Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jon Stewart Hits Obama Over Indefinite Military Detentions

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:32 AM
Original message
Jon Stewart Hits Obama Over Indefinite Military Detentions
It’s not often that Jon Stewart aims his wrath at President Obama. The president has been a guest on The Daily Show. Stewart has called him “dude.”

But on Wednesday, Stewart took aim at a Senate defense spending bill that would allow indefinite military detentions of terror suspects. And he was shocked Democrats and Republicans each had 30 minutes to lay out their arguments for or against the bill.

“For the debate on eliminating one of the most basic protections of citizenship, we require at least the running time of 2 Broke Girls, including commercials,” Stewart said. “This is not a banana republic.”

The White House is threatening to veto the bill, but not for the reason you may think, Stewart said. “Obama is going to veto this thing, not because he objects to the executive branch having near infinite power to detain whoever it wants, but because he objects to the executive not having totally infinite power,” he said.

MORE & VIDEO:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/jon-stewart-hits-obama-over-indefinite-military-detentions.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's
The White House is threatening to veto the bill, but not for the reason you may think, Stewart said. “Obama is going to veto this thing, not because he objects to the executive branch having near infinite power to detain whoever it wants, but because he objects to the executive not having totally infinite power,” he said.

...incredible how distortions become fact, and simply because people want to poop on the President's determination to veto the bill.

STATEMENT OF ADMINISTRATION POLICY: S. 1867 – National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2012 (PDF)

<...>

Detainee Matters: The Administration objects to and has serious legal and policy concerns about many of the detainee provisions in the bill. In their current form, some of these provisions disrupt the Executive branch's ability to enforce the law and impose unwise and unwarranted restrictions on the U.S. Government's ability to aggressively combat international terrorism; other provisions inject legal uncertainty and ambiguity that may only complicate the military's operations and detention practices.

Section 1031 attempts to expressly codify the detention authority that exists under the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) (the “AUMF”). The authorities granted by the AUMF, including the detention authority, are essential to our ability to protect the American people from the threat posed by al-Qa'ida and its associated forces, and have enabled us to confront the full range of threats this country faces from those organizations and individuals. Because the authorities codified in this section already exist, the Administration does not believe codification is necessary and poses some risk. After a decade of settled jurisprudence on detention authority, Congress must be careful not to open a whole new series of legal questions that will distract from our efforts to protect the country. While the current language minimizes many of those risks, future legislative action must ensure that the codification in statute of express military detention authority does not carry unintended consequences that could compromise our ability to protect the American people.

The Administration strongly objects to the military custody provision of section 1032, which would appear to mandate military custody for a certain class of terrorism suspects. This unnecessary, untested, and legally controversial restriction of the President's authority to defend the Nation from terrorist threats would tie the hands of our intelligence and law enforcement professionals. Moreover, applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets. We have spent ten years since September 11, 2001, breaking down the walls between intelligence, military, and law enforcement professionals; Congress should not now rebuild those walls and unnecessarily make the job of preventing terrorist attacks more difficult. Specifically, the provision would limit the flexibility of our national security professionals to choose, based on the evidence and the facts and circumstances of each case, which tool for incapacitating dangerous terrorists best serves our national security interests. The waiver provision fails to address these concerns, particularly in time-sensitive operations in which law enforcement personnel have traditionally played the leading role. These problems are all the more acute because the section defines the category of individuals who would be subject to mandatory military custody by substituting new and untested legislative criteria for the criteria the Executive and Judicial branches are currently using for detention under the AUMF in both habeas litigation and military operations. Such confusion threatens our ability to act swiftly and decisively to capture, detain, and interrogate terrorism suspects, and could disrupt the collection of vital intelligence about threats to the American people.

Rather than fix the fundamental defects of section 1032 or remove it entirely, as the Administration and the chairs of several congressional committees with jurisdiction over these matters have advocated, the revised text merely directs the President to develop procedures to ensure the myriad problems that would result from such a requirement do not come to fruition. Requiring the President to devise such procedures concedes the substantial risks created by mandating military custody, without providing an adequate solution. As a result, it is likely that implementing such procedures would inject significant confusion into counterterrorism operations.

<...>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Read it. Stewart has it right.
That is made abundantly clear in the blue words. DUers need to read them for themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Ah
"Read it. Stewart has it right. That is made abundantly clear in the blue words. DUers need to read them for themselves."

...bullshit

Administration strongly objects to the military custody provision of section 1032, which would appear to mandate military custody for a certain class of terrorism suspects. This unnecessary, untested, and legally controversial restriction of the President's authority to defend the Nation from terrorist threats would tie the hands of our intelligence and law enforcement professionals. Moreover, applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets. We have spent ten years since September 11, 2001, breaking down the walls between intelligence, military, and law enforcement professionals; Congress should not now rebuild those walls and unnecessarily make the job of preventing terrorist attacks more difficult. Specifically, the provision would limit the flexibility of our national security professionals to choose, based on the evidence and the facts and circumstances of each case, which tool for incapacitating dangerous terrorists best serves our national security interests. The waiver provision fails to address these concerns, particularly in time-sensitive operations in which law enforcement personnel have traditionally played the leading role. These problems are all the more acute because the section defines the category of individuals who would be subject to mandatory military custody by substituting new and untested legislative criteria for the criteria the Executive and Judicial branches are currently using for detention under the AUMF in both habeas litigation and military operations. Such confusion threatens our ability to act swiftly and decisively to capture, detain, and interrogate terrorism suspects, and could disrupt the collection of vital intelligence about threats to the American people.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. The administration's statement mentions habeas, but
says nothing about the fact that the idea of imprisoning American citizens without respecting the strictures of the Bill of Rights is an infamous attack on the American people.

The White House statement should be simple and direct: No. Congress can pass no law that would possibly deprive American citizens of the human rights guaranteed in the Constitution for which generations of Americans have fought and died.

No way. No way. No way.

The legalistic talk hides a lot of weakness and wavering by the Obama administration.

Why can't Obama use plain talk like Truman did? He would gain the trust of a lot more voters if he just came out and spoke like everyone else.

He should come out and say that the damage to our nation that military authority exercised within our borders and long-term detention of American citizens without respect for the prohibitions on government power set forth in the Bill of Rights would do more harm than good.

Remember, the Bill of Rights prohibits Congress from passing certain kinds of laws. Congress does not have the authority to pass the proposed bill.

It isn't a matter of majority or choice. Congress just cannot do this, and the president should remind them of that fact.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. More
"The administration's statement mentions habeas, but says nothing about the fact that the idea of imprisoning American citizens without respecting the strictures of the Bill of Rights is an infamous attack on the American people."

...nonsense.

Administration strongly objects to the military custody provision of section 1032, which would appear to mandate military custody for a certain class of terrorism suspects. This unnecessary, untested, and legally controversial restriction of the President's authority to defend the Nation from terrorist threats would tie the hands of our intelligence and law enforcement professionals. Moreover, applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets. We have spent ten years since September 11, 2001, breaking down the walls between intelligence, military, and law enforcement professionals; Congress should not now rebuild those walls and unnecessarily make the job of preventing terrorist attacks more difficult. Specifically, the provision would limit the flexibility of our national security professionals to choose, based on the evidence and the facts and circumstances of each case, which tool for incapacitating dangerous terrorists best serves our national security interests. The waiver provision fails to address these concerns, particularly in time-sensitive operations in which law enforcement personnel have traditionally played the leading role. These problems are all the more acute because the section defines the category of individuals who would be subject to mandatory military custody by substituting new and untested legislative criteria for the criteria the Executive and Judicial branches are currently using for detention under the AUMF in both habeas litigation and military operations. Such confusion threatens our ability to act swiftly and decisively to capture, detain, and interrogate terrorism suspects, and could disrupt the collection of vital intelligence about threats to the American people.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. This statement does not seem to object to the detention
of American citizens in violation of the rights guaranteed to us in the Bill of Rights regarding the rights of the accused in a criminal case.

I suppose that some perverted mind could argue that terrorists are not accused of crimes and therefore are not entitled to the protections of the accused in a criminal case, but then I think that person would run up against the protections in the Fourth, Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments regarding other rights guaranteed to us in the Constitution.

The Obama administration's silence regarding the rights of the accused and of American citizens is deafening. Of course, it is partly because he knows very well that the detention of the prisoners at Guantanamo is an egregious violation of human rights. But, he is caught because some of the prisoners may actually be very dangerous and very, very angry -- especially after spending so many years in prison without trial. A trial could not be fair because the evidence would be tainted in many ways, not least because confessions obtained by torture if offered as proof of guilt in some cases would be highly embarrassing to our country and very possibly excluded even by a military court.

Bush really left us a nightmare. Obama needs to much more forcefully condemn the Bush legacy on human rights because Obama will be blamed for the repercussions of Bush's actions. As my grandmother used to say, the chickens always come home to roost.

People in our country can only be imprisoned AFTER they commit a crime. Obama needs to make that principle in our law very clear to the world. Preventive detention or detention for being suspected of being a terrorist (a term that is not clearly defined in our law) should not be considered to be probable cause for an arrest.

The law proposed would open the door to even the arrests of even more political prisoners than we already have. It is incompatible with our values, our traditions and our laws and must be stopped.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. that's just a lie
It's amazing the lengths folks will go to prevent the President from getting credit for positions and policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes it is. Stewart is accurate. I note you do not bother to refute
and instead merely fling words and accusations. It is so much easier to simply counter with fact, if the facts are with you. When I see posters leap to characterizations without a shred of factual support that tells me all I need to know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't have to refute every stupid utterance on DU
There are concerns about executive authority in relation to some aspects of the bill, but the detention concerns are clearly expressed:


. . . applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. You should expect to support claims you make yourself.
The detention issues are not made clear at all. If they were, we'd not be having this discussion. If it is as you say, it would be easy for the WH to say so clearly, without a storm of legal language, in no uncertain terms, without any chance for confusion. That is what they need to do if you are correct. They do not do so. And they are getting called out for that by many, many Democrats. Not one of my elected officials voted for this crap. I know exactly what they think, and exactly what they did. I can not say the same for the administration.
Let me add that in the religion Obama cites to rationalize his opposition to equal rights for all it is commanded that those of that faith employ proactively clear and direct language, it is their religious duty to express their thoughts with exactitude and to make them understood by others. They are forbidden 'spin' and all other methods of clouding communications. When I see a person oppose equality 'cause they are a Christian, yet they do not speak clearly nor exactly, when they allow confusion and vagueness to taint the discussion, they are giant, leaping hypocrites. There is no room in that faith for anything short of speaking unmitigated truth. To do otherwise, according to Jesus, comes from evil. Jesus is the guy they named 'Christianity' after. He said nothing against gay people, and he did command exact, truthful, clearly understandable communication. I expect those who vomit Scripture at me to follow their own parts of that Scripture, if they don't I do not respect their exploitation of that faith, nor their attacks on equality framed with that faith, which they do not practice, which they reject for themselves and yet demand others bow to.
Patrols on the streets arrest. Others can arrest and still lead to detentions. So no military patrols does not in fact address the issue of detention for unlimited times. At all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. just whitewash over the fact that the President clearly said he opposes American detentions
". . . applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets."

You've just blown smoke over the facts with a load of reactionary garble. Raced past his clear objections and substituted them with your own biased interpretation. Typical of the opposition to this President. Lay down your own preconceived conjecture as a substitute for his actual position. It's no wonder you couldn't see the truth right in front of you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Stewart was wrong..
This is indeed a banana republic.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Blame is a more appropriate word than credit unless Obama
deals with the arrest and detention of people who have not committed a crime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
qb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kudos to Stewart for keeping the focus on this POS bill.
It floors me that Dems would vote for something so blatantly unconstitutional.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. A Comedian on a "Fake News" program...
...does MORE to protect our Constitutional Rights
than the leadership of BOTH dominant Political Parties,
and the entire Corporate Authorized "News" outlets.

Stewart did another expose last year.
It is worth a look.

Restore America’s Honor
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC