Why Finland’s schools are great (by doing what we don’t)

[TalkingDog]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/ravitch-why-finlands-schools-are-great-by-doing-what-we-dont/2011/10/12/gIQAmTyLgL_blog.html?wprss=answer-sheet

For the past decade, 15-year-old Finnish students have consistently been at or near the top of all the nations tested in reading, mathematics, and science. And just as consistently, the variance in quality among Finnish schools is the least of all nations tested, meaning that Finnish students can get a good education in virtually any school in the nation. That’s equality of educational opportunity, a good public school in every neighborhood.

What makes the Finnish school system so amazing is that Finnish students never take a standardized test until their last year of high school, when they take a matriculation examination for college admission.

Their own teachers design their tests, so teachers know how their students are doing and what they need. There is a national curriculum — broad guidelines to assure that all students have a full education — but it is not prescriptive. Teachers have extensive responsibility for designing curriculum and pedagogy in their school. They have a large degree of autonomy, because they are professionals.

/snip

I think the "trust" entails more than trust. I think there is probably a support system in place, governmental, monetary, etc.

[seabeyond]

1. and the asian schools that beat ours because they are tougher and more stirdent than us

the opposite of finland even more than the u.s.

can't be for any other reason....

doesnt make sense.

[TalkingDog]

4. Link? Provide proof of your assertion that Asian schools are using tougher "more strident" methos

I come here for discussion. If you don't want to discuss, please don't troll.

[seabeyond]

12. troll? i was discussing and you accuse me of troll?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_South_Korea

High schools in South Korea teach students from first grade (age 15-16) to third grade (age 17-18), and students commonly graduate at age 18 or 19. High schools in Korea can be divided into specialty tracks that accord with a student's interest and career path. For example, there are science (Science high school), foreign language and art specialty high schools to which students can attend with prior entrance examinations, which are generally highly competitive. Other type of high schools include public high schools and private high schools, both with or without entrance examinations. These high schools do not report to specialize in a field, but are more focused on sending their students to college. For students who do not wish a college education, vocational schools specializing in fields such as technology, agriculture or finance are available, in which the students are employed right after graduation. Around 30% of high school students are in vocational high schools.<6> On noting the schedule of many high school students, it is not abnormal for them to arrive home from school at midnight, after intensive "self-study" sessions supported by the school. The curriculum is often noted as rigorous, with as many as 11 or so subjects and most of the students choose to attend private academies called 학원 (學院, pronounced hagwon) to boost their academic performance. Core subjects include Korean, English and Math, with adequate emphasis on social and physical science subjects. It is critical to note that the type and level of subjects may differ from school to school, depending on the degree of selectivity and specialization of the school

[JackintheGreen]

15. My daughter went to school in India for middle school

They, at least, DO use "tougher and more strident" methods of instruction. What personal experience do you have with it?

[seabeyond]

16. i didnt see india on list i found, but we have a handful of kids from india in sons school

damn, they are tough. "tougher and more strident" to say the least.

hubby friends with a couple of the fathers and he works on their computer. he has come home telling me the difference in our homes. adn i am pretty tough on kids compared to a lot of u.s. parents.

[LonePirate]

2. I wonder if the Finnish people care about how all of the country's children are being educated.

I suspect the Finnish people and elected officials do not see the educational system as a means to earn a profit or attract public dollars for personal or corporate gain.

[mzteris]

3. What's the poverty level in Finland? n/t

[TalkingDog]

5. Here.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+the+poverty+level+in+Finland%3F

[mzteris]

7. rhetorical questions...

designed to get people to think about this just a wee bit more.

Their starting point is someplace COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

[TalkingDog]

9. I agree. Which is why I suggested it was more than "trust".

Which leads to your "rhetorical questions" becoming snark rather than actual discussion.

[mzteris]

10. no snark intended at all.

Just you cannot compare Finland to the United States.

Apples and kumquats.

[seabeyond]

13. seems if you dont fall all over this OPs post, it results in name calling. nt

[Sabriel]

8. And there's the demographic point that matters.

Low-income status.

[mzteris]

6. what's the racial disparity?

and level of racial discrimination?

What's the homelessness rate?

What's the substandard housing?

What's the drug abuse rate?

Child abuse?

Incarceration?

[izquierdista]

18. There is racial discrimination....

...because they do have a right-wing party.

I'm not sure whether they are complaining about the sneaky Lapps, or the shiftless Romani, or the drunken Estonians, but I am sure there is some "other" that is the cause of all their social problems.

[mzteris]

20. um - I think you missed the point...

institutionalized racism in this country is still affecting the education system.

[mzteris]

11. The Finnish education system

The Finnish education system is an egalitarian Nordic system, with no tuition fees and with free meals served to full-time students.

The present Finnish education system consists of well-funded and carefully thought out daycare programs (for babies and toddlers) and a one-year "pre-school" (or kindergarten for six-year olds);

a nine-year compulsory basic comprehensive school (starting at age seven and ending at the age of sixteen);

post-compulsory secondary general academic and vocational education;

higher education (University and Polytechnical);

and adult (lifelong, continuing) education.

The Nordic strategy for achieving equality and excellence in education has been based on constructing a publicly funded comprehensive school system without selecting, tracking, or streaming students during their common basic education.<1> Part of the strategy has been to spread the school network so that pupils have a school near their homes whenever possible or, if this is not feasible, e.g. in rural areas, to provide free transportation to more widely dispersed schools. Inclusive special education within the classroom and instructional efforts to minimize low achievement are also typical of Nordic educational systems.<1>

After their nine-year basic education in a comprehensive school, students at the age of 16 may choose to continue their secondary education in either an academic track (lukio) or a vocational track (ammattikoulu), both of which usually take three years. Tertiary education is divided into university and polytechnic (ammattikorkeakoulu, often translated into English as "university of applied sciences") systems. Only universities award licentiate- and doctoral-level degrees. Formerly, only university graduates could obtain higher (postgraduate) degrees, however, since the implementation of the Bologna process, polytechnic degree holders can now qualify for further academic study by doing additional courses. There are 20 universities and 30 polytechnics in the country.

[saras]

14. Sounds rather like the good American schools I attended while young

Good professional educators, with the support of the public AND the government, make an astounding difference - like the difference between the most and least competent computer programmers, or artists, or financial planners - or any other job that takes deep understanding of both people and some field of abstraction.

[izquierdista]

17. To go off on a tangent....

"Finland has a strong social welfare system; we don’t. It is not a “Socialist” nation, by the way."

There is no such thing as a "socialist" or "capitalist" nation. Those are two modes of thought, not adjectives to describe a nation -- not unless you want to score nations on a percentage basis, which would be only a pedantic exercise. When you look at how some sector of human activity works, what are the ground rules, then you can make the distinction, like 'socialist' health care or 'capitalist' shoe manufacturing and distribution. To think that one model works for all aspects of human activity is foolish and is why failing nations can't provide for their citizens: health care in the United States and food in North Korea. Successful nations dispense with the ideological baggage associated with these modes of thought and only ask "which gets better results?" and then implement it.

[tama]

19. I live in Finland

feel free to ask.