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Bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 09:44 AM
Original message
Unable to pay child support, poor parents land behind bars
Thousands of so-called “deadbeat” parents are jailed each year in the U.S. after failing to pay court-ordered child support — the vast majority of them for withholding or hiding money out of spite or a feeling that they’ve been unfairly gouged by the courts.

But in what might seem like an un-American plot twist from a Charles Dickens’ novel, advocates for the poor say, some parents are wrongly being locked away without any regard for their ability to pay — sometimes without the benefit of legal representation.

Randy Miller, a 39-year-old Iraqi war vet, found himself in that situation in November, when a judge in Floyd County, Ga., sent him to jail for violating a court order to pay child support.

He said he was stunned when the judge rebuffed his argument that he had made regular payments for more than a decade before losing his job in July 2009 and had recently resumed working.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44376665/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. You should not face loss of liberty without representation. Turner v. Rogers was wrong.
I think due process demands that you get adequate representation--not just rely on the judge and prosecutor playing fair.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Because in jail
you can earn enough to pay? I thought this theory had been discredited well over 150 years ago.

Oh, wait, some want their country back.
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IndyPragmatist Donating Member (556 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Cant you have the child support recalculated?
My parents got divorced when I was young and my father was doing well when it happened. My mom was getting a hefty amount from my father for child support because at the time, he could afford it. However, my father's business went downhill and my parents went to court to have it recalculated.

I guess this requires a reasonably healthy relationship between the two parents, but still, if you legitimately cannot afford to pay the amount, you should be able to have it reduced. If you can afford the amount and just decide to stop paying, that's another story.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It costs money...court fees, attorney fees, filing fees
If you legitimately cannot pay your child support, then you most likely can't pay all of the costs attached to saying you cannot pay your child support.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. It depends
In IL a child support agreement is considered a contract. There sometimes is language that states that the contract cannot be renegociated if circumstances change. It protects both parties they say.

But this contract has the force of a court order. So if you violate the court order it is off to jail with you!
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. From the OP, it sounds as if the parent thought that's what the court would do.
The problem is that he should have appeared in court within a few months of being unemployed to ask for a temporary reduction in support. That of course would necessitate him understanding the process and having an advocate (like a lawyer) to make the case for him.

Once the support is in arrears, the bargaining power with the court slips away. However, if the nonsupporting parent can demonstrate that the failure to pay was because of lack of income, throwing him or her in jail isn't going to improve that parent's ability to pay.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hear that, Joe?
No? Then you need to "walsh" the tea bags outta your ears!
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. He should be behind bars. Maybe then he'd learn not to be so cocky...
and stop running off the mouth/head. What a despicable character.
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. This doesn't apply to Joe. The topic says POOR parents.
If you don't pay child support because you can't afford it, you get sent to jail.
If you don't pay child support even though you can afford it, you get a pass.

Capisca?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Who's that deadbeat congresscritter again?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. So us tax payers can pay for them to be in jail ...at what cost?
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bakpakr Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. When I was to pay CS
the amount I was ordered to pay was not based on my actual income. The way they compute the amount you pay here is based on your earning potential. We are talking about a county in Pennsylvania. Does not matter if your current employment provides the income to meet your earning potential. At the time I was evaluated for my CS I was not working in my chosen profession but at a lower paying position. My ordered amount was set for more than I was bringing in as a gross income. I was bringing in gross about $1200 a month. The amount I was ordered to pay was $2000 a month. When I objected I was told that I had better find a way to make up the difference or I would be jailed. I ended up getting a second job at part time to make up the difference. I was then forced to live on $175 a month after I paid my CS. I lived in a tent for a number of years just so I could afford to eat.

Thankfully now My children are grown and no longer have to pay CS. But the real kicker is my last child quit school and got a job. But I was not informed until several month after. I then stopped paying CS once I learned this. I was hauled into court for not paying. Once I got to court prior to the hearing the prosecutor was gathering information from the defendants to ensure that we were there and that we knew why we were there. When asked if I knew why I was there I replied that I was there for not paying CS for an adult that was working. That caught them off guard. When I got in-front of the judge he was dead set on sending me to jail but when he inquired as to my reason for not paying I told him that the child who was to receive the CS was not an adult living in his own home separate from his mother working a full time job. The judge inquired of the prosecutor if this was in fact true and the prosecutor did not have an answer for him. The judge continued the hearing until the truth of the matter could be ascertained. In the end the child was emancipated and CS was terminated at the time he turned 18 and moved out with a job. It was found that I had over paid CS by $10,000 and that there is nothing in place for me to recover the over payment.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-12-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. I run a low income family law clinic and see both sides of this all the time.
The reason the courts do this is there actually is pretty high rate of compliance with the purge orders (pay x to purge your contempt of show up at county jail in 10 days for a 30 day sentence) after literally years of non payment. It is quite amazing that people can find several thousand dollars in a matter of days when the have the proper motivation.

A problem I do see is the principle of 'imputed income' and basing child support on that. The classic case is when a doctor making 250k for many years decides to cut his/her practice down to 1 day a week and have the court base his/her CS on the new 50k income. That is an easy one to say that the Court should impute his income for tax purposes at 250k.

The harder cases are when someone makes a regular salary of about $40k. In my state, the CS would be about $750 per month. What happens is the person quits/gets laid off and cannot find another job. Maybe they move in with family and stop looking for work because they are frustrated. The Court wants to get the non-custodial spouse to pay CS - not for completely altruistic reasons - the state usually gets most of the CS to offset state benefits provided to the custodial parent/children. So, even though the person does not have a job and is unlikely to get one earning 40k easily, the Court will often impute his/her income at 40k and base CS on that.

I will say that in cases where people have counsel or even come and get information from a clinic like mine, I believe they do better in avoiding jail and explaining their case to the judge.
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