"The problem with socialism, is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

[Faithful One]

How do you respond to this famous right wing quote?

I get tired of hardcore CON's using it and me being left speechless.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Ask them to stop driving on public roads.

[villager]

2. Or using any kind of public infrastructure whatsoever

n/t

[999998th word]

10. Yeah I've seen the bumpersticker. The stupid......

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Do they mean like the Bank Bailouts?

Socialize the risk privatize the profits.

Ask about that

[SharonAnn]

4. The problem with capitalism is that they end with everyone else's money.

[SharonAnn]

84. With capitalism, you run out of other people's money to steal!

Famous quote:

"The problem with socialism is socialism itself. The problem with capitalism is capitalists."

IOW, greed is not good.

[ohheckyeah]

5. How come they never run out

of other people's money to finance their wars? Or their subsidies to Exxon Mobile?

You really find it that hard to come up with a response?

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. +1n/t

[Incitatus]

52. DING DING DING!

[banned from Kos]

6. First - its true. Second - do you want to back out of SS/Medicare?

"Socialism" is very popular in the 55-100 age group.

[Ichingcarpenter]

17. First its not true second advocating socialism is not age determent.

I get your point but its not much use as an argument.to use for the OP
as you stated it.

[PDJane]

7. Tell them that the problem with capitalism

Is that eventually, you run into the place the US is now; with a top heavy system that will collaps from the weight at the top.

[lob1]

9. If you're in the street, you can probably point to a bank that's

stealing our money right now.

[Starry Messenger]

11. Wealth is entirely created by labor.

The rich are rich from taking our money. Socialism is the mechanism for getting some of it back.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

55. Amen!

I'm surprised no one brought that up yet.

The products of Labor have been stolen by the parasites masquerading as capitalists (actually, there is no difference between a parasite and those who steal the surplus value of Labor).

[sam11111]

12. in S., people work Monday to Friday, forever generating new money. nt

[gort]

13. Capitalists only believe in socialism when they need to be bailed out.

Privatize the gains. Socialize the losses.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. You can't win because it's one of the tenets of their faith, along with

1. "Taxation is theft."

2. "If all the money in the world were divided up equally, the same people would be rich and poor five years later."

3. "The only people who vote 'Democrat' are the ones who are living off the government."

4. "Obama is a Marxist."

I don't have to list them all.

[krispos42]

15. "Capitalism never fails because it has socialism to bail it out"

Or, just replace "socialism" with "capitalism".

[Drew Richards]

16. Tell them their quote is incomplete...it should say "PURE SOCIALISM"

In pure Socialism all and everything is to be divided among the many. This can lead to chaos and has been found to be unsustainable as is EVERY form of pure government or ISM...capitalism, communism....

In A Social Democracy there is a balance between the needs of the many and the needs of the few...or the one...which is what our country was founded on is explained perfectly in the Preamble of the Constitution, ask them if you need to read it to them, for the, you know...big words....

[themadstork]

19. Divvying resources up among the many has been found to be unsustainable?

Are you hiding a huge wad of evidence in your pocket, or was this bit of propaganda intended to go unquestioned?

[themadstork]

18. All resources are limited

Most right-wingers are caught up in infantile games of "oooooh don't take it it's MINE!" Those who can see past their own shoelaces try to figure out ways to distribute these limited resources in ways that benefit the most people.

We're at a strange place right now in terms of how we think about property rights. We take as axiomatic ideas that are pretty hard hard to justify in terms of natural rights. I can understand even the loosest interpretations of "domicile"-style thinking on property rights, but whence does your right to own a villa in five different nations naturally derive? Or your right to hoard enough money to feed thousands of families?

It seems to boil down to the fact that we were founded as a nation meant to serve the land-owners, and even after all this time it is still considered blasphemy to question the rights of the propertied.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

57. Quoted for truth ...

Most right-wingers are caught up in infantile games of "oooooh don't take it it's MINE!" Those who can see past their own shoelaces try to figure out ways to distribute these limited resources in ways that benefit the most people.

We're at a strange place right now in terms of how we think about property rights. We take as axiomatic ideas that are pretty hard hard to justify in terms of natural rights. I can understand even the loosest interpretations of "domicile"-style thinking on property rights, but whence does your right to own a villa in five different nations naturally derive? Or your right to hoard enough money to feed thousands of families?

It seems to boil down to the fact that we were founded as a nation meant to serve the land-owners, and even after all this time it is still considered blasphemy to question the rights of the propertied.

[MFrohike]

20. Ah, bumper sticker slogans

Response: That's what we're trying to tell Wall Street.

[JanMichael]

21. The real problem is what is called "Lemon Socialism".

We keep inheriting lemons.

[JI7]

22. is that a famous right wing quote ? i never heard of it that much

but as others have said it's not hard to respond to that. just mention wars, military etc

[HughBeaumont]

23. One can say the same damned thing about capitalism. In fact . . .

Lot of RW talking points there, right? Funny thing is, all of their points mean is that this book should be called "The Politically Incorrect guide to CAPITALISM".

And Sweden is NOT a "soshulist" country - they have a mixed economy with highly regulated capitalism and Democratic Socialism for balance and assurance their nation's poor don't plunge into the abyss.

[Lasher]

42. Sweden is not successful? Their per capita GDP is higher than ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita">List of countries by GDP

So is their quality of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-of-life_Index">List of countries by quality of life

So what are we? Worse than unsuccessful?

[HughBeaumont]

47. Ummmmmmmmm . . . point to where I said they weren't successful.

I don't believe I implied that at all.

I merely said they weren't a purely socialistic country, as this PIG book asserts.

[Lasher]

56. It says it in the graphic you were mocking.

The one from the pig book.

[HughBeaumont]

78. Right - here's what I meant -

Take the rundown of RW assertions on the cover and replace "socialism" with "capitalism".

Then, for the Sweden quote, replace "Sweden" with "America" so the quote could read that capitalism "isn't even successful in model countries like America", and it's not. If it were, it wouldn't need to continually get bailed out by socialism when it fails.

[Lasher]

86. I knew just what you meant and in my way I was trying to agree with you.

Lighten up, have a beer or three. Go outside and enjoy the beautiful autumn day. I'm going to take my own advice right now.

:toast:

[HughBeaumont]

87. If only.

I'm stuck at work for an Office 2007 upgrade. :(

[JHB]

24. Remind them that back in the Cold War, top marginal tax rates were some 90%

Did that make us " socialist"? And if so, just what was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

59. They were state capitalist (USSR) n/t

[rucky]

25. To paraphrase Elizabeth Warren

"Nobody gets rich on their own"

[Hanks]

26. Just ask them

if Norway, Sweden, France, and other more advanced countries than ours has run out of money yet?

[girl gone mad]

27. Simple.

Remind them that the original source of virtually all of the money in our economy is the government, not other people.

Our government can never run out of money.

[kestrel91316]

28. Don't feed the trolls, people.

[RandiFan1290]

29. cool story, bro

[sfpcjock]

30. I'd say the same thing of American facism which is what we've got.

What is it when a Congress says to Whirlpool, "we will pay you to LBO Maytag and close it, we will pay you to move thousands of jobs offshore so people have no work and you can trade real wages with benefits and environmental protection for slave labor overseas. We will pay you extra to do that." ???

[Davis_X_Machina]

31. I ask them if it's difficult working a language...

...where there's no first-person plural forms of the verb, or of pronouns.

[deutsey]

32. You're really left speechless by that?

:rofl:

[mmonk]

33. Jesus asked people who is pictured on currency.

[FarCenter]

34. It is a problem with democracy, not with socialism

Popular democracy tends to lead to over consumption by the middle class, thievery by the rich, and an absence of investment for the future.

Socialism, where the means of production are owned by the state, does not have to be democratic.

The USSR and China both demonstrated a high capacity for planning for the future, investing in industrialization, educating the population, and limiting consumption. Both went from underdeveloped agrarian societies to developed and highly industrialized societies within several decades.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

65. A point of contention ...

Socialism is not having the "means of production owned by the state." The U.S.S.R's Bolsheviks and other state socialists wanted it that way, but that's not what it is. In the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks politically stole the power from the soviets in order to effect their brand of socialism (ironically, while Lenin said, "All power to the soviets!). They believed in a Vanguard party and a central committee of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" to administer the affairs of the state on "behalf" of the workers (who, by the way, were still alienated from their product).

Socialism is Labor having control of the means of production.

Quite a difference.

[FarCenter]

69. Labor having control of the means of production is meaningless unless "control" is defined

"Labor" as an abstract, amorphous mass is not capable of "control" over modern industrial enterprises without some form of organization that expedites decision making and management.

Organization necessarily functionalizes roles, defines responsibilities and devolves powers so that the complex processes of society can work.

Therefore, the design of the political system is even more important with collective ownership.

A capitialist society can survive with a fairly inept political system, but a socialist society is much more demanding of its political system, since the political system is responsible for allocating capital, labor, and resources to achieve social goals, rather than simply setting up a framework to enable free market capitialism to optimize economic output in the short run.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

76. Not at all ...

Worker's self-management at the company, trade, and industrial level is perfectly capable without a political organization to "functionalize roles." History of such worker-controlled systems exist such as the Paris and Lyon Communes or the Syndicalists in Catalonia and other parts of Spain during the Spanish Civil war. Worker uprisings in 1920 in Italy, Zapatistas, etc.

I don't agree with your premise at all.

I also don't agree with your premise that a free-market is compatible with capitalism. If you want free-market socialism, you may want to look into the ideas put forth by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, who himself adopted some of his platform from the Mutualiests in Lyon in the early 1840s.

Mutualism

Participatory Economics (Economic Democracy)

Studies in Mutualist Political Economy

THE IRON FIST BEHIND THE INVISIBLE HAND: Corporate Capitalism As a State-Guaranteed System of Privilege (Free-Enterprise vs. Capitalism)

Anarchism: From Theory to Practice
Chapter from the above: Self-Management

Your rejoinder also did nothing to refute that socialism isn't the state "owning the means of production."

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ck4829]

36. The problem with our capitalism, is that eventually all the people you step on kinda get upset

That's what's happening now.

[Fool Count]

37. That's funny. Replace "socialism" with "capitalism" and you have

a succinctly insightful summary of the problem bedeviling the world economy now.

[Cosmocat]

38. Walk up to a concrete wall and smash your head on it ...

cause you have a better chance of not losing your mind while trying to bust through a concrete wall than "debate" someone who spews this kind of crape into reality ...

Seriously, just walk away, because any reason or fact that you interject will be discarded QUICKLY ... They will ignor it, spew another mind bending talking point, change the discussion ...

I have tried. There is nothing that an evil "liberal" can say that is not discarded out of hand.

Only time or circumstances and them somehow coming to it themselves can change the mindset.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

67. Tell them that if they don't listen to you liberals ...

... then they'll have to contend with us socialists.

I'm sure they'll work out a compromise. ;)

[Cosmocat]

90. Liberals, socialists, communists, facists, spawn of satan

all one of and the same to them ...

It really is a lost cause ...

[dawg]

39. Socialism is common ownership of the means of production.

The people, through their goverement, own the factories and businesses. As new wealth is created, it is divided amongst its owners - the people. There is no need to take other people's money - the new wealth that is created each day belongs to all.

This "running out of other people's money" notion would only apply in a situation where all productive work permanently stopped. Even under Communism, that is not the case.

I don't advocate Socialism for the U.S.. But such a system would be sustainable. Anyone who things otherwise is ignroant of what the term "socialism" actually means.

[RegieRocker]

40. Better to run out of other peoples money than your own.

[Fumesucker]

41. How does a Monopoly game end?

One person has all the money.

And yet everyone starts out with the same amount.

[hunter]

46. Perfect!

A Monopoly game with a progressive tax structure and generous social benefits would last forever.

Everybody would just keep going 'round the board staying at nice hotels and enjoying life.

[Cal Carpenter]

43. It's a total straw man

it's not about 'other people's money. The redistribution of wealth is one tiny step of a total economic system being changed. It is money that was basically stolen by the wealthy/powerful from the working class whose productivity has increased while wages get suppressed.

Who determines the wages? Oh, that's right, the people who are skimming the profits form other people's work and putting it in their own pockets. The money is STOLEN to begin with. No one naturally accumulates that much wealth.

Socialism is about control of the means of production by the working class more than anything else.

There would be no 'other people' with a shit-ton of money under socialism. The resources belong to the all the people - they don't get owned by a small number of people who profit off the labor of others.

[Bigmack]

44. The problem with capitalism is that

it's based on the logical and physical impossibility of infinite growth in a finite system...... Ms Bigmack

[Marr]

45. If this brain dead slogan leaves you "speechless", I don't know what to tell you.

It's not even worth rebutting. It just doesn't mean anything, and displays a complete lack of understanding of basic economics.

[Ikonoklast]

48. Capitalist Jeebus will provide.

Go away, you're bothering people waaaay smarter than you.

[hunter]

49. Sometimes ducks quack at me.

There's really no point in quacking back.

The only want my bread.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

81. LOL ... love that. n/t

[SOS]

50. The problem

with endless wars, Wall Street bailouts and corporate welfare is that eventually your nation collapses.

[kiranon]

51. Fair taxation is not socialism - and without it, governments fall whatever

their name.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

53. That they should really think about what they're saying ...

Because that's not what socialism is about.

[DirkGently]

54. "The problem with capitalism, is that eventually you run out of socialists to bail your ass out."

[TBF]

58. My response -

the problem with trolls is that we feed them.

[white_wolf]

60. I'm left speechless too. The ignorance shown in your quote is jaw-dropping.

Not your ignorance, but the ignorance of the people you are quoting. They are making the common mistake of associating taxes and social programs with socialism. While socialists might fight for those reforms to provide some relief to the working class, those reforms are not socialism, but whether more tolerable capitalism.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

61. Hahah ...

... as I was reading this thread, "Rightwing Pigeons" by the Dead Milkmen came on my Pandora. Hmmmmm ...

[Gamow]

62. "The problem with capitalism, is that eventually you've stolen all the money."

[ehrnst]

63. Somalia is their utopia - no taxes, no government interference in anything. (nt)

[county worker]

64. There is no other peoples money. How did the income gap grow so wide?

It grew because of conservative political decisions. Some how our money became other peoples' money.

[Lex]

66. The problem with capitalism is that eventually rich folks eventually take all your money.

nt

[Taverner]

68. My response: You don't understand what Socialism is, do you?

In fact, HEAVY emphasis, ala Lewis Black, on the DO....YOU.... :)

[AngryAmish]

70. Tell them to shut up or you will take a dump in their children's mouths

[surrealAmerican]

71. People who say that not only misunderstand ...

... what "socialism" is, they misunderstand what "money" is.

It's hard to argue with somebody that ignorant.

[Zorra]

72. No worries. They'll just print more. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

73. What are they using money for, firewood? Money isn't consumed, it's transferred.

This can't be refuted because it's not an argument, it's just a slogan.

[City Lights]

74. This looks like a hit and run.

Well, Faithful One, there are lots and lots and lots of suggestions here for you. Do you think any of them are helpful? :shrug:

[Avalux]

75. Who said that "famous" quote? I'd really like to know.

Response:

It's ALL of our money - we the people. Right now, we have a plutocracy, where the 1% have taken so much of the 99%'s money, there isn't any left.

And just in case you don't know, the right wing's definition of socialism is twisted and EVIL.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

77. Punch them in the face for being a moronic rightwing parrot. n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

79. That's the same problem Wall Street is facing . . .

[WCGreen]

80. On the other hand, with capitalism, you eventually run out of workers

to exploit...

[JuniperLea]

82. It was never other people's money...

It's everyone's money. Everyone contributes and everyone benefits. Cheaper by the dozen, collective barganing, etc. It saves us all money in the long run.

Right now, the 1% are running out of money from the 99%. We have been supporting them by paying for everything. That's the issue.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

83. "The problem with capitalism, is that you eventually run out of people to steal from."

[Raksha]

85. FWIW, this was my reply on Facebook a couple of days ago

when someone posted that stupid Thatcher quote:

Re "That's complete and total b.s. Socialism is NOT about "other people's money"! It's OUR money and the fruit of OUR labors and in many cases OUR houses that the rich and powerful stole from us, and socialism aka redistribution of wealth is basically a matter of recovering stolen property."

It might not be the greatest response in the world, but at least it was spontaneous. And at least I didn't let it pass by in silence the way I usually do.

[999998th word]

88. So she is the one who originally spewed that bullshit.

:puke:

[DeSwiss]

89. Then get rid of money. :-/ n/t