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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-11-13 02:22 AM
Original message
Snowden and the ACLU
Romero of the ACLU said that the ACLU does not know enough about Snowden to know if it would take him on as a client. However, the ACLU is, on behalf of existing clients, grateful for Snowden's revelations.

Apparently, Snowden's revelations have enabled to the ACLU to re-file six lawsuits. The lawsuits were previously dismissed for lack of standing to sue because the ACLU could not prove that its clients had been surveilled. Now, thanks to Snowden, they can prove it.

Ordinarily, if you file a lawsuit reasonably believing you have been damaged in some way, you can find out for sure by conducting discovery. You ask "the other side" questions to be answered under pains and penalties of perjury; and you ask them to produce documents in their control.

However, whenever you sue the federal government anymore, the response to discovery requests is likely to be stonewalling, citing "national security." Sometimes that response is accurate and sometimes its merely convenient.

Anyway, Romero believes that Snowden has solved the standing problem of six plaintiffs represented by the ACLU.

Speaking of the panel, most of them said that Snowden is a criminal, but that we needed to have a national conversation about the Fourth Amendment. Catch 22, though. If many people are not aware that something exists, how on earth would a national conversation about that something begin?

Sure, some on the left have claimed they've known for years, but that is only some on the left. And, there's suspecting and then there's knowing. And there's suspicion by a sector often dismissed as conspiracy theorists, and then's there's uncontrovertible evidence that gets widespread publicity.

So, please stop dismissing or diminishing the importance of what Snowden has given up his life as he knew it--and maybe soon, his life--to do.

Also, please get back to me after you do something useful to society that requires that much personal sacrifice, while also putting you at risk for torture (Bradley Manning), life imprisonment and/or the death penalty.

Manning has already received a prize. Kirakiou has been advising Snowden from Loreto prison not to make the same mistakes as Kiriakou did. Ellsberg has said that he would have left the country too, if the situation and climate when he released the Pentagon Papers were the same as they are today.

If a Republican were in office, Manning, Kirakiou and Snowden would be heroes to about half the US population. Instead, the left and the extreme right are united, as the left trades principle for party. Again.

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-11-13 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. They are not really "the left". nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-12-13 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I wonder why?
Edited on Mon Aug-12-13 01:05 AM by No Elephants
The professional left and the right (by which I mean the politicians, not the pundits) have united in economic policy, to the detriment of the 99%, which is a very bad thing. They are also becoming closer and closer on social issues, which is a mixed thing, given that no one is advocating the leftist position anymore, but the rightist position is softening.

Meanwhile, though, as the political positions get closer, the pols and the pundits have both ratcheted up the red team v. blue team divisiveness to unprecedented levels.

The "divide and conquer" crap, intended or not, is a win win for the PTB and a no win for the 99%.

If the 99% ever want to win diddly economically, they had damned well better find a way to come together on economics against the 1%. And I don't mean come together by joining the 1% in their "blessed" union on economic matters.

That is going to mean shedding blind party loyalties on both sides and acting in their own economic interests.

Can OWS and Taxed Enough Already ever find common ground? If not, the total economic screwing of the 99% is going to continue.

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-12-13 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Oops. I guess I ADD'd it from Snowden to fiscal policy without skipping a beat.
Obama was saying the other day that Snowden has been charged with three felonies and is not a patriot.

The media loves calling Snowden a spy, without being any more specific than that. Omigosh, it's cold war spy v. spy--deja vue all over again. Bad spy, bad spy.

As far as we know though, the only spying that Snowden has ever done did was on behalf of the U.S. government, via private contractor, Booz. And, because he did not think that the USG should spy on millions of USians without their knowledge, he disclosed that. And, because he has taken a lesson from the treatment of recent whistleblowers in the US (Drake, Kiriakou, Manning), he left the country. Therefore, the USG has charged him with 3 felonies.

Coincidentally, I just read this elsewhere:

This is the press, an irresponsible press. It will make the criminal look like hes the victim and make the victim look like hes the criminal. If you arent careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.

Malcolm X (nee, Malcolm Little, aka, anothe one murdered back in the day).

Medgar Evers - shot, June 12, 1963

Malcolm X -shot, February 1, 1965

John F. Kennedy - shot, November 22, 1965

Martin L. King, Jr. - shot, April 4, 1968

Robert F. Kennedy - shot - June 6, 1968

Allison B. Krause-shot, May 4, 1970

Jeffrey Glenn Miller-shot, May 4, 1970

Sandra Lee Scheuer - shot, May 4, 1970

Willam K. Shroeder-shot, May 4, 1970


Hmmm. Maybe my ADD is smarter than my conscious mind?
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