Can we keep away from threats of violence, even in jest?

[Courtesy Flush]

Remember how we roasted the right over their violent rhetoric? Can't we learn from that, and not make the same mistake?

I subscribed to a pro-Obama Facebook page, and they've been posting a lot of OWS stuff. Today, they posted a cartoon of a guillotine being built on Wall Street. I pointed out that this was not appropriate, and added that I would be un subscribing to the page, which I did.

A little while later I checked to see if anyone agreed with what I said (hoping the cartoon had been removed), and my post had been deleted.

We lose all credibility when we go against our stated values.

[Richardo]

1. I concur.

[FSogol]

2. Do we have guillotines around ready to be used on the rich? Isn't that just a metaphoric

reference to the French Revolution rather than a call for violence?

:shrug:

[TheWraith]

13. That's what Palin's people would have said about the crosshairs map.

You know, the one that targeted Giffords.

It's never as much of a joke as people pretend it is.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Again - we don't HAVE guillotines. They HAVE guns.

See the difference?

[TheWraith]

22. You're splitting hairs to ignore the point. nt

[Robb]

36. Splitting crosshairs, even.

Sorry. Couldn't stop myself.

Carry on.

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. Splitting hairs:

What is the difference between a guy on the street with a leashed Rottie saying "I'm going to sic my dog on you", and a on on the street with an umbrella in hand saying "I'm going to sic my dog on you"?

Think about it. Give up?

THE SECOND GUY DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING DOG!

Are the threats equivalent? Is the second man even MAKING a threat? Or is it just splitting hairs to differentiate between them?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FSogol]

27. LOL, I don't know why the right even bothers criticizing us, we do a good enough job ourselves.

:shrug:

[redqueen]

3. Agreed.

The 1% would love nothing better than an excuse to crack down hard.

[TBF]

7. They will crack down no matter what we say -

witness what happened to Dr. MLK Jr. Folks were annoyed with marches re race, but he didn't get killed until he started talking seriously about class.

[redqueen]

9. Eventually, yes.

Giving them an excuse to do it sooner rather than later is stupid.

[TBF]

10. You don't have to give thugs "an excuse" - they will do what they want when they want -

witness our comrade Scott Olsen. Did he give them an excuse?

[redqueen]

12. That wasn't cracking down.

That was barely a warning shot.

[TBF]

15. Answer the question - did he do a thing to provoke that "warning shot"? nt

[redqueen]

16. deleted

pointless

we'll agree to disagree

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. Depends on your tactics.

It is a well accepted precept in Sun Tzu that taking action that forces the enemy's hand before he is ready can win you the advantage.

Do you want to push a crackdown before or after they've built the concentration camps?

[Occulus]

4. Someone here doesn't know their history, methinks n/t

[Courtesy Flush]

34. Then why don't you explain it to me

I know that the French Revolution was a bloodbath, and that the wealthy were executed without regard to their guilt or innocence.

I know that after they ran out of rich people and beurocrats they started killing citizens for the most trivial offenses, and that tens of thousands died in the Reign of Terror.

Or were you referring to something else?

[valerief]

5. The 1%ers built the guillotine. And the drones. And the lobbyist laws.

[county worker]

6. The idea was a reference to the French revolution.

[Courtesy Flush]

31. Gee, ya think?

Yes, I'm well aware of the French Revolution. If you too are aware, then you know how it turned out. Not only was it a bloody revolution, but they turned against themselves as well. They got so bloodthirsty that no one was safe.

[TBF]

8. My view is that the 1% are the ones waging war -

and workers have no choice but to defend themselves. And I'm not going to preach to victims about how to defend themselves. They should just keep taking it, right?

[gratuitous]

11. Good luck with that

This is the land of the High Church of Redemptive Violence. We trust in violence in ways we don't trust in practically anything else. Prayers can go unanswered, people will refuse money, cars won't start, and the weather is a crap shoot on any given day, but violence? Oh baby, we believe in it as the panacea for whatever ails us! And if violence appears to fail to answer any given situation, the only reasonable solution is more violence.

But it's good of you to ask.

[redqueen]

14. +1

[Bigmack]

17. I'll refrain from threats....

.. the question is: If things get tougher, will the rest of the country.

I'm not threatening... I love peace and prosperity, but people with no prosperity might not be peaceful.

I'm not threatening, but History is.

[sabrina 1]

18. The OWS movement is seriously non-violent, if people are

representing themselves as part of that movement by using violence, they are not, they are most likely infiltrators. I wouldn't worry about it, and I would not have given them credit for being part of a non-violent movement by asking them to refrain from violence. It's clear if they are violent, they are not part of the movement, that has been made clear over and over again. I would simply make that point, that the minute they promote violence, they are exposed as infiltrators.

[blindpig]

19. It is entirely appropriate

It of course references the French Revolution and the fate of a ruling class which has worn out it's welcome. They should take note, these sentiments are wide spread.

Pacifism is for sheep going to the slaughter. If we utterly accept the proposition that violence is the sole preserve of the State and this State is the tool of the ruling class then we consign ourselves to permanent servitude. Fuck that.

[Nye Bevan]

21. The nice thing about a democracy is that we don't need violence.

We can replace every branch of Government simply by casting our votes, which I'm pretty sure wasn't the case in prerevolutionary France. And 99% of the people have 99% of the votes.

[blindpig]

35. Replace them with other capitalist tools. Big deal.

Our political system is unresponsive to the will of the people by design.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. And if 1% succeeds in buying 50% of the votes, the other 49% are fucked. nt

[TheWraith]

23. There's a big difference between non-pacifism and rabble rousing.

And even more between non-pacifism and picking a fight.

[blindpig]

38. Picking a fight? This is self defence.

They have been waging class war upon us for a long time.

[TheWraith]

40. Making references to mass executions and purges is not "self defense." nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. Violence is always bad, even when absolutely necessary.

The point is, violence is a nearly inevitable reaction to repression.

Reminding the 1% about the fate of their ideological progenitors is a decidedly NON-violent act - it is a warning of something they may refuse to believe can happen to them.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

[DeSwiss]

26. ''We lose all credibility when we go against our stated values.''

Hmmmm, well I'm all for that. But tell me, does this rule about losing credibility when we go against the things we stand for and have publicly stated we support, apply to everyone?

WASHINGTON (AP) - The European debt crisis has claimed its first big casualty on Wall Street, a securities firm run by former New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine. MF Global Holdings Ltd., which Corzine has headed since early last year, filed for bankruptcy protection Monday.

(snip)

MF Global turned a profit just three times in the past 12 quarters.

(snip)

Corzine is also a top fundraiser for President Barack Obama. Corzine has helped raised at least $500,000 for Obama's re-election campaign since April, according to records released by the campaign.

http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20111031&id=14458660">MORE

- Or does it just apply to us chickens here here at DU?

[Sheepshank]

28. good idea.

Whatever the RW media concocts....fix it, removed the cause for the complaint (within reason). Don't give 'em anything to use as ammunition against OW. Complaints over the mess should be met with those willing to clean up their mess. Complaints about obstructing access, should be met with making sure everyone has free access to public places. etc etc.

[NightWatcher]

29. if they're not scared of us, why would they change their ways?

there needs to be a certain amount of fear that we'll storm their ivory castles and lop off their heads, else they'll not take us seriously

[LanternWaste]

30. It's not a question of credibility, it's a question of literacy...

I know the difference between language designed to incite and mere metaphor.

I would think that the responsibility of anyone who is unable to grasp that particular facet of our language lays with them.

It's not a question of credibility, it's a question of literacy.

[JuniperLea]

32. I think handcuffs are a better image anyway...

We don't want them dead, we just want them locked up where they belong. Why not be honest and leave the metaphor es to poets?

[lunatica]

33. I appreciate your sentiment and commend you on following our own advice

But even though I don't make violent remarks I really don't like being admonished just in case I might at some point.

[Courtesy Flush]

37. I didn't mention you specifically

Double checking... Nope. You're not named in the OP, so don't be offended for being admonished when you haven't.

[lunatica]

39. What I was trying to hint at is that being the self appointed morality police

on DU is pure conceit. You imply that you're somehow better than people who might express their anger in terms that are less than you deem saintly.

And I'm not offended since I don't care much what the morality police deem appropriate.

[Iggo]

43. You said "We".

Presumably, that's all of us.

[hobbit709]

45. Remember the Mark Twain statement about who had the right to use "we"

[Iggo]

46. LOL.

That reminds me, gotta feed the worm.