Next time a politician says that they are a Christian...

[WCGreen]

See if they voted to cut aide to the poor while boosting the money shoveled at the military industrial complex...

I am just sick to my stomach about the proposed cuts in the heating program when all we would have to do to pay for the program is to not wage war in Afghanistan for a couple of weeks.

I'm not a believer in the divinity of Christ, but I do adhere to what he taught.

He preached about a new covenant that proclaimed the power of god was in the hands of the people. He preached that how you treat your fellow mam, even if they are from another "tribe" (Samaritans come to mind), determines how you will be treated in the afterlife.

Again, I don't need a supernatural threat to guide my behavior, but those who do and proclaim to high heaven that they make decisions based on what would Jesus do I say LISTEN TO JESUS and not the lobbyists.

And I am as certain as a man can be that Jesus would say heat the people when they need heat.

I'm just disgusted and I don't buy the meme that this is a "political" tactic. It's reprehensible given the trillions of public dollars spent to shore up the investment class.

[The Wielding Truth]

1. Exactly!

[RKP5637]

2. Typical give money to the rich, take from the poor, and endorse trickle down

economics. Same old crap.

[WingDinger]

3. Not familiar with calvinism? God has blessed the rich, for being good. Or at least better than the r

rest of us.

[WCGreen]

4. I am familiar with Calvinism....

But it seems the Calvinists are not familiar with Christ.

[Newest Reality]

5. All the smokescreens and facades do not seem

to cover-up the fact that they practice nonstop fellatio on corporations. Oh, but that's too rude.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I cannot even begin to improve on what you've said here...

Well said, Chris...

Recommended...

[DCKit]

7. Is it time to sick the self-professed Xtians on Congress?

If they believe what is written in the New Testament, they are our allies.

We need to embarrass them into doing the right thing. For all our sakes.

[WCGreen]

8. I think we need to point out the hypocracy....

[Curmudgeoness]

9. I wish I would have said this as well as you did.

And you are right, we do have to continue to grill them on these Christian values that they say they have.

I guess I will have to brush up on my New Testament so I can come to the gunfight with ammunition.

[WCGreen]

10. These fundies take the harsh justice from the Old Testament,

Sprinkle just a little Jesus on for good measure and zoom right to Revelations.

Their religion is based on fear and retribution.

[Curmudgeoness]

11. But, they are calling themselves "Christ"ians. New Testament

is supposed to override the Old Testament. If not, how do you (or they) explain the contradiction of "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek"?

Sorry, why am I asking you? I just get confused.

[WCGreen]

13. The way I look at it is like this:

The first covenant was between Abraham and Yahweh. That is what the Old Testament is all about. That covenant and to explain the history of the Jews so that they could justify their homeland.

It reads like a history book about the people and the evolution of their god.

The rules that were set down were complicated and harsh because the lifestyle was harsh, unforgiving. The religion was based on place with an over riding spirituality.

What Jesus said with his new covenant was that it was simple and was without boundary. He spoke of that new covenant and ritualized it with communion. It was the personal relationship with Jesus that so many people talk about today.

Revelation was added to the canon when with the Council of Nicea in 325 AD.

http://petragrail.tripod.com/nicea.html

Right Wing Christianity has morphed away from the simple teachings of Jesus and become a mish mash of the harsh retribution that can be found in the Old Testament with the none of the good with the hell and damnation as described in Revelations. They focus too much on the death of Jesus and little on his actual teachings.

There are so many versions of the Christian Jesus that two Churches next to each other could be diametrically opposed.

But I take people at the word when it comes to Jesus. If they call themselves Christians I say lose the Old Testament and stick to the Gospel and forget about Revelations.

I can't figure how one person can say, as you point out, an eye for an eye with turn the other cheek.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

16. There's lots of mean nasty stuff in the Gospels, if you look.

"I come not in peace but with a sword" is just the beginning.

There are lots of places where Jesus was mean and cruel and capricious and agreed that the OT should be enforced, and people who don't like his preaching should be killed, etc.

It's in there. Just look.

Jesus was a bad dude in the NT, and not in a good way.

[WCGreen]

17. Of course there are but it is all written second hand and is not the

word of god but the musings of people two three hundred years on after Jesus allegedly walked the earth...

But the underlying message is captured in the sermon on the mount. That is the spark that sets the NT apart from the religions of old.

These are the passages that I find most comforting...

The Beatitudes
He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.



Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 6

Giving to the Needy
1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.



of course there is more that is more alligned with the OT but the whole "sermon" can be read here..

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=NIV

Believe me I am not vouching for this version, it is the first one that came up on Google....

This is what I take away from Christianity. This is where the breakthrough from the old parochial, insular way of the world to the modern way of looking at how we can all live together. Funny, for themost part, the Roman Empire tolerated religion diversity until the Christians took over the empire.

[The Doctor.]

12. You know them because they wear their faith on their sleeve,

not in their heart.

[ladjf]

14. It's interesting to me the Satanic Ten Commandments are the

Christian commandments reversed. It appears to me that the Christians are largely acting more like
Satanist that Christian. Who would you be more afraid up on a dark street at night, an Atheist or a Christian?

[WCGreen]

15. That's hard to say.....

[supertruck97]

18. What does the bible say about this?

Show me in the bible where it say it's ok to steal from one person to give to anther?

Show me in the bible where it says that you are allowed to FORCE others to give their possessions/money in the pursuit of a Christian ideal (helping the needy)?

How about we also talk about the separation of Church and State. Meaning NONE of our lawmakers should be using their Christian/Muslim/Satanic/Atheist beliefs to drive their reasoning behind legislation.



I agree with the premise that we should all be more charitable to our less fortunate neighbors. Help the needy. Feed the homeless. These are all wonderful things.

The place where Dems & Repubs differ is the method:

Repubs believe that the choice to give/be charitable should be left up to the individual. It is his or her own salvation/conscience/right that is at stake, not the nation's. If someone chooses to be miserly with their extra money, that is between that person and their God, and it is none of the business of the US Government.

Dems tend to believe that it is the job of government to FORCE others to care for the needy in the country. That the government should play a role in making each person more charitable for the common good.

Both parties are aiming for the same end result: less poverty, more charity and goodwill towards fellow man. Repubs believe that it should be the choice of the individual. Dems believe it should be the choice of the collective.

[WCGreen]

19. Well, in a naked capitalistic society like the US has become...

Do you really think that anyone of those people who are always yapping about the dem's taking their money would give any or THEIR money to anyone that found down on their luck...

We found out a long time ago that we can't always depend on the kindness of strangers, that it isn't fair to rely on one type of person, someone capable of compassion, to address all the problems that a highly specialized form of capitalism that leaves so many unprepared to deal with getting by, finding a niche, when say that niche is sent overseas in the on going quest for profit.

Capitalists would save tough beans and let it lay.

So you would, in your scenario, think it wrong to require the "collective" to kick in a little bit to help out those in need.

You see the way you have worded your response leads me to believe that you don't think it is the governments role to force anyone to give anything to anyone in need, that the reward or punishment should be meted out in the after life.

No thanks, I would rather everyone kick in a little whether they like it or not and not make people depend on the kindness of strangers because we saw how well that worked in the 1800's...

[supertruck97]

20. Well...

That's very noble of you to get to decide what others should do with money they earn.

[WCGreen]

21. True Colors Shining through....

BTW, I am an accountant and I can tell you right now that if all the taxes went away your take home pay would be exactly the same because the market figures in the cost of taxes and looks at the take home pay as the actual amount of money that you earn.

And if your pay did not drift downward, you could pretty much forget about getting any kind of raise for the next several years if not decades.

You can take that to the bank.

But a simple solution would be to somehow differentiate between those who don't want taxes taken out because they can find better uses for that money and charge them for all the things that government does.

You would get a bill for police protection, pay to get on any highway, pay for your kids to go to school, pay extra for inspected meat and other products that are protected by the FDA, pay extra for the safety of your car, your drugs, pay for the unsubsidized portion of the medicine, pay a pollution surcharge on everything that the EPA tests, pay full price for lumber, pay a surcharge for your part of the military....

In a complex, interactive, highly specialized world, it's virtually impossible for any individual to take care of everything needed to operate in the modern world.

I'm so sick and tired of people whining about paying taxes.

Go live on an island if you don't want to participate in society because that is essentially what you are pining for.