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I think what scares the Oligarchs more than anything else about OWS

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:23 AM
Original message
I think what scares the Oligarchs more than anything else about OWS
Edited on Thu Nov-10-11 11:33 AM by Jackpine Radical
is that they can't understand it, they can't get a conceptual grip on what they're dealing with, and they are discovering that have no effective tools. The old smash & bash "riot control" that I remember from the 60's now gets turned against the cops because everything gets captured on video. So what are they going to do? Distract, demonize, project, seek to crank up the ambient fear level (like with that incredible Bush-era color terror alert business; Migod, they were trying to use those colors like a thermostat so they could turn the fear level up or down as needed for the political moment!).

I expect that they will at some point in the near future attempt to impose some controls on the Internet. This will fail, as will everything else that they try.

There may be some short-term setbacks for the Movement, but in the long run the Oligarchs cant win. Today's young people swim in a sea of information unlike anything we old farts could have imagined in our childhoods. They take this environment for granted, they understand it, they have developed an almost biological need for their connections, and they will do what it takes to keep the system that provides those connections running.

The Establishment has no idea of what it's up against. Just think of the symbolism of the "human microphone!" This supposedly disorganized mob instantly organized itself as needed to solve the task at hand. The Occupy Movement is like the perfect science-fiction monster. It's far smarter than its Establishment opposition. Every time it is attacked, it morphs to answer the attack. The cameras are everywhere, everyone is plugged in, the whole thing is like a super-organism. The various components of the Oligopoly are necessarily and inherently structured in a spider-style, and the very nature of their structure renders them unable to account for the astonishing ability of the "starfish" movement to form and reform itself, to invent and instantly implement wildly creative responses to the challenges it faces.

I think the new interconnectedness of humanity is turning the species into a transpersonal entity with emergent properties that we cannot even guess at as yet.

I further think that OWS (and its predecessors worldwide going back to Tripoli) is one of the first significant actions of this new transpersonal "being."


(Note: "Starfish" & "Spider" are references to the Brafman & Beckstrom book.)
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Add the fact that this protest has no national boundaries....
... and the PTB are indeed terrified.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
66. That's what I think. When they PTB see the little people in Egypt,
Canada, Israel, etc. all communicating and finding common cause they seriously take notice.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R !!! n/t
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. And like a supersaturated solution, one tiny crystal set it off..
His name was Mohammed Bouazizi.



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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. May he rest in peace
I hope that if there is an afterlife, that he knows what he started and that his sacrifice was not in vain.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. There are miles to go before his sacrifice is redeemed...
But I hear what you're saying and I hope it is.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. {{{{{{Robert Frost}}}}}}}}
Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village, though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.

My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.

He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there's some mistake.
The only other sound's the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. Just for you.
Not that I'm a fan of poetry or anything, but I had to go looking around and I found this.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. I was reading an Anonymous twitter account last night
The AnonymousIRC account.

The person who was tweeting was talking about how the struggle is as old as time, but that now technology has gotten beyond the control of the oligarchs. They said that no government had ever been up against a collective consciousness before.

So the oligarchs have no idea what's going on or what to do or how to predict how the collective consciousness will react, but we know about them. We know how they will react. They don't learn from history, but we do.

It will take time, and it will be bloody. But we will win.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Thanks for that. Eerie how closely that tweeter's thoughts parallel mine.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. Of course the tweeter's thoughts parallel yours--and mine--
because we are all PART of that collective consciousness, as is everyone on DU. Maybe us old fogeys can never be as much at home in the Internet group consciousness as the young folks are since we didn't grow up with it. But to the extent that we participate, we are still part of the swarm, the group consciousness. What an incredible thing to wrap your mind around...
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. If you could download what's in my mind,
you would rejoice because it confirms everything you've said in your marvelous OP and adds a gazillion angles to each point you make.

I have too much to say about this, so I'll have to confine myself to a few licks told from a certain perspective.

Our collective consciousness has passed an important threshold. A tipping point was reached this year, 2011.
A sufficient number of humans have now taken the red pill.



Watch out! That means a quantum leap in social development lies ahead since it's individuals on the cutting edge who will cut the grooves that the mass of any given society will be pulled into in a spiral of ever higher development.

A high enough number of disobedient Ones have hacked into the Matrix and seen through its programming code. Their awareness of what is real and what is pretentiously fake has gone viral. It has infected the human collective to such an extent that many are now able to manipulate the Matrix itself. They have become Neo - the One - the individual who enters a unified consciousness that is less afraid of death than of losing its freedom to self-express. That is because this consciousness *knows* itself to exist in many dimensions simultaneously. So it constantly seeks fresh tastes of its deathless nature by challenging the agents of the status quo - the Matrix enforcers called Smith - who are replicants intent on creating more replicants who numbly obey the dictates of an increasingly obsolete social program.



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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Percy Bysshe Shelley - The Mask of Anarchy
'And that slaughter to the Nation
Shall steam up like inspiration,
Eloquent, oracular;
A volcano heard afar.

'And these words shall then become
Like Oppression's thundered doom
Ringing through each heart and brain,
Heard again - again - again -

'Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number -
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you -
Ye are many - they are few.'

:applause:
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
92. And seriously....Wow...I meant it and mean it :)
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. Thank you. n/t
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
82. Yes, and Anonymous is part of this also. They are the hackers who
find the info and find ways to use it. It is not just those of us (young and old) who are following this on the internet it is all of us who find a way to fight the injustice. A many pronged attack on evil.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R... a new consciousness is developing...
or at least I very much hope so. That's certainly how it seems... despite the protestations of a very loud and obnoxious few who still claim not to get it, or to somehow believe the lies the oligarchs have used for centuries to keep the hoi polloi in line.
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RevStPatrick Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. "Today's young people swim in a sea of information..."
Ain't that the truth!

I know an "old fart" who is computer illiterate.
He's got a "big personality" and constantly makes up facts.
When he says something particularly egregious, I will sometimes go to the google.
It's amazing how defensive he will get when clearly proved wrong.
I will do the same thing with low-info people on Facebook.

And I think that's the reason why, in the long run, the oligarchy won't win this, as you suggest.
It's just gotten too easy to get a clear picture of reality (if one wants it).
Young people today are not that gullible, and won't hesitate to find the truth.
Which is usually only a few clicks away...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Some of the individual "cells" in the Superbrain may not want the information
but the overall Collective Consciousness wants and needs that information. The long arc of cultural development is always toward the greater capacity, the greater reality connection. Language gave us the ability to plan, writing gave us the ability to store information more effectively, the printing press gave us the power to spread information more readily, and the Internet not only gives us access to the species database, but permits us to interconnect and form evanescent, ad hoc structures that dissolve when the need is ended and form in different patterns when new needs arise.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. "Access to the species database..."
what an incredible concept, and even more amazing for being totally true!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. And that is why the web is the next target
They know they are leading with an insurgency and when nails are all they see...
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I seriously expect an attack on the internet in the form of trying to make it
unaffordable to the masses, but that will fail because businesses are too dependent on it for income and marketing.
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barbiegeek Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
63. OMG-That is why the attacking NET NEUTRALITY. make it unaffordable to the massses!
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Well, controllable anyway.
They essentially want the Net as a marketing tool & means of pushing their propaganda. They want the commercial intertests to have it for marketing, & want their propaganda outlets to have it as a mind control medium; they just don't want the unwashed clogging it up with their populist nonsense.


They will not succeed.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Then we all need to plan for it or an alternative
Have no idea what form it must take or the how's or where's but it definitely needs at least a little bit of thought on how to get around it, under it, through it, over it...........
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Personally I suggest shopping for modems.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. Geez, no landline. Sure hope there aren'tmany people out there like me...
House doesn't even have a jack for a phone line.

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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
86. You are suggesting setting up our own servers?
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
46. Kinko's is your friend. Seriously, in the 60s, they had to rely
on offset presses and mimeograph machines.

Even without the internet, we can produce and reproduce material faster than TPTB can stamp it out. See the old USSR and the rise of the 'samizdat' for a hint of how this will work, should the access to the internet somehow become contested.
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Populist_Prole Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Aint that the truth
I deal with several friends and relatives who are just like that. Basically low info curmudgeons. Their computer literacy ( usually on aol dialup ) limits itself to pretty much reading and forwarding hysterical right wing email forwards ( usually in ridiculous large multicolored font, replete with stupid graphics depicting bald eagles and US flags and such ) that they honestly believe are true, despite the fact they are usually recycled or thoroughly debunked years ago. They see the "buzz" from OWS that's not going away and are just now, it seems, beginning to become aware they are more or less irrelevant: It's making them madder and madder and their tones are becoming more strident.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #28
75. When did you meet my in--laws ??
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Populist_Prole Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #75
103. They're probably close friends of my father. The 6 or less degrees of separation and all
After all; all those stupid email forwards usually exhort...and very energetically: "Send this to everybody you know!!!"
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #103
108. Now I know for sure that they are friends....
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Philosopher King Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. "The Establishment has no idea of what it's up against. "
Sure they do--that is how they became the "establishment."

Conversely, OWSers thought that they were changing the world when they helped elect Obama in 2008. Now that the thrill is gone, the little darlings have discovered that real change, in the real world, requires hard work, sacrifice and a long-term commitment.

Wise men put their trust in ideas and not in circumstances. - Ralph Waldo Emerson




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bengalherder Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Little darlings
Edited on Thu Nov-10-11 12:10 PM by bengalherder
princesses and pony lovers unite!

You have nothing to lose but threatened trolls who truly do no 'get it' and are angry that others see the cosmic joke when they themselves are blinded to it as a result of facing in the wrong direction!


'You were not put on this earth to 'get it', Mr Burton' -David LoPan


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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
85. Me thinks you misunderstand the Philosopher King
I suspect what he's reacting to is the tremulous glow that we find on DU viv a vis OWS.
He only suggests that the establishment is more powerful then you think.
I was at Zuccotti Park, the feeling there is great, I hadn't felt that energy since the 60s
But then there was this guy in an army jacket that walked by me and under his breath
said "bunch of commie cocksuckers", which brought home the point that this is
not going to be a walk in the park, and I think that's what the poster was saying
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Um, yeah. They just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Blah blah blah ... gumption hard work ... blah blah blah... get off my lawn

I get it
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Philosopher King Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. You said that, not me.
My point is that real change requires more than pulling a voting lever and then waiting for someone else to do the work.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. like taking to the streets, you mean?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. So, what 'hard work, sacrifice and long-term commitment are you practicing?
What you preach?
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. What you say doesn't make any sense at all
You might want to engage the brain before you type.
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beltanefauve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. I'm pretty sure
99 percent of us didn't help elect Obama.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. the OWSers seem far too perceptive and independent to be the Obama C*ltists of '08
the ones who said that voting Dem would solve all our problems and that we didn't need work and commitment outside of that were the very ones throwing scorn on those criticizing the system as a whole. The fervent, Trujillesque Presidential loyalists focus on the person, not the politics: they're the ones who said that Obama will make all liberal dreams come true, but it's okay if his actions are the opposite, because he's The One. To be fair, this mindest has crumbled rapidly over the years.

protesters and proto-OWSers have known for decades that we need work and commitment; they're the ones who've been saying that if voting changed anything it wouldn't be allowed
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
56. well, some were hoping-after eight years of the fear, lying
greedy bullshite under little boot's, many thought anything was better than the previous administration-an administration, I might add that was selected by some of our unesteemed supreme court. You might say, the coup was initiated. You can read on DU, those, including myself, worried about our economic state then. Knew little boot's obscene tax cuts to those who weren't creating decent jobs, but creating jobs overseas while still being rewarded, more deregulation on wall street, california governor davis pleading with little boot's to allow regulation of enron in california because the people were being pillaged, and those states who had stricter loan regulations were forced to allow the sharks in.

Oh, we knew--also knew that clinton passed poppy's NAFTA-GAtt, rescinded glass-steagal, rescinded the fairness doctrine and passed the telecommunications act of 1996. Clinton was one of poppy's favorite sons. Let's just say the blinders are off on what the family on the hill think about the people. Most of it, to me, is pure kabuki theater. Of course, I will never, ever vote for a repug unless he/she is honest and starts talking like FDR.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. The right had an advantage on the first generation of computerized politics
The strategy they perfected going back to the 1970's involved computerized mailing lists, often assembled by sending out fundraising appeals and keeping lists of the people who responded -- with different right-wing organizations then swapping lists around to create master lists.

These master lists were then used in targeted last-minute get-out-the-vote operations, which were often extremely effective. Several of the campaign funding scandals since the 1990's have involved last-minute infusions of cash, which were devoted to get-out-the-vote efforts and which came late enough that they didn't have to be reported until after the the election. And cases where elections appeared to have been stolen because the results did not match earlier polls were regularly explained away as the result of a superior get-out-the-vote effort.

These tactics have worked well for them -- so well that the Koch brothers are now reportedly compiling the mother of all mailing lists for use in 2012. But that was only the first computer generation -- and it was overwhelmingly centralized, top-down, and tangled up with illegal campaign practices.

It was also essentially pre-Internet.

The right continued to have an edge in the early days of the Internet -- the Drudge Report, for example. But the wider Net access became -- blogs, social media -- the more the left swarmed in and took over. And they did it in a decentralized, bottom-up manner that baffles the right.

This is one reason the right keeps coming up with screwy conspiracy theories involving ACORN being behind OWS. It's not just that they're trying to slime the left. It's that they can't conceive of a political movement that isn't based on secret money-men and behind-the-scenes puppet masters. They really believe that's the way the universe works, and it's going to mislead them at every turn.

It's become commonplace to say that new-era politics boil down to the power of money vs. the power of an engaged populace. But it isn't just about power -- it's about the way that power is organized. And the right has a complete blind spot about the way power works on the left that is now their greatest weakness.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I like your analysis here.
And I think you're right.

Always in the past there was some leader you could kill or imprison--MLK, the Chicago 7 (or 8, as you will)--or, at last resort, negotiate with. But not this time. It makes them nuts; they've never seen it before, and they can't credit what they're seeing. Groups of people aren't supposed to function like that.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. To an extent, it's like the studies on schools of fish and flocks of birds
In those situations, there's no one leader giving the orders. Instead, each member of the group is keeping an eye on its neighbors and constantly adjusting its own position to respond to subtle clues of a change in direction. The initiation of those changes does result from a kind of leadership -- but one that grows out of initiative and reputation and doesn't involve giving orders.

This sort of thing has been studied in terms of chimpanzees deciding its time to move from one clearing to another. After they've been in one location for a while, some members of the group may start getting up and trying to head out, but the rest of the group won't necessarily follow unless the ones who are moving are acknowledged trend-setters. It's a lot like high school kids spotting a trend and deciding whether or not it's worth getting on board.

This isn't the whole story, of course, because in the case of something like OWS there's also a moral and cultural appeal that helps determine what direction the group will move. But it's where the basic mechanisms come from -- and the right, which is so centered around authority and following orders, will never understand it.

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. Very true - great post and great thread!
Re "It's become commonplace to say that new-era politics boil down to the power of money vs. the power of an engaged populace. But it isn't just about power -- it's about the way that power is organized. And the right has a complete blind spot about the way power works on the left that is now their greatest weakness."

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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. I remember a song by Bob Dylon from the sixties with a verse
"There's something going on here, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. Jones"
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ah, the "Emergent"...
The brain gains self-awareness when a particular number of neural connections are made.

How many people are connecting...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. The self-aware planet is in an embryonic stage
and already its power is unprecedented.
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nykym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
22. I Liked the reference to Spiders and starfish
Starfish being able to regenerate a limb if it is lost while Spiders can regenerate while young and able to moult. In most cases adult male spiders loose that ability, some females are able to regenerate as long as they can moult. It is a perfect analogy.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. Olberman showed Guiliani commenting on OWS the other day ... "Get a job!" was his reaction --!!
Simply outrageous -- couldn't have been more callous and insensitive to what's

going on in America. What an absolute criminal and jerk!


However -- you can bet they're thinking about what to do next --

it never ends with them.

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. Mic check!
:thumbsup:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. The revolution won't be televised, it will be available as a podcast on iTunes.
:evilgrin:
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. "I think the new interconnectedness of humanity
is turning the species into a transpersonal entity with emergent properties that we cannot even guess at as yet."

Like a growing collective empathy?

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
47. I certainly hope so.
By way of analogy to brain development, I think it is likely to happen. YouTube is a helluva lot like a mirror-neuron system, if you think about it.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Collective empathy, definitely. Where was I just reading about that online...
What hurts one of us, hurts all of us. What overjoys one of us, overjoys all of us. This is how we are "suddenly" so very quickly digging up and exposing all of the old crap we shall no longer tolerate, and air it for all to see (and summarily reject).

Like a child searching for beautiful things, which are its birthright, and it knows it and will not settle for less.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. It's been called a hive mind
in some of the initial public manifestos by Anonymous.

Like swarms of honeybees who work to generate sweet sustenance to feed the collective,
they can also sting much larger creatures to death if enough flesh is exposed.
What chance do naked Emporers have against such a force?

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. A hive with no queen and no need for a queen.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Good point -
unless you take the Queen as symbolic for the feminine principle,
which is rising from the ruins left behind by five thousand years of patriarchal dominance.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. I don't think Riane Eisler countenanced queens.
(Chalice & Blade)
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #59
80. That's exactly how I do take it--Sophia is the name I give to the Queen,
but you can call her what you want. The Goddess has many names. I mean that feminine principle, which five thousand years of patriarchy could bury but not kill.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #80
84. OK, I'm on that page.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Link to my daughter's latest blog post...
http://wildandserene.blogspot.com/2011/11/violence-guns...

As you'll see, Occupy Oakland is at a very difficult place right now. But I have faith that they'll get through it and emerge even stronger than before. I hope you'll understand the train of associations from my last post to this one, without me having to explain it step by step. I'm not sure I could even do that--I just wanted to post that link here so you could read her post.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. Yes, I get it.
By coincidence, there was a program on WI Public Radio this morning on nonviolent resistance movements. The essential point was that nonviolent methods are always preferable, even in the face of the most repressive regimes.

Here is their description of the program:

Veronica Rueckert's guests, after nine, describe how nonviolent resistance movements achieve their goals far more often than violent insurgencies.

Guests:
- Erica Chenoweth, Assistant Professor of Government (on leave), Wesleyan University. Visiting assistant professor, Stanford University. Visiting scholar, University of California, Berkeley.
- Maria J. Stephan, strategic planner, U.S. Department of State. Formerly director of policy and research, International Center on Nonviolent Conflict (ICNC). Adjunct professor, Georgetown University and American University.
*Co-authors, "Why Civil Resistance Works: The Strategic Logic of Nonviolent Conflict"
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #89
95. Sorry, the link doesn't work.
But connecting back to your earlier post about the feminine principle rising, we can see it its outlines in the code of conduct that guides the Occupy movement, and I believe that it has now become an unstoppable force.

In the Arthurian legend, this principle is called the Lady of the Lake...

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. Deleted
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 05:27 PM by Raksha
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. Sorry about that. Try this link:
Violence, Gunshots and Candlelight

I understand what you mean about the Lady of the Lake, and I totally agree with you!
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #100
101. A very moving, authentic and wise account of the ongoing Occupy Oakland saga.
You must be so proud of your daughter. It is well worth the read.

Earlier this week, the mayor hosted a press conference that focused on why the encampment was bad for business downtown.

In both issues, she seems to be missing the point that so many Occupy Oakland folks understand at a deep level: the violence, the poverty, and the hardships that the Occupy encampment brings out of the shadows and into the middle of downtown Oakland, where they cannot be ignored, are part of the reason that we Occupy. We arent creating the violence or the pain were just not willing to hide it in social or psychological ghettos anymore.


Many of these 20-something occupiers are remarkably grounded and mature for their age. No wonder, they are standing on the shoulders of a whole bunch of psychonauts and freakazoid pioneers.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #101
106. My daughter is 33, but she's been mistaken for a 20-something before.
That's a funny story in itself, but it would be too much of a digression to go into the details now. Of course I'm extremely proud of her, and as you guessed she was raised by a couple of unrepentent hippies. I always say it takes more than one generation to build a counterculture.

I'm glad you quoted that part of her post because it raises a very important point: the poverty and crime in Oakland and many other cities are ongoing, chronic problems that have persisted for decades. In NO WAY were they "caused" by Occupy Oakland or any other Occupation. The corporate media have been fabricating a linkage in an attempt to discredit the movement.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #51
87. Until OWS came along I was in fear of the collective conscience
that was coming out of the Tbagger movement. It was not leading to empathy. It was headed backwards into a world of hate that we have seen before. OWS has turned that around completely and I do not think OWS can be stopped because it is not even limited to the protesters anymore - it includes thinking people everywhere. We will win.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #87
102. ...
:hi:
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #87
104. "it includes thinking people everywhere. We will win."
:hug:
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. The OWS is like a whack a mole to the Oligarchy
They can't fight this no matter how violent they get. Even if they're successful with one Occupy group there are thousands more popping up everywhere.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
38. K & R
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. Will resistance be futile?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Of course.
All their bank are belong to us.
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
42. !!
"The Occupy Movement is like the perfect science-fiction monster. It's far smarter than its Establishment opposition. Every time it is attacked, it morphs to answer the attack. The cameras are everywhere, everyone is plugged in, the whole thing is like a super-organism."
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
50. 'There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood,
leads on to fortune'. Shakespeare who had something to say about everything.

I believe individually millions of people had reached a point where they could no longer be controlled by propaganda, but individually they were easily smacked down, and they were even on Democratic forums.

But things appear to have reached a critical point where all those individuals have finally connected and are creating a powerful force definitely aided by today's technology, just as other historical events were aided by the technology of their times. I hope this is the tide Shakespeare spoke of and that it continues to grow until it is an irresistible force for the better and the world becomes a better place because of it.

As Anonymous says 'we are legion' and even if they stop some of us in one place, unlike the past when they broke up a protest that would be the end of it, now all that will happen is more people will join, as happened when they wounded Scott Olsen. They are using the old ways, oppression and brute force, and demanding leaders and 'lists' because that is what they are accustomed to. As David Crosby said last week, 'it's a magical thing, the fact that there is no leader, no one to attack and dismiss'.

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flying rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. " I've seen things you people wouldn't believe"
Things are changing, evolution of the species.
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Doc Holliday Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #58
88. Thanks, Rabbit!
Love the Blade Runner reference. A good example (like The Godfather) of a shitty novel which made for a great movie. :yourock:

I also think that the Borg are a good analogy for OWS-- if you remove the whole "soulless biomechanical drones controlled by a queen" aspect.

And resistance is never futile. Frustrating, soul-sucking, and nerve-wracking (not to mention pyhsically risky) sometimes, for sure....but never futile.



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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
60. And the lack of leadership at OWS is reflective of the internet. And the GOP knows authoritarian
tactics but not OWS organic ones.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. I see freepers on Facebook very frustrated with this. They are addicted
to authoritarian oppression. When they see an organization without, they don't know where to attack. It is like they are disappointed OWS hasn't put up a few leaders for them to falsely smear yet.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. Yes, yes, exactly.
The authoritarians have never had to evolve tactics for fighting a Blob.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #68
90. What you just said explains why they attack the women. They are
trying to force the male "leader" to step forward as the protector. Interesting.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
61. Hoping that all this will kick in in time to keep the planet from being cooked
The OP is one of the most hopeful posts I've read in a long time.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
62. The Oligarchs will call in the wet-works eventually.
terrorist attack, more violent agents provacateurs, war with Iran, etc.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #62
69. I have no doubt.
But they will not win. People will see through it and simply withhold their consent.

Margaret Mead always used to talk about the power of a small, committed group to change the world. What we have here is a LARGE, committed group with powers of interconnection & communication that have not been seen before.

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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. I agree. I just dread how ugly it might yet get.
hopefully I'm wrong and the flood of people will become so great that TPTB will overwhelmed before they have time to foment their false-flag bullshit.

I'm trying to imagine the run-up to the Iraq war, but occurring *now* in the OWS era as opposed to 2003.
Would it have been prevented? Hell, there were massive marches *then*, but there was not the "shut it all the fuck DOWN" mentality.

If we can get a true widespread general strike rolling, then I'll be a bit more hopeful.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #72
83. Those demonstrations also didn't get much coverage.
Harder for the media to ignore stuff like this when everyone with a video camera is now a reporter.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #62
79. I worry about the possibility of biological Warfare being used
against OWS. We are in large groups, it would necessitate dispersing our quarantining the demonstrators (FEMA camps?) and can be blamed on the "unsanitary, communicable environment that they occupy."

I am sure this has already been discussed by TPTB, I hope that it was summarily dismissed. "They" have so many strains and weapons that can be manipulated to their desired effect, that it really does worry me.

We know that "collateral damage" is totally acceptable to these sociopaths and probably is enjoyable to some. The indiscriminate killing of people across the globe increases daily. "we" have already sanctioned the murder of American citizens, without a trial.

This type of operation would be easily justified in the minds of TPTB. Many people believe that something similar happened on 9-11.
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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
67. Maybe
and maybe they are amuzed by the 99% sloshing around. When you live in a guarded community, with all of your dreams coming true because the laws are there to protect your wealth, you may not have a care in the world.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. And maybe all that smug confidence in the entitlement, security and privilege
is disastrously misplaced.

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
73. I'm going to throw in a bit of what I THINK is realism, here.
I don't see that anybody is afraid of OWS. Their complete lack of organization is not a positive. It's a negative.

The police have in some instances over-reacted and in some cases have behaved with downright criminal intentions. But that's an inadequately trained police force. Not some amorphous collective of 'The Powers That Be'.

Without a central theme or sense of action, I think most people are starting to simply be annoyed by OWS. What happened to the orignal name? Occupy Wall Street? They're occupying a lot of public parks and sidewalks. Is this really going to change the behavior of corporations or legislators?

Notice I said THINK in capital letters above. This is not a missive intended to insult anyone. Feel free to point out where I'm wrong. I'm trying to understand what's going on here, too.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
91. I have problems seeing the NYCPD and Oakland PD as inadequately
trained. My small town police force yes, but not the larger cities. They spend big bucks on training them. They are deliberately using tactics that were more or less outlawed after the 80s and they are backfiring on them.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
94. Have you gone to a general assembly?
Or at least watched a livestream of one?

There is plenty of organization. It's just that there's no designated leader, which doesn't make sense to authoritarians. But really - you think OccupyOakland could have gotten somewhere between 30,000 to 100,000 people to march and shut down the port without organization?

The police vary by city. Here in my town, there's a cordial relationship between the occupiers and the police and they've never been raided and there's only been two arrests. I've seen pics from other places of cops helping to put up the tents. But in some places, I would surmise that the decisions are being made by authoritarians who see occupations as challenges to their authority, and that's where you get the violence. And it's being related to the "powers that be" because the people who rule our country are very definitely authoritarians who will use violence to put down challenges to their authority. The places where the police are violent are more indicative of the beliefs and positions and behavior of the rulers of the country than the places where the police are cool, and as the movement grows it's likely that the rulers will react on a national level. I'm sure the Department of Homeland Security is just itching to go after some "domestic terrorists".

There is a central theme, and if you think there's not then you either watch too much TV or are on the side of the 1%. The central theme is that the 1% who hold most of the wealth and power in the country are screwing over the other 99%.

It has grown beyond Wall Street, and not everyone can afford to travel to New York City. Also, most everyone is getting screwed in their local area by the 1% too. So the occupiers have been inspired by the original camp in Zucotti Park, but each one has a local flavor and addresses local problems. Like in Oakland - the day after the city spent millions of dollars to beat up and tear gas the protesters and put Scott Olsen in the hospital, the council voted to close five schools. I was watching their general assembly on livefeed one night and they discussed occupying the closed schools.

In New York, they occupied an apartment building until the landlord improved the utilities. In Atlanta, they're occupying a police officer's home to protect the family from foreclosure. And occupying foreclosed properties is definitely an idea that's going to spread.

Our whole system is broken, from top to bottom. Occupy is not just about changing the behavior of corporations or legislators. It's about trying to heal our souls, trying to change our culture, and trying to change the world. Even just the fact that the camps are feeding homeless people and treating them like human beings and including them in their activities is revolutionary.

Also, the general idea I've picked up on Twitter - it's not about asking the rulers for some crumbs. It's about creating a new society and making those rulers irrelevant. It's about changing human socioeconomic structure to include and benefit everyone, not just the 1% with the most money.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. Fierce voice!
I heart it. I utterly, utterly love hearing this roar.
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randome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. 'Creating a new society'?
By camping out in tents? I'm sorry, I just don't see that this is going to change things much. I'm trying NOT to be a pessimist but what has changed so far?

Sure, some of the legislators are paying SOME attention but they don't seem ready to make the kind of wholesale changes we need.

I wish there would be one unifying message from OWS (the name, by the way, was created as a protest against the financial system), and that message is this: re-regulate the financial system.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #94
107. You are so right!
Re "Our whole system is broken, from top to bottom. Occupy is not just about changing the behavior of corporations or legislators. It's about trying to heal our souls, trying to change our culture, and trying to change the world. Even just the fact that the camps are feeding homeless people and treating them like human beings and including them in their activities is revolutionary.

Also, the general idea I've picked up on Twitter - it's not about asking the rulers for some crumbs. It's about creating a new society and making those rulers irrelevant. It's about changing human socioeconomic structure to include and benefit everyone, not just the 1% with the most money."


Exactly - great post!
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
74. Long live OWS.
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nineteen50 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
76. We are seeing a change
 from one way of thinking to another. It's a revolution, a
transformation. It does not just happen it is driven by agents
of change. OWS is that agent of change and that is what scares
the status quo.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
77. Most Excellent Post !!! - K & R !!!
:yourock:

:bounce:

:hi:
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NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
78. i like how the 1% Media is being exposed for what it is.
how can there be any confusion about who owns the 1% Media when we can see from whose frame it tries to observe this event.
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Ysabel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
81. 105th rec if i could...
:)
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
98. I agree, kicked but too late to formally recommend.
Thanks for the thread, Jackpine Radical :thumbsup:
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
105. k&r
:kick:
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