DHS co-ordinating brutal nationwide police attacks upon #OWS? Guess who is the DHS overseer:

[Fire Walk With Me]

Audio: Congressman Peter King (R) says he remembers 1960s .. Don't legitimize OWS or they will win'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T0IOsLk08zs

Source:

For the terrible insight to take away from news that the Department of Homeland Security coordinated a violent crackdown is that the DHS does not freelance. The DHS cannot say, on its own initiative, "we are going after these scruffy hippies". Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee, who naturally is influenced by his fellow congressmen and women's wishes and interests. And the DHS answers directly, above King, to the president (who was conveniently in Australia at the time).

In other words, for the DHS to be on a call with mayors, the logic of its chain of command and accountability implies that congressional overseers, with the blessing of the White House, told the DHS to authorise mayors to order their police forces – pumped up with millions of dollars of hardware and training from the DHS – to make war on peaceful citizens.

But wait: why on earth would Congress advise violent militarised reactions against its own peaceful constituents? The answer is straightforward: in recent years, members of Congress have started entering the system as members of the middle class (or upper middle class) – but they are leaving DC privy to vast personal wealth, as we see from the "scandal" of presidential contender Newt Gingrich's having been paid $1.8m for a few hours' "consulting" to special interests. The inflated fees to lawmakers who turn lobbyists are common knowledge, but the notion that congressmen and women are legislating their own companies' profitsis less widely known – and if the books were to be opened, they would surely reveal corruption on a Wall Street spectrum. Indeed, we do already know that congresspeople are massively profiting from trading on non-public information they have on companies about which they are legislating – a form of insider trading that sent Martha Stewart to jail.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy

Edit: Thanks to DUer Jello Biafra for the Guardian/Watts link. Is it really you, Jello? :)

Committee on Homeland Security, Chairman Peter T. King

http://homeland.house.gov/

[Marr]

1. Actually, I believe he needs the approval of this guy:

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. Whoop, there it is.

[Vincardog]

8. Whoop, there it is.

[JackRiddler]

31. Whoop, there it is.

[bananas]

34. Whoop, there it is. nt

[bvar22]

38. Whoop, there it is.

President Obama IS the Top Law Enforcement Officer in the nation.
He IS responsible.
If the DHS was operating without his permission, sanction, or knowlege,
then Obama needs to CRUSH this rogue organization,
just like President Truman crushed General MacArthur when he went rogue.



Leadership! "The Buck Stops HERE!" NO Excuses!

Silence on this issue,
or Looking the Other Way IS endorsement and complicity.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[fascisthunter]

39. well, there ya go

what a brilliant man...! not

[WillyT]

62. Oh Damn... Whoop, There It Is...

:evilgrin:

:rofl:

:hi:

[dana_b]

2. yes, well we are "domestic terrorists" -

right?? it's sickening.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. Seen at the Nov. 15 brutal crackdown at Zuccotti Park:

[FreakinDJ]

9. So now practicing your 1st Amendment Rights is a Terrorist Act

Chanting "USA USA USA"

[fascisthunter]

35. and We all knew it was leading to this when the patriot Act was Signed

[dixiegrrrrl]

55. Actually, that became so when the ink dried on the Patriot Act

AND
many many of us said so, at the time.
Sadly, things have progressed as we were were afraid they would.

[IDemo]

57. Depends which way you lean as you practice, Left or Right n/t

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nc4bo]

5. Not liking where this is leading.....

one damn bit...

[Broderick]

7. touche n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

10. STAND! FIGHT! #OCCUPY!

[nc4bo]

11. GA OccupyFayetteville scheduled for tomorrow @2-4, Market House.

Couldn't go to our event today (out of town company) but will go tomorrow!!

OCCUPY!

[PETRUS]

6. OWS

Is an indictment of the ruling class and their undemocratic behavior.

Naturally, the ruling class does not want their existence acknowledged, or their decisions questioned.

[Rex]

12. FUCK HIM!

The paymasters are desperate and running out of ideas on how to make the OWS people 'go away'. I am very certain that a large number of people just like Asshole (R) would LOVE nothing more then to KILL people to make them leave. We are talking about very sick people that will do anything to win for their greedy overlords.

[rocktivity]

13. Congratulations, Congressman King -- you've JUST legitimized us!

:applause: :woohoo: :party:
rocktivity

[NYC_SKP]

14. I haven't seen any evidence that the DHS is "co-ordinating brutal nationwide police attacks".

That's really a stretch of a headline, I think.

That some of the cities have asked for guidance from federal agencies is clear and it seems reasonable.

However, tying that relationship causally to the brutality of some of the police actions is very misleading, to be kind.

The violent actions are, IMHO, crimes, and not, I am confident, suggested actions by DHS.

Unfortunately, a lot of people will not want to consider these distinctions.

But failure to understand them is actually counterproductive to the OWS cause, which seeks to enlighten and educate the citizenry.

:donut:

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Actually we are getting to the point that it does not matter

how many dots are connected or evidence presented.

They are... but there is nothing we can do about it.

[Rex]

27. Can you imagne if Hoover was around and running the DHS?

HE would have had everyone already locked up or packed up and going home.

[Fire Walk With Me]

19. Please read this article. If it is false, I will post an apology thread:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy

[NYC_SKP]

24. The 18 city conference call is uncontested, DHS providing advice, coordination uncontested.

It's the qualifier "brutal" that is unsubstantiated by any memos or even by any anonymous accounts.

I feel confident that the brutality was committed independent of DHS, individual breeches committed without any DHS input.

Were some of the pieces of coordination pushing or crossing the line of being constitutionally acceptable?

Probably, but still no solid evidence of that... (but it seems likely)

Were any of the acts of brutality a coordinated effort, like "use pepper spray liberally", or "muss 'em up some".

No, I don't think so, and that's where my objection lies with articles that ramp up the rhetoric and lead to misinformation.

It really matters that we are armed with clear and lucid FACTS and not emotions.

Despite how emotional it all is.

I want us to win, I'm picky, I don't want anything to fuck this up.

:hi:

[SidDithers]

26. +1...nt

Sid

[Fumesucker]

28. ...

[freshwest]

41. Pikezella Does NYC! Happy Thanksgiving, Christmas Shoppers!

[Fire Walk With Me]

46. Will all of the highly visible incidences of brutal violence, in some areas repeatedly,

you might expect someone, anyone in power, to call it out and demand it stop.

No one has. Except Dennis Kucinich.

Silence from the powers that be, at every level. Silence. Know them by their fruits. They won't even protect the people who voted for them.

[SomethingFishy]

49. Hmmm... not brutal.. ok then..

"co-ordinating mean nationwide police attacks"
"co-ordinating nasty nationwide police attacks"
"co-ordinating violent nationwide police attacks"
"co-ordinating overzealous nationwide police attacks"

Whatever you call it the point of the OP still seems to stand. The DHS is helping the police with their OWS "problem".

[Kaleko]

52. Of course they won't use words like "brutal" or "use pepper spray," etc.

You said: "It's the qualifier "brutal" that is unsubstantiated by any memos or even by any anonymous accounts."

And: "Were any of the acts of brutality a coordinated effort, like "use pepper spray liberally", or "muss 'em up some".
No, I don't think so, and that's where my objection lies..."

By necessity, these officials are adept at using Orwellian code language to communicate what they want done.
Even the most gullible among us should know that by now.

[Grateful for Hope]

67. +1000

:thumbsup:

[Tx4obama]

65. The Naomi Wolf article is FALSE

See here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x821842

[Leftist Agitator]

66. Well...

A lack of substantiation with respect to Naomi Wolf's article does not equate to said article being false.

The fact remains that Rep. Peter King does indeed have oversight of DHS. And he is on record saying that the Occupy movement needs to be suppressed lest it gain legitimacy. And there is also the fact that 18 cities initiated violent repression against peaceful protestors pretty much in tandem with each other, and the mayor of one of those cities has made remarks that mention a conference call among mayors discussing how to respond to their respective Occupy demonstrations.

It is much more likely, given this set of facts, that DHS is indeed coordinating the response that various cities have had to the Occupy movement. If you disagree, would you be so kind as to explain to me why that is?

[Tx4obama]

69. The mayors did not coordinate a response to OWS - see below

See the OP here for the conference call details: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2327356

[Rex]

25. I have, everyday that I read about OWS.

DHS wants to crush this movement so people will get back to shopping and giving their money to Wall Street to piss away. This is social engineering that J. Edgar Hoover would have loved to be a part of. You see rainbows, which is great keep it up. I see storns ahead and predict things will get worse until eventually DHS gets it's way and forces OWS to go home. Probably with a fake bomb threat or something close to it.

[JackRiddler]

33. Other than the coordinated brutal nationwide attacks, of course.

So either you have to argue the coordination was a spontaneous autopoeietic moment - they all just happened to do it at the same time - or someone coordinated it. Which the further evidence of the admitted conference calls and statements like Kwan's also buttress. So who do you think is doing the coordinating?

[Fire Walk With Me]

43. Once is coincidence, twice is enemy action.

[NYC_SKP]

58. No, out of 1500 occupations how many have had brutal acts by police?

I just think that among 1500 police forces a few had some really brutal jerks.

So either you have to argue the coordination was a spontaneous autopoeietic moment - they all just happened to do it at the same time - or someone coordinated it

Your premise, above, leaves me with two choices but is missing the most obvious and likely selection: coincidence among just a handful of sites where occupations exist.

I win.

:P

[Marr]

60. I really don't understand this distinction you're trying to draw.

It's not as if the DHS-- a federal agency-- is going to say, "you've got to brutally beat those filthy hippies". If that's what you're waiting then, congratulations, you can feel safe and warm, snuggled in the assurance that it's all A-OK, ethical and legal with a fresh pine scent.

Violence is implicit in the directives to remove people and bust up demonstrations.

[Downwinder]

15. So it moves from Occupy to Walmart.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Why oh why do I have to go to the British press?

Rhetorical

But for those STILL INSISTING there is no agenda...

The mainstream media was declaring continually "OWS has no message". Frustrated, I simply asked them. I began soliciting online "What is it you want?" answers from Occupy. In the first 15 minutes, I received 100 answers. These were truly eye-opening.

The No 1 agenda item: get the money out of politics. Most often cited was legislation to blunt the effect of the Citizens United ruling, which lets boundless sums enter the campaign process. No 2: reform the banking system to prevent fraud and manipulation, with the most frequent item being to restore the Glass-Steagall Act – the Depression-era law, done away with by President Clinton, that separates investment banks from commercial banks. This law would correct the conditions for the recent crisis, as investment banks could not take risks for profit that create kale derivatives out of thin air, and wipe out the commercial and savings banks.

No 3 was the most clarifying: draft laws against the little-known loophole that currently allows members of Congress to pass legislation affecting Delaware-based corporations in which they themselves are investors.


Can we drop this they don't know what they want shit now?

[coalition_unwilling]

17. K&R. Must hold my tongue or run the risk of imposing another 7-day exile

upon myself :)

[spanone]

20. he was on the wrong side in the sixties and he's on the wrong side now

[tomp]

68. exactly! king and obama, dem and repub, one agenda....

....prevent the left from having influence on policy.

[rhett o rick]

21. The lines are drawn. The police work for the 1%. nm

[SidDithers]

23. Unrec twinkles...

Sid

[former9thward]

29. The OP is factually wrong.

The DHS is not "answerable" to Peter King. He is not in their "chain of command". Their chain of command is one person and one person only, President Obama. The fact that there is a congressional committee on Homeland Security does not mean they take orders from them.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

36. well, they have nothing to counter this, so...

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. That's even worse, and has even worse implications.

[Zorra]

32. To the ports! nt

[hootinholler]

37. I have a problem with the article

In other words, for the DHS to be on a call with mayors, the logic of its chain of command and accountability implies that congressional overseers, with the blessing of the White House, told the DHS to authorise mayors to order their police forces – pumped up with millions of dollars of hardware and training from the DHS – to make war on peaceful citizens.

I don't think this is accurate. While King has an oversight role, he is not in the chain of command. I doubt the DHS told anyone to make war. However the culture that has been fostered over the last 10 years is one that would produce the sort of tactics we are seeing.

[Fire Walk With Me]

40. Internet at my house has been down since shortly after I posted this.

I do not know if it means anything at all. I'm not posting from my home ISP.

That is all :(

[Fire Walk With Me]

63. Internet is still down, I'm pulling a trick to even to even get online...

[jaxx]

42. The article is just an extension of the latest telephone game....don't play it.

Michael Moore Goes The Full Wingnut On President Obama Over Occupy ‘Crackdown’

<..> At the time Moore made the accusation, there was absolutely no evidence to support it. Hours later, he tweeted a link to a report that cited an unnamed “Justice official” saying that “while local police agencies had received tactical and planning advice from national agencies, the ultimate decision on how each jurisdiction handles the Occupy protests ultimately rests with local law enforcement.”

That’s some thin gruel to accuse the President, or anyone at the federal level, of “greenlighting” a crackdown, but it gets thinner. Some liberal blogs have attacked the credibility of the report based on the thin sourcing, and the fact that it comes from Examiner.com, a citizen journalism endeavor owned by conservative Phil Anschutz.

On its face, though, the report is of dubious credibility. The vague, weird attribution (“one Justice official…who spoke on background to me late Monday evening”) bear the fingerprints of an inexperienced leaker and leakee. I’m not saying the reporter made it up (I’m positive he didn’t, and he’s obviously working hard on the story), but the attribution telegraphs a low-level, no-authority source.

Moore then proceeded to urge his Twitter followers to spam President Obama (“Dear @BarackObama We luv ya but pls detail any #ows discussions btwn cities& HomelandSecurity&FBI// RT til he answers http://j.mp/ssseb9“), and Mayors Bloomberg and Quan, to explain this non-existent connection. To be clear, I’m all for holding those in authority accountable, but not for things that are made-up. Even if you buy the Examiner‘s source, he’s not even alleging federal coordination.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-goes-the-full-wingnut-on-president-obama-over-occupy-crackdown/

[Fire Walk With Me]

44. I haven't even read Mike's report. And I do always welcome new information and am willing

to say "I'm wrong" when I'm wrong.

It's just that the puzzle pieces keep falling so very well into place, day after day...I am an alarmist, because I believe that not enough are sufficiently alarmed.

[jaxx]

48. It looks like the whole thing was fabricated.

One 'source' and it has grown and gathered more mythology since then.

[Fire Walk With Me]

51. That is possible, however, it that were to have happened, importantly:

It would occur to fill the incredible vacuum created by multiple, systematic, brutal attacks upon peaceful citizens expressing their 1st Amendment rights.

In the space of a mere two months, how many people have been left bloodied and pepper-sprayed by Kops in riot gear? How many thousand jailed (rhetorical: Over 4,000)? How many camps cleared for no real reason at all except that they irritate the powers that be? Across the country? Four attacks in Oakland alone, how many in NYC, upon students...TEENAGERS!

How many politicians have said "For the love of God, stop!"?? Even to protect their own voters?

And how many attacks against Koch-funded, CNN beloved teabaggers? The difference is not in the "camping" excuse. Not at all.

Quite the "reasonable explanations" vacuum here. It's the size of the Boötes Void. And the pieces are coming together.

[jaxx]

54. Pieces can be cut to make them fit.

[Fire Walk With Me]

56. Of course. But to quote Tim the Enchanter:

"Look at the BONES, man!"

I'll be happy to be wrong. I'll be happier to be in some form right, so that we can solve this little, systematic, orchestrated, brutal, no word from anyone but Dennis Kuchinich, problem.

[Lorien]

61. And some people won't believe facts that get in the way of their goals

of re-electing a person who stands for nothing more than preserving the status quo and advancing the agenda of the 1%.

[PM Martin]

45. How does a legislative committee control a governmental agency

which is under the control of the executive branch?
The accusation you make seems illogical, unless I am missing something. :shrug:

[lamp_shade]

50. Is that the best "outrage" you could come up with today? Jeeze.

[Fire Walk With Me]

53. Look:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Peake/1791

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Fire%20Walk%20With%20Me/1787

Thank you for your support.

[mwrguy]

59. Since when does Peter King run DHS? That is Janet Napolitano & her boss Obama.

I wish I could blame it all on rethugs, but this is the executive branch we are talking about.

[and-justice-for-all]

64. Sounds like a fascist pig piece of shit to me...nt