[Skip Intro]

95. Loves me some Hillary! nt

[RegieRocker]

107. What a load

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

116. no wonder the democratic party loses voters

when you make shit up, people distrust you.

[CTyankee]

119. She really did look tired. I felt bad for her and hoped all her efforts would not

be for naught. I voted for her in the CT primary as I thought that I'd never have a chance to vote for a woman for president in my lifetime if I didn't cast a vote for her. My daughter did the same...

[Catherina]

124. Lol o lol. #WTF #FAIL n/t