The Duggars suffer a miscarriage of their 20th child

[Missy Vixen]

Evidently, this is breaking news...

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20552173,00.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WolverineDG]

6. wow that was fast

a new low for DU---dancing on the grave of a miscarried child.

dg

[MADem]

7. I don't think it's that--it's commenting on the irresponsibility of the parents.

There comes a point in time when enough is, indeed, enough. Those parents enjoy being a freak show.

[liberalhistorian]

18. That doesn't mean they don't feel heartache, pain and grief

at the loss of a child of theirs, whether born or not. Their irresponsibility does not negate their grief and pain and it's disgusting to dance on this baby's grave.

[MADem]

89. Well, the deleted message didn't mock their grief or pain, nor did it

"dance on the baby's grave." It didn't say a single thing about ANY of those topics, and it's grossly unfair of you to suggest, absent the original reference, that it said anything along those lines.

I was not the poster of said deleted message, but I defend the poster's right to say what he or she said. The message was more of a generic reference to the religious beliefs of the couple, and I didn't think it said anything that anyone--save someone extrapolating out of very thin air--could take as dancing on a baby's grave, at all. Very tacky of you to use that phrase.

When people like the Duggars make a point out of espousing their religious views on network television, to an insufferable degree, and boast about their successes as coming "from God," (as opposed to reality TV producers), it's only natural and indeed LOGICAL to ask if the crappy stuff in life comes from the same place.

That's all the deleted message suggested, as far as I could see.

I think the ALERT button was misused in this instance--that poster's speech was uncomfortable, but not at all hateful. It didn't reference any "dead baby" directly. It did not laugh at, mock, or otherwise deride anyone's "grief" or "pain" or "heartache." It was a fair comment, IMO.

[kenfrequed]

2. unrec

unrec for adding media fuel to the conservative-insane Quiverful movement.

[Mz Pip]

3. I highly doubt

that the Duggars give a rat's ass about what the members of DU have to say about them and their obsessive need to breed.

[Missy Vixen]

5. Thanks for the unrec

After all, taxpayers continue to foot the bill for the Duggar family.

Let's see how many more children they're interested in having if they were actually footing the bill themselves.

[liberalhistorian]

19. How are taxpayers footing the bill for them?

From what I understand (and I could be wrong) they have their own income in addition to what they receive from the reality show; I think they have real estate investments.

[Angry Dragon]

29. personal tax deductions on tax filing

2011 ....... $3700 x 19 = $70,300

[MedicalAdmin]

31. Plus they have incorporated their home, other properties and family

as a tax exempt church.

Thus no property tax and no tax on income.

And don't forget their religious foundation that teaches other quiverful nuts how to run the same scam. It's like a fungus or cancer or something.

So yah - they is taking a free ride like any good grifter.

[No Elephants]

112. Okay, now that IS grifting.

[No Elephants]

111. By that reasoning, taxpayers are footing the bill for every minor in the U.S.

whose parents or guardians are availing themselves of the deductions to which the law entitles them.

[blueamy66]

119. How many parents in the US have 19 friggin' kids?

come on.....

[joeglow3]

135. Ahhh, so you are anti-choice

Thanks for letting us know.

[LaydeeBug]

21. I actually read that they are not subsidized...not that I mind assistance

I'm glad it's there for anyone in need, and that includes the Duggars.

But...http://www.theblaze.com/stories/we-are-just-so-grateful-duggar-family-announces-theyre-expecting-20th-child/

Oh, here's teh google:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=duggar+family+government+assistance&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[ThomThom]

28. it is more than just the costs of daily living and who pays

Their 19 children will take jobs in the future, seats in our colleges, beds in hospitals and retirement homes. They are using resources well beyond what one family should use even if they are home schooled. What about the food they are using that others will have none? What about the other children in the family that have to take care of their siblings and on and on. These people are being unfair to the rest of us and their other children. They are a lot like Trump, just want more than their 15 minutes.

[ParkieDem]

147. Big deal.

They may also have good, productive jobs, spend money, buy houses, buy cars, pay taxes, etc.

I think they're batshit crazy, but there's no law against that, and I don't think it's appropriate to judge whether these kids will be a drag on society (just like it's despicable for the right wing to disparage large immigrant families for being a "drain" on public services). My grandfather was one of 9 kids, and I think he and his siblings were a net benefit to society.

[Scairp]

167. College?

I don't see too many of these kids going to college, especially the girls. Outside influences of the evil world and all that, dontcha know. They are going to try and keep them at home for as long as possible because they need the older ones to raise the youngest ones. They have like 8 kids under age 10 and bunch of teenagers (which sounds like a total nightmare to me). One son is married off and has begun his own breeding program, but my guess is that we won't be seeing any of those girls getting married and leaving home for years to come. I think the little ones will have a better chance at getting a proper education because by the time they are 16-18 the parents will be in their 60's and not as able to control what they do. 10 more years will tell the story. Plus that last one is developmentally disabled due to her being born a micro-preemie. She will need someone to care for her for life. My guess is that naturally one of the older kids will get that assignment. Not that they shouldn't, but as someone who has one late in life child, I worry very much I won't see her well into her 20's at the very least so that one of her older sisters doesn't have to do the job. I want to do it with my husband. I have a pact with my stepsister and best friend that we will both live into our 90's and die on the same day. If so, my youngest will be giving me grandchildren I will get to see grow up. Fingers crossed.

As for Mrs. Duggar, she blamed a miscarriage 20 years ago on hormonal birth control, giving that as the reason that they stopped using all birth control. Which begs a couple of questions; why not use non-hormonal birth control and what are they blaming this one on (funeral, really? they are weird)? This will be her last pregnancy, I'm sure of it. Women who have large numbers of pregnancies/children often start menopause early. She's a bit young, about 5 years too young, but I think this was her last hurrah, so to speak. They must have been going at it like a couple of rabbits over the past year to catch an egg for fertilization cause she doesn't have many left. It was a total fluke, and clearly her body just couldn't take one more pregnancy. She is just as addicted to having kids as Nadya Suleman. I'm glad they can support their children, unlike Ms. Suleman, but they are helped greatly by the enormous tax breaks they get by declaring their home and it's land a church and church property. Plus what, at least 16-17 deductions. I think at least one or two of the other kids are now 18, but I could be wrong about being able to claim them. If they provide total financial support, can they still claim those kids even after they turn 18? I can't recall. I'm really glad this "quiverfull" movement is very, very small otherwise we'd be seeing more of these very, very large families.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. They aren't in need

The Gosselins got $65,000 per episode for their show. I would imagine the Duggars are paid similarly.

[blueamy66]

67. You betcha.

My co-worker went on vacation to Scotland a few months ago and guess who was on the plane with him?

Can't imagine the airfare for 21 people to Scotland.

:eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Cheapest rate I could find was $26,000

And it's 23 people if they add the daughter in law and grandma.

[blueamy66]

94. holy crap

I would have to kill myself!

on edit: don't we have to add the 2 grandchildren?

[proud2BlibKansan]

102. Yes and they have a cousin that hangs out with them too

That's 3 more. We're approaching $30,000 now.

[blueamy66]

118. Is the cousin named Amy?

Yes, I've watched the show. I admit it.

But she wears jeans and is a harlot, no? :-)

[No Elephants]

113. If they incorporated their home as a church, they are very much subsidized.

[cbdo2007]

4. Sorry for them. Even with that many other kids I'm sure this is hard for them.

I do hope they stop trying though.

[MADem]

8. They make the older kids do much of the child care work.

I wonder if some of them might opt for a childless lifestyle, having had enough of that chore growing up.

[cbdo2007]

10. Yeah....so?

That should somehow make it easier on them to have a miscarriage?? Did you respond to the wrong post again??

[MADem]

13. Did I say that? No.

I said they make their kids do most of the child rearing. That's all I said.

Get over yourself.

[cbdo2007]

16. I'm just wondering what that had to do with my post....you might have

well have posted that they think there is a spacecraft next to the planet Mercury.

[MADem]

88. Just making an observation. One that got you a bit bent out of shape, apparently. NT

[Obamanaut]

14. That is not uncommon in large families, nor is it a new phenomenon. Older

children have assisted in the rearing of younger siblings for a very long time.

Some families where a parent is missing due to death, divorce, or abandonment have no choice but to share.

[MADem]

91. Yes, I'm familiar with the practice. nt

[tabatha]

9. Sorry to be cruel, but I suspected it may happen.

[kestrel91316]

11. Oh, how tragic. But maybe Gawd thought it wouldn't have a very good quality

of life with that freak show for a family. Guess he's been sleeping on the job for a few years, but whatever......

[RevStPatrick]

12. That's too bad...

My condolences.

[TwilightGardener]

15. That is sad--a loss is a loss, no matter how many kids they have.

Sympathies to them, even though I do not think much of their lifestyle.

[SoCalDem]

17. Apparently Gawd is trying to tell them that it's time to STOP

but it makes for good teevee viewing I guess:(

[malaise]

20. The only thing breaking here is this woman's

overused uterus.

Seriously she really out to tie those tubes now.

[styersc]

23. Yeah. Fuck choice.

[malaise]

25. She can do what the hell she wants

but spare me the breaking news.
This time it's a miscarriage - next time she may lose her life and her children will end up bringing up all those children. Thoughtless and irresponsible best describes them.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

40. They'll be bringing up those children anyway

In addition to the zillion kids they will all have. Stupid is as stupid does.

[riderinthestorm]

54. Her children already bring up the children. She turns over the new baby to the next oldest girl to

raise. That girl sleeps with the baby, takes care of all its needs (and theoretically also goes to school).

The older girls do ALL of the childraising, not Mrs. Duggar. She's just the breeder matriarch.

[Le Taz Hot]

97. Funny how quickly that choice thing

gets thrown under the bus when it's a conservative, religious woman's choice. THANK you.

[No Elephants]

109. Because a post on a message board saying what she "ought" to do deprives her of

choice in the real world?

Please.

[Gormy Cuss]

128. +1

There's a huge difference between disparaging the choices of TV stars and legislating against choice.

Similarly, it's vastly different to state in a general way that large biological families are irresponsible than it is to tell a random person who's made that choice that s/he's irresponsible. The former is a matter of opinion on policy, the latter is out of the bounds of accepting freedom to choose.

[snooper2]

126. You can only pull so many 8000 lb loads with a Chevy Luv

before the rear end implodes into 287 pieces :)

[hamsterjill]

127. Your post cracked me up!!!

Yours is the best one I've read yet!!! Great job!!!

[sibelian]

129. Not so much. More "fuck choosing stupid".

See the difference?

[The Straight Story]

22. Well, there is one woman people are happy to complain about when it comes to personal choice

If she had 20 abortions and someone complained about that (while saying they were for her choice) hell would rain down.

It's no one's business. If you don't want to have kids - don't. Apparently, she does want to have them.

[SomethingFishy]

37. You post some of the best shit on DU...

However.. in this case I really have to wonder if she really wanted all those kids. I have asked countless mothers, and I could not find a single woman who has been through a pregnancy if they would willing to do it for 15 years straight. I could not find one.. single.. woman. Most of them laughed at me when I asked. Some called it insane. But not one said they would do it willingly.

[Zanzoobar]

45. But until recent history, it was fairly common.

One of the lessons of history is to try to encapsulate the subject in time. It's important.

[cyglet]

77. It was fairly necessary

we didn't have the treatments for diseases we have now, so it was common for parents to lose kids. So they had a ton.

[CatWoman]

64. hell

having just one sent me over the fucking edge :)

[handmade34]

78. a miscarriage is sorrowful

that said, there are some women that would do it willingly... I would have if I didn't have an awareness about responsibility to the community and Earth... I LOVED being pregnant and birthing children and I love the children I do have... endlessly...

our own limited experiences should not dictate how others feel and react....

[SomethingFishy]

83. Believe me I know...

My second wife had 6 miscarriages before we finally gave up and adopted her brothers son(he had passed away from Muscular Dystrophy.) I have two kids from my first marriage but she wanted one of her own. We went through some rough times.

I don't know... something bugs me about this family. But Straight Story is right, it's not up to me, they want to have 20 kids be my guest, as long as I'm not footing the bill.

[The Straight Story]

81. Ever talked to any Amish women?

And you may wonder if she wanted them, but in the end she made the choice to do so - not me or you.

I am not saying it is a choice I would make :) although I do have 5 kids (albeit via three different moms) and I can say labor was not that hard on me ;) although I did almost lose two women I loved during their pregnancies.

[SomethingFishy]

82. Nope never had the opportunity to speak to the Amish..

and you are right about it's not up to me. I have 3 of my own, 2 from my first wife and I adopted my 2nd wife's nephew. That was more than enough for me. I guess if you 20 kids knock yourself out. Long as I don't have to clean up after them :)

[countryjake]

95. In what part of the Amish Community does reproducing nonstop exist?

You might find a family with over ten kids, but that would not be the norm in most of the Amish groups throughout the country and I'd be willing to bet that unusual amount of children was due to most of the older kids being female, so the parents kept trying for a male. Even fifty years ago, six or eight children were considered "enough" and I knew Old Order women who even scoffed and groaned back then, at the old Catholic practice of encouraging their members to "produce" twelve kids. Don't kid yourself that Amish women don't know how to "limit" the number of babies in their families, blessings or not. I would imagine that if any could sit in front of a tv and observe this freak show disguised as reality, they'd have a thing or two to say about producing twenty children, same as many here on DU have, especially on the fact that the Duggars choose to do it in front of a national audience.

[styersc]

44. agreed

[Crunchy Frog]

65. I believe in choice. That doesn't mean I agree with everyone's choices

or that I won't express my opinions about them.

And for God's sake, they've made their lives and their choices into a TV reality show. So yes, their choices are other people's business as far as talking about them or agreeing or disagreeing with them.

Nobody can stop them from continuing to try to have babies, but people have every right to criticize them for it. And when that lady with 20 abortions gets her own reality show about it, people will be free to criticize her choices too.

[MADem]

92. Well, if hell can rain down on one circumstance, hell can rain down on others.

Seriously--personal choice is fine, but there's also an issue of judgment, here. I would think that most people would aver that abortion as a first line method of birth control is just not "smart." Never mind any moral issue--put that to the side, don't even let it enter the equation--simply as a medical decision, that wouldn't be regarded as the optimal way to prevent pregnancy.

By the same token, 20 children is a large number, particularly if they are all biological. If the family had 20 or even 40 children as a consequence of adoption or fostering, that would be a very different circumstance.

The reason this is "someone's business" is because this family puts themselves out there, on television. They take many thousands of dollars per episode to broadcast their lives and their religious viewpoints--and specifically their religious viewpoints with regard to a "reproduction imperative"-- into the homes of Americans. If they were "private citizens," that would be one thing, but they aren't--they are public figures, living their lives on a public stage, making money hand over fist from so doing, espousing views about reproduction that are at odds with the prevailing views in society today. Because of this, they make themselves available for the comments and opinions of others. They can't preach a viewpoint without expecting a bit of counterpoint from their audience.

At the end of the day, it is indeed up to them what they do. So long as they are on television, though, and enriching themselves as a direct result of their choices, they can't expect to operate in an "opinion free zone" about their behavior. That's the whole idea behind Reality Television, anyway--to get people talking about what they see on the screen.

[countryjake]

99. Exactly! They choose to promote their lifestyle & their religion...

on national television, they surely must be aware that also entails all of the criticism and negative spotlight that every other tv personality has to deal with. I only hope that this recent loss doesn't give them a boost in ratings and encourage even more seasons.

[Le Taz Hot]

98. Why do so many so-called "liberals" on DU

not get this? Remember the Brouhaha I inadvertantly started when she announced she was pregnant with her 20th child? Two posts: "Is a woman's right to chooise absolute and uncondictional" and most people responded in the affirmative. RIGHT NEXT TO IT: "If it is considered none of our business if a woman gets an abortion, why is it our business when she has 20 children?" Probably 90% of the responsants were outraged and started throwing up "the environment," "they don't take care of their children," "they're tax-exempt," etc., never seeing the underlying argument. My particular favorite was when our so-called "liberal" DUers advocated forced sterilization for her. And many AGREED!

I'm glad someone else sees this for what it is -- NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

[countryjake]

104. TLC made it our business when they showed their very first "special"...

of the Duggar woman delivering her 12th or 13th child. Those pre-series specials were about nothing else but that this family had decided to build their own little army of god's soldiers, to promote such a philosophy on national television, and to expose their home and daily life to the millions of prying eyes who subscribe to cable tv.

For a forty-five year old female who has already had her body damaged by that nineteenth baby, when she experienced pre-eclampsia and both she and the fetus were at risk of dying, it is extremely foolhardy for anyone NOT to advise this woman to quit while she's ahead. And the business endeavor that they have undertaken with their tv series has certainly opened the door to any and all criticisms they may receive, just like any other television celebrity personality. Having babies for ratings has made it everyone's business, at least for their TLC viewers. I expect to see this recent Duggar loss reported on national news this morning, so how is it NOT our business?

[Le Taz Hot]

106. TLC airing this program has nothing

to do with a woman's right to choose. Another extraneous argument filed right alongside, "overpopulation," "doesn't take care of her kids," "religious zealots," etc. The argument is basic: Does a woman have the sovereign rights over her own body or doesn't she?" If she does, then her decision is none of our business.

[countryjake]

134. That would be true, if the woman that we are discussing, herself, believed that...

any woman truly does have sovereign rights over her own body, but sadly, this Duggar woman does not.

Her beliefs dictate that she turn her body over, fully, to her god, and she is supposed to "trust" and have complete "faith" that any decisions about the creation of everlasting souls will be made by that god.

Unfortunately, damage to her own body, the real dangers she faces by continued child-bearing, and the actual risk of sudden death must also fall under that same "faith" and "trust"...not her "choice", in any way, because if she decided to tell ole Jim Bob to take a hike next time he felt a little soul rising from his mighty loins, she would be defying her very religion, denying her function in life, considered to be turning away from the will of her lord, and burn in hellfires for eternity.

There is nothing in such a fundamentalist teaching that gives women sovereignty over anything, at all.

[LanternWaste]

158. I chose not to accept their business...

"TLC made it our business when they showed..."
I chose not to accept their business...

"so how is it NOT our business?"
By choosing not to accept it. :shrug:

Your choice of course to allow this family, this tragedy and this person more consideration than they warrant, but no one forced it on you, and implying so makes you look like a stooge of the networks.

[Bunny]

105. And why do you keep insisting that us 'liberals' don't get it?

You are the one that doesn't get it. Last I heard, no one here at DU was organizing a bus tour to Arkansas (or wherever the hell these people live) to march on the Duggar's home and demand that legislation be passed to prohibit them from reproducing again. We are not trying to stop their right to choose the size of their family. We are expressing our disgust with them for having so many children, for many reasons that we consider wrong. As far as I know, there's nothing wrong with that - being liberal doesn't mean that you can't criticize anything. So stop saying that we don't get it, or that we don't agree with Choice when it doesn't suit us. You are deliberately mischaracterizing our opinion, please stop doing that.

[Le Taz Hot]

108. I put "liberals" in quotes because most on DU who

self-describe themselves as liberals have no clue as to what it really is. The term "neo-liberals" or "third-way liberals" are often used to describe these types.

It is the neo-liberals who are changing the argument. Does a woman has a right to choose? If the answer is yes, then the rest of it is none of our business. I might suggest taking a Philosophy class or 3 or perhpas studying the works of Socrates to understand rhetoric and the concept of debating a basic argument without throwing in extraneous elements when your argument is untenable.

[blue neen]

114. Is it really her choice?

What is so uncomfortable about this, IMHO, is that it seems like it is her husband's choice.

At this point, pregnancy is a danger to her health and life. Is she really in control of who is making the decisions about her own body?

[blueamy66]

121. Yes.

Just like abused woman stay in their abusive marriages.

I think Michelle is brainwashed....maybe "not all there", ya know?

[blue neen]

123. If that is the case, then I still believe that it's not really of her own volition.

Abused women often do not stay in their marriages out of choice.

[blueamy66]

153. Then why do they stay?

nt

[blue neen]

165. That is a very complex issue that deserves a thread of its' own.

Let's just say that I personally know women who have been in that very unenviable position.

[Le Taz Hot]

125. It is her choice.

She's a deeply religious woman who believes that all children are a gift from God. You and I don't have to agree with it and may see the mysogeny inherent in her religion (true of all three major religions) and we may also see the brainwashing (all religion is brainwashing, IMO) but the kernal of the debate is Choice. As a life-long advocate of my body/my choice I find it incongruent to offer what is nothing more than a judgment on her based upon her decision and then try to dress it up as "opinion."

Here's an example: A woman decides to legally terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Anti-choice individuals can offer an opinion that abortion is murder. CALLING the woman a murderer is a judgemnt directed on her as a person. It's debate when arguing the core topic as opposed to personalizing it and damning her as an individual.

[blue neen]

145. If you are not able to be in control of your own brain, for whatever the reason,

then, IMHO, you are not in control of your own choices.

We shall agree to disagree. :)

[Bunny]

122. Oh for chrissake it's an internet message board.

I don't need to study Socrates to have an opinion on this family's incessant breeding, and being a liberal doesn't mean that I have to give up my prerogative to express that opinion. I am NOT trying to prohibit their right to have 48 kids if they feel like it, and THAT'S the difference.

[zalinda]

140. While I understand it's her choice

it is pretty irresponsible to the planet. We have a massive problem, that will one day in the not too distant future, will rear it's ugly head, and that is overpopulation. Back in the 50's and 60's, we were all quite clueless to the problems of overpopulation and it was quite common to find families of 5 or 6 children, especially in Catholic areas. My mother was one of those women, giving birth to 6 children. If she had had her way, she wouldn't have had that many. In fact, with each child, she can name the birth control method that failed. It doesn't mean she didn't love us, but it was a hardship on her, and she really wanted a life of her own.

There is a reason that when birth control is offered to impoverished people around the world, that they limit the amount of children that they have, and their quality of life improves.

I also find it some what offensive that they talk religious values, and yet so many children need adoption. If they have a NEED for so many children, adopt them or foster them. Popping all of them out of your body, is freak show mentality, and quite selfish. I don't watch the show and never intend to. They are freaks by choice, not because of circumstances. I understand the show about the little people family, not only is it good for the public to see that they are human and not someone to make fun of, but also with the health issues that come with the condition, it is a way for the family to make a living that won't reduce their quality of life. Oh, and I don't watch that show either. I'm not into these social type of 'reality' shows.

zalinda

[snooper2]

146. I made it my business, I'm going to start a bus tour so we can FREE GINGER

:) :P

[ljm2002]

124. Why do so many so-called "liberals" on DU...

...not get this: The Duggar family CHOSE to put their lives on national TV as a reality show. By doing so, they MADE it ANYONE'S business. We would not know about this family if it were not for their own self-promotion. That being the case, we can all feel free to comment on their choices, their lifestyle, what they had for dinner last night on the show, or anything else about them. They are now public figures, and that was THEIR CHOICE.

Our comments in no way limit their choices. And to say it is none of our business is laughable given the fact of the reality TV show.

[Rockholm]

151. Agreed. Best post regarding this subject.

Sad that she lost the fetus.

[sibelian]

130. No, no, no, no....

NO.

It's doesn't become sensible BECAUSE SHE'S CHOSEN IT.

:banghead:

God Almighty...

[IdaBriggs]

133. Maybe I should hit the "Alert" button on this post -

common sense doesn't seem like it belongs on this thread! :)

Well said, by the way. Well said! :)

[girl gone mad]

24. I think her body is telling her "Enough!"

It's time to stop and enjoy the 19 beautiful children she already has.

[SomethingFishy]

38. After the problems with the last one the doctor

told them if she got pregnant again she would probably miscarry. At least that's what my wife told me they said on their little tv show...

[CTyankee]

26. Why are these people famous? Who are they? What else do they do but reproduce?

I really want to know!

[RZM]

30. Sadly, they have a much better claim to fame than most reality stars

Most reality stars are little more than wannabe celebs. Almost none has any claim to fame, unless you count being an idiot as a claim to fame.

But the Duggars have actually done something unusual - produce 19 offspring. I feel odd defending them, but in the low bar of reality television, they've actually managed to do something slightly worthy of attention. All most reality stars do is party, fight, and have sex (well the Duggars have one of those down, at least ;))

[CTyankee]

43. So they are famous for reproducing? Really?

How are they "stars" of anything?

This is crazy...I am confused...

[RZM]

48. Reproducing isn't unusual.

Reproducing 19 times is. And 'reality stars' is just the language I see used. They aren't stars like Hollywood stars but they are stars of a kind, just like Snooki and co. are, unfortunately.

[CTyankee]

50. I guess I am wondering why I am here talking about them. Why ARE we here?

[RZM]

52. Good question. I don't know.

Yet here we are nonetheless. One of life's riddles, I guess :)

[CTyankee]

56. Well....

Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherized upon a table;

Or something like that...sorry for the Eliot...

[riderinthestorm]

57. Because patriarchal reality shows, that spotlight pregnant barefoot-in-the-kitchen women

who are into hard core Religious Right brainwashing is what a LOT of Rethug teevee watchers like. I'm actually shocked they haven't shown Mr. Duggar at any purity balls with his daughters yet..... Of course, the image of the girls doing ALL the work while the boys... don't plus the religious hard sell is a major turn off for me so I've never watched it.

Honestly, the fact this teevee show is on at all should scare you. It scares me.

[CTyankee]

58. well, I don't watch them, you are right, which is why I don't know who the hell they are.

I guess I am fine in my blue state paradise...I dunno...but I will say that I don't know anyone who watches whatever show they are on...

[wordpix]

76. as our current 6 billion+ population attests to

[Crunchy Frog]

68. They don't *just* reproduce. They reproduce for public entertainment.

[backscatter712]

155. Practice their batshit fundie beliefs in a Bronze-Age sky-god.

And inflict them on their many children...

[MisterP]

27. anyone remember that MythBusters where they burst the truck tire?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

32. I so want to say something, but I'm not going to.

[ThatsMyBarack]

36. Me, too.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

46. Well, then, I'll say hello to you.

:hi:

[leeroysphitz]

33. That's so sad but at least they can try again. n/t

[RebelOne]

34. Which they will. You can bet on that. n/t

[Zanzoobar]

62. This is one of the best comments I've ever read on DU.

[Lorien]

93. Lord knows 7 billion "miracles" aren't enough

seriously, anyone with 19 kids isn't going to have the time and resources to devote to being a decent parent to them all. The eldest girls are saddled with all the responsibility and end up having no childhood of their own. It's completely selfish and short sighted when one considers the needs of the other kids, LET ALONE the state that the planet is in today.

[stuntcat]

117. yup

These people are personally responsible for how awfully the next few decades will suck and how many species will be wiped out.

It is the filthiest thing in the universe, our species thinking God's on our side and so killing off the rest of the life. It's cosmically wrong, a pure Evil. It's the sickest joke, people thinking they are doing Good by making copies of themselves. We're killing the planet like a disease will kill it's host.

The only chance the rest of the lifeforms have now is if a sickness can evolve fast enough to take most of us out.

[Demonaut]

35. their show should be and may eventually be called "19 kids and counseling"

still it's sad

[Raine]

39. Sympathy to the Duggars ... agree or disagree about their choice

they seem like a nice family and I'm sure they are heartbroken about this loss.

[Ilsa]

41. Her ovaries are aging, producing more unviable ovum for fertilization.

Miscarriages are common at her age. I hope they'll decide to stop trying for #20. The likelihood of genetic defects and autism increases as well with advanced age of parents. Miscarriages at this age are a sign that its time to stop. The last baby was born prematurely, and had health issues, but appears to be doing well now.

I feel for her, especially. A miscarriage can mess with you emotionally for a long time.

[wordpix]

73. apparently, they are not "trying," & they certainly couldn't care less about the science facts

Gawd is their decider

[HughBeaumont]

42. Sad news. But something tells me Jim Dumb is having none of this "Stopping" nonsense.

Maybe this is . . . God's way of telling her quivering anus of a husband "I IS GAWD! STOP ALL TH' IMPREGNATIN'!!!"

[uppityperson]

47. Condolences to the Duggars. Wonder if should post a LBN post "Duggars not pg"? Naw. Condolences.

[nolabear]

49. So sorry. But I do hope they stop. It's likely her body can't continue this.

[Barack_America]

51. It must be tough to go through this in the public eye...

She and her husband made the choice to do so, but still, it must be tough.

[Blasphemer]

55. A miscarriage is always tragic

All of their children have been wanted and that is a good thing. I feel for their loss on that level. Whether they should be having more kids? I disagree that anyone should have that many children, especially in a country as developed at the U.S., but as has been mentioned - reproductive choice. Hopefully, they have considered the potential consequences of continued child-bearing.

[Fuzz]

59. It will be in a jar on the mantle and star in 2 episodes next year.

[wordpix]

74. lol

[Crunchy Frog]

60. Not surprised. I think with her last pregnancy, her body made it pretty damn clear

that it was finished with childbearing.

[Fair Witness]

61. There was an old woman who lived in a shoe

She had so many children she didn't know what to do
...
apparently...

[we can do it]

63. Please Make the Freak Show Go Away

its not news, and if people would stop looking at the freaks, just maybe they would go away.

[LeftyMom]

66. Breaking news: It's not a good idea to get pregnant at 45.

If you're already a grandparent twice, you should probably stop having babies.

Seriously, this is probably the best case scenario. The last kid damned near killed her, nearly died a couple of times in the process, and is a little bundle of health problems. None of the three youngest girls talk, and considering they range in ages from two to four and a half, that's fucking scary. A second trimester miscarriage is usually the result of genetic defects, so this kid probably would have wound up more messed up than the last three, and they're NOT equipped to handle that at all.

[AngryOldDem]

75. I think she needs to start listening to her body.

This could end up killing her.

The body is not made to be a perpetual baby machine. It needs time to recover, especially when the mother is over 40 and her kids are just two years apart or so.

[Arugula Latte]

84. She's not listening to her body, she's listening to her make-believe invisible master in the sky.

:eyes:

[HughBeaumont]

103. + 100.

She's also, unfortunately, married to Jim Dumb, who's having none of this "stopping" nonsense. These are the type of ignoramuses that think you can have babies in your 50s if it's "Gawd's Will". Continuing to try for more kids is just plain irresponsible at this point.

Comes a time where you just have to put that belief thing aside and save your own life, as well as those of the kids you have. We knew this was coming. Sooner or later, science eventually plays out.

[Bombero1956]

69. here's what I don't get

They went on the Today show to announce the pregnancy and today they announce the miscarriage and ask for privacy? :wtf:

[Hayabusa]

70. I'm sorry for their loss

I don't agree with their views on pretty much anything, but I wish them good thoughts in these tough times.

[wordpix]

72. "the miscarriage led them to believe they should eschew birth control."

That was at #2. :crazy: These people are total nutcases. Enough already! Adopt some poor kids who need homes, why don't you? :banghead:

[LeftyMom]

85. They're ATI/Gothardites, and Bill Gothard says adoption brings intergenerational curses

into the adopting family. So that's not going to happen.

Really, it's just as well. Fundamentalist/QF families adopting tends to go really, really badly anyhow.

[MrsBrady]

79. I wouldn't wish ill on anyone...and

I've had a miscarriage, it was devastating for me....
and I'm sure it is sad for them. Although I don't want to presume how other
people feel.

Yes, I think they have too many kids. But it's also none of my damn business.

Some of the comments in this thread are disturbing.

[Number23]

87. "Some of the comments in this thread are disturbing."

Yep. As usual anytime someone's lifestyle comes up that folks here disagree with for whatever reason.

Yes, I think they have too many kids. But it's also none of my damn business.

+10000

[snooper2]

150. They can have any lifestyle they want. And, if they want to make 30K

an episode or whatever the fuck it is to broadcast themselves to the World....

I can sit back on my couch and laugh at their "lifestyle"

[Number23]

156. What is there to "laugh" at, exactly? Particularly as they have just lost a child?

Your attitude says a hell of a lot more about you than it does the Duggars.

[snooper2]

161. fact that they lost a child is sad, other than that their whole family is a joke

Except for Jinger,


FREE JINGER!

[No Elephants]

110. I am so sorry for youor loss.

[snooper2]

148. Luckily they won't read any of them, The Internets are the evil devil you know

:)

[Old and In the Way]

80. Can you imagine if they lived in Mississippi and the State had passed the Zygote Bill of Rights?

There'd have to have been a criminal investigation on poor Mrs. Duggar, I'm afraid. Equal application of the law and all. Given her age and increased likelihood of miscarriage, a filing on grounds of reckless endangerment? Or, if a particularly zealous DA wanted to push it, possibly a charge of premeditated murder? And what if she tried to conceive another baby with the same result? Serial murder?

Lucky for her and Mr. Duggar, saner heads prevailed...this time.

So I guess when Mrs. Duggar is rested up, they are good to give it another go in the near future? What's the 1 couple record, anyone know?

Just imagine if the Duggar family had been the US norm for, say, the last 4 generations. If you started with 30MM couples having 19 kids and 60% of each successive generation marry and had 19 kids, we'd have a population of 105.5 billion in just 4 generations. Get rid of taxes, drown government, get rid of public education, protect the zygotes, and we'd all be living in conservative utopia!

[Gormy Cuss]

169. I don't know the record but I knew two families with more than 20 children.

One was an old school Catholic family and they had a total of 26 live births. The other family I knew because I babysit for the oldest daughter's kids, two of whom were older than siblings #s 21 and 22.

I think the Guinness world record for children born to one woman is 69.

[Number23]

86. So sad. My condolences go to that entire family. The loss of a child is always awful.

[JNelson6563]

154. +1

I do hope she stops though or those poor kids will have to finish growing up without mother.

Julie

[riderinthestorm]

90. What's sad is Mrs. Duggar does have a choice, real choice to not put herself or her family

or another zygote (in their mind, a REAL BABY) through this again. She has the choice to say no, to say enough, to say Gawd spoke to her and said enough.

But she's been brainwashed by religion into believing she's got to persist despite medical science. She'll never entertain the notion that perhaps she can make a decision independent of JimBob and thus we WILL see more dead fetus', still births, miscarriages or whatever. Really sad stuff. Heart wrenching stuff.

The Duggars have decided to put these kinds of intensely personal decisions into the public eye via a reality teevee show. Its disgusting actually. People want to say it's all about the Duggar's "choice" without acknowledging that they could make some really different choices that would be a hell of a lot more medically sound for themselves and their herd's physical and mental health. They've opened themselves up for discussion, scrutiny and critique by appearing on teevee. Gross.

[Le Taz Hot]

96. I seem to remember getting into it

with DU's neo-liberals (you know, the ones who advocated for forced sterilization of Mrs. Dugger) a few weeks back about what pro-choice meant. I'm sure all those condemning her CHOICE are happy now. (I haven't read upthread but I'm guessing there are lots of high-fives going on up there.)

For me, Mrs. Dugger: I may not agree with your choices but I damned well believe in your INALIABLE right to make them. My condolences to you and your family.

[hamsterjill]

132. Look....

If you cannot understand the very real difference in a woman's right to choose...versus the extremity that is the Duggars and the sideshow that they themselves have caused, benefitted from, and continue to participate in, in order to reap those benefits, then I cannot understand it for you.

[Le Taz Hot]

136. I understand your argument very well

and have countered it. Those of you who believe her cervix is somehow your business are the ones who have not moved the argument forward. Instead you choose to go back to the same points that I've countered in several ways using several different approaches, even giving an example at one point. So, to use a recent quote: ". . . I cannot understand it for you."

[hamsterjill]

137. It's all about ratings

So you don't believe that her "choice" has anything to do with boosting the ratings for a very lucrative television show venture that she and her husband benefit from? Tell me honestly that this family would be on television for any reason OTHER than the fact that this woman mega births!

She and Jim Bob CHOSE (yes, there's that word!!!) to sign a contract with TLC and benefit ($$$$$) from this show. It is to their (the Duggars) benefit to continue to drive ratings, and what does one do to drive the ratings of a show solely about mega birthing? One continues to mega birth.

Now I don't know about you, but trust me because *I* know that childbirth is NO picnic. So one reasonable person might wonder WHY a woman would put herself through childbirth so many times. Why that woman would not consider herself blessed with the children that she has and use her energy and assets toward taking care of those children rather than ALWAYS wanting more. The answer is ratings!

And yes, what they do became public interest the first day they voluntarily put their family in the public spotlight.

I've said this before and I will say it again. This is NOT about her having or not having a choice about continuing to breed. It is about the ADVISABILITY of her doing that.

[Le Taz Hot]

141. I don't believe her CHOICE

is any of my business. I can't state it any simpler than that.

[hamsterjill]

142. And I can't state any simpler

Than a woman shouldn't be having 20 kids!

[Ilsa]

100. I wonder if Rick Santorum has sent them a jar?

(I expressed my sympathies to them in an earlier post.)

[lunatica]

101. This was going to happen sooner or later

The old uterus stops working so well when you age. And the incidences of having children with Downs Syndrome gets higher as the eggs age. The averages of diminishing returns sets in.

[Marrah_G]

107. Although I feel badly for Ms. Duggar, I think maybe this is nature telling her to stop

I would hate to see one of these pregnancies kill her all because of some warped religious beliefs.

[Octafish]

115. My prayers and sympathies to anyone who's suffered such a loss.

Politics and history and all the rest come second when it comes to suffering.

Personally, I don't care for the Duggars as publicity hounds or republigans or whatever they are -- as with many good DUers, I do care for them as human beings.

[Fuddnik]

Who?

[DainBramaged]

116. I wonder if these subjects will fly on the DU3?

Olive Garden, AppleBees, Cigarettes, breastfeeding, circumcision, narwhals, pit bulls, smoking bans

Elliot Spritzer, High school bands, soda pop, pornography toilet paper dust, Natalie Wood's untimely death

food stamps, kids on planes, drinking caffeine, bombing the moon, tax fast food

Rapture, PETA, Vaccinations, orange juice, and Jessie James

Ipads, PayPal, Michael Vicks, Octomom, unicorns and Charlie Sheen

we didn't hate the Weiner, 2 Broke Girls are the new screaming kids in restaurants, we didn't include the spare tire....... and the Dugger mom is popping out another one......

[LanternWaste]

160. will maintain all the credibility they warrant on DU3 as well as they do on the current DU.

I imagine your righteous rage and petulance will maintain all the credibility they warrant on DU3 as well as they do on the current DU.

[WI_DEM]

120. I suppose to keep getting their reality TV paycheck they will continue to try and

have more kids.

[Gormy Cuss]

131. If her miscarriages count, this would have been the 21st child.

It was a miscarriage early in their marriage that set them on the path to believe that birth control was evil and that they should have as many children as they could.

[LynneSin]

138. I have 2 things to say about this

First, the family has managed to take care of all the children they have raised so in general I have no problem with the number of kids they have however....

The woman is 45 years old and her uterus is in wretched condition. Their last child was born prematurely and had complications (although she survived). I find it difficult for any anti-choice advocate to say it's ok that this family continues having children knowing that the familys risk of having a miscarriage is EXTREMELY high. If I was wretchedly anti-choice the last thing I would want to do is continue having babies knowing that any further pregancies would come with a very high risk of a miscarriage or lifetime of medical issues.

19 kids are enough - finish raising those kids and start enjoying the grand children that will soon be coming into your life

[Arugula Latte]

152. They already have two grandkids.

I have to say, it sickens me to think of all the people that are going to result from these two hyper-breeders.

[LynneSin]

163. I know, it's pretty scary isn't it

:scared:

[cherish44]

139. I really do think the mom is addicted to being pregnant and having babies

I'm very sorry about their loss. It's painful beyond belief to lose a child, even to miscarriage. I know a lot of very conservative families with lots of kids who consider children to be a gift from God etc...but eventually they say enough is enough. Given her last pregnancy had complications that could have meant the deaths of both her and the baby, why would she be so reckless to compromise her health or risk having a very sick baby who will do nothing but suffer? (I used to care for a severly handicapped child (due to birth defects and prematurity), he is in pain and miserable all the time, in and out of the hospital, not a happy life at all). It might be time to use the BRAINS God blessed them with to make wise choices for the sake of the family that's already here...

[hamsterjill]

143. I think you are correct.

She's either addicted to being pregnant, or she's addicted to that paycheck that they get for the show, and to keep ratings high, they must continue to have more children. Either way, it's time for them to stop for the very reasons that you well illustrate in your post.

[Old and In the Way]

170. If children are a gift from God, what is a miscarriage?

Not trying to be a dickhead when I ask that...but it does present an interesting question as to how to interpret just what is God's "gift" in conveying a miscarriage? Perhaps it's God's way of saying to Mrs. Duggar "no more gifts"?

[snooper2]

144. FREEEEEEEEEE GINGER!!!!!!!!!!

[ensho]

149. good - the silly woman's uterus and womb are probably wore out

nt

[a simple pattern]

157. Panty police!

This woman needs to be investigated for a possible fetal homicide.

[LynneSin]

164. If she was from Mississippi and that anti-choice law had passed

the one where miscarriages would be investigated to insure they were intentional - that means this woman would have been subjected to an investigation.

That's the stupidity of some of these laws. Nice point brought up!

[LanternWaste]

159. I imagine I wouldn't make the choice to have that many children.

I imagine I wouldn't make the choice to have that many children.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't make the choice to illustrate my own vulgarity at their expense, and then rationalizing that same vulgarity afterwards...

[Hotler]

162. How to re-line a hoo-ha.

You take a bone-in picnic ham. Shove it up there, give the bone a half twist and pull the bone out. Waiting for the delete.:evilgrin:

[Myrina]

166. Sounds like a hint from the ol' uterus, to me ....

:shrug:

[Still Blue in PDX]

168. Sad. nt