Food stamps for fast food argument?

[ChandlerJr]

The fast food meal of two Big Macs, a cheeseburger, six chicken McNuggets, two medium and two small fries and two medium, and two small sodas: $27.89. The home-cooked meal of chicken, salad, potatoes, and milk: $13.78. A homemade meal of pinto beans and rice is even cheaper at $9.26.



http://www.delish.com/food/recalls-reviews/eating-home-cooked-food-is-cheaper-than-fast-food?ocid=xnetr3-2

[tridim]

1. Moot point. You can't buy fast food with food stamps.

It is literally impossible.

[cbayer]

4. Actually, in some states you now can do just that

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/fast-food-chains-getting-into-the-food-stamp-act/

[tridim]

9. Damn, that's awful news.

I'd love to know who is passing these laws. The article didn't mention that.

[Enrique]

5. that's changing

I was about to make the same point you made, but I looked it up and guess what, fast food chains are lobbying to allow it, and they're winning in some states.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/fast-food-chains-getting-into-the-food-stamp-act/

[grasswire]

17. not so, in some circumstances

If you are over 65 or disabled, at least one state allows the food stamp allowance to be used either as cash or groceries. The debit card can be used to withdraw cash, even.

[virgogal]

2. Good comparative info. Thanks.

[leftstreet]

3. If a homeless person cooks, is it a home-cooked meal? n/t

[JohnnyRingo]

15. I believe in Ohio one needs a permanent address to get benefits.

I get the humor, and Stephen Wright would be quite proud, but it's sad that the homeless are dependent upon shelters, road kill, and dumpsters to survive.

Still, good observation. LOL

[leftstreet]

30. The OP is bullshit. Nothing in the linked article about Food Assistance programs

Makes DU look really stupid

[JohnnyRingo]

45. Wow... you should have told me to duck.

I didn't see it coming.

Not as funny anymore.

[leftstreet]

72. It's not duck, it's chicken!

:P

Yeah, these poverty porn threads make DU look stupid

[Speck Tater]

6. How on earth can you spend $9.26 on beans and rice. Are those gold-plated beans?

Of course I buy both beans and rice in 25-pound bags at a restaurant supply house because I only shop a couple times a year. But I'd really like to see an itemized list for a pot of beans and rice that cost that much.

[tridim]

11. Yep, even if you buy small packages it's not even close.

It's more like $3.00.

[Speck Tater]

18. Maybe they're organic beans from Whole Foods. I paid 52 cents a pound for pintos most recently. nt

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[closeupready]

23. They're using a recipe with bacon, green peppers, etc.

And while that can add up, $9.26 does seem like an awful lot.

[Systematic Chaos]

24. One possibility is that they're adding in the cost of all the spices as well.

Sure, a pound of beans is around $1, and if you go with the more nutritionally complete brown rice a pound may set you back an extra $1-2 more than inferior white rice. Those two ingredients alone won't run you more than $4 or so.

But then you also will probably want to add some veggies, and almost certainly some spices. And if you don't already have the spices in your pantry that's gonna really hit you in the wallet the first time around. Also, those who add a bit of meat to the recipe are going to pay a couple dollars more.

But you're right. I can't see any way the cost would be that high unless you're taking into account first time investment for every ingredient including bottles of spices. :shrug:

[Speck Tater]

46. Also, it didn't specify how many servings.

I live alone and make a big enough pot for four or five meals for me. That works out really cheap on a per-day basis for one. I can see where it would be more with a large family.

[closeupready]

7. Gives busy parents more time to do 'parenting'...?

?

[Mimosa]

8. It's a BAD IDEA.

Even canned white beans, tuna, fresh green onions, a lemon on greens with mayonaisse beats anything in a fast food dump.

[aquart]

26. And perhaps a little dill?

[eyesroll]

10. And how much for the transportation to a decent grocery store?

How much for housing that has a kitchen with more than a microwave and hot plate and where bugs or mice won't destroy your food stores?

How much to buy that bottle of oil (because you can't get 50 cents worth of oil by itself) and store it in a place where roommates or strangers won't take it?

And...when to cook, if you're working two jobs and have to get your kids from daycare and home on the bus and feed them before they melt down?

I have a car and a well equipped kitchen and can do the roast chicken or beans and rice with oils and seasonings I've previously purchased and been able to store.

I'm kind of agnostic on the idea of food stamps for fast food, but what these discussions leave out is how expensive it is to be poor.

[w0nderer]

65. +1 for having a clue

it's expensive in time and money to be poor

[lunasun]

87. + 2 for reality check

[hfojvt]

12. yeah, but you could get 4 McChickens for $4,50

and a two liter of pop for $1.50.

$6 with no time or electricity spent.

Of course with the same $6 you could perhaps get a 10 pound bag of rice.

[Enrique]

20. that's a very good point

the OP skews the numbers by choosing the "high-end" choices from McDonalds, and assuming they buy the drinks there. In the real world, some people would do exactly as you say and it would be a different calculation.

[eridani]

76. And chow down on handfuls of it, right on the spot n/t

[Fumesucker]

13. Now show us how to cook that under a bridge with a piece of old newspaper for a heat source..

I swear the cluelessness of some people about what real poverty is like just flabbergasts me sometimes.

[Motown_Johnny]

14. assuming you have an oven, and electricity/gas, and a home for that matter

[EFerrari]

33. Access to a car and a nearby grocery store.

Even in my old working class SF neighborhood, the buses didn't run directly to Safeway, so if you were a senior with no car, going to the store was about a two hour undertaking plus your fare and even then, you have to be able to carry home your purchases.

[cbayer]

16. There are a couple of other points here.

Just because someone is poor, should the government be able to tell them what kind of food they can or can not buy with their food stamps? Should this apply to all prepared foods (grocery deli)? Should we also restrict other foods that we don't think are good for them?

The lack of decent grocery stores, and particularly decent fresh foods, in impoverished neighborhoods remains an issue.

Poor people, who may be working multiple jobs, have multiple children that have to be cared for/picked up/dropped off, etc. may have difficulty finding the several hours it would take to prepare, cook and clean up after that lovely chicken dinner.

Although you describe a possible McD's scenario, they also have $1 options. You could get 4 chicken sandwiches, 4 cheeseburgers, 4 fries and 4 drinks for $16 without the additional costs of electricity/gas needed to cook and clean up after a meal.

It's a difficult issue, but the mere cost of the different choices is not the only deciding factor.

[tridim]

21. It does apply to grocery prepared meals.

At least it does in KS.

[ejpoeta]

27. the other people in the store will sure think they have the right to decide what you can get.

Buy a store brand item and they will flip with their glares at you and comments that they sure want you to hear. Must be nice to have food stamps. I guess maybe the EBT card helps a bit. Those glares were pretty bad with the actual food stanps and having to count them out and rip them out one by one and hand them to the cashier. Heck, I have had the glares and comment with WIC!! I don't have either any more (though we still qualify for WIC). It has just become a hassle for me. I may go back after awhile. Who knows.

It is tough to shop in general. And i am a stay at home mom!! I see my sister who has three kids and doesn't get home til 6pm every night after going in at 6am every morning and wonder just how she does it. She is exhausted when she gets home. They have never been on assistance as far as I know, and I have heard the comments from her before about food stamps and welfare. It is always different for me though when I remark about having been on it myself and they are talking about me. Oh you are different. No I am not.

Would I want the option of mcdonalds for food stamps? I don't really like the idea, but I can understand it. The fact is that you get a certain amount that has to last you all month. But we don't all have the time and would like take out once in awhile. But whenever I give in I can do the math in my head about what that money I just spent could have bought at a grocery store.

No matter what happens people will judge. They always do. I hate Mcdonalds personally. But I am not in the situation of my sister who doesn't get home until 6 every night and then has to get the kids to do homework and make dinner. Or someone who is working 3 jobs and is always running with no break and never gets anywhere either. It's like we are all on a wheel running nowhere. But I digress.

[cbayer]

35. More good points

:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

47. When I was in your sister's shoes, I spent all day Sunday shopping

and cooking and baking for the whole week because there was no way I could hit the door at 6 and magically produce a good dinner for the family. And I was tired a lot for about a decade. You don't dream of being rich or successful, you dream of sleeping. lol

[Amaril]

102. I did the same

When my kids were little, my husband (now ex) was gone a lot (active duty military off on deployment for months at a time) and I worked full time..........and, for about a year while I was finishing up my degree, I worked full time during the day AND took classes at night. Looking back on those days, I'm amazed I didn't implode - I survived for that year on an average of 4 hours of sleep per night during the week. I will forever be grateful that the help I needed in caring for my kids -- that gave me the opportunity to work and go to school -- was there.

I would cook on Sundays -- mostly "one-dish" meals (casseroles & such) that could be frozen in a foil-covered baking dish, and then stuck in the oven to reheat while some veggies were cooking or I made a salad.

[Divine Discontent]

92. ha!

you reminded me of a time when I was using food stamps under Bush 1, and this idiot borderline functional goof who lived with his middle class parents saw me using food stamps and we both worked at the grocery store (but I didn't have the safety net of living with patents like him), and he blared out loud, "you use FOOOOD STAMPS!?" I said yes, Scotty, some of us try to live on our own and our pay is very meager at a grocery store. And he turned his head like a dog. LOL. thanks for the memory flashback to when they had to pull out the actual food stamp dollars.

[MerryBlooms]

19. There's nothing about this OP that isn't BS. unrec

[Spike89]

22. Impossible, but also unfair

Naturally, people requiring food stamp assistance are far more likely to be homeless, or have a house with intermittent (or permanent) utility turn-offs. They often don't have working stoves, refrigerators, pots, pans or dishes.

Comparisons like this may seem "helpful" and sensible at first glance, but really come down to some mean, heartless, and totally non empathetic core assumptions. To begin with, the assumption is that people needing assistance are too stupid or lazy to take the time to feed themselves (and put a fancy bow tied chicken in a $20 roasting pan). Another asinine assumption is that everyone on food stamps must never vary from a sustenance-only routine and they never have special occasions, birthdays, anniversaries, or just days where they'd like their children to feel "normal".

For chistsakes, why not show how much money they could save by eating dog food? Even though food stamps are NOT used for fast food by law, there are people that buy soda! junk food! and even the rare luxury! and guess what? The food stamp program is NOT one of the top 100 problems with this country and "fixing" it so food stamps are more demeaning and dehumanizing won't save any significant money or stop the insane people from carping about the freeloaders.

[cbayer]

32. Great post

:thumbsup:

[Starry Messenger]

61. +100,000

[Divine Discontent]

93. good post!

[CreekDog]

103. +lots

:applause:

[EFerrari]

25. Chickens are almost $10 all by themselves. That estimate

doesn't even cover the ingredients let alone the energy to cook with.

[former9thward]

34. Maybe you are buying chickens in a gold plated mansion.

Where I buy them they are about 1/3 of $10.00.

[TheWraith]

38. Then you're awfully lucky.

A whole roasting chicken at my local supermarket is usually $9 and change depending on weight.

[ejpoeta]

39. i am sure the price varies depending on where you live. I remember when I could

buy chickens for like $3 or $4. Now if I am lucky they are on sale for that.

[EFerrari]

41. I know. Chickens will never be on sale for 4.00 here again.

TG I already raised my kids. :scared:

[EFerrari]

40. No, Safeway. They're about 8.50.

[former9thward]

43. I traveled for about 2 months this summer to quite a few states.

And I noticed everywhere food (at same chain stores - I shop primary at Safeway) was much more expensive than in Arizona. Very often the same products in the same chain store were double the price as my local Safeway. I really don't know why that is.

[EFerrari]

44. I've been having to stretch and fret to feed us here

for about two years so if you name anything they sell at Safeway, I'm all too aware of what it costs. I don't know why it varies so much, either. And this Safeway is in a low income mostly Latino neighborhood in East San Jose.

[quiller4]

104. Less than $5 at Safeway in my area n/t

[polly7]

28. The article linked says nothing about food stamps.

"Is Home-Cooked Food Cheaper Than Fast Food? Yes." No mention of poverty or food stamps .... just the benefits of home-prepared food vs. fast food - for everyone. Taken in the context in which it was written, it's a pretty good article with some nice recipes, imo.

[Retrograde]

57. Why are you trying to bring reason into the discussion?

It's received wisdom on DU that if a food solution doesn't work for 100% of the population 100% of the time it's useless and should not even be tried in any cases :sarcasm:

There are - and will most likely always be - people who can not prepare cheap, healthy meals for themselves for a variety of reasons. There is, however, a growing number of people, especially in the US, who do not know how to use the resources they do have, like a grocery store, stove and freezer, to get more out of their food dollars. Yes, there's a tradeoff between saving money and time. Yes, preparing food from basics takes more planning and preparation. But if a few people learn something about meal planning and shopping how is the article evil?

Critics of articles like this often point out the long preparation time cheap foods take. What they don't point out is that once prepared they can be refrigerated for several days, or frozen in meal-sized portions for future use. We used to rely a lot on chili: soak the beans the previous day, make up a bit pot on the weekend (exact contents varied as to what was on sale), then reheat during the week when we'd get home from work. If you want to have dinner out every night that's fine with me: I choose to allocate my resources differently.

[FloridaJudy]

75. And just how tasty

Those frozen bean/lentil/barley/pasta meals are going to seem by the end of the week! :sarcasm: I've been there and done that, and believe me, after the fourth of fifth day of them those frozen meals do not look appetizing. That's the point where a PBJ or a cheap tuna sandwich on stale bread starts to look like a gourmet treat.

There was an experiment several years back where the families of politicians tried to live on the amount of groceries that food stamps would buy you for a month. Most were shocked at how limited the choices were, and gave it up gladly at the end of the month. I suggest any DU'er who thinks those undeserving poor people are living high on the hog try it.

[WinkyDink]

29. I'm all for letting people buy and eat what they want. Even the poor.

[demmiblue]

31. People are so naive when it comes to the plight of the poor. Unrec. n/t

[TheWraith]

36. Not this bullshit AGAIN.

With all due respect, I would suggest that anyone who wants to obsess over controlling whether poor families spend $10 on a chicken from the store or a bunch of chicken sandwiches from McDonalds can and should consider doing something more appropriate, like fucking themselves.

You're not there managing their finances, nor are you fully informed about what their situation may be including whether the parent or parents have the time or the resources to cook. If someone's working a 16 hour day on two shitty jobs, they're sure as hell not going to have an hour and a half in the evening to roast a chicken for the kids.

Nor for that matter do you have any idea whether they spend 29 days a month eating rice and beans, and maybe once want to indulge and feel a small sliver of happiness having a special treat, or celebrating something good happening in their lives for once.

[leftstreet]

37. +1

:thumbsup:

[MerryBlooms]

42. Demonizing the poor is much more important than facts. *sigh

[xmas74]

70. This is the same place

where I mentioned once buying my kid's Easter candy with food stamps and a few posters went nuts. I was informed that I had no business buying that $1.00 chocolate bunny and the cheap $1.00 bag of jelly beans.

I'm not doing all that well right now but thank goodness I don't have to worry about the food stamp police anymore, since I no longer qualify.

[lunasun]

88. rice and beans should have been in those baskets!!!haven't you heard???

Is the new house of reps really getting well off Dems to think entitlements are the budget busters????

I hope those kids don't have shoes or toys or books you could have used to buy rice and beans !!! You better be wearing rags too

I don't even like fast food or candy but I am not clueless to the plight of others,their background or their right to be responsible for their own choices.
If the fast food as been deemed as allowable by the state what is the issue?
The decision was most likely not willy nilly and done after research and consideration of how best to use the funds to help feed people in need not just bitter non-experts who know what they would do if they were poor.


The real income level to qualify for food stamps is lower than most people make up in their bitter minds.
I knew someone who got downgraded at work and just thought I must be making so little now I will get food stamps. There would have to be 3 other people in her family to qualify.
She couldn't understand why she wasn't getting them - why? becuz her idea of poor really wasnt poor!!

[xmas74]

94. I had someone at the store behind me in line

actually make a comment about the candy. Personally, I'd never make any kind of comments about what others buy but some think that's just fine.

I guess that it's ok for their kids to have an Easter basket but it wasn't ok for my kid to have a couple of small items. Somehow it was MY fault for allowing the company to lay me off, just so I could fight for unemployment and claim food stamps.

And I know plenty of others who have made too much money for assistance, even though they didn't make enough to actually pay bills. It's a ridiculously low amount of money you need to make in order to qualify. I was on unemployment and I didn't qualify for the maximum amount for my household, since I was still receiving some sort of money. The only thing that really saved us was that I could buy seeds and plants with the food stamps for the garden. Without that garden we would have been in real trouble. The problem is that many don't have that option, whether it's due to space or poor soil or restrictions from a landlord.

[H2O Man]

48. hugh

[distantearlywarning]

49. A roast chicken? Come on.

Both my husband and I are excellent cooks. We are foodies and we cook dinner at home almost every night of the week, and we often make pretty elaborate dinners too. I even grow my own herb garden during the summer, just to use in our meals. Furthermore, I know how to roast poultry and have made a chicken on many occasions. Given my own observations of other people of my age level and younger, I think all of this makes us pretty unusual in terms of our commitment to eating food that didn't come from a box or fast food restaurant.

And we don't have any kids, and I have a pretty flexible schedule in terms of being able to prep cooking, go to the grocery store, etc.

And we would NEVER make a roasted chicken for dinner any weeknight. Never. That's completely impractical on multiple levels. It takes 1/2 hour of prep at a minimum to make that dish in your picture, and 2 1/2 hours in the oven to roast it. Not to mention the clean-up. I cannot imagine any family in America where every adult in the household works full-time making a roasted fucking chicken with vegetables for dinner on a weeknight. Maybe if you have a stay-at-home wife like it's 1950 or something. :eyes:

And if I can't imagine us doing roasting a fucking chicken as a normal weeknight dinner, and we have everything going for us in terms of food (money, time, energy, motivation, and skill), now just imagine a single mom with limited cooking skills, working 12 hours a day at an exhausting minimum wage job, bringing her hungry, tired kids home from day-care on the bus, and now it's 7 pm before she gets home and she's supposed to prep and cook a roasted chicken? Fuck that. McDonald's it is, guys. (And by the way, I fucking hate McDonald's and I would have to be pretty damn desperate to eat there, and I would eat McDonald's before I would roast a chicken if I were in that mother's shoes. Just saying.)

And as a foodie, I'm not even going to touch the "pinto beans and rice" thing, except to say you forgot to mention the other possible option of "lentil soup for a month" or "plain bread and water". God forbid anyone ever suggest meals for a poor person that might involve something that actually tastes good and provides an appealing alternative to McDonalds. Better that they suffer for their sin of being poor by having to eat mashed up cardboard in a pot, right?

Seriously, people of DU really need to think about this kind of crap before they post it.

[lunasun]

90. Seriously, people of DU really need to think about this kind of crap before they post it.

Well may be intentional Poster is from AZ and joined in 08/11
Just stirring up the 'teapot' a little for freeper snarks?? who knows

[JVS]

50. I have a coupon for 2 Thickburgers for $5, it sure beats pinto beans and rice.

[MrMickeysMom]

51. Here are the facts in my neck of the woods...

There are 113,000 people who otherwise would qualify for food stamps. Many are too "proud" to do so, yet, show up at food banks because they can get some basic food to eat (and I'm trying to make it healthy)

They also will not sign a 20-page, complex form to sign up for food stamps... I do not know the reason behind this really.

These people need education and food.

That is all.

[blueamy66]

52. bought a chicken, cooked, for $5 tonite

That will feed me and my guy for 2 nights.....

I have no problem with people on foodstamps.....well, one problem...quit having kids if you cannot afford to feed them. Giving birth is not a right, it is a conscience decision.

My 2 nieces each have 3 kids each. They both work their asses off and I help them a bit. They are not on public assistance, thanks to family, thank God.

Don't know the answer, but popping out kids left and right isn't it.....

[MrMickeysMom]

53. True....

I think the "education" part goes a long way here... Note: "it's a conscience decision".

[w8liftinglady]

54. true.

States with the highest teen pregnancy rate also have "Abstinence - only" education. I know. I live in one.

[blueamy66]

55. what is your point?

so I used the wrong word...

[MrMickeysMom]

68. What?

What wrong word did you think you used?

I was emphasizing what you said, noting the relevance to "education"

[Motown_Johnny]

62. so you have a car, and a house, and a stove, and electricity/gas, and pots and pans

and plates and silverware and most likely a refrigerator for the leftovers that will be eaten tomorrow




Can we assume these are/were not all free and factor that into your five dollar meal?


Some people just don't have those things.

[blueamy66]

67. Oh my god....

unbelievable....

Yes, I work 40+ hours a week.....my guy works over 50....almost 65 hours...his brother is homeless in Vegas and we're using our savings acct $ to get to Vegas, bail him out of jail, and bring him to AZ to clean him up, feed him and get him into rehab.

We pay over $800 a month in child support for one kid.

My car is a 2004 Cavalier that I paid $3k for. My fridge is used.

Shut up if you don't know of what you speak.

Jesus Christ...is this a democratic website or a republican one?...It's bad enough that conservatives are judgmental assholes, but do liberals have to be as well?

on edit: I just saw that you're from Detroit....now I understand

[CreekDog]

73. when you post, it's a little more Republican

because you rant against having to pay child support.

you rant against children of illegal immigrants, here through no fault of their own, getting an education --which they will use to help pay for your retirement Medicare and Social Security, something they may never get themselves.

you complain about food stamps.

it seems as though when you rant about this being a Republican rather than a Democratic site, you aren't looking at politics, but at yourself and what you can get out of all of this and when you don't get what you want, you complain that we're Republican.

or were you asking a rhetorical question? :eyes:

[blueamy66]

77. How did I complain about food stamps? Re-read my post.

And I complain about child support because the amount is wrong. We love the boy.....

And I don't think that children of illegal aliens should get scholarship money. Sorry.

Do you search for my posts? Jeeeezzzz...

on edit: Can you please send me some $ to help bail out my guy's brother and pay for his airplane flight back here? Or maybe $5 to buy a chicken to feed him?

[Motown_Johnny]

84. all I am saying is that some are less fortunate than you

many don't have the ability to cook and store food or possibly even to travel to a market


I wasn't judging you, I was questioning your assumptions

[CreekDog]

74. and a household 6-figure income

which they've posted about.

was that post out of gratitude? i'll give you one guess!

:rofl:

[blueamy66]

79. who is "they"?

nt

[CreekDog]

81. pretend you don't know

:rofl:

[blueamy66]

82. still waiting to know who they is

as I am the only one in my household that posts on this board

[CreekDog]

80. who is going to pay for your Medicare and Social Security if people don't have kids?

i also wonder how many children are getting food stamps because a parent isn't paying court-ordered child support? did that happen to your partner's child when they weren't paying?

and we all feel sorry for you because you cannot post without mentioning that $800/month to your partner's son is too expensive (this time in a post about children you don't think should have even been born).

meanwhile you live in a household making over 100k.

and the amazing thing --it's *you* that is angry at everyone else. you. :shrug:

[blueamy66]

83. ignore time

have fun in your lovely city....blech

[CreekDog]

91. i don't think you're ignoring me because of any of that, but because answering will...

make you look hypocritical.

at least answering honestly.

but you've posted on these issues with such frequency that there's no way you can answer any other way without others noticing.

so go ahead and ignore. answering obviously presents its own problems for you. :hi:

[tabasco]

95. Weak counterargument.

Unable to support = don't have children.

[CreekDog]

99. Weak liberal = you

:hi:

[tabasco]

101. I didn't know it was a pillar of liberalism

to encourage people to have children they are unable to support.

Waddayano. I learn something new every day. :think:

[Hippo_Tron]

85. "Stop having kids" is the Republican way of looking at the problem

The correct way of looking at the problem is asking what can society do to reduce the aggregate number of kids that are a financial burden on the taxpayers. And the obvious answer to that question is that we need to make birth control, sex education, and *gasp* abortion a lot more accessible than it is now. Yes there will always be SOME people who pop out more kids than they can't afford. But if the country would adopt sensible policies, the number of people that do this would be small enough that the aggregate burden on society would be small.

Lecturing people on personal responsibility doesn't accomplish jack shit. Nor does trying to rid the world of free loaders. Republicans do it because it re-enforces their and their supporters' undeserved sense of superiority that they get from living under the delusion that they earned everything that they have.

[CreekDog]

89. I agree, but it would also be good to see these kids as an opportunity rather than a burden

as our population ages into an elderly demographic bubble, well-educated and well-treated young people can make for a lot of hard working taxpayers who can pay the taxes that keep Social Security and Medicare going.

on the other hand, if everyone who preaches "personal responsibility" and posts message after message about how they see children as a burden may find themselves without Social Security and Medicare in their old age if those kids follow the example of the pious lecturers calling them a burden.

[Hippo_Tron]

96. If that becomes a serious concern, we can always allow more immigration

With 9% unemployment, it's hard to imagine how all of those kids are going to be taxpayers who keep Social Security and Medicare going. High unemployment may be around for a while and it may not, we really don't know. But we can always increase the population of the US by allowing more immigrants in, if need be.

My belief is that the world would be better off if we as a species would reproduce less. But in order to accomplish that, I don't believe that we need to control peoples' reproductive habits. Nor do I think we need to be negligent in our moral obligation as a society to take care of everyone, in order to deter people from having kids (which doesn't work anyway). All we need to do is get everyone who doesn't want to have kids to use birth control and use it properly.

[Scout]

56. yes, i can roast that chicken on my hot plate! n/t

[KamaAina]

58. Get next to a copy of Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" at once

She spent enough time among poor women who are living right on the edge that she knows what she's talking about. I'm going to take a flying guess that you have not.

Since you don't appear to be poor, there's no need for you to go anywhere as proletarian as a library :sarcasm: ; just head down to your local Barnes and Noble, or click here:

http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0805088385/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318537116&sr=1-1

It's cheaper than a fast food meal and far more fulfilling. :P

[Taverner]

59. Yeah, people on food stamps just end up using them on Winstons and Big Macs

:eyes:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

60. Interesting post and run. nt

[etherealtruth]

63. I beg to differ ....

.... there's nothing interesting about this post. Just an other attempt to vilify those less fortunate ... kinda boring, actually.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

64. I did use the wrong choice of word. I shoul've just said ''obvious''. nt

[BiggJawn]

66. Eat them Beans and Rice, 3 times a day, 7 days a week...

Yum, YUM!

What's with all the "poor people should learn to cook" threads tonight? Rachel Rae have a special on or something?

[CreekDog]

86. no cable

what do you think this is?

[foreigncorrespondent]

69. Where I live in Australia...

...you can't even get a chicken for under $10.00 to roast it. On top of that potatoes are costing around $4.00 a kilo now. And to make a salad at home, just a standard green salad will some extras in it doesn't cost below $20.00 to make. Everyone in my house loves salad, but now we can only have it once every couple of weeks.

Our regular weekly food shopping bill is $400, what we get with that is the food staples, meat, some fresh veg, frozen veg, milk, bathroom items, cleaning products and cat food and litter.

As I pointed out yesterday in another thread, even though we don't, for us it would be cheaper to eat take away regularly, than to do our regular grocery shop. Just we prefer to keep healthy by eating healthy.

[Whisp]

71. unrec.

lets worry about what the rich are eating... us.

disgusted!

[Zoeisright]

78. Plus a car to get to a decent grocery store, plus a working kitchen to make

that food, plus the knowledge to know how to cook it, plus no crushing disability or mental illness so you actually have the energy to do all of those things.

God, that posting is absolutely pathetic, judgmental, unChristian, shortsighted, and STUPID.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frustrated_lefty]

100. Unrec for divorce from reality.