"Permits to Protest"??? WTF?

[Sam Hain]

What are we, Russia now??? :shrug:

[piratefish08]

1. permit and protest don't belong in the same sentence.

[dkf]

2. Why do we need permits for anything on public land?

[Cirque du So-What]

6. Well, for one thing, we're not living in a libertarian paradise

where anyone can do whatever they damn well please without regard for the rights of anyone else. Example: I think I'll buy a dozen head of cattle and take them to graze in the closest national park, where they'll foul the water and land with their waste, eat the native species and start serious problems with erosion. State parks are public land too, and so are city lands. A city park! That's the ticket! Lots of green grass there for my cattle to eat, and they can drink right out of the fountain! I'll just run some electric fence to keep 'em pent up...but then, if everyone else is free to do whatever they damn well please as well, I'll have to stand guard (armed, natch) against cattle rustlers, who feel entitled to take whatever is not nailed down on public land. This could get to be a real problem...

[dkf]

11. You just need ground rules. Why you need a permit above that is a waste to me.

[AngryAmish]

15. Can I graze my cattle on the village green?

look up Commons, Tragedy of.

[itsallhappening]

23. Because we're trying to have a civilization here.

[Skidmore]

3. Really. State property belongs to the people.

I've been thinking about this also this week. Why should people be arrested for entering public property?

[AngryAmish]

16. Fort Knox is public property

Come to think of it, all the gold there is public property too. Can I have that?

[ck4829]

4. "Make sure your protest has as little impact as possible"

[CJvR]

5. Not uncommon.

In Sweden you need a permit to hold a demonstration. Permits are almost always given and the main purpose are to give the police a chanse to prepare to manage the event and also to have someone who is responsible for keeping order during the protest.

[Cirque du So-What]

9. It's commonplace in this country as well

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., was arrested on more than one occasion for protesting without a permit. If he had no success in getting the requirements that municipalities place upon organized protestors overturned, I'm sure that anonymous internet bloggers will be able to tippy-tap a few times and - voilà! - the problem will evaporate faster than cow piss on a hot rock.

Actually, I agree to the extent that no one should ever be turned down for a permit to protest on specious grounds, but it'll take much, much more than a few people grousing about it on an internet discussion board. Municipalities will cite their need to guard against security risks, for example, and they have long years of past precedent to cite.

[maddezmom]

7. who is the we you are talking about, US, Canada???

[HereSince1628]

8. Welcome to the rule of law...

Permit requirements for assembly and/or parading on public property are common. Rules and regulations vary by jurisdiction.

[htuttle]

10. A Permit turns a Protest into a Parade

Sometimes they're appropriate, sometimes not.

[Nye Bevan]

12. So you think people should be allowed to protest any time, anywhere?

Including at 3 AM right outside your house?

[Javaman]

14. Sure, as long as it's on public property. I might not like it but

that old constitution is aways so inconvenient.

:eyes:

There are also laws on the books for disturbing the peace, which would more than likely go into effect for a protest at 3 am in front of my home.

[Nye Bevan]

17. OK, so you agree that protests should be shut down under certain circumstances.

Whether you use a "disturbing the peace" statute, or have a permit system, it is not unreasonable to set certain limits.

[Javaman]

18. No, I said there ar laws for disturbing the peace. don't put words in my mouth. nt

[Nye Bevan]

19. When laws for disturbing the peace "go into effect"

that generally means that those disturbing the peace are arrested and hauled away.

In any case, we seem to be in agreement that there is not an absolute right to protest, any time, any where.

[Javaman]

32. again, we don't agree. and again you put words in my mouth...

just like freedom of speech, you can say any damn thing you want, but you also must be prepared for repercussions.

You can yell fire in a theater, but you have to understand that inciting a riot is against the law.

People can protests anywhere at any time, but they have to be prepared for repercussions.

You seem have a problem with understanding how the law works.

there is no limit and shouldn't be a limit to how and when people protest. It's just that the protesters have to be prepared for the repercussions of their actions.

And just because there are repercussions doesn't mean I am for limiting peoples rights for protest at all.

most of the successful protests in our nations history are fraught with illegality. And those types of protests should be continued. Because, it is just those same protests that awaken the publics consciousness to the plight of what ever the issue is.

That is the point of protests: to increase the publics knowledge and awareness of a systemic problem.

[Nye Bevan]

33. You said

"There are also laws on the books for disturbing the peace, which would more than likely go into effect for a protest at 3 am in front of my home".

Now that is an exact quote, cut and pasted from your post, so you cannot say that I am putting words into your mouth.

So when these "laws on the books" "go into effect", the protestors outside your home at 3 AM are arrested and hauled away. That's a limit on the right to protest. Whether these limits are enforced via permits or laws against disturbing the peace, I think most people agree that the right to protest is not unlimited.

[Javaman]

34. yes, there are laws, but I'm not against people protesting.

if you bothered to even read the rest of my post.

Honestly, do you enjoy being contrary or is it a genetic thing?

Damn, we are done, because you enjoy to pick and choose rather than take in the whole statement.

Go away.

[Nye Bevan]

35. I'm not against people protesting, either.

And I also acknowledge that there are laws.

So far from being contrary, I think we are essentially in agreement. :)

[AldebTX]

13. I Vote for Controlled Areas

Maybe a few miles away from where I actually want to protest.....

Oh wait....we already do that.

[Shagbark Hickory]

20. Nothing new about this and I always had a problem with it.

[sinkingfeeling]

21. Permits to hold protests have been required for decades. Even back in the '60s we had to get permits

[PETRUS]

22. Congress shall make NO LAW

(respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.")

"NO LAW" is pretty unambiguous.

[itsallhappening]

24. Congress didn't make a law about permits.

Furthermore, your right to speak doesn't mean someone is obligated to give you a platform.

[PETRUS]

26. You're right.

Who needs democracy? Let the rich & powerful have their way.

[itsallhappening]

27. Who said we don't need democracy?

Nobody in this thread, from what I've read.

It looks like you only want to use the words in the Amendment that suit your position.

[PETRUS]

28. *shrug*

You don't fool me. I've seen your posts and angle of your arguments and opinions. And the bill of rights is clear. Perhaps you think states and municipalities should be exempt from the constitution?

[bdamomma]

25. they just don't want the American people to express themselves

be good sheep and all. good for OWS I hope it continues to spread and continue.

[zanana1]

29. Who remembers Bush's "First Amendment Zones"?

During his inaugural parade, a small amount of space was fenced in behind the crowd of people watching the parade go by. That's what the U.S. government allowed him to get away with.

[lumberjack_jeff]

30. Welcome to DU. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. Consent of the governed.

If the social contract is so messed up that protesting is necessary, it calls into the question the rest of the arrangement, including the validity of the permitting process.