Do you think the working conditions at Jobs' Chinese factories are acceptable?

[ZombieHorde]

Poll question: Do you think the working conditions at Jobs' Chinese factories are acceptable?

This poll is about your opinion.

By "acceptable," I mean acceptable to you, not Jobs. How do you feel about the workers in China? Did Jobs make their lives better, worse, or neither? Do their lives matter?

Edit to add link describing the working conditions: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/30/apple-chinese-factory-workers-suicides-humiliation

[Kahuna]

1. I have no idea what the working conditions are. What are they? nt

[Aerows]

Bad enough that 16 people commited suicide on the job

Prompting plant officials to force everyone to sign contracts that they wouldn't commit suicide on the job.

[ZombieHorde]

10. Excellent question.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/30/apple-chinese-factory-workers-suicides-humiliation

[justiceischeap]

2. How about another option?

Do you find working conditions in all US owned companies manufactured in China (or Mexico or any other foreign country they go to to get cheap labor) acceptable?

[ZombieHorde]

4. I really like DU polls, and I encourage you to make as many as you please. nt

[Donnachaidh]

8. all the halo polishing in the world doesn't rid the stain of the SUICIDES

caused by the slave labor conditions at Job's warehouses. Period.

[justiceischeap]

12. Who's polishing halo's?

I'm saying that I'm sure the conditions in other factories run by US companies are just as bad and we probably don't hear about the conditions because they don't have the popularity of Apple.

[Aerows]

18. That wasn't the question asked in the poll

So that's why I didn't answer that question. Since you asked, there are plenty of places that are also horrible places to work, such as that coal mine where 30 people died. To my knowledge Massey Energy had no consequences of any major import, even though they had been repeatedly cited for safety violations.

So yes, there are plenty of bad places to work, and there are plenty of places where people die and still those responsible get off with a slap on the wrist or less.

[Aerows]

3. Considering that they were forced to sign contracts

that they wouldn't commit suicide, I'd say "no". 16 people did, prompting them to force people to agree not to kill themselves over the working conditions. This isn't a joke - this really happened at the Foxconn plant that makes iPhone/iPad parts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

[arcane1]

6. And they put bars on the dormitory windows

to prevent more workers from jumping out of them and breaching their contract.

[Kahuna]

7. So...how do you know they committed suicide because of the

conditions at the plant?

[Aerows]

9. Read the article I just linked

I figured someone would ask, so I helpfully updated my post :)

[Donnachaidh]

11. are you actually serious?

Or defending the indefensible because of all the pretty toys Apple makes available?

[mike_c]

5. I don't know....

Perhaps you could supply some information?

[ZombieHorde]

15. I edited my OP, here is the link...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/30/apple-chinese-factory-workers-suicides-humiliation

[flamingdem]

13. If people want to be effective on this - start a boycott

otherwise nothing will change.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JNelson6563]

46. Yes. The article linked states high demand as part of the cause.

And yeah, as long as consumers demand it, some poor sods somewhere in the world will be made to produce it for next to nothing & those at the top roll naked in piles of money.

Julie

[dkf]

14. Will they prefer being replaced by robots?

Foxconn to rely more on robots; could use 1 million in 3 years

HONG KONG/TAIPEI (Reuters) - Taiwan's Foxconn Technology Group, known for assembling Apple's iPhones and iPads in China, plans to use more robots, with one report saying the company will use one million of them in the next three years, to cope with rising labor costs.

Foxconn's move highlights an increasing trend toward automation among Chinese companies as labor issues such as high-profile strikes and workers' suicides plague firms in sectors from autos to technology.

Contract manufacturers such as Foxconn, which also counts Dell, Hewlett-Packard and Nokia among its clients, are moving parts of their manufacturing to inland Chinese cities or other emerging markets.


http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE77016B20110801?irpc=932

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[Ellipsis]

17. Lovely, giving him personal ownership of a company he doesn't own... Fail.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ellipsis]

25. Your kind of a one trick pony aren't you? The premise of the poll is an incorrect assumption.

"Are you still beating your wife?"

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ZombieHorde]

38. I agree you are technically correct. Jobs did not own those factories,

he rented their services.

Do you think he had any power, or influence, over the working conditions of those factories? I do. I think he could have had his products made elsewhere. He had many options, especially with his billions of dollars, but he chose those factories knowing what was going on.

Side note: I like your avatar.

[Ellipsis]

41. I doubt very much he knew anything at all about it in his reality distortion field..

It's like blaming Obama for the current state of affairs. To some degree he's complicit, but he has a lot on his plate.

It's more Tim Cook who's the culprit of which I have had direct experience with an I can say is a total ass.

Shit, Jobs wore a black turtleneck and jeans everyday because it was one less decision in the day to make.


and Thanks.

[blogslut]

19. I can guarantee you

That whatever machine you're on, parts of it were made in China, using slave/child labor. You can't lay this problem entirely on the shoulders of a dead man.

[ZombieHorde]

26. OK. Are the working conditions acceptable to you? nt

[blogslut]

30. No, they are not.

But that's a nice deflection from your personal hypocrisy.

[ZombieHorde]

31. Do you also have this hypocrisy? nt

[blogslut]

33. I own a laptop

I also own a desktop. That they contain parts made under cruel conditions is a given.

But here's the thing: I don't go around pretending that I own a piece of the moral high ground when I really don't.

[ZombieHorde]

34. You are claiming moral high ground when you accuse people of hypocrisy.

I have not called anyone any names, or even used the terms "sweat shop" or "slave labor," all I have done was claimed I don't like the working conditions at those factories.

Personally, I think you have demonstrated more unhappiness with my poll and I, than I have toward Steve Jobs.

[blogslut]

36. LOL

Okay. You have fun with that. Enjoy your poll.

[ZombieHorde]

39. Thank you; I will. nt

[shanti]

20. for one

it's not "job's" factory anymore....

[OhioChick]

22. Hell no, not acceptable....

100 Hours Of Overtime, No-Suicide Pacts, Standing For 14 Hours A Day



http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/05/10/164566/workers-who-make-ipad/

Foxconn Installs Anti-Suicide Nets at Its Facilities



While I know that Foxconn produces for Dell, HP, Sony, Acer, Intel, Nintendo, Motorola, Cisco and others, Apple gets no free pass here.

With the mark up on their products, they could easily manufacture them here and still turn a significant profit if they wanted to separate their company from the rest.

And now it looks as if they've found someone cheaper than Foxconn:

Apple moving out of (mainland) China, dumps Foxconn as contracts expire.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41293/apple-drops-foxconn-for-ipad-3

Chinese workers urge Apple to act on n-hexane poisoning

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/22/chinese-workers-apple-nhexane-poisoning

Apple chief executive Steve Jobs holds up the new MacBook Air at the MacWorld Conference in 2008 in San Francisco. Apple also does not reveal how many of its employees are based in the United States. Apple and Pfizer are part of a coalition of companies pushing for Congress to give them a tax break on money they have parked overseas, saying that any money brought back to this country would spur hiring.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/keeping-the-number-of-us-jobs-a-mystery/2011/08/08/gIQAFBA8UJ_gallery.html#photo=5

[ChromeFoundry]

40. ...completely agree!!!

and seeing all the "worship" threads on here due to his death, while he played a hand in the working conditions that caused the suicides in China's Foxconn... doesn't sit well with me AT ALL.

[INdemo]

24. Do you think Walmart sells anything that is not made in China?

[ZombieHorde]

28. The one in my town does. Do you think the working conditions in those factories are acceptable? nt

[workinclasszero]

29. Hell no

Steve could have taken a billion out of his own pocket and made great products right here in America employing thousands of Americans in middle class jobs or he could have at least paid a decent wage to his Chinese employees.

But oh HELL NOES!

Instead he kept his 7 billion and employed slave labor in China that kill themselves over the horrible working conditions they are forced to endure.

Draw your own conclusions...

Wonder if that 7 billion makes any difference to Steve Jobs now?

[locahungaria]

32. I voted not acceptable.

I find the conditions imposed on the Chinese workers appalling and the fact that American companies outsource what used to be good paying jobs right here to countries where they can get away with appalling labor conditions equally vile.

All in the name of the Almighty $$$.

[Cali_Democrat]

35. Interesting question

I think I'll go with 'no'

[pipi_k]

37. One thing to consider before answering the question...

Instead of Steve Jobs, if the person named above were Dick Cheney...George W Bush...Rush Limbaugh...or some other hated/despised RW figure...

would those conditions still be acceptable?

I'm thinking....probably not.

In fact, I'm thinking that even if the conditions were better than most of us live with on a daily basis, there would still be something wrong with them.

Just because of the person at the top.

:eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

43. There is probably some truth to that, Steve Jobs does make great toys. nt

[pampango]

42. No country with a per capita GDP of $7500 is going to have "acceptable" working conditions

in its factories, IMHO. China should improve their working conditions as fast as possible, just as like Japan, South Korea and others did in the past 60 years. Chinese workers, while repressed, have been active in demanding their rights with strikes and even the killing some CEO's in recent years.

When I lived in the Philippines in the 1970's many people sought jobs in foreign-owned companies because they paid 2 or 3 times what you could make in a domestic factory and the working conditions were much better. Pay and working conditions were still far from American standards though, so I did not find it "acceptable" in a personal sense. Was presence of these foreign companies beneficial for Filipinos? Should their "home" countries have somehow prevented them from setting up shop in the Philippines?

China's per capita GDP has gone from $251 in 1980 to $7544 in 2010. (It was $796 in 1990 and $2379 in 2000.) Their rate of growth will probably slow down as it did in Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, among others, but it's pretty amazing that a country of well over a billion people went from $251 to $7544 in 30 years. I doubt they will ever approach the US' per capita GDP of $47,284. Perhaps they will one day get close to that of the EU - $30,388.

During the same 1980-2010 time frame the Philippines stagnated. Their per capita GDP in 1980 was $1334 (more than 5 times that of China) and grew to only $3920 (a little over half of China) by 2010.

http://www.indexmundi.com/china/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China
http://www.indexmundi.com/philippines/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html
http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/gdp_per_capita_(ppp).html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union

[Logical]

44. No, but the cult members do not care. Jobs can do no wrong!

[JVS]

45. That's a really good question. And your follow up especially so.

Jobs' factories have goddamned suicide nets. That they need to have these indicates to me that the working conditions are unacceptable. They are indicative of a great inhumanity that is being inflicted upon these people, and one that should not be tolerated.

But the question of whether Jobs made their lives better, worse, or neither becomes complicated. Jobs' defenders will no doubt point to the fact that these factories provide employment for their workers. And indeed it is hard to imagine that people would be willing to accept jobs that ruin their lives. But these workers are obviously being abused if their work drives them to such desperate measures. Somehow they are being maneuvered into a deplorable situation and it should be stopped.

I hope that the Chinese government and the Chinese Communist Party use their authority to correct the abuses that these workers suffer, for it is their own anthem that says "Arise! All those who don't want to be slaves."

[totodeinhere]

47. Chinese Apple Users Mourn Steve Job's Death

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/06/141102788/chinese-apple-users-mourn-steve-jobs-death

Steve is a cult figure in China. Apple products fly off the shelf there. The average Chinese electronics consumer may not be aware of conditions in the sweat shops. With controlled media in that country it is quite possible. But since we are talking about Steve Jobs and China, I think that this angle is worth mentioning. Regardless of the sweat shops, and I oppose conditions in those shops just like everybody else does, Steve has also brought a lot of good to China through his products that are so popular there.