On 2012 Election and OWS

[steelmania75]

So basically the Occupy Movement is organizing a huge convention where they will nominate people to run for Congress on July 4, 2012. How successful do you think the candidates from OWS will be against Dems and Repubs? This could potentially reshape Congress and government as we know it. OWS could be very successful in not only taking many votes from the Democratic base, but from a huge portion of Independents, any remaining moderate Republicans, and attracting a larger percentage of voters(such as that 20% of voters who basically have given up on the two-party system and are waiting for a third party like OWS to arrive). Overall, what are your opinions on OWS's plan?

[steelmania75]

1. bump

[L0oniX]

2. punt

[Fire Walk With Me]

3. I believe Buckminster Fuller is correct:

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”

They do not yet realize that they themselves are the answer...I hope this realization comes quickly, and fully.

[Luminous Animal]

4. Link to the plan, please.

[Zorra]

5. +1

[steelmania75]

7. here you go

http://globalgrind.com/news/occupy-wall-street-releases-list-demands-photos

[Luminous Animal]

10. That comes from the 99% Working Group which, though they support OWS are not OWS and

second, there is nothing in their resolution that calls for nominating anyone to run for anything...

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

Essentially, they are calling for a Constitutional Convention, not an election convention.

[RagAss]

6. Politicians are why we are in the turd bowl. Why create more?

[Recovered Repug]

8. From what I could find about the proposed convention,

I see no plans to run 3rd party candidates.

[steelmania75]

9. so is the plan for OWS to create their own government?

I'm quite confused.

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. The General Assembly is a form of government.

[Luminous Animal]

15. Please note that this does not come from OWS. This comes from the 99% Working Group.

They support OWS and engage in the General Assembly but are also separate.

It actually looks to me that they are attempting to shape the movement.

A link to their call for a National General Assembly
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home

A link to the call to elect representatives of the movement on October 15th (and note that this did not happen)
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home/resolution-to-elect-an-executive-committee

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. Ah, thanks. Something didn't feel right. They'll work it out, it's just growing pains.

[Recovered Repug]

14. This is step 7-9 of the plan.

7. The final declaration, platform and petition of grievances, after being voted upon by the 870 delegates to the National General Assembly would be formally presented by the 870 delegates to all three branches of government and all candidates running for federal public office in November 2012. Thus, the delegates would meet from July 4, 2012 to sometime in early to late October 2012.

8. The delegates to the National General Assembly would then vote on a time period, presently suggested as one year, to give the newly elected government in November an opportunity to redress the petition of grievances. This is our right as a People under the First Amendment.

9. If the government fails to redress the petition of grievances and drastically change the path this country is on, the delegates will demand the resignation and recall of all members of congress, the president and even the Supreme Court and call for new elections by, of and for the PEOPLE with 99 days of the resignation demand.


http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-14/wall_street/30278436_1_election-day-congressional-districts-executive-committee

[loyalsister]

19. I wish some of these planners would join reality

"9. If the government fails to redress the petition of grievances and drastically change the path this country is on, the delegates will demand the resignation and recall of all members of congress, the president and even the Supreme Court and call for new elections by, of and for the PEOPLE with 99 days of the resignation demand."

I hear many people expressing hopelessness. The government doesn't work, etc... And yet there is a sense of arrogance in believing they can essentially take over and build a better system.

It is hard to not see it as a pie in the sky vision based on romantic interpretations of an anarchist theory.

[LoveIsNow]

11. I think it's the only sane thing to do.

Otherwise the Democratic Party will continue to take us for granted. I see great parallels here to the end of the 19th Century when the D's and R's espoused subtly different brands of conservatism, very much like today. In response to this the grassroots People's Party (the Populists) sprang up and, though they were a little disorganized, they won a few governorships and a small contingent in Congress 22 in the House and 5 in the Senate in the 55th Congress, their peak). This was enough to shake the parties up and so under the leadership of William Jennings Bryan, the Democrats took up the causes of the Populists which began the Democrats' role as the "liberal" party for the 20th Century.

The point of that story was that even if they don't totally overthrow the two-party system, good may well come of it.

As for my opinions on their electoral prospects, I think it will all hinge on those voters who have given up as you say. I think that's sort of what the movement is about. I think most of these people realize that the "tea party" is no different from the regular Republican party, but at the Occupy protests you see Anarchist and Socialist symbols that to me indicate it has the balls not to be mainstream. They focus their ire on the system, more than on particular politicians, which indicates that it's a movement about ideas rather than playing politics. There are a lot of people for whom that will resonate, so I think such candidates would have a shot if they were relentless in their messaging and avoided being eaten by the Democratic party.

[WCGreen]

13. Since it is a presidential year, all the primaries will be done and

all they can really do is put out a list of endorsed democrats and republicans or have to get a whole mess more signatures than the party's do to get on the november ballot as independents...

Each state has its own rules about how a candidate appears on the ballot.

[Jim Lane]

17. Complete waste of time and energy. I hope nothing comes of this.

Running their own candidates in the general election would give a significant boost to Republicans up and down the line. At the presidential level, they probably can't field a candidate who would peel off as much of the progressive vote as Nader did in 2000, so the damage would be minimal, but some close downticket races would be swung to the Republicans (in many cases, to the Tea Party).

In #14, Recovered Repug gives a different version of the plan -- no candidates nominated, but a National General Assembly that would be meeting "from July 4, 2012 to sometime in early to late October 2012." In other words, during much of the prime period for influencing the political process -- supporting good candidates in primaries in states that hold later primaries for nonpresidential offices, registering voters, supporting good candidates in the general, etc. -- a large number of activists will be off in their own little world, holding pointless debates about forgiving student loans or establishing IRV or nationalizing all banks or whatever. Then, after the election, they will present their demands to the people who did pay attention to the actual political process, who will ignore them.

To paraphrase Zaphod Beeblebrox: "Ten out of ten for sincerity, but minus several million for good thinking."

[Blue_In_AK]

18. This doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[mdmc]

20. ..