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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:13 PM
Original message
"Get a job."
Edited on Sun Nov-06-11 07:14 PM by PETRUS
As many others here have pointed out, the ratio of unemployed persons to available positions is around 4 or 5 to 1.

But joblessness is not the only issue.

If all unemployed Americans were hired tomorrow it wouldn't address the root problem. The US is run by an oligarchy, and the policies they promote do damage beyond domestic economic injustice. Business practices of neoliberal globalists follow the logic of a "race to the bottom" that puts pressure on labor everywhere and leads us towards environmental catastrophe. The US backs up business with a violent, coercive foreign policy that is ruining lives well outside of its borders.

Yes, a job would be great. But we also need a government of, by, and for the people.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Consumer pricing has far outpaced wages in the last three or four years.
Under employed is how the oligarch want the proles.
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Greenspan was quoted
...saying more or less than an insecure workforce was good for business.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Making the proles beg for scraps.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. Greenspan is a lifelong libertarian Republican.
And he's been pulling some very important strings ever since Saint Ronnie was ordained, promoting policies that libertarian Republicans like. You would think that after all this, such a person would be afraid to show his face in the light of day.
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Dont call me Shirley Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. Also businesses should "hate the customer". Nice guy, Greedspan, NOT!
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Juche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Three or four decades
It started in the mid 70s when productivity and GDP growth were decoupled from wages.

I agree with you, it keeps us subservient. It is like the movie sicko. People who are afraid, in debt, desperate and hanging by a thread usually don't make waves or cause trouble since they have too much to lose.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Of course, All said in a short message.
I am going to be largely silent on much more political messaging than I have in the past because I believe in the above statement.

This is it. In a nutshell. Believe it.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. And it would be nice to have a job that pays more than minimum wage -
and even that is on tenuous footing these days.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. CORRECT
now off to the Greatest Page with ye
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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is so true.
And so succinctly put. K & R.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh yes.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well and these idiots have propogandized college degrees for so long...
...they have made everyone think that if you get a degree you could be a CEO. There are too many chiefs in this country, which translates into too many people looking to be the boss.
I notice people on the corners here in OKC. One guy begs on the corner where a church is located. Why aren't they helping him? But I digress.
I notice help wanted signs at every restaurant. Get over your ego and go wait tables, hostess, whatever. Sure, it is hard work, but if you are a good server, you can make $15 an hour. I see Starbucks and Target are hiring.
I know people are hurting, but instead of waiting for those jobs that aren't coming, go find one that is there. There is a lot of ego attached to some of the unemployment.

There is legitimate unemployment and I am not trying to be insensitive. I am just saying that if I were to lose my job tomorrow, I would go wait tables until I could find something else. I have friends who have been out of work for more than a year, sending out resumes, getting that "you've been unemployed for more than a year" crap. Dude, you will get hired at a restaurant. Go to Target. Go to Starbucks. It'll get you back into the employed section again and you'll get rid of that stigma. And you might find a good job in the process that you can work into something bigger later on.

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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I would suggest
rereading the first sentence of the OP.
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Your reply is very off-topic.
My post wasn't really about unemployment, it was about misguided criticism of the (mostly employed) protestors of the Occupy/99% movement.

Maybe you were just taking the opportunity to offer friendly advice for destitute DU-ers who hadn't considered an entry level job in restaurant or a big box retailer. If that's the case, your suggestion - while well intentioned - has serious problems. If you or anyone else would like to discuss that, please feel free to start another thread and point me to it. I'd be happy to explain the errors in your reasoning.
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YellowRubberDuckie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. No. Your comment struck something in my brain.
Didn't mean offense and didn't think it was off-topic, but my brain doesn't work like normal people's.
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Cool.
And three cheers for different brains!
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renegade000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. what kills me is that say that after yelling things like
"Obama's socialist policies are killing jobs!"

:crazy:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. k&r
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. you said it.
:(
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. Hey, unemployed: get a job!
Hey, "job creators": create a job!
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drokhole Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Well put! To add a few great, similar insights...
Edited on Mon Nov-07-11 12:05 PM by drokhole
...from Jiddu Krishnamurti:

"All outward forms of change brought about by wars, revolutions, reformations, laws and ideologies have failed completely to change the basic nature of man and therefore of society. As human beings living in this monstrously ugly world, let us ask ourselves, can this society, based on competition, brutality and fear, come to an end? Not as an intellectual conception, not as a hope, but as an actual fact, so that the mind is made fresh, new and innocent and can bring about a different world altogether? It can only happen, I think, if each one of us recognises the central fact that we, as individuals, as human beings, in whatever part of the world we happen to live or whatever culture we happen to belong to, are totally responsible for the whole state of the world.

We are each one of us responsible for every war because of the aggressiveness of our own lives, because of our nationalism, our selfishness, our gods, our prejudices, our ideals, all of which divide us. And only when we realize, not intellectually but actually, as actually as we would recognise that we are hungry or in pain, that you and I are responsible for all this existing chaos, for all the misery throughout the entire world because we have contributed to it in our daily lives and are part of this monstrous society with its wars, divisions, its ugliness, brutality and greed - only then will we act.
...
Can you and I, then, bring about in ourselves without any outside influence, without any persuasion, without any fear of punishment - can we bring about in the very essence of our being a total revolution, a psychological mutation, so that we are no longer brutal, violent, competitive, anxious, fearful, greedy, envious and all the rest of the manifestations of our nature which have built up the rotten society in which we live our daily lives?
...
Can you then, seeing this whole picture, seeing it not verbally but actually, can you easily, spontaneously, transform yourself? That is the real issue. Is it possible to bring about a complete revolution in the psyche?"

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=48&chid=56784


Questioner: How can we be free of dependence as long as we are living in society?

Krishnamurti: Do you know what society is? Society is the relationship between man and man, is it not? Don't complicate it, don't quote a lot of books; think very simply about it and you will see that society is the relationship between you and me and others. Human relationship makes society; and our present society is built upon a relationship of acquisitiveness, is it not? Most of us want money, power, property, authority; at one level or another we want position, prestige, and so we have built an acquisitive society. As long as we are acquisitive, as long as we want position, prestige, power and all the rest of it, we belong to this society and are therefore dependent on it. But if one does not want any of these things and remains simply what one is with great humility, then one is out of it; one revolts against it and breaks with this society.

Unfortunately, education at present is aimed at making you conform, fit into and adjust yourself to this acquisitive society. That is all your parents, your teachers and your books are concerned with. As long as you conform, as long as you are ambitious, acquisitive, corrupting and destroying others in the pursuit of position and power, you are considered a respectable citizen. You are educated to fit into society; but that is not education, it is merely a process which conditions you to conform to a pattern. The real function of education is not to turn you out to be a clerk, or a judge, or a prime minister, but to help you understand the whole structure of this rotten society and allow you to grow in freedom, so that you will break away and create a different society, a new world. There must be those who are in revolt, not partially but totally in revolt against the old, for it is only such people who can create a new world--a world not based on acquisitiveness, on power and prestige.

I can hear the older people saying, "It can never be done. Human nature is what it is, and you are talking nonsense". But we have never thought about unconditioning the adult mind, and not conditioning the child. Surely education is both curative and preventive. You older students are already shaped, already conditioned, already ambitious; you want to be successful like your father, like the governor, or somebody else. So the real function of education is not only to help you uncondition yourself, but also to understand this whole process of living from day to day so that you can grow in freedom and create a new world--a world that must be totally different from the present one. Unfortunately, neither your parents, nor your teachers, nor the public in general are interested in this. That is why education must be a process of educating the educator as well as the student.


Questioner: You say that we should revolt against society, and at same time you say that we should not have ambition. Is not the desire to improve society an ambition?

Krishnamurti: I have very carefully explained what I mean by revolt, but I shall use two different words to make it much clearer. To revolt within society in order to make it a little better, to bring about certain reforms, is like the revolt of prisoners to improve their life within the prison walls; and such revolt is no revolt at all, it is just mutiny. Do you see the difference? Revolt within society is like the mutiny of prisoners who want better food, better treatment within the prison; but revolt born of understanding is an individual breaking away from society, and that is creative revolution.

Now, if you as an individual break away from society, is that action motivated by ambition? If it is, then you have not broken away at all, you are still within the prison, because the very basis of society is ambition, acquisitiveness, greed. But if you understand all that and bring about a revolution in your own heart and mind, then you are no longer ambitious, you are no longer motivated by envy, greed, acquisitiveness, and therefore you will be entirely outside of a society which is based on those things. Then you are a creative individual and in your action there will be the seed of a different culture.

So there is a vast difference between the action of creative revolution, and the action of revolt or mutiny within society. As long as you are concerned with mere reform, with decorating the bars and walls of the prison, you are not creative. Reformation always needs further reform, it only brings more misery, more destruction. Whereas, the mind that understands this whole structure of acquisitiveness, of greed, of ambition and breaks away from it--such a mind is in constant revolution. It is an expansive, a creative mind; therefore, like a stone thrown into a pool of still water, its action produces waves, and those waves will form a different civilization altogether."


"I'm afraid we all crave to be respected -- which is to be recognized as good citizens in a rotten society. Respectability is very profitable and ensures you a good job and a steady income. The accepted morality of greed, envy and hate is the way of the establishment.

When you totally deny all this, not with your lips but with your heart, then you are really moral. For this morality springs out of love and not out of any motive or profit, of achievement, of place in the hierarchy. There cannot be this love if you belong to a society in which you want to find fame, recognition, a position. Since there is no love in this, its morality is immorality. When you deny all this from the very bottom of your heart, then there is a virtue that is encompassed by love."

http://ratical.org/many_worlds/K/quotations.html


Or, simply:

"The fact is it's a rotten society."


(Also, here's a link to an essay by William Morris that I think correlates well with your OP: Useful Work vs. Useless Toil)
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PETRUS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Nice contributions, thank you. nt
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BadgerKid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Guess they mean "get a job...overseas"
Edited on Mon Nov-07-11 01:32 PM by BadgerKid
since that's where many jobs went, not to mention a system that permitted it.
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kick
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's inevitable
The forces arrayed against the Occupy movement would love, love, love to boil it down to just one thing, like jobs. But if all of our society's problems stemmed from just one source, it wouldn't take all this time and effort just to enumerate all the problems. It isn't "just" jobs, or "just" the oligarchy, or "just" anything. It's a systemic problem that rewards a few for the impoverishment of many. The problem is lots of things. Start tackling it anywhere you want, O Wise Men of Washington and Wall Street, but tackle it. Your time to do so may be running out.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
22. The jobs that they want us to get
are slavery. They want us to work for free. They want to enslave the entire world.

Their vision of the future is Auschwitz, forever.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. "But we also need a government of, by, and for the people."
Therein lies the rub.

Whenever I hear a Bagger or a Freeper declaring their hatred for "government," I want to know which government? Government owned by corporations, or government "of, by, and for" the people?

If they say the latter, then they are saying they do not trust their fellow Americans. They do not see "of, by, and for" the people as the best form of government. Their hatred blinds them, for whenever you have three or more people acting in the best interests of all three, you have to have a government. You have to have consensus.

For some reason I don't believe Baggers and Freepers see present government as "corporate owned." They haven't articulated this concern. It's all about hating "the government."

When Jesse Ventura recently said at on OWS event, "I love my country but fear my government," I wanted him to express what government he's talking about? The democratic "of, by, and for" the people-type of government we're suppose to have, or the fascist corporate-owned government we really have...
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-11 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick.
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