Unmask the Black Bloc!

[brentspeak]

OWS doesn't want these people anywhere their peaceful protests.

If a Black Bloc-er vandalizes property or assaults someone, just rip their mask off and get the videocam to capture their face. Agents-provacateurs? Losers who just want to destroy things? The camera will find out.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leveymg]

2. Also important, video the cops doing nothing to stop the property damage - that's most telling

The Black Bloc are, wittingly or not, working with the cops, the Right-wing, and the 1% to discredit OWS.

Don't let them get away with this false-flag bullshit.

[formercia]

28. Call the Police and time them to see if they even show up.

It would be good to track these miscreants to see if they are even charged or given a donut and a couple days' vacation.

Document. Document. This crap won't stop until they run out of people to send.

[tkmorris]

3. I wish it were that easy...

See, the Black Bloc wants a fight. Further, they travel in groups, and usually carry some form of bludgeoning weapon. Any attempts to unmask them would result in a medium to large scale street fight, which is precisely what the OWS group does not want.

This is one of the things which keeps me from getting to close to the OWS movement. I WANT to be part of it, but I would have a very hard time suppressing the urge to engage people like the BB. When I see people being mistreated it is very hard for me to sit still and sing a song, or chant 'shame". I tend to be a bit more pro-active than that.

[brentspeak]

5. An alternative could be signs/banners proclaiming "Black Bloc unwelcome here"

Or words to that effect. At the least, it's a non-confrontational way to make it clear to the general public that the OWS isn't friends with the Black Bloc.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. It is interesting to see those advocating violence in the name of OWS

even if it is against the Black Block

[tkmorris]

7. I hope you are referring to the OP

I am not advocating violence at all. I do recognize that violence is playing into the BB's hands. I just recognize that if I were to witness their shenanigans directly I would have real difficulty sitting on my hands and watching it, so I find it best to maintain my distance out of respect for the OWS movements wishes.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. There is another thread pointing out that the black bloc has at times protected demonstrators

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2242670&mesg_id=2242670

They clearly are a mixed blessing historically. Those who post about how the civil rights movement, the SCLC, NAACP, and MLK were dedicated to non-violence are ignorant of the real history and events. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacons_for_Defense_and_Justice

If OWS is going to survive as it is, it will have to come to terms with the Black Blocs and many others who while 99%s too, are not part of the core demographic of the encampments. IMO, that is the biggest challenge, not the Oakland or NY police departments.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[a simple pattern]

23. You seem pretty sure they're not the police.

I'd be interested to know why.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

29. Actually I am not sure one way or the other these days

I knew black bloc members in other times...and they certainly were not the police. I don't know any today and the anarchists I have seen at the encampments were not black bloc types. I am surprised we have not seen more black bloc activity sooner.

The thread I brought up is not mine and there is some sharp controversy there.

I do find the "anybody who says something I don't like is a provocateur" thinking amusing in its hubris if nothing else. Clearly OWS needs to find a way to include outliers, including anarchists, open carry advocates, free silver proponents, single taxers etc if it is really going to represent the 99%. IMO the inclusion process will be the biggest challenge to OWS, not the NY or Oakland police departments.

[Blue_Tires]

33. Why is it the responsibility of OWS to 'come to terms' with the black bloc et. al.?

It's the responsibility of the black bloc to stop breaking windows, setting fires and other jackass stunts, which is kneecapping a peaceful populist movement they claim to support (I'm making the leap of faith that most of the BB have good intentions in their hearts and aren't cops or whatever)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. OWS is either an inclusive movement or it is not

and that inclusion process IMO will be more of a challenge than police crackdowns.

I used some pretty extreme/silly examples, including black blocs, free silver, and open carry advocates, but their voices are no less valid at the GAs than any other. Inclusive movements need to be inclusive. OWS could go the other route and get restrictive but that would be a major upheaval and rejection of some of its original tenets.

[Blue_Tires]

44. I don't think inclusion is that much of a challenge as long as

1. People behave themselves
2. OWS is mindful that certain people will take advantage of their openness to smash/burn/steal/fight/sabotage...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. Hmmmm, partially

If people behave themselves, it can be fairly easy to work productively together. Sometimes that can be a real challenge. I have already seen some really doozies at GAs. Keeping focus sometimes is more than difficult.

OWS can not be mindful of anything since it is not a cohesive organization. People at the encampments can be and should be. This is not a trivial point. Without substantive coordination and structure, the largest functional entity in OWS is an encampment and even there the GA is limited in its tools and powers. Some challenges are common across the encampments, others unique to the location. Solutions are also location unique, sometimes to common issues. Given the non structure, no one should be surprised at any of that, its its not necessarily a bad thing. However to talk about OWS as a singular entity is specious.

[jeff47]

47. Being inclusive doesn't mean they have to include everyone that comes along.

If the KKK decided to ally themselves with OWS, that doesn't mean OWS would have to accept them.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

51. If any person or group shows up at an encampment, who is going to turn them away?

We already have had open carry bubbas, Ron Paul supporters one black block style group and others show up at various encampments. Its not like there are OWS membership cards or secret handshakes. The encampments are mostly on public property. Anyone can go there and demonstrate even the KKK.

Just how big a tent OWS is going to be I think is still an open question (its the 99%er thing). The Paulies could effecitively take over an encampment. Does that mean its not OWS anymore? Who gets to make that call? Welcome to an open and non structured movement.

Would you know what to say if some Silverists wanted to join up? Not sure I would.

[jeff47]

54. Presence at the same location is not endorsement or acceptance of that group. (nt)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. I agree

But what if generic someone joins the like to speak at the GA? It is supposed to be an all comers forum. How far out to lunch to they have to be before they are run out of an encampment? Does anybody have the real authority to run them out of an encampment. Not endorsing violent racists, but how to manage the outliers is not exactly obvious in all cases.

[jeff47]

63. They don't have to throw them out. They can ignore them.

You are making this out to be a much, much harder problem to solve than it is.

[saras]

77. It's not. No successful ANYTHING "includes" saboteurs and traitors - it just doesn't work.

The 99% includes everyone who SUPPORTS their current TACTICS

even if you'd like different tactics, and/or don't share all their ultimate GOALS.

If you're not willing to work with a group of people working together, and willfully work against them, then YOU have excluded YOURSELF and there's nothing THEY can do about it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

82. There is a lot room for outliers outside of those

People who are part of the 99%. Any they will not all agree on some things, including tactics. However their voices are equally valid, they can participate in the GAs.

Given the lack of central control, the largest functional entity in OWS is an encampment. They have some common issues, some are local and unique. Some encampments have solved common problems in different manners.

Consider this...what if the Ron Paul supporters ended up in charge at a particular encampment. Who would declare them "not OWS". Who would have the authority to do so? One of the charms of a non-structured movement is that keeping tightly on message with distributed independent parts is not realistically possible.

To me the hardest challenge for OWS in the near term is managing the diversity as it grows, not the cops.

[brentspeak]

43. Considering that you are campaigning here on behalf of the Black Bloc's presence at OWS

It is therefore safe to say that it is you who is "advocating violence in the name of OWS."

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. Acutally I am not...I am pointing out that OWS has to find a way to be inclusive of outliers

And I listed a number of diverse groups like the Silverists (if they even exist anymore) who have just as much right to be at OWS as others. Managing the diversity productively is IMO going to be more of a challenge than any cop shop to OWS, since to reject it means a loss of its soul. Go to a GA this weekend and see what that means.

I am somewhat surprised we have not seen more black blocs in the encampments, but its not like I know any members these days. I think if there was more police crackdowns there would be more black block actions. They seem to go hand in hand. Anarchists have been playing a role in OWS since its inception, but non violently to date.

So I suggest you quit suggesting people wearing masks be assaulted. Its bad for OWS at any level. Let the local encampments figure out how to handle those bent of violence. They have done a pretty good job so far.

[SpiralHawk]

4. The Black Bloc (R) doing the occult bidding of the PuppetMasters (R)

Damn...

[MineralMan]

8. You go first, OK? Pull the mask off the next black bloc person

you see. Let us know how that works out for you. You are Occupying somewhere, right?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. But you have advocated violence by OWS which is trying hard to be a non violent movement

[pintobean]

14. Pulling down a bandana is not violent.

It may provoke violence, but the act itself isn't violent.

[MineralMan]

15. Actually, it could easily be classed as a battery.

Imagine pulling the head scarf off a Muslim woman. That would be a direct attack. I suspect that those black bloc folks who are wearing the masks or whatever would take considerable umbrage at having them snatched off their heads. It's distinctly an assault and perhaps battery. I wouldn't advise it, really.

[pintobean]

16. Did I advise something, or did I take issue with the characterization?

[MineralMan]

18. I'm not arguing with you. I'm making a statement.

The two things are not synonymous.

[pintobean]

19. Right.

[MineralMan]

20. Thanks.

[a simple pattern]

25. Hm yes better stay away from the scary kids in masks.

If that is all they are, I'm sure law enforcement would be happy to have them rounded up.

[MineralMan]

27. You're welcome to do as you please. However, you do so at

your own risk. I don't advise unmasking strangers. They may object to that in a way you do not expect.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. In another time many wore MC helmets with face shields

And would kick your ass as soon as looking at you. Haven't seen black blocs in person at OWS, but have seen a few anarchists.

I wore a modular motorcycle helmet (flip front) into an encampment a while back, got a few odd look, but that was about it.

[pintobean]

69. Here's a vid of Bob Nelson advocating the violent assault and battery

of old ladies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhmdrrAriGI

and here's Michael Moore violently assaulting a reporter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdoo5mYw5Xo

[MineralMan]

74. OK...

I'm afraid I don't take your point, though, but you're welcome to post as many videos as you like, I suppose.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Battery usually is considered violent

[Leopolds Ghost]

53. Getting in someones face can be prosecuted as simple assault. n/t

[MineralMan]

12. Deleted

The message I replied to is no longer there.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

64. I've attended a solidarity Occupy rally and donated $$ to OWS food/items fund

And your contribution/involvement has been...?

[MineralMan]

75. I've been with the Occupy Minnesota demonstration half a dozen

times recently. Does that count? Are we comparing activism here? Are we puffing out our chests? Not my thing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

78. No problem

I'm fast...real fast.

[flamingdem]

13. Where is anonymous when you need them

.. giving cover to their somewhat rogue members?

[a simple pattern]

26. Where are the police when you need them?

Which is more likely, considering that the cops have been pulling this shit long before Anonymous existed?

[Leopolds Ghost]

57. As I understand it, Anon believes that masking up is a stupid tactic for this protest

Since the objective is to grow into a movement of the 99%

And unless you're dealing with a small group of protesters,
anonymity off-line relies precisely on being a contributing
member of a larger group, not taking it over and putting on
a mask to advertise their "anonymity"

[Demonaut]

22. I agree, unmask these douchebags

they accomplish nothing but threaten everything

[Douglas Carpenter]

31. at least find some way to expose who they are!!

Publish their photos, names, addresses and phone numbers across the Internet. Distribute fliers in their neighborhoods and their place of employment with their pictures, names addresses and phone number on them to warn to their neighbors and coworkers that they have a violent and dangerous psychopath in their midst.

These are the tactics that must be done against police who brutalize peaceful demonstrators as well as these distruptors who threaten to undermine the entire movement and thus undermine the first uprising in a generation perhaps our only last best hope to restore democracy and save our country and our world.

These people are not just enemies of the OWS movement - they are enemies of the human race

[formercia]

32. If the Black Bloc wants to protest, let them wear civvies and behave peacefully.

Showing up in uniform is not helping, even if they are peaceful. The M$M will just focus on the BB and try to make it look like all of OWS is like that.

I remember watching an incident in Philly back in the 60's. I was riding a city bus on the way to work. We were stopped in traffic and I just happened to see a small group of 3 Black Men standing on the sidewalk. They were approached by police who told them to disperse.
An argument ensued and soon there was a crowd of people watching the show. Next thing the News Cameras showed up but soon everyone went their own way. I just happened to see the same incident on the evening news and they made it look like a full blown riot. It's amazing how a skilled camera operator can frame the situation and completely distort the message.
It was just luck that we were caught in a traffic jam and I was able to watch from just a few feet away.

[Leopolds Ghost]

35. Wow, it's amazing how quickly OWS can be turned into anti-freedom of assembly/dress/etc.

Actions are what's important, not words or ideas you don't like.

[apocalypsehow]

36. Going around masked at a public assembly is not a "word" or "idea," it's simply trying to hide ones

identity for motives that are almost uniformly dubious - which is why the Ku Klux Klan loved wearing those shiny white hoods. And why most states passed laws outlawing the practice. But you go right ahead and defend it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

45. Just like Anons with their masks. Or any other group that wear masks.

You know that they actively endorsed October2011.org -- who accepted their endorsement?

Of course, in countries with real oppression, and not merely status quo republicanism
(aka longstanding absence of any real democracy), protesters might HAVE to wear masks.

It's also a good idea if you're about to get pepper-sprayed in the face, although
I suppose you could argue passive resistance to being tear-gassed sends a better
message and you might be right. Unfortunately most people only respect the strong,
as demonstrated by claims that we should physically confront anyone wearing a mask.

[apocalypsehow]

49. "Or any other group that wear masks" - LOL. n/t.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

37. .

http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=Q83vznuZwgU

undercover cops... anyone truly for this movement is non-violent
sleepyfish 13 hours ago in playlist More videos from PlanetEarthAwakens01

actually when the black blockers show up, mob them and rip off their hoods.
pogo265 15 hours ago

Serious protesters need to focus on building genuine political power that is based on some core issues. The black block are either a bunch of useless assholes with nothing better to do or police agents. Either way these protests are going to be dogged by them and will degenerate into fiascos that alienate large segments of the 99%.
pogo265 16 hours ago 3

The black block. Brought to you by Americans For Prosperity
zoomustard 22 hours ago 2

snip

the blocs are only here for chaos, confusion and disorder. don't let them!!!
AyeSkyeTech 1 day ago in playlist More videos from PlanetEarthAwakens01 2

there is one agenda for the black bloc and that is to Infiltrate and cause destruction to private properties to make US the protestors LOOK BAD.

Like, oh... seee....? This can be overcome if we separate the good from the bad and shy away from violence.
AyeSkyeTech 1 day ago in playlist More videos from PlanetEarthAwakens01

ahahaha instead of the vandalism the police wanted to show...instead you have protestors protecting private property.

ZhugeNaut 1 day ago 2

PULL OFF THE MASKS, EXPOSE THEM, INSIST PRESSING CHARGES,

AND IF YOU FEEL VIOLENT BEAT THEM THE LITTLE JERKS CAN JUST GO TO JAIL LITTLE SNIVELLING TATTLETALE PUPPET LOSERS

I WILL SO GET INTO IT WITH THESE LITTLE  SHTTS
octohorse 1 day ago
Comment removed
octohorse 1 day ago
To the people in "Occupy the Planet": Be very aware of the 'agents provocateur' (undercover cops) planted by the elite in peaceful protests, so they start some violence and the police can go against all the peaceful protesters labeling them as 'rioters'. They are easy to spot once you are awake, you can feel their low frequency vibration. (also usually dress all in black and always cover their faces). Identify, Expose and Expel them. Their plan is to impose Martial Law.
rolovolo 1 day ago

Most of the posts here are disgusting! Provocateurs says one, cops says the other, arrest them (maybe he or she is the cop afterall) says another one. Ok, you seem to care too much for the mass media opinions first of all. Ok some maybe I say maybe are cops, but you prefer to put them all in one bag. Disgusting!
Moonch1ld 1 day ago

Vandalism and destruction ftw!!
thedynamix 1 day ago

Paid trolls
JelleTheTunes 1 day ago

Does anyone think the US "citizens arrest" powers should be applied in these cases?
bluegreen1138 1 day ago 2

@bluegreen1138 they can and should, but you would have to restrain them until police arrive.
srbeiler 1 day ago

That man at the end needs help. He is the only one standing up to the masked minority that is giving the rest a bad name.

The way the pushed and shoved him around was disgraceful. God bless him for his bravery.
Q69573 1 day ago 2

You grab these guys walk there ass to jail and demand they be arested.

For there crime. Crime is crime.
JackFreeman4U 1 day ago

Staged.
boblaituri 1 day ago

The black block are blackmailed into causing damage BY the cops. They get caught with a joint or something and then are given a choice. Be black block or go to jail.
rcguycan 1 day ago 7

@rcguycan Yeah I read about that, apparently not many are cops, most are just bribed or blackmailed. 
PlanetEarthAwakens01 1 day ago 7

@rcguycan Wow, it's that easy...maybe there should be a kind of bailout pool.
Mynnia 1 day ago

@rcguycan They still have a choice. They chose to be infiltrators in a peaceful movement that is trying to save the lives and livelihood of the majority of americans
charleymarie1 5 hours ago

Just rip off their masks! That is still non-violent, and exposes them as the COPS they are.
RicosDomeTown 1 day ago 2

black bacon

black water

black block

i see a pattern here...
FreedomRebel 1 day ago

@FreedomRebel black bacon?
darrenritt27 1 day ago

@darrenritt27 cops ?
FreedomRebel 1 day ago

@FreedomRebel Wow....now i feel dumb lol
darrenritt27 1 day ago

@darrenritt27 lool ^^ don't m8 ! stress will give you sweinflu ^^
FreedomRebel 1 day ago

cops try this tactic all the time. Last time they got busted, they all had on their police issue boots. Check the boots!
sethzky77 1 day ago

It wouldn't surprise me one bit, but sadly we won't every truly know, just like 9-11:(
slhines7 1 day ago

Yep! Busted...again!
fireriver29 1 day ago

You know what FUCK non Violence BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF THE BLACK BLOCK!!!
MadMaxNow 1 day ago 4

@MadMaxNow lol, take them down and photograph their faces.
PlanetEarthAwakens01 1 day ago 12

@PlanetEarthAwakens01 That's what I am saying. Fuck them up in ANY WAY you can!!
MadMaxNow 1 day ago

@MadMaxNow that is their point!
Mynnia 1 day ago

These guys are definitely under orders.. Being paid? They are there specifically to create Chaos.. Order out of Chaos? Like on the back of the dollar bill? These guys have been given instructions in order to validate the heavay hand of the cops or to bring in Martial Law...!
17seventySIX 1 day ago 2

Prolly cops....
megamogx 1 day ago

You can always count on under-cover right- winger to screw up everything.


karenbcz22 1 day ago

@karenbcz22 Kinda like the under cover left wingers you could count on trying to screw with the tea party movement right?
srtowner 1 day ago

agree...these are plants
raw5069 1 day ago

good thing the OWS has this all under control.

who are those guys?
Bblackjackk 1 day ago

[MineralMan]

40. It's a whole lot of posers there in that stuff.

You betcha. "Let's you and him fight," writ large.

[Leopolds Ghost]

42. Youtube comments - always a place to look for reasoned arguments advocating violence

Well, it's better than some comment forums I suppose. :shrug:

Yes, let's engage in violent behavior to protect our image, that makes tons of sense. Hell, if we return to the days of muscling our political opponents and street battles ala 1850s-1950s, so will every other group that wants to protest.

But you missed the point of my previous post which is that:

Tons of CONCERN posts all of a sudden about a specific group in a specific city and
"Hey, guys, gee, you know, what if the cops find out we are mollycoddling CRIMINALZ here?" are CONCERN posts.

[Leopolds Ghost]

56. So it's suddenly okay to advocate physical confrontation against these guys,

But it's not okay to note that this is a series of repetitive concern threads attempting to demonize anyone who is a left-libertarian member of OWS with a broad brush as belonging to this "enemy group" -- half of whom are cops. The people we're demonizing them for being confrontational with.

[inna]

73. that is just disgusting. frankly, i'm amazed that even some enlightened DUers

just don't seem to get it, for some reason.

and it's really obvious; nothing subtle about it at all, whatsoever. :shrug:


Hello!! :hi: Provocateurs have been used by governments all over the world to discredit peaceful protests and, more generally, to subvert and disrupt resistance.

According to Wikipedia, FFS:

"An agent provocateur may be a police officer or a secret agent of police who encourages suspects to carry out a crime ....

A political organization or government may use agents provocateurs against political opponents. The provocateurs try to incite the opponent to do counter-productive or ineffective acts to foster public disdain—or provide a pretext for aggression against the opponent (see Red-baiting).

Historically, labor spies, hired to infiltrate, monitor, disrupt, or subvert union activities, have used agent provocateur tactics."



And clearly, it's working like a fucking charm. :nuke: Hey, let's go brutalize us some anarchist kids!!111!!! :sarcasm:


:puke:

no, seriously, it's just beyond sad and disgusting; makes one wonder about the (short-term) perspectives for any popular resistance movement.

[MineralMan]

38. Hey gang! Let's you and him fight! Whaddya say?

I say that whoever is proposing "ripping off the masks" do so at the earliest possible convenience, then let us know how it turned out. I'm all for people taking the action they recommend. I rarely see it happen, though.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Norrin Radd]

46. Cops dressed as Black Bloc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV6DyQKe4cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow

[Name removed]

52. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pintobean]

65. Strange bedfellows

[Leopolds Ghost]

86. Obvious f'g provocateur.

If I were a trained investigator I'd know that right off the bat. And for more than one reason.

[Leopolds Ghost]

85. Funny how it's not OK to point the hypocrisy of DUers advocating violence (unmasking) against people

they deem to be likely undercover cops.

[Better Believe It]

58. We're not cops or snitches. That's not our job. Just don't let them disrupt our protests.

[MineralMan]

60. But, perhaps they're the 99%, too.

Perhaps they have something to add. You don't agree with their tactics? So you want to exclude them from the 99%. Very odd, I think. Why not sit down with them and discuss the issues? Why not convince them that the peaceful way is better?

I'm confused here.

Well, not really, but you're not making a lot of sense.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

71. Snitching is good!

Promiting the idea that telling the police about criminals is a bad thing, and stigmatising people who do it, does immense amounts of harm.

If anyone has the courage to "snitch" on criminals to the police, good for them. As citizens, that *is* our responsibility.

[Better Believe It]

72. What kind of "crimes" did you have in mind?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

80. Dupe, self-delete.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

81. Violence and vandalism, in this case.

But the infamous "anti-snitching" campaigns used to intimidate people who report drug dealers were also in the back of my mind.

[Leopolds Ghost]

87. At what point does vandalism become a form of violence

That reflects badly on an entire movement?

I am just saying because certain forms of vandalism are an unavoidably common part of angry protests when you actually dealing with an angry populace, which currently we don't really have in this country, compared to most countries that do, such as Greece; France; Egypt; South Korea during the farm protests; USA in the 60s; etc. I don't think breaking windows should be one of them, but do you want to turn someone in for writing on a wall? Knocking over a newspaper box? Barricading a street and blocking traffic? What?

Not that I mean to condone such actions, but sitting in a park and feeling self-righteous never changed the world. Vandalism didn't either, but what does change the world is when the powers that be feel somehow threatened -- either by your actions having widespread popular support for your preferred policies or by the potential of a "bad cop" arising from your "good cop" actions (as in the case of MLK vs. the Black Power movement).

[Donald Ian Rankin]

94. Protest only works when the government responds with *excessive* force.

If your movement is engaging in even relatively mild illegal activity that inconveniences others - writing on walls is probably OK, but blocking traffic may well not be - then government use of even quite severe force probably won't be seen as excessive by enough people, and your protest won't achieve anything.

[Leopolds Ghost]

96. That is a reasonable response, I agree.

yay!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

59. Wired article that covers the Black Block at Oakland

It discusses how some protesters pushed back against those destroying things. I am not at Oakland. Anyone from there who can comment on the accuracy of this?



http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/11/occupy-oakland-general-strike/all/1

[applegrove]

61. In toronto people were told to point, shout 'black mask', and run away if they

saw someone in black put on a mask. Good advice.

[Leopolds Ghost]

83. Ooh, scary! n/t

[lonestarnot]

89. What if one just wears black? Wow, I guess I better not ever wear a mask and I was

thinking I would get a V mask.

[arikara]

62. This is how to handle them

Police Provocateurs stopped by union leader at anti SPP protest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow&feature=BFa&list=PL0674E0DD448B8FA9&lf=mh_lolz&index=2

[lonestarnot]

91. That was fucking great!

:applause:

[Sgent]

66. This is the city council's problem

wearing masks is not a protected form of protest.

This has been litigated repeatedly, and the supreme's have ruled that hiding your face is not a protected form of speech. In much of the south, protesting with masks is illegal (usually due to prior issues with the KKK).

The cities and towns should pass laws banning masked protests... problem solved.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

68. Some localities have such laws, others dont

In the old days, it was less masks and more about helmets with face shields. They distort enough to make it hard to clearly identify someone and are legal. Kind of like the picture on the Wired article yesterday.

[Leopolds Ghost]

84. And you think that covering your face is not a protected form of speech? Interesting.

Do you support French anti-chador laws too?

[Prometheus Bound]

67. Just get everyone to point and scream: "COPS! PIGS!

If they really are anarchists that insult would be too painful to bear.

If they are cops, they'll run for the police line.

[Starry Messenger]

70. +1

[saras]

76. It would be entirely reasonable for OWS to have an across-the-board NO MASKS policy, and enforce it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

79. How?

- There is no single OWS policy making group nor a means to enforce it.
- OWS encampments are mostly on public land where they can not enforce *anything* except by persuasion.
- Most encampments have chosen not to use any kind of force against anyone since this is a non-violent movement and they are sticking to that. Shunning and signage are used instead. Some individuals are taking enforcement actions on their own. It does not help the movement in the least and are the ones making the news.

Bear in mind that most of the black block types wear helmets as shown in the pics from Oakland. More effective than masks...

[lonestarnot]

88. Dirty bastards right there.

[Leopolds Ghost]

90. Who? Where?

I'm still wondering where these phantom evildoers are.

[lonestarnot]

92. well check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow&feature=BFa&list=PL0674E0DD448B8FA9&lf=mh_lolz&index=2

[lonestarnot]

93. Welp did you look at it?

[Leopolds Ghost]

95. Yes. It's good to see the provocateurs being pointed out.

People should be judged by their actions...

Though I must say those are the beefiest looking "anarcho punks" I've ever seen. You'd think they'd hire scrawnier detectives to masquerade as... so what is their MO? rile up 15 year old kids to throw the rock? or rile up the union leader into taking a swing at them so they can arrest the moderates?