Study of Marines shows guilt is top cause of PTSD

[undeterred]

A leading cause of post-traumatic stress disorder is guilt that troops experience due to moral dilemmas faced in combat, according to preliminary findings of a study of active-duty Marines. The conflicts that troops feel can range from survivor guilt from living through an attack where other troops died, to witnessing or participating in the unintentional killing of women or children, researchers involved in the study say.

"How do they come to terms with that? They have to forgive themselves for pulling the trigger," says retired Navy captain Bill Nash, a psychiatrist and study co-author. The idea of "moral injury" as a cause of PTSD is new to psychiatry. The American Psychiatric Association is only now considering new diagnostic criteria for the disorder that would include feelings of shame and guilt, says David Spiegel, a member of the working group rewriting the PTSD section.

Traditionally, PTSD symptoms such as nightmares or numbness to the world have been linked to combat violence, fear of being killed or loss of friends. Half of all Iraq and Afghanistan veterans treated by the Veterans Affairs have been diagnosed with mental health issues and the most common is PTSD, which is experienced by nearly 200,000 of these veterans, according to the VA.

PTSD caused by moral injury can lead to more severe reactions such as family violence or even suicide, says Jonathan Shay, a psychiatrist who has worked on military mental health policies. The Marine Corps study helps expand the knowledge of the relationship between moral injury and PTSD, says Shira Maguen, a psychologist and VA researcher who has studied links between killing and the disorder among Vietnam, Gulf War and Iraq War veterans.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2011-11-23/study-of-marines-ptsd/51386488/1

[KT2000]

1. It does not help that

the society they return to has a romanticized version of war. War is a suspension of a society's moral norms. That things do not always follow the script should surprise no one but it does. If we had a realistic view of war, returning vets would feel free to talk about their experiences but they do not. If they talk, it is to other vets who understand.
It is more of a moral disconnect for the civilians than it is for the vets. They experienced reality of war and most civilians do not waqnt to admit what war really is - their fantasy remains protected.

[xchrom]

5. Our voluntarily militarized society doesn't help.

Anything.

[Jackpine Radical]

2. And then there are the INTENTIONAL killings of innocents.

A good part of military training, starting in Basic, has to do with dehumanizing the "other." Gooks, Hajjis, etc. That makes it a lot easier to kill them. Otherwise decent soldiers can get caught up in doing things that they will never be able to live down without serious therapy, and the pressure in the military is against seeking help or admitting vulnerability.

[Arctic Dave]

3. Or the fact that they gleefully went invade and occupy a nation that posed no threat.

Oh rah that.

Not a word about the emotional destruction they caused on innocent people.


Boohoo MFer

[uppityperson]

8. Do you seriously have no empathy towards PTSDing vets?

Do you really think every PTSDing vet ""gleefully went invade and occupy"?

"Not a word about the emotional destruction they caused on innocent people"? Maybe you didn't read the OP article since it was about guilt.

Personally I've a lot of empathy for PTSDing vets and find this article very interesting. Shame on your "boohoo MRer".

[Arctic Dave]

16. Almost none.

Sucks to be them. Next time they should listen to the people that told them they would regret their stupid actions.

[undeterred]

10. Bush Cheney Rummy and Condi were the gleeful ones

and they didn't have a single moment of guilt or PTSD.

[mwrguy]

12. +1 They were volunteers

Nobody forced them to commit war crimes.

[Warpy]

4. That's what I used to tell friends who'd survived Vietnam

They had PTSD precisely because they weren't psychopaths. Oddly, it did seem to help a little when they heard that.

[undeterred]

6. Its really a mind-f**k to follow orders and then

lose your sanity because of what your country ordered you to do.

[JVS]

7. "How do they come to terms with that? They have to forgive themselves for pulling the trigger."

Do they have to forgive themselves? Should they? Maybe they should be more circumspect about what they're doing, not only on the field but also when they volunteer for it.

[uppityperson]

9. Interesting article, thank you. k&r

[firehorse]

11. I'm not surprised... witnessing and being powerless to violence leaves an impact on the psyche

I don't know how anyone can come out of war without deep psychic scars. I've got PTSD without going to war, its not one trauma that causes it. Its caused from several events clustered up without time in between to process.

[SoDesuKa]

13. Applebee's Offers a Free Meal Once a Year

Applebee's free meal once a year is America's way of "giving back" to the veteran. One of these years I'll make it there for my free meal, but so far I've been kept away by the prospect of being thanked for my service. I think I might say, Why don't you just give me the free meal? but nobody would understand. Heck, there are veterans here who don't see the point.

I was an 11B20 in a grunt unit that took a lot of casualties. People who have no standing at all come up and thank me for my service and get offended if I don't respond in kind. So I avoid giving them the opportunity. I feel like saying, "You have no standing to thank me." Unfortunately, it would go right over their heads.

Troubled veterans - and there are many such veterans - know that civilians don't care about them, They know that civilians don't want to re-evaluate America's dysfunctional relationship with the people who fight our screwy wars.



Kitsch patriotism is cheap and meaningless.

[CreekDog]

14. If Applebee's really wanted to help, they'd offer a meal from somewhere else

:hide:

[undeterred]

15. "Freedom isn't Free"

I have a yellow ribbon bumper sticker to show my support for the troops and I'm wearing a red shirt on Friday... cause those things really help.

:sarcasm:

[Bigmack]

17. My least favorite is ....

"Thank you for defending our freedoms."

Killing and brutalizing darker people is somehow defending our freedoms...?

I don't do it often, but one woman said that, and when I said "I didn't defend our freedoms." She kept asking why I felt that way, until I told her I did 4 years in the Corps... 13 months in country... and I never... ever... defended our freedoms.

She was baffled.

[lunatica]

18. That's because war is immoral

Period. War is a crime against humanity, and that includes against soldiers who are allowed to believe it's honorable in any way at all. War is a crime from beginning to end. And it is not a natural state of humanity. If it were soldiers and civilians in wars would be the best adjusted people in the world. Child soldiers and children growing up in war zones would be the happiest people in the world. How people don't see this is way beyond me.

This PTSD shit happens in every single war. They just call it something different. In WWI an WWII they called it battle fatigue. Now they call it moral wounds. Fuck! When are they going to realize all this could stop if we stopped having wars so the rich can get richer, or to exploit countries for their resources, or to make gun runners and manufacturers richer or to have some Superpower edge.

What will it take to stop being brainwashed and manipulated into fucking our lives up for the Plutocrats' benefit. It's not the soldiers who get fucked up. It fucks up their families and it fucks up the people they go to war with and the people who get family members killed. What fucking price do we have to pay to realize war is not in our best interest.

War is immoral.