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Yes, We Did Execute Japanese for Waterboarding

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 08:30 AM
Original message
Yes, We Did Execute Japanese for Waterboarding
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/yes-inational-reviewi-we_b_191153.html

Paul Begala
CNN political commentator
Posted April 24, 2009 | 06:21 PM (EST)

In a CNN debate with Ari Fleischer, I said the United States executed Japanese war criminals for waterboarding. My point was that it is disingenuous for Bush Republicans to argue that waterboarding is not torture and thus illegal. It's kind of awkward to argue that waterboarding is not a crime when you hanged someone for doing it to our troops. My precise words were: "Our country executed Japanese soldiers who waterboarded American POWs. We executed them for the same crime we are now committing ourselves."

Mr. Fleischer, ordinarily the most voluble of men, was tongue-tied. The silence, rare in cable debates, spoke volumes for the vacuity of his position.

But I was not referring to Asano, nor was my source Sen. Kennedy. Instead I was referencing the statement of a different member of the Senate: John McCain. On November 29, 2007, Sen. McCain, while campaigning in St. Petersburg, Florida, said, "Following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."

Sen. McCain was right and the National Review Online is wrong. Politifact, the St. Petersburg Times' truth-testing project (which this week was awarded a Pulitzer Prize), scrutinized Sen. McCain's statement and found it to be true. Here's the money quote from Politifact:

"McCain is referencing the Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as 'water cure,' 'water torture' and 'waterboarding,' according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning." Politifact went on to report, "A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps."
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmmmm!!!! :) Don't give us ideas. lol
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, and I believe that most of us here knew that when we learned that
the US was using this method of interrogation.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Ten years ago when we learned this some DUers were very young
Edited on Sun Nov-13-11 09:19 AM by NNN0LHI
Some were only 8 or 9 years-old back then.

What are the chances they remember this discussion?

Don't think this is worth repeating since we now have GOP candidates running for president saying they endorse using this torture technique?

Don
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. I saw Michelle Bachman on MTP this morning stating that she would waterboard
suspected terrorists.

MR. GREGORY: No, no, let me just make the point. Your view that waterboarding should be reinstituted, you understand that puts you at odds with most of the generals, OK, the former Republican nominee of your party John McCain, General Colin Powell. You realize you're on the opposite end of what they believe? Do you not trust them and their views?

REP. BACHMANN: Well, but what, but I, but I'm on the same side as Vice President Cheney on this issue, and others as well. Because, I, again, what we're looking at is what will save American lives. And that's what the most important thing is. We've got, we've got to decide that we want to defeat the terrorists. And when we make that decision, we need to, we need to employ the methods that will best help us to defeat them. And President Obama is not doing that. Again, President Obama was given a war that is won in Iraq, and he's choosing to lose the peace. That's a desecration of the memory of 4400 Americans that gave their lives to liberate Iraq. And also, it's over $800 billion that we have expended. I believe that Iraq should pay us back for the money that we spent. And I believe that Iraq should pay the families that lost a loved one several million dollars per life...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45276821/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/t/meet-press-transcript-november/
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. She's on the same side with CHICKEN HAWKS.
The term chicken hawk is the greatest insult. And I always mean to insult Dick Asshole Cheney with as much vigor as possible.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. It isn't something that is mentioned all that often, though.
It bears repeating now and then.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. rec.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. There is such an abundance of evidence that the bushes
tortured POWs they held in captivity, that there is no excuse for allowing bush, cheney et.al. their continued freedom from justice. Not only did the bushes use the tried and true method the Japanese used in WWII but they raped, starved and used other horrific techniques. And not only did agents representing the US torture POWs held in captivity by the US, but they were clearly authorized to torture by the president himself. He brags about it in his book.

Obama and the US Attorney General are now complicit in the bushes war crimes. Are we officially a banana republic yet?

Justice may take a long time, but it comes with heavy feet.

A horrific act by another name is still torture.

"The Tokyo Trials, officially known as the International Military Tribunal for the Far East. After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as 'water cure,' 'water torture' and 'waterboarding,' according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning." Politifact went on to report, "A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps.""




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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. +1,000,000
I could not agree more!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. "Obama and the US Attorney General are now complicit in the bushes war crimes."
"Are we officially a banana republic yet?" We are. The only thing missing is the bananas. Looks like we are following the Pappy Bush playbook.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. +1 n/t
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. k&r..
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R #26 n/t
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. We hanged Nazis for Wars Of Agression, too.
How is it that bu$h/chenee/rumsfailed/etc have escaped this long?

:freak:

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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. They have escaped prosecution
because the Obama Administration agreed not to pursue justice. Come on. Isn't this perfectly obvious?

Why didn't Obama get swift-boated leading up to the 2008 election? This shit does not happen in a vacuum.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. remember that you can now add Sarkozy, Obama, etc. to that list. nt.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. There it is, there.
K/R
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. K&R'd
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. But we're different. We're Americans. We rule the world. We do whatever we want.
Until we're broke.

Time marches on, America marches backwards.

Not all Americans, though.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. That was soooo mid-20th-centuryish, we are a forward-looking nation, and this is
soooo the 21st-century, the new American century (PNAC) of junior's pre-emptive wars, invasion, occupation, torture, and global hegemony. :patriot:
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t
-Laelth
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MichiganVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Another reason why Americans died on 9/11. Two faced America.
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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
32. Bullshit
Americans died on 9-11-01 because 19 assholes hijacked planes and intentionally crashed them into population centers.


But...if that thought makes yo feel better, so be it.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. If you think that happened in a vacuum then you'll believe anything you are told
by spinners of fiction.

If it makes you feel better to think our actions and policies don't create blowback and that we aren't creating whole generations of "assholes", so be it, but that shit ain't real.
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lordsummerisle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. k&r n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
19. Thanks for the truth -- !! And still part of military law -- !!
I'd have no problem with putting W, Rumsfeld and Cheney under execution orders --

though I am against capital punishment.

It's treason to so mislead this nation!!


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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
20. Shouldn't Mr. Begala direct his comments to AG Holder? "Bush Republicans" aren't in charge of
the Justice Department. :hi:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. How is AG Holder
different than the Bush AG?
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Not afraid of boobs and calico kitties? nt.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. Exactly......nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. Makes up for it with extreme Reefer madness, though. Just a *different kind* of fundie. nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. AG Holder has escalated the war on Medical Marijuana users to levels unheard of during GW Bush
That's one major difference. :shrug:
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ScottLand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. I agree we should still be talking about this. Obama's attitude
about this has also hurt us, because he framed it as a difference in policy, when it's clearly an illegal act. Expect the Rethugs to resume it right away. This is what will define us as good or bad people collectively. We have to get better at replacing the ridiculous "it keeps us safe" notion with the more correct "it's morally wrong" truth.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. And the stupid people who support torture don't realize
that when politicians get tired of torturing POWs, they move on to torturing their own citizens.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. There ya go...................nt
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-14-11 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
30.  we let this guy go because we wanted his code to his 'research'
http://www.technologyartist.com/unit_731/

this provided the usa with valuable information on what a human can endure before they die.
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