DADT or START?

[WilliamPitt]

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/12/battle_of_the_acronyms.php?ref=fpblg

[Occam Bandage]

1. DADT, and then START if there's time.

DADT is a hot-button topic, and the type of social issue the Republicans love to whip their base up "protecting." No way the Republican House would pass DADT. There is broad political consensus, however, for passing START; the only thing in the way is the general Republican desire to deny the President any successes. If anything could pass in the next two years, START could.

[polmaven]

2. I agree!

n/t

[karynnj]

19. START needs 67 votes in the Senate

They will lose one Republican, Voinovich, and it is not clear they can get any of the new Republicans.

There is NO other way to get confirmation of a treaty - and they have the votes now. In addition, Obama has agreed to money for missile defense - that is a sweetener and is not contingent on this passing. That means it could well pass in the budget - making START even tougher to pass.

DADT is an important civil rights issue, but if the legislative route is blocked judicial or executive solutions exist.

[terrya]

3. DADT first.

There's still a very good chance START will pass in the new Senate.

This is the LAST chance for DADT. Unless everyone involved wants the courts to end it.

[karynnj]

20. "Very good" You are that sure there are 14 Republicans that will

vote for START - but no way that there are 7 to vote for DADT?

Not to mention, Lieberman and Reid really messed up - not even counting who was there.

[dsc]

24. The House would have to pass DADT next year but wouldn't have to pass START

and no GOP House will pass a repeal of DADT.

[karynnj]

26. List 14 Senators that will vote for START

Neither have a good chance next year.

[dsc]

27. All of the following

Both Maine Senators (Snowe, Collins), Brown of MA, Lugar of IN, Grassley of IA, Hatch of UT, Murkowski of AK, Burr of NC, Grahm of SC, Bailey Hutchenson of TX, McCain of AZ, Ensign of NV, and Kirk of IL.

[karynnj]

28. Why did many vote against cloture?

McCain was not supportive on the Senate floor - bringing up completely extraneous issues - http://www.c-spanvideo.org/videoLibrary/clip.php?appid=599286868


Not to mention, they are already well into the 30 hours they must spend before the next cloture vote.

Has Reid called for a cloture vote on DADT? Have the Republicans said they are ready for the cloture vote? Have Senators been told there will be votes tomorrow? If not, the timing on these two bills will not conflict.

The bill it WILL conflict with is the budget. The Democrats prefer to pass a budget to a continuing statement - because otherwise the Republicans will not fund many things that will be funded.

[terrya]

29. Reid is now saying there may not be a vote on DADT repeal before Christmas

It keeps getting pushed back farther and farther.

The whole question on whether DADT repeal is even voted on in the Senate this year may be completely moot.

[TwilightGardener]

4. DADT--because START will get through eventually.

[alex cross]

5. A treaty that could possibly affect every man, woman and child

on earth or a policy that affects 2% of the population?

Don't know, tough call.

[FailureToCommunicate]

8. I'd argue on civil rights, but you're correct: nuked is nuked. Trumps everything else.

Damn, why are Repubs the lowest form of life on the planet?

[walldude]

12. Only for someone like you.

Lets see... political theater or human rights...

[karynnj]

21. START is not "political theatre"

Both issues are extremely important - and neither would have a good chance next year.

The fact is that on DU the question is obvious - DADT is an emotional issue and it is right to end a bad policy. START is an issue that I didn't bother to post anything on hearings - because I doubted that I would get more than 10 readers - and more likely zero.

But, between the administration and the Senate, a huge amount of work has been done on START. Failing to pass it will have a huge negative impact on Obama's foreign policy. Russia has worked with us on sanction for Iran (an alternative to stronger action) and North Korea and Russia has been allowed access routes for troops into Afghanistan.

The point is this doesn't have to be either or - and in fact the debate on START began yesterday and is happening now - why waste the hours already tallied on this. It might make more sense to announce that rather than the budget, they will temporarily fund the government with a continuing resolution. The budget has yet to be addressed and it not START is the real competitor to DADT.

[rucky]

14. Both bills affect everybody.

[FreeState]

15. 2%? and DADT effects every American n/t

[Bluebear]

23. Wow.

[AlinPA]

6. Neither. The republicans will not allow any foreign policy achievements and certainly

not the Repeal of DADT. There is no benefit for them in either, but especially DADT Repeal which would incite their teabagger and fundamentalist base to riot.

[Brickbat]

7. I still miss my favorite spoonful of alphabet soup, EFCA.

[bushisanidiot]

9. DADT MUST be passed now! START will pass next year.

but nothing is going to move forward until the FUCKING TAX BILL IS PASSED. We need to get that out of the way and off the table so we can get DADT repealed. It's our only hope, at least for a few years, of getting it done.

[karynnj]

22. As you are so sure - please list the 14 Republican Senators you think will vote for it

The truth is that you likely do not care if the treaty passes or not. The START treaty is in its second day of debate - and it is possible that it will get the cloture vote needed to end debate before the House acts. That may mean that it is not really what will be competing for time with DADT.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. I'll hope for DADT

But the reality is - the Republicans aren't going to allow anything that they can't see having a direct impact to making the wealthy wealthier. I don't think this Adminstration will be getting much of anything done. No fault of their own - I just think that until we have 4, 5, 6 parties that are contenders - the Republicans and Teapublicans will always get THEIR way.

If they don't want either of these - then forget about it. Neither is going to happen.

[DevonRex]

11. DADT must be done now. START will have to wait. nt

[EFerrari]

13. Isn't this the same old false dilemma we're offered,

your civil rights or your life?

DADT should absolutely come first. It's much more likely that a gay person will suffer discrimination today than that you or I will be nuked today. If I have to die in a nuclear holocaust, it would be nice to go molecular with a clear conscience. :)

[Democrats_win]

16. START and then institute DADT for heterosexuals too. End the wars!

[BlueCheese]

17. DADT.

Having said that, if DADT isn't legislatively ended, the courts will do it soon enough. Sooner if the administration stops appealing things.

[bluestateguy]

18. START would have a fighting chance in the new Senate

Whereas, DADT would be dead in the House and Senate after january 4 with the new numbers.

With START you only need the Senate, where the numbers are 53-47, and it would still have a chance of being passed with the needed 67.

[karynnj]

25. Can you list 14 Republican Senators next year that would vote for it?

The fact is that the Republicans delayed this in the summer and then they delayed it before the election.

This is a false choice - especially after START passed cloture and is already in its second day of debate.