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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 02:50 PM
Original message
Barack Obama: The worst president in U.S. history regarding medical marijuana
Obama: From First to Worst on Medical Marijuana
by Rob Kampia
Executive director, Marijuana Policy Project
October 9, 2011


During his run for the presidency, Barack Obama instilled hope in medical marijuana supporters by pledging to respect state laws on the matter. And for the first two years of his term, he was generally faithful to his promise. Yet suddenly, and with no logical explanation, over the past eight months he has become arguably the worst president in U.S. history regarding medical marijuana.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-kampia/obama-from-first-to-worst_b_1001781.html


-------------------------------------------



Obama Administration Shatters Campaign Promise, Escalates Crackdown on Medical Marijuana
By E.D. Kain, Contributor
October 7, 2011


Despite promises to the contrary on the campaign trail, the Obama administration has announced an escalation in its war on legal medical marijuana dispensaries in California and elsewhere.

Federal prosecutors have sent letters to landlords and owners of dispensaries across California warning them to halt sales of marijuana within 45 days or face property seizures and other legal backlash, though some raids have already commenced.

Driving Marijuana Back into the Black Market

This is much worse than reneging on a campaign pledge or being bad politics at a time when 80 percent of the public supports medical marijuana, Neill Franklin, the executive director of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, said in a statement. This crackdown is going to endanger public safety. The fact is, people in California and the other states with medical marijuana laws are going to use their doctor-recommended marijuana whether the Department of Justice likes it or not.

The question, Franklin points out, is whether patients will purchase their marijuana legally and safely at a dispensary or whether they will turn to an inevitably dangerous and violent black market. Will we regulate and tax marijuana sales or spend billions fighting a never-ending war on drugs?

Read the full article at:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/10/07/obama-administration-shatters-campaign-promise-escalates-crackdown-on-medical-marijuana/
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Change you can believe in ... n/t
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ah, E.D. Kain, the "liberal" Tucker Carlson fan.
He should give it up already.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're completely wrong.
As you are 100% of the time.

Obama supports legal MMJ. Period.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. "Obama supports legal MMJ"
Sure he does. The facts speak for themselves.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yes, it is a fact that he supports MMJ.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Proclaiming something does not make it so..
and actions speak louder than words..
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The Obama administration officially supports legal MMJ. Period.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. prove it..
RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!1
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. poor gullible thing
hahahahahahaha the moon is made of green cheese too
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I'm not gullible. It is a fact.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. repeating something over and over does not make it a fact. period.
ACTIONS make it a fact and so far this administration's actions are counterproductive to supporting MMJ. Period.

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. It is a fact even if I didn't post it once.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. Perhaps you're not gullible
but you sure as hell are in denial. Either that or you're one of those who believes that just because Obama has a "D" after his name, he can do no wrong..

Btw, I'll take the word of ASA over yours..

"Aggressive tactics like these are a completely inappropriate use of prosecutorial discretion by the Obama Administration," said Joe Elford, Chief Counsel with Americans for Safe Access (ASA), the country's largest medical marijuana advocacy group. "President Obama must answer for his contradictory policy on medical marijuana." On the campaign trial and in the White House, President Obama pledged that he was "not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws."
----
This attack is the latest in a long line of federal intimidation tactics employed over the past few months by such agencies as Housing and Urban Development (HUD), the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Department of Justice (DOJ). President Obama's DOJ has conducted well over 150 federal raids in at least 7 states since taking office and his U.S. Attorneys sent letters earlier this year threatening local and state officials in 10 states with criminal prosecution if they adopted proposed medical marijuana laws.

By sending threatening letters to landlords, President Obama is taking a cue from his predecessor George W. Bush, whose Justice Department sent similar letters to more than 300 property owners throughout California in 2007.



http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=6846
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
50. Anybody...
Buying what this poser is selling has no room to call ANYONE "gullible."

Funny stuff :rofl:
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. what am I posing as?
no call for name senseless calling . what am I "selling" BTW, my disbelief in the posters gullibility
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. Referring to
The OP, of course.

....and calling someone "gullible" isn't considered senseless name-calling? :rofl:
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. Then why do they continually hassle and threaten LEGAL MMJ dispensaries?
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:35 PM by ixion
hhhmmmm? And don't try and use the 'state' excuse. That is simply not true. These raids are executed by federal agencies.

The facts do not support your premise.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. ...right.
Except, "legal" MMJ doesn't exist, because of federal law. ....right? Oh, well, nothing we can do except to continue to fill prison cells with cancer grannies, huh? The old 'hands are tied' bit.

:eyes:

bullshit. In this time of supposed 'austerity', this administration has shown NO qualms about CHOOSING to piss away billions of taxpayer dollars by making harassing pot smokers a MAJOR PRIORITY.

Enough.
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NICO9000 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
108. Are you insane?
So why do he and Holder want to suddenly shut all the dispensaries down?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #108
132. Because that's what "support" MEANS, silly!
:eyes:
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SomethingFishy Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
136. How can you possibly say that?
How can you sit there and be so disingenuous? There is ample evidence that this administration has "clamped down" on Medical Marijuana after saying they wouldn't. They have been raiding clinics and grow houses and now they are going to try to tax them into oblivion.

Your position is not supported by the facts, and that is being really really kind.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
52. You have not cited a single, independently verifiable fact in support of your argument...
... But the other side has the facts of what the Administration has chosen to focus its enforcement efforts on. Cite facts, or STFU.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. U.S. eases stance on medical marijuana
By Carrie Johnson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 20, 2009

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. directed federal prosecutors Monday to back away from pursuing cases against medical marijuana patients, signaling a broad policy shift that drug reform advocates interpret as the first step toward legalization of the drug.

snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101903638.html
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:05 PM
Original message
Your article is from 2009. Here is a new one from 10/8/2011 detailing Obama's pot crack down.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:07 PM by Dr Fate
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
69. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Except the parts where the DOJ and those other Executive branch agencies crack down on MMJ.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:17 PM by Dr Fate
Also, no MMJ is "legal" under FED law, so why do you keep making that distinction?

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. "legal MMJ" refers to states that have legalized MMJ.
As described in their official statement on the issue.

I also use it to differentiate legal and illegal MMJ dispensaries in legal states. There were several illegal MMJ dispensaries in my former state that were shut down because they broke state law.

The administration does NOT support dispensaries that break state law, nor should they.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #80
86. I see. So the IRS, ATF and DEA are just helping San Francisco regulate, whether they want it or not.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:41 PM by Dr Fate
Obama is just helping communities to regulate these people, like when he regulates Wall Street or BP- by shutting them down permanately.

And the Controlled Substance Act can and will be enforced above and against any state law.

Now I can see what is so liberal and progressive about all this.

Obama supports MMJ by sending the Feds into San Francisco to save them from all the pot.

Why didn't you just put it all this way to begin with?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Obama & DOJ say that ALL co-ops will be shut down even ifthey comply with state law ( link included)
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 05:22 PM by Dr Fate
http://safeaccessnow.org/blog/

says in the article that all co ops can be targeted, even if they obey state law.

Who has it wrong?
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Lizzie Poppet Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #80
109. Like Oregon?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/130830348.html

Medical marijuana is legal in Oregon, and the growers raided had licenses. That didn't stop their operations from being shut down and their (non-pot-related) property stolen by "jackbooted thugs" from the Federal Marshal's office.

You were saying...?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Dupe
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:06 PM by Dr Fate
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. You must be joking..
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. Got a better link to the addendum?
The Department of Justice issued a new memo (available here)...

http://proxychi.baremetal.com/www.drugsense.org/temp/guidance_regarding_medical_mariju.pdf

Sorry
The file you requested has been moved, no longer exists or never existed.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. Check it out:.
"Persons who are in the business of cultivating, selling or distributing marijuana, and those who knowingly facilitate such activities, are in violation of the Controlled Substances Act, regardless of state law. Consistent with resource constraints and the discretion you may exercise in your district, such persons are subject to federal enforcement action, including potential prosecution. State laws or local ordinances are not a defense to civil or criminal enforcement of federal law with respect to such conduct, including enforcement of the CSA."

http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/documents/resources/guidance_regarding_medical_marijuana.pdf

I don't see how you can possibly interpret that as support for the right to access MM..
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. The first sentence is a true statement, that in no way nullifies their official position.
Everyone knows Cannabis remains federally illegal.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. You want to see their real position?
United States Attorney Laura Duffy, one of the four who announced this new crackdown in California..

"The California marijuana industry is not about providing medicine to the sick. It's a pervasive for-profit industry that violates federal law. In addition to damaging our environment, this industry is creating significant negative consequences, in California and throughout the nation. As the number one marijuana producing state in the country, California is exporting not just marijuana but all the serious repercussions that come with it, including significant public safety issues and perhaps irreparable harm to our youth."

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2011/10/7/18210/7102?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TalkleftThePoliticsOfCrime+%28TalkLeft%3A+The+Politics+of+Crime%29

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Sounds like progressive/liberal Nixon/Regan era Drug War rationale.
I don't see why everyone is so upset.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #91
94. Yep...that's what it is..
some things never change. of course, Obama seems to excel in channeling past Republican presidents..
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. THis article says the DOJ will target co opts even if they comply with state law...
http://safeaccessnow.org/blog/

started a thread on it in GD, let me know your take if you like...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Absolutely.
Except for that "supports" part. That would be "opposes".

Don't listen to what he says. Watch what he does.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. By having the IRS, ATF and federal police agencies crack down on medicinal pot.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:22 PM by Dr Fate
he certainly is supporting Medical pot.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. The Obama Administration officially supports legal MMJ.
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Officially, yes.
The government agencies accountable to him say otherwise. So which is it, did he lie about the policy or does he totally lack leadership?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. The OP and the GOP tricked Obama by having federal police order MMJ shut downs.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:29 PM by Dr Fate
Nt
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:30 PM
Original message
Some dispensaries have shut down for breaking state law.
That doesn't change the fact that the Obama Administration supports legal MMJ.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. No, the raids are carried out by FEDERAL agencies, not state
try again.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
38. So why are FEDS involved in enforcing state law? (link included)
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:34 PM by Dr Fate
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/08/EDF41LESEK.DTL

Obama and the Feds have a popular, centrist position on this, why are you trying to paint them as pro pot liberals here?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Because the Obama Administration IS pro legal MMJ.
It is their official position.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. " pro" as in having the FEDS bust them. Gotcha.
Nt
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
73. tridim - I'll meet you halfway - it's true - the Attn Gen. in CA is going after for-profit centers
and large growers in California at this time. Their law states that cannabis may be grown by people or groups for other people. It does not clarify

So, I agree that the representation that this is an attack on ALL medical marijuana is wrong - and I apologize for my misunderstanding of this initially.

However, the fact remains that the Attn. Gen's office in CA said that NO dispensary should consider itself "safe" from such actions.

And the truth, also, is that the Dept. of Health and Human Services just blocked a study to look at the possible benefits of mmj for veterans. (As of Oct. 4th)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/04/dept-of-health-and-human-services-blocks-fda-approved-marijuana-research-for-veterans/

But, then, there's this:

The Department of Justice filed on legal brief on Monday that indicated the federal government would not prosecute state employees for implementing state medical marijuana programs, according to the Marijuana Policy Project. (Aug. 4th)

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/04/justice-department-state-employees-can-implement-medical-marijuana-programs/

And before this moment, there was this (July 4th) - The DEA said there was no medical benefit from cannabis.

http://www.businessinsider.com/because-we-say-so-2011-7

Which was followed by this:

Just days after the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) insisted that there is no medical value to marijuana, the White House appeared to contradict the position, saying in a report that there may actually be some medical value to individual components of the cannabis plant after all.

The statement was just a small part of the Office on National Drug Control Policys yearly update on the progress of the drug war and its goals moving forward. Overall, the document only serves to affirm the federal prohibition of marijuana and what it calls medical marijuana, which it still views as illegitimate.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/11/white-house-admits-marijuana-has-some-medical-value/

So, the support for medical marijuana is tepid, at best, and Obama does not expend ANY political capital on moving this issue forward.

Eric Holder could call for the DEA to hold rescheduling hearings tomorrow and bring in a LARGE panel of medical authorities and researchers who could rebutt EVERY claim the DEA makes - the most glaring claim of no medical benefit is obviously a lie when three other nations are already prescribing whole-plant cannabis, Sativex, for MS via their state health programs from a pharmaceutical provider.

This would be a GREAT teaching moment for the nation - an opportunity to undo propaganda on both sides - let it be put into the record what is known and not known at this time. With 81% of the population in this nation in favor of medical cannabis - this is a win for the President - a way to say... let us address this issue rationally. Let us look at evidence and make evidence-based decisions -

INSTEAD of letting any and everyone else frame this debate.

how could this not be a winner for the Obama campaign? People could note that one Texan has been holding the nation hostage on this issue by refusing to let a bill leave the house - how is this democracy in action - why does this guy hate America? (and he's in the Austin district, so what better way to fire up people there to vote than to show them what their representative is doing "in their name?" And what about that bill to make discussion of cannabis research or production, etc... planning anything to do with cannabis, talking about the same for whatever reason... a crime? (That same guy in Austin.)

So, here's the deal. I will agree with you that Holder stated, in 2009, that the Obama Administration was not going to interfere with medical marijuana implementation in states. However, I will disagree that he is "pro" medical marijuana because the things he could do to move this issue forward are not things he has done. He's not required to expend much of his time or energy on the issue - he can merely task his DoJ to look into the issue of rescheduling in light of all the information that has become available since the last hearing on this issue.

He needs to come down on the side of science on this issue. It's not coming down on the side of stoners - it's coming down on the side of reason, of the right to individual freedom, of the right to do research, of the right to put medical issues within the medical community, not the law enforcement one.

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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. You're missing the nuance here...
is that on purpose?

While they may CLAIM to support it, their actions say otherwise.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. By having the IRS, ATF and federal police agencies be nice to them.
Nice as in taking their property, putting them in jail, shutting down their business, etc.

You know, liberal stuff.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. The Obama administration officially supports legal MMJ
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Which is why so many agencies under the executive branch are cracking down on MMJ.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:32 PM by Dr Fate
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
56. You are correct
just personally and unofficially he is trying to destroy it
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. That's quite an accusation.
Got a link?
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. You have stated in this OP that he supports MMJ
still waiting for you to provide links to back yourself up as someone above asked of you

and yes I will provide links once you do
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
63. facts and links are called for
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
87. still waiting for facts and links
otherwise it is just your opinion and that
is only in your mind

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Lizzie Poppet Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
107. ...in Star Trek "goatee universe."
But clearly not in this one...
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. Unrec...
keep trying.

Sid
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Logical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
83. LOL, what a shock!
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
130. Rec fo the moronic
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Recommend
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. I disapprove of his actions regarding MMJ, but that's a bullshit comparison.
State-approved MMJ is a relatively recent phenomenon, so you can't really compare Obama to Ford, for example, since it's something Ford never had to deal with.

I guess he's the worst president ever with regards to state-approved same-sex marriage too? :shrug:
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. You can compare him to Bush
and with this crackdown Obama is obviously worse on this issue than his predecessor..that in itself should be a concern..
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Agreed n/t
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. "he's the worst president ever with regards to state-approved same-sex marriage too?" No he isn't.

So why do you think President Obama is living up to his campaign pledge on medical pot and remains progressive on this issue?

I'm listening.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. That question was asked using the "reasoning" of the chart in the OP
You can't compare Obama to Ford on MMJ or SSM, because they were not issues Ford had to deal with. There's nothing to compare. My point was to provide another relatively recent phenomenon that wasn't an issue for most of the referenced past presidents.

I hope that made sense :)
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. So is Obama the worst President on this issue since MMJ became an issue or not?

Formulated in that manner I don't think this can be disputed.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Formulated in that manner, we are in complete agreement :) n/t
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. That's a good point, but...
doesn't that just speak to the fact that Obama has a unique opportunity to support MMJ that he's wasting? And given such an opportunity, doesn't not taking that opportunity illustrate a huge difference between Obama's rhetoric and his policy on this issue?
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. I agree that it's a wasted opportunity
But since most of the items in that chart were irrelevant to most of those presidents (since MMJ dispensaries didn't even exist), adding those president's to the chart is pointless, unless the point is to show as many un-checked boxes as possible. It's a false comparison.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. lookie, .... more bogus "facts" to let us all know obama is the WORST, evah. nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. As your point by point refutation of those "facts" demonstrate.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:24 PM by Dr Fate
May I cut and paste your counter- arguments for all of my pro pot war posts? Thanks in advance.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. sure... but then seeing that i am addressing the consistency of the poster
and not the issue of what was posted, i hardly think it worth your while.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. I agree with all of your facts and counter arguments.
Much more informative than merely attacking an OP who's previous posts I have never really noted.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
92. now you have an heads up...
wink
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. You want cut/paste advice?
I'd say the OP is you go-to guy (or gal). :shrug:

Seems he copies/pastes his way through an "argument" just fine.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. As your point by point refutation and list of counter facts demonstrates. Nt
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:36 PM by Dr Fate
Nt
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. Brilliant.
You do copy/paste responses too!

To think I doubted your skills....
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. I'm just glad you are on topic, posting all those facts and counter examples to prove the OP wrong.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 03:52 PM by Dr Fate
I don't care if you wrote them yourself or copied them - it's a damn good argument you make either way.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Fact:
The OP is yanking your chain.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. DAMN, the pot heads fooled me again with all their lies. Thanks for listing all those counter facts.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:02 PM by Dr Fate
Nt
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
76. I'm sure that made perfect sense in your sector of the universe.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Not as much sense as all of yor arguments refuting the OP.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:23 PM by Dr Fate
Go back and look at all of them, they are like jewels of knowledge.

I encourage all DUers to read your posts in this thread if they want to learn the real facts.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. The OP
Is a regurgitation machine. You, on the other hand, just like to fan the flames...in an awkward sort of way.



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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #81
84. even more helpful facts! Thanks!
Nt
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
117. I have never seen an attack on a republican during my time on DU. Not one.
I am beyond wondering at this point. Some things are as predictable as a clock.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. yup. nt
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. r2z
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Capitalocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. My rec brings it to 0.
Kick.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
48. THis IRS crackdown is crazed
Most people do want MJ to be legal. A smaller core do not. MMJ is a compromise. Those who really want pot can get it. (And some people do not really need mj for pain, etc. They just want to get high. Which is fine. They just have to jump through hoops). The minority who hate it can maintain the illusion that it is illegal.

But why, oh why, is the federal government cracking down on mmj providers? If there really was a trafficking situation, with a mmj provider selling to non-patients, the feds can come down like a ton of bricks and every legit mmj provider will applaud. But why kick the shit out of these people who are only trying to do the right thing and not get busted?

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. IRS? AS in the IRS under the Executive Branch where Obama controls as executive?
That IRS?
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #48
85. Big Pharma
the government is allowing some farming of MJ so
Big Pharma can produce a MJ pill and make big money
and cut out the home grower
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #85
100. DOJ says they will target ALL co ops, even if they comply w/ state law!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2092645

Which is contrary to what many are saying here....

What is your take?
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #100
111. While surfing DU I have read
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 07:42 PM by Angry Dragon
that the federal government has a patent on one of the chemicals in marijuana (might not be stating that correctly) that marijuana has medical benefits (within the last few days)

and that (within the last month I believe) that the federal government has allowed Big Pharma to have some test acres of marijuana where they can do testing

It seems to me that the government is opening the door for pharma and closing it for the individual


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=218&topic_id=3400

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=2084213
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #100
123. another thing for you
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
49. Still waiting on that new record BBI...you letting your fans down man
keep trollin'!!!
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
55. LEGALIZE IT, REGULATE IT, TAX IT. FUCKING ENOUGH ALREADY.
NOW.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
67. You are unbelievable! n/t
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. I agree. every one of the "facts" the OP listed has been soundly refuted.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 04:12 PM by Dr Fate
I'm just waiting for someone to actually LIST those refutations - then we can end this silly argument.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
75. Consider the source though. n/t
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
78. Should have no problem refuting the so called facts then.
Nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
93. Obama and DOJ: ALL Dispensaries to be shut down, even if they comply with state law.
http://safeaccessnow.org/blog/

So it looks like even the " legal MMJ" is going to be targeted after all, unless someone is fibbing.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
95. It's a really good excuse for Obama to go through the DEA and DOJ and remove Bushites.
But that, like removing marijuana from Schedule I, probably requires the cooperation of people that won't play nice.
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musiclawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. CA could be in play
I said this in a thread a few days ago and was ridiculed. My premise is that Obama better get this clear and under control that he will not harm MM patients This is heart attack serious. If he does not CA WILL be in play
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Lizzie Poppet Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #97
113. Oregon, too.
We're pretty darn blue up here, but we also don't take at all well to the feds interfering in what should be our business and our business alone. Like, for instance, our assisted suicide law that John Ashcroft tried to interfere with...

So far, the only raids have occurred in small-town Southern Oregon (which the more populous and liberal Willamette Valley tends to forget even exists), but if a more high-profile raid happens, all bets are off. This is a staggeringly inept political move from the administration.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
96. California Medical Marijuana Program
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 05:39 PM by RainDog
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/mmp/Pages/Medical%20Marijuana%20Program.aspx

Medical Marijuana Program

The Medical Marijuana Program (MMP) was established to provide a voluntary medical marijuana identification card issuance and registry program for qualified patients and their caregivers. The web-based registry system allows law enforcement and the public to verify the validity of qualified patient or caregiver's card as authorization to possess, grow, transport and/or use Medical Marijuana in California. To facilitate the verification of authorized cardholders, the verification database is available on the internet at www.calmmp.ca.gov.

In 2003, Senate Bill (SB) 420 (Chapter 875, Statutes of 2003) was passed as an extension and clarification of Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996. The Medical Marijuana Program, within CDPH, is administered through a patient's county of residence. Upon obtaining a recommendation from their physician for use of medicinal marijuana, patients and their primary caregivers may apply for and be issued, a Medical Marijuana Identification Card. Senate Bill 420 also required that the MMP be fully supported through the card application processing fees. Both the state and the counties have authority to cover their costs for the program through these application fees.]/i]

--------------
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/MMP/Pages/MMPDispensaries.aspx

Dispensaries, Cooperatives and Collectives

The California Department of Public Health administers the Medical Marijuana Identification Card (MMIC) program only and does not have any information regarding dispensaries, growing collectives, etc Please follow this link to the State Attorney Generals Office guidelines:

http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1601_medicalmarijuanaguidelines.pdf

According to Senate Bill 420: "This bill authorize(s) the Attorney General to set forth and clarify details concerning possession and cultivation limits, and other regulations. The bill also authorize(s) the Attorney General to recommend modificaitons to the possession or cultivation limits set forth in the bill. The bill require(s) the Attorney General to develop and adopt guidelines to ensure the security and nondiversion of marijuana grown for medical use, as specified."

From the pdf:

The Act further states that Section 11357, relating to the possession of marijuana, and Section 11358, relating to the cultivation of marijuana, shall not apply to a patient, or to a patients primary caregiver, who possesses or cultivates marijuana for the personal medical purposes of the patient upon the written or verbal recommendation or approval of a physician. ( 11362.5(d).) Courts have found an implied defense to the transportation of medical marijuana when the quantity transported and the method, timing and distance of the transportation are reasonably related to the patients current medical needs. (People v. Trippet (1997) 56 Cal.App.4th 1532, 1551.)

Taxability-

Taxability of Medical Marijuana Transactions.

In February 2007, the California State Board of Equalization (BOE) issued a Special Notice confirming its policy of taxing medical marijuana transactions, as well as its requirement that businesses engaging in such transactions hold a Sellers Permit. (http://www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/medseller2007.pdf.) According to the Notice, having a Sellers Permit does not allow individuals to make unlawful sales, but instead merely provides a way to remit any sales and use taxes due. BOE further clarified its policy in a June 2007 Special Notice that addressed several frequently asked questions concerning taxation of medical marijuana transactions. (http://www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/173.pdf.)

(If the law addresses the legality of taxation for the sale of medical marijuana, isn't that also an "implied defense" that it is okay to sell the same within the boundaries of the MMJ Program law?)

This pdf addresses this issue in regard to sales tax for the state - it's the one noted directly above:

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:h0Uv41PQ8ZkJ:www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/173.pdf+http://www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/173.pdf&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjVHJIELpeOj29TDvJf8vNDTRmHsyK_DOx5BSQVsx7aFswDwc6hnXJl7Ai53v2EjBVoMy2ih3ijYImRAaVHUt1Kcfk0dZK5KpQy4eFP0YN2FDxwXzW4_zp65fU59lyxeycVoLSR&sig=AHIEtbQcZAxQc6mbdmL2dW1GGCsYof6U0A&pli=1

#13 on this page notes that selling medical marijuana is illegal under federal law.

In addition, NORML provides this information:

Possession with intent to sell any amount of marijuana is a felony under Health and Safety Code 11359. Police often charge intent to sell if they see such indicia as: scales, cash, multiple packages, "commercial" packaging materials, "excessive" quantity, pay-owe seets, address books, pagers, etc.

Cultivation of any amount of marijuana is a felony under Health and Safety Code 11358. People who grow for personal use are eligible for diversion under Penal Code 1000 so long as there is no evidence of intent to sell. There are no fixed plant number limits to personal use cultivation.

Sale, transportation or distribution of marijuana is a felony under Health and Safety Code Sections 11360. Transporting or giving away one ounce or less is a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum $100 fine.

----

If the Attn General of CA wants to go after dispensaries, iow, this is within the right of the State of California. He may call in DEA agents to assist in this. He may seek to bring the full force of the IRS into play to shut down dispensaries because the only thing that is legal in CA is the prescribing, small amount of possession, and individual caregiver cultivation of cannabis for legally prescribed medical marijuana patients.

The problem is that CALIFORNIA has made mmj legal but has not provided a framework to made this substance available for patients as it is for other legal medications.

-------

It seems that what needs to happen is a two-tier system - but, unless CA votes to legalize cannabis in 2012, that won't happen. For those who have a doctor's prescription, medical marijuana should be tax-exempt and sold through pharmacies.

For those who want to use cannabis legally for things other than medical use, cafes or liquor stores, or other such entities that are allowed to sell alcohol should be allowed to sell cannabis to adults, as well.

The problem with creating such a system is that federal law does not provide a way for such businesses to operate legally. However, as the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition showed, STATES and individuals FLOUTED THE FEDERAL LAW in regard to prohibition just as they do with cannabis now.

And, funny how somethings don't change...

via wiki - The issue of Prohibition became a highly controversial one among medical professionals, because alcohol was widely prescribed by physicians of the era for therapeutic purposes. Congress held hearings on the medicinal value of beer in 1921. Subsequently, physicians across the country lobbied for the repeal of Prohibition as it applied to medicinal liquors....While the manufacture, sale and transport of alcohol was illegal in the U.S., Section 29 of the Volstead Act allowed the making at home of wine and cider from fruit (but not beer). Up to 200 gallons per year could be made, and some vineyards grew grapes for home use.


What prohibition accomplished was the creation of a strong organized crime system that created havoc in cities. It led to the loss of knowledge from individual vinters and brewers who took their knowledge elsewhere. It led to the growth of greater use of "hard" liquor like gin, rather than beer or wine, with lower levels of alcohol content.

So, what I want to know is, why does our govt. remain ignorant of our own history and blind to the value of personal responsibility in regard to the use of cannabis when there is an example from the last century that demonstrates how stupid and wasteful such a use of the law is.

And, like alcohol prohibition - taxes from the sale of alcohol kept that money from being used by the govt in support of programs. With repeal, a HUGE industry was unleashed that helped to overcome some of the problems with unemployment during the Great Depression.

The same would be true with cannabis - not merely for personal use - but for hemp products and cultivation, medical research - so, what reason does the govt have to keep attempting and failing to enforce prohibition at this time on this nation? There's no good one I can think of.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. THis artcle says that DOJ claims ALL co opts are a target, even ones legal under state law.
http://safeaccessnow.org/blog/

The article claims the DOJ announced this at a presser....hoping someone can clarify...
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. It also noted that Bush did the same thing in 2007
sent letters telling dispensaries to close, etc. Some relocated, some shut down.

Colorado created more regulations with their implementation of their mmj law - cities can choose to opt out if they want. I think California needs to define its law a little better. If, as the article states, the majority of people in southern CA do not want to allow dispensaries, their citizens should be allowed to order by mail and have delivery - but they can keep dispensaries out of their cities if they'd like, for instance.

This will not happen in northern CA, as the article also noted.

maybe this is democratic pandering to the conservative portions of CA. It's sad to see such backward steps, but the reality is that law enforcement knows that prohibition is a waste of their time and a bad thing for democracy in general.

Here's a comment from the former police chief in San Diego - one of the areas that has a strong push-back on the mmj laws:

I've seen the prohibition's terrible impact at close range. Like an increasing number of law enforcers, I have learned that most bad things about marijuana -especially the violence made inevitable by an obscenely profitable black market - are caused by the prohibition, not by the plant.

Experience and research show that the United States has among the world's harshest marijuana laws, yet our consumption rate leads the world and is twice that of the Netherlands, where cannabis sales to adults have been allowed for decades. Prohibition doesn't keep marijuana away from young people. Annual U.S. government surveys consistently show that more than 80 percent of teenagers say that marijuana is "easy" or "very easy" to obtain. In a recent study from Columbia University, teenagers said it is easier to get illegal marijuana than age-regulated alcohol. Under today's laws, pot-dealing criminals getting rich on marijuana Prohibition don't ask for ID, but licensed dealers selling alcohol do.

Marijuana is already in the mix. No one can dispute that marijuana already is widely available. At least 1 in 10 Californians consumed it in the past year, despite expensive government efforts.

Joseph D. McNamara, San Jose's chief of police for 15 years.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. I'd like to know if this was really said at the press conference or not.
some are claiming it may not have been, which may be right- no one can seem to find another report on the press conference.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. I've been looking for other links - CBS News has one.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/09/eveningnews/main20117891.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

the irony is the statement that people are making profits from selling cannabis in a semi-regulated fashion and that's a rationale to close the shops - and put the cannabis on the black market where it can be sold to teenagers and/or anyone else for more money. the only "problem" this addresses is the lack of money that goes to drug cartels.

the statement is so stupid it burns. as someone else noted - our nation cannot afford to pay for domestic violence protection but we can afford to push cannabis onto the black market. nucking futz.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/07/local/la-me-obama-medical-marijuana-20111008

The Obama administration's crackdown on California's highly profitable medical marijuana industry represents a dramatic departure from the low-key approach it has long pursued.

California's four U.S. attorneys said Friday that they are taking aim at large-scale growers and dispensary owners who are raking in millions of dollars while falsely claiming that their medical marijuana operations comply with state law, which does not allow for-profit sales.


Again, the problem is the stupidity of pretending that medicines do not generate profits for those who produce and distribute them. - what other medicine is forced to be given away? honestly, I don't think the issue of giving away pot is such a big one - that's more of the ethos than the pharma model - but the reality is that it costs to produce it.

as the risk of prosecution diminished, storefront dispensaries and enormous growing operations proliferated in California, often in brazen defiance of zoning laws and local bans.

"That is not what the California voters intended or authorized, and it is illegal under federal law," said Andre Birotte Jr., the Los Angeles-based U.S. attorney for the Central District. "It does not allow this brick-and-mortar, Costco-Wal-Mart-type model that we see across California."

The prosecutors, who held a news conference in Sacramento to underscore their commitment to the campaign, said they are trying to enforce federal laws while respecting the intent of the state's voters, who passed the nation's first initiative to allow marijuana for medical purposes..

iow, the law does not allow for-profit cannabis distribution. therefore, until the state deals with the law it has in place - what the Attn. Gen is doing is enforcing the law that exists. Of course, the law that exists is a sort of middle ground between prohibition and legalization - and that's part of the problem, too.

If California votes to legalize in 2012, none of this will be an issue.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. So Obama is going to go after all MMJ unless they give it away for free.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 06:56 PM by Dr Fate
I guess Obama is taking a liberal/ progressive approach after all!

And since when is it the job of Federal executive branch to interpret or discern the intent of California voters?
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #105
114. THE ATTORNEY GENERALS OF CALIFORNIA CALLED FOR THIS. not Obama.
Obama has cooperated with them to help stop for-profit, ILLEGAL dispensaries from continuing their operations by putting the power of the IRS and Federal law enforcement behind the Attn Generals.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO SALE CANNABIS IN CALIFORNIA.

That's the law that the people of California voted into existence - and it is a law that is far, far more liberal than any other state - possibly with the exception of Colorado.

so, to repeat, yet again, THIS ACTION WAS BROUGHT BY THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, NOT OBAMA.

States can request help from federal agencies - this is not the first time this has been done.

You know, I am TOTALLY for legalization of cannabis. But the arguments put forth here are NOTHING but political bullshit. sorry, but that's the case.

Facts matter. I bothered to check mine and my initial reaction was wrong because it was based upon information that was not true. Just as the information you are putting forth now is not true.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. "IT IS ILLEGAL TO SALE CANNABIS IN CALIFORNIA."
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 07:50 PM by Upton
Is it illegal to cultivate and distribute it in California too?.... because that's what the Obama administration seems to be saying..

"Persons who are in the business of cultivating, selling or distributing marijuana and those who knowingly facilitate such activities, are in violation of the Controlled Substances Act, regardless of state law. Consistent with resource constraints and the discretion you may exercise in your district, such persons are subject to federal enforcement action, including potential prosecution. State laws or local ordinances are not a defense to civil or criminal enforcement of federal law with respect to such conduct, including enforcement of the CSA."

http://www.azdhs.gov/medicalmarijuana/documents/resources/guidance_regarding_medical_marijuana.pdf
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. Sounds like something liberals should defend and support. Nt
Nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #114
119. Obama can call off the DOJ, IRS, ATF or speak out against it if he disagrees.
Seems like he DOJ should have it's hands full investigating crime on Wall Street war profiteering, BP, Murdoch's wire taps, etc, etc. etc.

Exactly what is the GOAL of shutting down safe access, and why would a liberal or progressive support this action?
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #99
104. the only co-ops legal under CA law are those that give away cannabis n/t
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. Unless the article was misquoted, the DOJ may just snoop into their operations as well
Nt
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #106
115. where do you get that information?
I read more than one article and it does not say, anywhere, that any non-profit is at risk. the problem is entities that are not operating within the confines of the law, or the law itself.

so, either the way people are dispensing cannabis has to change or the law does.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #115
122. The FEDS are arguing that none of the safe access bricks & mortars are non profit.
Edited on Mon Oct-10-11 08:13 PM by Dr Fate
Others have posted articles about how growers, suppliers and bricks & mortar stores are being busted by the FEDS.

And where the fuck are these clinics that give it away for free? If there is no such thing, then that means everyone goes back to buying untaxed pot from teen agers on the street.

again, what is Obama's GOAL and why would a liberal or progressive support these actions?
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court jester Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #104
133. CA SB 420 (sic) allows for sales according to the following:
http://www.canorml.org/prop/patientsguide.htm

CAN I SELL MY EXCESS MEDICINE?
In general sales of marijuana are NOT permitted under Prop 215. However, SB 420 authorizes legal caregivers and collective/cooperative members to charge for their expenses in growing for others on a non-profit basis. Growers who provide for others should either be members of a collective or be bona fide primary caregivers.

so your post is technically incorrect

of course it all depends on the meaning of "expenses". And here's where the IRS stomps into the circus...

Even Stevie DeAngelo can't afford to fight them for any length of time, and his dispensary reportedly did 22m worth of business last year


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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
110. Hater.
NOT cool!
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. who? Obama or the OP?
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bluestate10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
118. Unrec this cowshit. nt
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Lizzie Poppet Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #118
124. Thanks for the reminder.
K+R...and my sincere condolences for your inability to deal with an "inconvenient truth."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
121. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
125. K&R.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
127. Very strange. And politically nonsensical at this moment.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
128. unrec for misleading crapola. yet again. no freaking surprise.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-10-11 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
129. kr+13
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
131. So, some dickhead named Franklin thinks pot has been driven back into the black market??
Maybe he ought to pull his head out of his ass.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #131
134. So you think a leading supporter of legal medical pot is a dickhead. What does that make you?

A pot prohibitionist.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 06:22 PM
Original message
10X smarter than Franklin, that's for damned sure.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-11-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. ..
Edited on Tue Oct-11-11 06:23 PM by Major Hogwash
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