Willie Nelson: It’s time for the rich to pay up

[kpete]

Willie Nelson: It’s time for the rich to pay up

By David Edwards
Thursday, November 17, 2011


“Once the people have had enough, they start speaking and they’ll start doing what they’re doing,” Nelson told KSAT’s Paul Venema. “I’m proud of them for doing it.”

“I pay my taxes and some of those guys up there don’t,” he noted. “And those are the ones that I’m pissed off at, the ones that make millions of dollars a year and don’t pay any taxes.”

Nelson said he was also enjoying watching the Republican presidential debates.

“It’s the best thing on TV, watching those guys scramble and try to clean up what they screw up,” he observed with a chuckle.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/17/willie-nelson-its-time-for-the-rich-to-pay-up/

[ProdigalJunkMail]

1. Willie Nelson talking about paying taxes?

yeah...okey dokey. the irony is thick...

sP

[greytdemocrat]

2. Beat me to it... n/t

[eShirl]

11. You too.

[izquierdista]

3. So you think he fills out a return?

Willie sings.....and drinks.....and smokes. If it involves anything else, people tell him where to sign his name. Sometimes he trusts the wrong people when he signs his name.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. you sign your name to your tax return... you take ownership of the numbers there

it's really pretty simple.

sP

[Major Nikon]

6. and he did take ownership

He paid his back tax bill with penalties, then he sued his accountant.

[Major Nikon]

5. Willie was the victim of a crooked accountant

He negotiated a settlement with the IRS and paid it off over time.

[KatyMan]

8. Plus we got 2 great albums out of it

or at least a 2 album set, The IRS Tapes.

[northoftheborder]

9. This is correct.

Good ol' Willie, I love him more all the time. And he still can sing great songs.

[newspeak]

16. thank you.

Willie trusted the wrong person and he has PAID for it.

[eShirl]

10. WOW are you ever uninformed. n/t

[spanone]

19. he paid his. paid the penalties too.

[hulka38]

23. I think he's all paid up.

The snakes on Wall Street should be paying a lot more than their secretaries.

[dkf]

7. He must be talking about himself.

[brentspeak]

20. Or maybe he's talking about Obama's Secretary of Offshoring, Jeff Immelt n/t

[Leftist Agitator]

12. For everyone giving Willie Nelson shit about his history with the IRS...

From Wikipedia:

During 1990 Nelson's assets were seized by the Internal Revenue Service, that claimed that he owed US $32,000,000. It was later discovered that his accountants, Price Waterhouse did not pay Nelson's taxes for years. The impossibility of Nelson to pay his outstanding debt was aggravated by weak investments made by him during the 1980s. Nelson released in 1991 The IRS Tapes: Who'll Buy My Memories?, the profits of the double album, destined to the IRS and the auction of Nelson's assets cleared his debt by 1993.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Nelson

So yeah, the man is entitled to have an opinion. He didn't willfully cheat on his taxes.

[Major Nikon]

13. The rest of the story is pretty complex

Willie had a habit of making money and giving it away to the people around him. He did things like throwing huge picnic concerts where most people didn't pay. One of his roadies got to talking to him about taking out a loan from the bank for $50K. Willie dug around, found an old royalty check for $50K and signed it over to him. He never accounted for his money, because he always did and always does live for the moment. Willie paid people to take care of his money and didn't get involved because he just didn't care that much. When the IRS went after him, they wanted to know where all the money went and Willie just didn't know. The IRS assumes that all the money you can't account for went into your pocket. In Willie's case it didn't. He could have filed chapter 7 immediately and once his assets were liquidated he wouldn't have owed the IRS anything. He did eventually file bankruptcy, but not before working out a deal with the IRS and he did eventually pay them back, with interest and penalties.

[unblock]

14. getting out of irs debt via bankruptcy is not at all that easy.

bankruptcy certainly does not mean an automatic discharge of even one penny of irs debt.

in willie's case, given his ongoing income-earning potential, it's quite unlikely that any of his irs debt would have been discharged.

[Major Nikon]

18. I think a good lawyer could have gotten him out of most of it

At that point in his career, his earning potential was significantly diminished because he wasn't writing chart topping songs anymore. So on a chapter 7 deal I'm sure they could have convinced a judge to knock down his settlement significantly. Willie took the opposite approach. He put out a new double album and he went back on the road and he paid off his debt in 3 years. That was a pretty good accomplishment.

[dkf]

30. So he gave them the money and they didn't pay it?

[dkf]

31. So he gave them the money and they didn't pay it?

[Remember Me]

15. Okay, let's at least put it this way --

No matter how "responsible" Willie was or should have been, his tax evasion was at least inadvertent. Their tax evasion -- too much of it completely legal (loopholes) -- is fully intentional.

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Moral of the story: be a longhaired weed smoking outlaw country musician

and your tax evasion is *POOF* rationalized and forgiven, and your credibility becomes unquestioned.

Don't believe me? Fine...every place you see "Willie Nelson," just write in "Toby Keith."

[Warren DeMontague]

21. mah god! he's a MAN with LONG HAIR who SMOKES TEH POT!???!!!

I bet he's fornicated outside the confines of a Christ-Centric Marriage, too.



Nice of you to stick up for (sniff!) Toby Keith, though.

Still, here's one other difference between Willie Nelson and Toby Keith: Toby Keith is (like Michael Bolton) a no-talent assclown.

[unblock]

22. yup. sorry, there's really being so oblivious to your money you don't know your taxes aren't paid.

sure, if a crooked accountant puts your tax payments into his own private account instead of sending it to the irs, ok, that i understand.

but if the money remains in your own account, you really should be on top of things enough to know, hey, i've got a LOT more money in my account than i should.

why? because YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for your taxes. NO ARMY OF accountants or lawyers can take this responsibility away from you. they can give you assitance and advice, but YOU have to make the final decisions and YOU have to live with the consequences.

[Major Nikon]

24. Willie was the victim of embezzlement

And while the IRS certainly will hold you responsible, that doesn't mean there aren't mitigating circumstances. It wasn't as if Willie was hording money in offshore accounts and deliberately evading taxes. There are plenty of people and businesses who get on the wrong side of the IRS through no fault of their own. No one person can be expected to know all the details of where there money is coming and going when there is that much of it involved via multiple business enterprises. That's why Willie hired a company of accountants and a separate auditing company to oversee his finances.

There are plenty of people who are square with the IRS, but still manage to evade taxes, screw other people, and enrich themselves in the process. Donald Trump is a prime example. Those are the situations Willie is imploring congress to fix. There's nothing hypocritical about it.

[former9thward]

26. He was deliberately evading taxes.

His accountant, Price Waterhouse, had put his money in illegal offshore accounts. Because of this he did not pay taxes for years. The IRS said he owed $32 million and he finally settled for less than half that -- and he still didn't pay. He waited until he put out new albums.

[Major Nikon]

28. I don't believe that

And to make the statement that Willie was deliberately evading taxes has no basis and runs contrary to anyone who actually knows Willie had to say on the matter. I'm not sure where you're getting that Price Waterhouse had is money in offshore accounts. Willie said they were overstating the loses and operating expenses on his cattle businesses.

As far as the tax shelters he had invested in went, the IRS doesn't tell you up front if they are "illegal" or not. You find out when and if they audit you. So to say Willie knew they weren't legal up front is a pretty big stretch. Furthermore the IRS doesn't set the initial amount from an audit in what they can prove you owe them. They simply take what they think you made and give you the maximum figure based on zero deductions. The number is almost always greatly inflated and they leave it up to the person to negotiate the number down based on what they actually made and what deductions they may have had.

[Remember Me]

27. and he did live with the consequences, what's your beef?

(So many fucking self-righteous, pnotificating moralists around here. Who the hell let 'em in??)

Oh, and if you PAY your accountant or business manager to take care of things for you and have a contract, they ARE ultimately responsible and that's why he sued them. Doesn't shift the burden with the IRS to them, but they have a fiduciary responsibility. Of course, isn't it conveeeeenient for such people who can make, um, errors and even outright steal from you to be able to hide behind such a policy?

Reminds me of something I ran across recently. Not sure if it applies only to my state or elsewhere. I saw my chiropractor and asked if I could postdate a check. They were fine with me paying a few days later, but the office manager said, "Oh, no it's against the law for me to accept a post-dated check. I'll put a sticky on it, don't worry. Just date it today, though." That's odd, I thought. I've only been going there 20 years or so, so I had no trouble believing she'd honor my request, but it seemed very odd for a post-dated check to be ILLEGAL.

Not too long after that I opened an account at my local Credit Union. Later, when I had a chance to go over all that fine printed stuff, I discovered a provision squarely against writing post-dated checks. But if you DID write a post-dated check and somehow it slipped through and got cashed, you agreed not to blame the bank (er. credit union). IOW: the whole thing is to enable the banks to squirm out of their responsibility for properly taking care of your checks. All of the RESPONSIBILITY always goes back to the poor sap who gets screwed by someone else's failure at their fiduciary responsibilities. So conveeeeenient.

[unblock]

29. i don't have a problem with willie screwing up and taking the hit.

i have a problem with people acting as if he were completely innocent in all this.
he may have been absent malice, but he was hardly an innocent bystander.

[Remember Me]

33. Oh, you want to be able to be all judgmental about him

heap opprobrium upon his head; punish him with you disdain.

I get it.

[unblock]

34. seems like you're disdaining and judgmental of me.

i guess i have this crazy notion that people should pay their taxes.
sorry that seems to offend you.

[Remember Me]

25. If Toby Keith had committed this "crime" under the exact same

circumstances, minus long hair and weed, I'd feel exactly the same about it.

BTW: Toby Keith is a Democrat. Not a very GOOD (i.e., liberal) Democrat IMO, but a Dem nonetheless. I'd feel the same way about a Republican -- IF I felt I could believe the story about him since they're so often so joined-at-the-hip with their every cent.

[BlueMTexpat]

32. I'm a longtime fan of Willie's and I truly resent those

upthread (and any below who follow suit who might do the same) who took this opportunity to snipe at him for his troubles with the IRS without knowing - or verifying - any of the facts.

Thanks to those who actually posted the facts!

Willie's IRS problems have been resolved for a LONG time and he certainly has earned the right to speak his piece.

But it is interesting to see how many posters actually "outed" themselves in this thread. I had wondered about some before.

Now I know.