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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:46 AM
Original message
I talked to a homeless woman the other day..
I was riding my motorcycle in forty degree weather and was stopped at a gas station, the woman was walking by and when I nodded and said hello she asked me if I got cold and I told her that my riding suit is water and windproof as well as insulated and the only parts that get cold are my face and fingers as long as the ride is not too long.

She told me that the day before that was even colder and rainy she spent all day in her sleeping bag under the bridge where she lives, she then mentioned that she can't leave her stuff for more than a few minutes because someone worse off than her is likely to steal what few meager possessions she has.

It's hard to get much more poor than living under a damn bridge like a fucking troll in cold, wet weather.

Yes, poor people in Egypt are truly suffering, my point is that we have people that are arguably as badly off right here in the land of the free, the wealthiest nation on the planet.

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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. It amazes me that Americans are so apathetic ...
... in light of our own corrupt government and the war on the middle, poor,
and working classes.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Americans are conditioned from an early age to accept the notion
that they live in "the greatest country on earth." Before they would take to the streets, they'd have to accept an entirely different reality. In a nation in which people are content to put in their 8 hours and come home to an evening of American Idol or Jersey Shore, that's a tough sell.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. I'm an American and I was "conditioned", as you say, in the same way
I have, nonetheless, taken part in many demonstrations..as have others of my generation.


I remember when homelessness was a "new phenomenon" in the early mid-eighties -- Everyone thought it would be temporary.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
44. I completely agree with you. Everyone is conditioned to some extent, but
how much of it sticks is something else entirely. For every person who has protested, there are who knows how many sitting home in front of the tv watching crap. There is tremendous apathy out there.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Maybe, I'm not as sure as you..
There are reasons that have less to do with "apathy" than with geographic density and such, as to why the euros, for instance

find it easier to congregate en masse and demonstrate, and one is that they are more "tightly packed",

tending to live in cities more than we.
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Foo Fighter Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
92. I'm not so sure about that.
It has always been my experience that people across the pond are much more politically aware not only about what goes on their own county but worldwide as well.

In comparison, the average American can't be bothered to be overly concerned about something that doesn't directly affect them. Hell, what percentage can even name their local and Federal Congresspeople, not to mention what bills were voted on last week, whether or not they passed, how their respective Congresspersons voted on those bills, and what the bills actually mean?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #92
98. Is that right?
and what would that "experience" be?


I notice that you're profile is blank, so before you start the usual slam on "the average american"

you might want to tell us where you are from...and whether or not you are an "average" member

of that place.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #98
121. are you for real?
Edited on Sun Jan-30-11 03:18 PM by inna
pathetic.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. I'm fucking real
Are you fucking stupid?
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #123
124. do you realize how out-of-place, absurd and belligerent your posts are?

no answer needed.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. Try reading the other posts, dear.
Edited on Sun Jan-30-11 03:27 PM by whathehell
You may then realize what the hell you are talking about.
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kurtzapril4 Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. I sit in front of my TV and watch crap
but I also get out and protest, and am involved in local politics. Granted, I may be watching more high-brow crap...like Antiques Roadshow, Hoarders and Iron Chef..but it's not an either/or proposition.
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. I didn't say it was either/or. And I am in no way disrespecting
activists or suggesting that they can't watch tv, too . Just saying that in my experience those who are willing to protest government actions are few and far between. More Americans, IMO, would be likely to protest the cancellation of their favorite show than the government.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #56
100. Uh huh..
"In my experience"...

What IS your experience?...I notice your profile is blank with respect to country.

So what is your "experience" in this country and others and where do come from?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
99. People are "watching crap" around the globe....not just here. n/t
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. Remember why? Because Reagan cut funding for all the State mental hospitals
that action has never been reversed.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. You know, I used to think that, but according to my research,
which may be faulty, it ALSO had to do with the ACLU enacting new legislation that said that people can't be incarcerated or "held"

if they are not "a danger to themselves or others".


Believe me, I'd love to put all the blame on Ronnie, but it seems there was another factor at work.
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guyton Donating Member (370 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. I'm old enough ...
.. that my high school class visited our local state mental hospital on a field trip. It was in Camarillo, CA ... a few years before Governor Ronnie shut 'em all down.

I remember having an enlightening talk with one of the patients. He'd checked himself in for a while as he was having some problems dealing with the world.

My point is that not all the patients in the hospitals were forced to be there.

And I'm no lawyer, but I wonder if the "danger to themselves" standard couldn't include living on the streets. It's certainly not something I'd want to do if I wanted a long life.

So I think I'll go back to blaming Reagan and the far right that propelled him.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. You may be right.
I would view living on the streets as being "a danger", certainly to oneself.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #63
73. So, you think the answer, then, is to lock up everyone living on the streets???????
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #73
76. Umm..no.
and I didn't say that.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. It was sure the conclusion that one would draw. After all, being "a danger to yourself" IS grounds
for locking people up.

And depriving them of all rights, I might add.

So, yes... it is actually what you said.

It is time to think through the consequences of our thought processes.
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #81
89. If you are deemed to be a danger to yourself, then yes.
You should be locked up. Why do you fail to see the logic in that?

After all, it stands to reason that, if you are a danger to yourself, and your behavior is unpredictable, then what makes you not a danger to others?

Or, do you believe that those who are a danger to themselves and potentially others should be free to harm themselves and god knows who else?

So, I will turn it around. Maybe you should think through the consequences of your thought processes.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #89
112. And being homeless, because this SOCIETY doesn't care to make sure that ALL have housing,
means that individuals are a Danger To Themselves.

Talk about LOgic.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #81
95. My dear bobbolink...That might be the conclusion You would draw
But before doing so, you'd probably want to see Guyton Post #62 and go chew on his ass..I'm not interested.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #95
113. Strange. The person who said that is using your name.
You might want to look into that.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #113
116. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #55
72. The "Factor At Work" was the Raygun cut the budget for low income housing.
It really doesn't have to do with "hospitals", and the thing to remember is that by repeating that, it continues the destructive myth that most homeless people are "mentally ill", which is NOT the case.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #72
97. What part of
"my research might be faulty" can't you read?


Take your self-righteous "I need to beat someone up" schtick elsewhere.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #97
114. Just get the facts straight. Acknowledge that you were "faulty".
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. Yes, I'm sure you would like that..
Unfortunately, I'm simply going to welcome to my Ignore list

Buh bye..:hippie:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #117
132. HURRAH!
"Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, we're free at last!"
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
87. well then...
let's just blame the ACLU- the cause of all problems in America :sarcasm:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #87
96. and, of course, that is EXACTLY what I'm doing
right?:sarcasm:

I'm a fucking MEMBER of the ACLU!


You and Bobbolink take your "mad" and try to work it off elsewhere..NOT intersted.
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #55
130. Don't mean to nitpick, but the ACLU cannot enact laws
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #130
136. I'm aware of that, but they can have an influence.
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Alameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. Exactly! And they want us scared into obedience...work work work!
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
71. That is not actually correct. Those "hospitals" began being emptied in the 50s, and rightfully so
They could accurately be categorized as snakepits.

What Raygun did was Cut Subsidized Housing from the HUD budget. If you see the difference in spending before and after Raygun, you can see why there was a sudden explosion of homelessness.

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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Yes, lack of affordable housing is _the_ key problem when explaining the high numbers of homeless
people. (This is due not only to the budget changes, as you mentioned, but also a lot of subsidized housing has been demolished over the years and not replaced.)
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Alameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
67. It was during the Ray Gun admistration....
I think they did it to scare us into submission. It's like, "Work and shut up you damn fool, or this will happen to you!"
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #67
88. "Work and shut up you damn fool"...
or "Arbeit macht frei" (please excuse my poor german)
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #28
103. Thank you, Ronald-fucking-Raygun!
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
108. Starts in early childhood and is reinforced year after year
By the time a young adult graduates high school they are fully indoctrinated into the Capitalist mindset. They cannot think critically, cannot imagine a world without Capitalism, cannot conceptualize the evil all around them; just wanna "get mine" and grab all that they can for themselves. Perfect little Capitalist robots.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #108
109. Oh, I see...
You then believe that you, and the rest of DU, for instance, "cannot think critically"?

When you talk about "capitalist" society, you do realize, that you are

talking about western europe as well as Canada and Australia, right?
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #109
118. Everyone's doing it so it must be right?
If everyone was sacrificing humans to appease the rain god or the sun god or whatever, that make it alright wouldn't it? In some places, wars were constantly waged in order to supply a steady stream of prisoners to use as human sacrifices. I don't think that's the right way to run a civilization, yet the Maya and Aztec in South America, Pawnee and Iroquois (American Indian tribes), and much of West African societies sacrificed humans, some only stopped in the 19th century (less than 200 years ago for you math challenged).
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice#Pre-Columbian_Americas)
These civilizations lasted this way for thousands of years. Where are they now?

But I see that I am addressing one of the indoctrinated so I will be unsuccessful in convincing you. I won't shed a tear for your lack of historical knowledge, nor your quaint notions of human civilization.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. Umm..no
and that's not what my post implied.

Try answering the questions before drawing conclusions so erroneous

people will start questioning your "critical thinking skills".

:yoiks:
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #122
128. Au contraire
That is precisely what your post stated. I simply carried your logic to its extreme.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Do seven wrongs? Or a hundred?
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. Uh huh...Sure....Whatever
Which is another way of saying

"Welcome to my Ignore list":hi:
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #108
110. I'm getting a kick out of the posters on here who are being
Edited on Sun Jan-30-11 11:04 AM by LibDemAlways
contrary for the sake of being contrary. Post that more Americans are interested in watching crap on tv than taking it to the streets, and they get all bent of shape and proclaim that they do both. Therefore everyone must be similarly multi-tasking. The other day I posted something about all the suffering out there, and almost immediately I received a response from somebody who told me how good she personally has it. It's all about me!

I agree with you. Schools in America are heavily invested in perpetuating the myth that the USA is superior in every way, that it is a democracy where everyone's voice is heard, and that it is a place of limitless opportunity. Total bullshit. But, since it's easier to just accept what they're told, there are millions who buy into it and who think protesting is positively unAmerican.

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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #110
119. Well said... ... ... n/t
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Not only apathatic..
actively in denial.

I posted a thread about the inequality in America being greater than inequality in Egypt and got a lot of angry responses about how great Americans have it. Weird stuff.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I recced your thread about inequality, FWIW..
There is a great deal of denial even here on DU, most other places it's far worse.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. I don't understand the prevailing attitude..
which seems to be that we have no right to complain about economic injustice until we're all eating out of dumpsters.

FWIW, much of Egypt's inequality derives from the exact same neoliberal policies which our elites have been pushing on us for the past few decades - privatization of the commons, welfare reform and reduced safety nets, free trade, low tax rates for the rich, an export-based economy, etc.

So when we are eventually as impoverished by this bankrupt ideology as the poorest Egyptians have become, I wonder what the excuses for further inaction will be?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. The other day I posted something to the effect that America
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 05:20 PM by LibDemAlways
is in rapid decline, and had a DUer tell me it wasn't so because she came here as an immigrant and America has been good to her.

That strikes me as a Republican attitude. "I've got mine. Too bad for you." I always thought the progressive agenda was inclusive and that Dems saw the value in helping out those in need. Guess that isn't fashionable any more.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
120. Those who fail to profit are somehow inferior or made bad choices
And they must suffer great humiliation and damnation because of their bad choices. That is a key tenet of the Republican mythos.

"I am rich because I worked harder than the other guy."
"God must want me to be rich because I am rolling in dough." --corollary: "God must want you to suffer in poverty."

Self-fulfilling prophesy much?

Anyway, I couldn't agree with you more.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. I don't think we are "apathetic"....I think we don't know how, or are simply unable
to create change.

That being said, have you seen ALL of the organizations dedicated to alleviating or eliminating the homeless problem?..I give to at least four of them.

These didn't come about, nor are they maintained because people don't care.

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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
75. Yes, there are a lot of organizations. HOWEVER, the problem is, they exist soley for charity to
individual people. That can NEVER "solve" the problem.. it only serves to keep it going.

Until We, The People are committed to providing low-income housing for all who need it, homelessness will continue.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. k&r
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. I understand. It's so wrong, no matter where in the world it is. It's so unfair. n/t k&r
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. Absolutely and positively kicked and recced, and adding a resource for people
to better understand the myriad causes of homelessness by a group dedicated to help diminish it... kudos to them.


http://www.cehkc.org/scope/causes.aspx

More at link:

High cost and shortage of housing

It is difficult, if not impossible, for low-income individuals and families to find affordable housing in King County. Less than one percent of apartments in King County are affordable to households earning less than 30 percent of median income ($23,350 for a family of four). The average rent plus utilities for a two-bedroom unit in King County is $985; in Seattle it is $1,165 and in Bellevue it is $1,133. A worker must earn over $17-21 per hour to afford this housing, making it out of reach for many of the areas working poor families. A Supplemental Security Income (SSI) recipient receiving $603 per month can afford monthly rent of less than $200, yet the average rate for a one-bedroom unit is $812 in King County. In a two-week period in May 2007, the King County Housing Authority received over 11,000 applications for their Section 8 Housing Voucher wait list.

See more:
arrowHousing Crisis (PDF)

Poverty, joblessness, education, and literacy

Poverty is closely linked to homelessness. When people lack income to meet all of their needs, they are forced to choose between housing, utilities, transportation, childcare, healthcare, and food. One quarter of the homeless individuals surveyed as part of the One Night Count were employed. Nationally, a similarly high proportion of homeless individuals are employed. However, wages are often not sufficient to ensure housing stability and many people do not have jobs that provide living wages, health insurance, or high job security. Half of homeless adults have incomes of less than $300 per month. A lack of educational opportunities limits access to living-wage jobs. Research has shown the lack of a high school diploma to be associated with homelessness for individuals and families.

Domestic violence

Domestic violence is a factor in homelessness, particularly for women with children. Nationally, studies indicate that up to half of homeless women with children may have experienced domestic violence prior to becoming homeless. Many youth and young adults who are homeless have experienced violence in their homes. In 2007, of the over 7,000 people counted in the One Night Count, more than 1,000 cited domestic violence as a significant factor of their homelessness.

Effects of mental illness and chemical addiction

People who have complex life issues related to mental illness and substance use are seen in higher numbers among homeless persons than the general population. Nationally, between 20 and 25 percent of homeless persons are living with a severe mental illness. While information about addiction is less definitive, alcohol and drug use is also noted among a large number of homeless persons. Untreated mental illness and substance use issues clearly affect housing stability and success.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yet to make housing more affordable, we need the housing market to come down, not recover.
Yes housing costs are crazy, but to do things that make it more reasonable, like getting rid of the mortgage deduction, would really hit the middle class.

Housing bubbles are the worst.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
61. There's already a lot of affordable housing available.....
...especially since a lot of it is just sitting there -- empty. As long as we continue to think in "their" terms, the problems will always seem insurmountable.


- It's time to change the paradigm.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Thank you for this site, and K&R for the OP. n/t
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
65. I have sooo many homeless friends.
If I were to openly let someone stay on my couch, I would be homeless too. Those are the rules of HUD.
SUX
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #65
101. Could you explain more, please?
HUD rules include not letting anyone (I assume who isn't a family member) stay with you?

:(

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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #101
127. Not even family members!!!
It is for our own protection. I know that is true, but yea, if my daughters were homeless, and I let one of them stay with me for more than.....3?...(not sure) days in a row, I can lose my section 8.
It is raining today and I think of some of my friends and really worry.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #127
134. Oh my goodness. :(
I never knew that.

:hug:


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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
77. Thank you for posting the actual facts about the need for low-income housing.
I appreciate your efforts at awareness.

:yourock:
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
Our government is just as corrupted as those in other countries that steal money from the people.
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WingDinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. Did you scold her for causing the economic collapse?
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
49. Yes, he should have
She should pull herself up by her bootstraps, get an education and better herself. OH WAIT! Education= ELITE! Can't go there~
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. It shouldn't happen anywhere...
but it does.

I get very uncomfortable with these arguments, because they come off as this person is better than someone who is suffering in places like Egypt, Somolia, and other impoverished nations. I don't think that's what you're doing here.

The notion is that we're better off spending money on our own (who is more likely to have resources in our wealthy nation), than in another country (where resources are practically nonexistent).
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. There is a reason that "homeless" becomes a crime. People who have lost all
are shuttled out of the areas on busses... Hidden away into certain areas... And treated with much disrespect and an attitude that the homeless became homeless due to drug dependency and/ or mental disorders. In many places, they are making it illegal to park and sleep in one's car (the fortunate one's to still have a car).
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
31. Ever see a film called "The Fisher King"?
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. I saw a homeless man having a seizure on the ground
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 12:01 PM by bear425
yesterday, as I was driving. I called 911 immediately, but I saw a bicycler just drive past him like he was invisible. There were many other drivers along this busy street. Don't know if I was the only caller to 911, but it was sad to see. The 911 operator said he probably just fell off the bus bench. I said, that may be true, but he was definitely having a small seizure, too. She sounded callous and as if this is a normal everyday occurence. I heard the ambulance coming as I reached my destination.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. The poor ARE invisible
It's part of the mindset that is taught to everyone in this culture.

"You own your situation. Unlimited opportunities are available to change your situation if you aren't afraid to work. Successful people are the ones you want to be with. Being poor is contagious- stay away from it if you don't want to end up like them..."

If only the myth were the reality...I might be able to support it. Wait, no. I'm not an asshole, no matter how much I try.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. You should have stuck around to see how the medics treated him.
It probably would have been an eye opener.

When I worked at a shelter and had to call for medics I was always prepared to witness all kinds of unprofessional behavior. Anything from talking among themselves about how bad the homeless smelled to laughing at what was wrong with them, and then treating them callously.

Not saying all medics would be this heartless. But more often than not this was the kind of treatment I witnessed all the time.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
78. Thank you for speaking the truth. Many "helpers" are bullies.
:(
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. I agree
yes, it's not Egypt, but there is a substantial portion of Americans as badly off. No food, no shelter, some of whom are veterans, etc.

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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Even Here In Florida... All Year Around, There Is One Woman I See
ALL THE TIME walking with her head covering her to keep out the sun and/or help her during the cold weather we've been having. She DOES have mental problems because many of us have tried to help her, but there is NO WHERE that will keep her! A few days here or there from what I understand, and I'm sure I don't have all the info... but this is just in my small neighborhood.

I can't imagine how many many others there are! JUST SICKENING!

Are we next??
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. "Are we next??"
Of course we are- the way most well-off working people view the poor is the same way the uber-rich view anyone but their caste: They don't see them at all.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Supposedly if we grow food in our gardens, everything will be peachy.
:sarcasm: It's the "let them eat cake" of the 21st century.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Don't remind me :p
The GMO alfalfa is going to spread like wildfire...the newest plague.

I have to admit I laughed when this became a meme. It's only when they want to price us out of existence that taking your food into your own hands yourself becomes cool :evilgrin:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. AND What A Very Very Scary Prospect!!! n/t
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
79. .
:applause:

:yourock:
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. homeless everywhere in Los Angeles. Homeless capital I think
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Everyone should read "The Soloist" by Steve Lopez. A no nonsense
look at Skid Row in LA and how few people receive any kind of social services. Lopez took Villaraigosa there, and he was shocked by what he saw. That was the part of the book that really struck me - that the Mayor is so clueless about the homeless problem in his own city.
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #27
115. Driving thru LA's skid row is an amazing experience - folks lying on the sidewalk, legs swollen
open sores, half naked, staggering back and forth,

Life in one of the wealthiest cities in the world. Home of Hollywood!
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BobbyBoring Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
51. 96,000
Is the number I heard recently. That's equal to the population of about 40% of mid size cities in America. We have tent cities all over the place. Hoovervilles are everywhere. Our media, being as complicit as it is never mentions this fact~
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
40. Oh, hush, and just get ready for the Reagan Centennial!
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. However, Hosni gets to ride in style on our dime.
Cut SS, Medicare and other social safety nets but, not THIS kind of WASTE. :mad:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x301233
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R
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Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. Poor people of Egypt AND the US are suffering through homelessness,
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 05:50 PM by Obamanaut
unemployment, hunger, no money for Rx - and the US continues to send foreign aid dollars which are scarfed up by the ruling despots rather than benefiting those who need it.

Time to review ALL foreign aid gifts - money, military equipment, everything.

edited to add this link to DU thread about theft in the billions. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=299043&mesg_id=299043
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. I was driving around Detroit in Santa's Sleigh from the Thanksgiving Parade...
Long story, but the point is...

There are two worlds in America. One world watches the Thanksgiving parade from the comfort of their houses. The other world dies slowly in the street, un-helped, despised, criminalized, and blamed for the systemic failures that caused their strife. The people in control do not want you to know that Santa's sleigh drives past a whole different world than they will show you on TV. Otherwise you would have no option but to take action to remedy the systemic faults in our economic system. You can't see the faces of children as they watch Santa's sleigh drive past through the broken windows of a broken home, without knowing that action needs to be taken.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kick,kick,kick &recommended!
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. But we don't have 15% of our population living like that
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 06:30 PM by Recursion
and another 25% living in lean-to shacks that they propped up out of corrugated tin on the side of a hill. If you've seen the third world you'll understand what people mean when they say poverty in America is a different animal completely from poverty in the third world.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. So?
What percentage of the population "living like that" are you fine with?

Can we only complain when the US gets all the way to third world status or may we point out the slide in living standards before it gets to that point?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I didn't say I'm "fine with" anybody living like that
so I have no idea why you asked that, since I didn't come close to saying I was "fine with" it.

Can we only complain when the US gets all the way to third world status or may we point out the slide in living standards before it gets to that point?

Why on earth would you think that?
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Your dismissive attitude to the poor in America, as evidenced by what you wrote..
"poverty in America is a different animal completely from poverty in the third world".

Grinding poverty is grinding poverty is grinding poverty, it doesn't matter where it is.

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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Yes, it really, really does matter
That's not dismissive. It's the difference in having cholera and not having cholera.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. So you think there is some essential difference between living under a bridge in Egypt..
And living under a bridge in the land of the free?

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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Yes, tons of differences
Including, but not limited to:

1) The fact that there's not a 15% block of the population living like you, including all of your family

2) The fact that there are social services available for you

3) The fact that your city as a whole has functioning sewage and sanitation which, again, keeps you much safer from things like cholera and dysentery

4) The fact that it is actually possible for you to end up with a better life than you currently have
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Go and talk to the woman under the bridge in the winter..
I'm sure she's proud to be an American.

There are plenty of homeless families in the land of the free.

You have to have an address to get many social services, homeless implies a certain lack of an address.

Sewage which you have no access to, get busted for public urination or defecation and you're off to the hoosegow..

But at least it's three hots and a cot, eh?

It's always *possible* to end up with a better life, even in Egypt.

At least in Egypt they have reason for poor homeless people, they've been under a brutal dictator for decades, we don't have that excuse.





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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Well, I've been to Cairo (and Lagos, which is more what I was thinking of)
And I have no compunction saying that poverty in the US is not at all like poverty in the third world.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #39
80. Really? Are you aware that the number of people getting TB in shelters is 11-14 TIMES the number of
HOUSeD people getting TB?

Are you fine with that, because it isn't cholera?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Again with the pretending i'm "fine with" any of this
Edited on Sat Jan-29-11 11:45 PM by Recursion
Making up shit I didn't say doesn't get us anywhere.

And we're talking about people living in rivers of untreated urine and fecal matter, thousands of them, in big sections of cities and developing cholera and dysentery from them. Plenty of people in Egypt get TB, too...
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. I gave you facts, and you return with disdain.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. You made up some ridiculous story about me being "fine with" that
So I don't see the point in continuing.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Continue or don't continue... just understand the facts.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. Hard to be homeless in the cold
I've been saying this for a long time. Misery caused by corporatism, so unnecessary.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Hard enough when it's not cold..
Unrelenting misery when the thermometer drops.

Then it starts to rain which turns to sleet and finally ice.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #47
86. Indeed. Homeless people die of heat exhaustion, too.
Its easy to forget about that part.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
50. Are you saying that we shouldn't care about Egypt because of the homeless
here in America? We SHOULD care about Egypt because of the homeless here in America! Egyptians are showing us that we don't have to sit by while the gap between rich and poor grows wider and wider. We can act if they refuse to listen to us. Where are OUR mass marches and protests for justice?
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I was just relating a direct experience that I had..
One that made me stop and think for a little while.

Then I wrote down a little bit of my thoughts.

There is the old saying about charity starting at home.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. The homeless need (and want) a lot more than charity
they need government action on jobs, health care, public housing, mental health...the GOP always wants to leave the poor and homeless to public charities, but the public is stretched thin these days (ask any food bank). Tax the rich, end the wars, and impose penalties on those who outsource!
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. It's just a saying that implies you do for those closest to you first..
I'd rather give some Americans a hand up than Hosni Mubarak a Gulfstream jet to fly around in.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. +1000% --
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
57. Fumesucker, DU never disappoints. No matter what you post, there
are those out there who are anxious to refute it.

I agree with you. We have abject poverty and hopelessness here too. I'm confident the guy living on the sidewalk on skid row in Los Angeles is no better off than his Egyptian counterpart.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
58. K&R
The gun and cheeseburger ethic

Comfortable as we have been in our plenitude, and confident as we have been in our providence -- or perhaps because of these things -- we Americans are now at the most critical and terrible moral and ethical juncture in our history. Do we care at all about anybody but ourselves? Is the reader, who has never met Ebony, Lian, Kirky or Dennis, responsible for accommodating any kind of future for them? Are we responsible that they be fed adequately full well knowing that the world has far too many babies anyway?

Not many Americans would eat a cheeseburger in front of a starving African child. But is it OK to eat the cheeseburger behind the child's back, out of sight of the child? How far must we get from the starving child to make it OK? What if we worked very hard to buy that cheeseburger? Does hard work justify everything? What is our responsibility? Or are we just helpless in the face of such things?

That we look to other people, politicians, police, and supposed experts to solve our problems demonstrates that we have learned to be helpless -- learned helplessness. None of us is helpless. The fact is that at any given moment in any given day, we can do something to help eliminate world misery and disparity. As any Third World priest can tell you, this is done mostly face to face, people helping people one at a time. But America's strictly enforced and fearful class lines prevent us from even associating with those we can actively help. The single mother, the felon just released from prison, the Mexican with four kids who empties your office waste basket at night.

By Joe Bageant, http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2008/02/nine-billion-li.html">Nine Billion Little Feet
February 2008
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
59. Homeless are "disappeared" in America -- how often has even Obama mentioned homeless????
Used to be that our politicians spoke about the suffering of others --

now -- millionaries and multi-millionaires in Congress seem more concerned

with issues effecting wealthy/corproate elites!

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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. So true. They like to paint the uber wealthy as the "true victims" in America
while the homeless and unemployed are portrayed as lazy villains who feel entitled to government handouts. The recent tax cuts for millionaires in exchange for scraps for the unemployed showed exactly where our government's priorities lie.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
129. +1000 Million
True evil: how successful the wealthy have become at weaving that particular narrative and turning it into "the truth."

The Emperor Has No Clothes. All you need do is open your eyes, America.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #59
133. Today on Jesse Jackson's Keep Hope Alive, he had on a columnist who said that this is only the 2nd
time since Truman that a president has not mentioned poverty in his SOTU.

Yet, I was constantly berated in '08 for saying that Obama didn't care about poverty.

Go figure.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
64. Yes. And neither political party stands up for the very poor and homeless.
How can Republicans claim to be "Christian" and care so little about those among us who have the least?

That just baffles me.

Everyone deserves to have an apartment or a home or at least a safe room in which to sleep and eat and store things.

If someone really is too frightened to live inside the walls of a building, so be it. But everyone should have the choice. Shelter, food and basic clothing are essential. No one should be without them. There is something seriously flawed in our economy when some people have I-phones and cars and others live under bridges and eat from trash cans.
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RedRoses323 Donating Member (175 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #64
107. +100,000
"How can Republicans claim to be "Christian" and care so little about those among us who have the least?"

"That just baffles me."

So true - it pisses me off!!

:toast:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-11 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #107
135. I love your Angelou quote. That is really great.
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johnlucas Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
90. OK so what did you do to help her?
You have a motorcycle & an insulated waterproof windproof riding suit that protects against the elements.
You didn't offer to buy her something like that to protect against the wet & cold???

PLEASE don't tell me you just had this conversation with her & left it at that.
I know you alone can't solve ALL the problems but at least you could have helped in making her life a little more bearable.
It's not enough to just say "Tsk tsk. what a shame, what a shame."
John Lucas
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #90
102. My motorcycle is thirty one years old and has 145,000 miles on it..
The main reason I have the riding suit is because I have no other vehicle.

My home is a camper and I haven't had a job in over three years now, I'm getting by doing odd jobs, I even trade work for my wifi connection with which I'm posting this message on my one luxury, my computer I put together out of scrap parts.

If I had something to give I'd do it but I'm about a half a step behind the woman I met on the way to living under the bridge with her.

She actually asked me for a cigarette but I don't smoke.

It was for me kind of a "I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet." moment..






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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
91. I'm gonna repeat this George Carlin quote until I'm blue in the face:
"The rich make all of the money, pay none of the taxes. The middle class pays all the taxes, does all the work. And the poor are there, just to scare the shit out of the middle class! Keep them showing up at those JOBS!!!!"
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #91
104. Exactly, Carlin was a prophet of sorts.. n/t
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
93. So how many contribute to actually housing the homeless?
Personally I don't have any evidence that protesting changes much of anything.

I understand that if you're living in HUD housing, you can't take someone in without potentially losing your own home.

What about the rest of you?

I'd rather not go into elaborate detail about my own situation, because it may not be 1000% legal, but in the last six months I contributed to an under-$200 home for someone who would otherwise be homeless. Part of the benefit for us is the huge greenhouse he built. Someone else I know regularly employs him when he needs a gofer/laborer.

And if I do get busted, he has to move out. The odds of my head getting smashed in are gigantically smaller than they would be if I were out protesting.

If you're worried about what we'll do after things collapse, maybe you should be developing your skills now.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #93
105. Your points are well taken, thanks for sharing your perspective and for your efforts.. n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
94. K&R Push for media reform.
Every issue we now face is because the media is now controlled by a few with interests that will do nothing but harm us.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
106. There are quite a few small shelters in our area and they're all full.
Last fall one of them put out a call for donations of tents. It's obscene that we send off billions in foreign aid when our own people are suffering.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
111. K&R.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
125. too late to rec, but a belated, invisible K&R anyway
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