The best way to stay out of student loan debt and boost your resume (low or free tuition in EU, etc)

[stockholmer]

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/study-abroad

One of these places is also our hallowed institutions of higher learning. It’s no secret that the cost of university education, especially in the United States, is staggering. Tuition at private schools in the US averages $30,000 annually, and students often graduate over $50,000 in debt.

This leads to a fancy form of indentured servitude; students with this kind of debt load are forced to take the first paid work they can find, and they’ll work for the next 14-years of their life just to start back at zero.

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Let’s say you’re an Ivy League type. Why pay Harvard $52,000 per year when you can go to the University of Cambridge in England http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international/costs.html for around $19,000 per year? Cambridge is consistently rated as one of the top universities in the world: same quality education, a fraction of the price.

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Still too much? Try Albert Einstein’s Alma Mater, the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH) in Zurich http://www.rektorat.ethz.ch/students/finance/fees/index_EN . If you make the cut, ETH’s tuition fee is a whopping $750 per semester for both undergraduate and graduate programs, and the school is typically ranked among Europe’s top 5 universities.

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Btw, Austrian uni's are around 500 dollars US per semester, Vienna was just rated the best place in the world to live in one survey, and is always in the top 5 in most.
University of Vienna (Universität Wien) is huge (90,000 students), ancient (founded 1365), and world class (ranked 42nd in the world by Times of London Higher Education Supplement).

Courses and Programmes in English :

http://online.univie.ac.at/vlvz?extended=Y&semester=W2011&fakultaet=-1&lang=en



Even less tuition : Norway http://www.studyinnorway.no/sn/Tuition-Scholarships/Tuition-fees and Finland http://www.studyinfinland.fi/tuition_and_scholarships/tuition_fees are still tuition free for all non-EU students, although some Masters Programmes in Finland do charge (not the Bachelors or Doctoral programmes).

Unfortunately, we here in Sweden just started charging all non-EU students for Bachelors and Masters starting this semester of Autumn 2011(our Doctoral programmes actually pay the students between approx. 35,000 and 100,000 dollars per year, depending on field of study).

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. I guess the downside is that many Americans only speak English. It would be hard

to take classes in some countries.

Still, I like the idea and am tucking it away for when my kids get older. They are certainly bright enough to go to college, just not rich enough.

[stockholmer]

2. there are many, many courses and programmes taught entirely in English at all countries listed

Sorry for not making that clearer.

cheers

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. That's terrific!

[Overseas]

3. K&R.

[SheilaT]

4. How willing are those schools to take U.S. students?

To me the sad thing is that students and parents don't take a very hard look at the cost of college and instead of undertaking serious debt, start out at a local junior college.

The other problem is that too many young people are sold on the idea that they need a four year degree when many would be better off with some kind of vocational training.

[demwing]

6. I think you wrote that in reverse...did you mean:

"parents don't take a very hard look at the cost of college and instead of starting out at a local junior college, they undertake serious debt..." ???

[SheilaT]

17. I did kind of word it awkwardly.

This might be better:
Parents should take a hard look at the cost of college. Instead of undertaking a lot of debt, may their kids should start out at the local junior college, then transfer to the state university to finish up.

Sorry.

[stockholmer]

7. All countries listed are very willing to take US students, provided they have decent grades, plus

another easy way to get accepted is via a transfer (if a student took some college courses, and then dropped out, especially if they quit due to the tremendous cost of the US universities).

A huge plus is that most countries make it much easier to get a post education work permit if you graduated from one of their schools. Also, once you are attending a foreign school, you are grandfathered in at free or near-free tuition, even if the country starts to charge non-EU students (this is the case here in Sweden this year, and also was the case when Denmark in 2004 and Holland in 2005 started charging non-EU students.

[enlightenment]

8. Most will take your money in a heartbeat - but it's not

quite as cheap as it sounds.

When my grad school advisor was hired at Cambridge (argh), he suggested that I could 'follow him' and finish my degree there. I looked into it and the total cost (not just tuition, but cost of living, etc) would have been about $34,000 a year. I couldn't swing it then (or now, for that matter). At the time, non-EU students' were extremely restricted as to paid employment while there.

My son is currently attending Goldsmiths in London; it's a damned good school. His tuition is locked in at just over 10,000 GBP - but he also has to live in London (expensive) and can only work 20 hours a week during the school term (full-time during summer and school breaks). He had to have a year's worth of living expenses IN THE BANK (roughly 800 quid a month) plus verification that he could pay his tuition before he could get his student visa. Fortunately, we were able to cobble it together for him - and since the visa is good for three years (the standard length of an undergraduate programme in the UK), he only had to prove that he has the ability to live there once.

It's doable - but DO THE RESEARCH and know exactly what the real costs will be.

[stockholmer]

9. I agree about the UK costs (especially London, having lived there for years)but most other countries

listed allow the students to now work as much as they want, and the cost of living is lower in many cases than a typical major US city (especially the smaller towns here in the EU).

Even the UK is usually a better deal, especially if you are going to a world-class uni for 30,000 or so dollars less per year vis-a-vis the USA.

Sweden was by far the best deal for years, as the cost of living here (and I live in the most expensive area, Stockholm) dwarfs that of NYC, San Francisco, Washington DC, Boston, LA, etc, and it is fairly easy to find at least part-time work here. Unfortunately, as I previously stated, we ended free tuition for all non-EU this fall. Norway is expensive overall, but certainly the cost is balanced out as you don't have to pay 25,000 to 50,000 per year in tuition.

Also, as you stated, our universities are only 3 years for a bachelor, not 4 like the US. The money for one one year's expenses does have to be in the bank, but the checking of that is fairly lax here in the Nordic, and renewals are very easy.

Also, once you are approved on a student permit, you get full social benefits, such as basically free health care, etc. This also needs to be factored in. The only thing you cannot do here in Sweden is to vote in national elections (our municipalities also non citizens to vote, as the non-citizens are impacted by their political decisions).

[enlightenment]

19. I absolutely agree with you.

I think my son made a great decision - both for his degree and his future life options. I only caution doing full research - and if looking at the UK, to be very careful about thinking that a student visa is a ticket to a long-term residence in that country. They're really cracking down on people coming on student visas and then dropping out of their programmes, taking jobs, and disappearing into the crowd . . .

Looking at it retrospectively (which I shy away from doing because then I feel an overwhelming urge to beat my head against a wall until I lose consciousness), I would have been far better off paying the $34,000 (somehow) for the two years it would have taken for me to complete my PhD at Cambridge. Staying here was, quite honestly, a mistake on multiple levels.

[supernova]

10. I can attest to Uni of Vienna

That place is niiiiice. :-) I was fortunate to be able to go to summer school there after I graduated UNCG. I would go back to study in Europe or the UK in a heartbeat.

One of the things that keeps me from signing up to grad programs over here is the awful cost. Studying and improving one's mind should not break the bank. I'm 49, while I want my Masters at least, there's no way going into 50K debt for it makes sense at this stage of my life.

[PufPuf23]

11. I feel sorry for young people today having to take on such debt

and with so much uncertainty about job prospects.

Went to Cal in the early 70s starting age 21. Cal was still on the quarter system and the fees were +/-$90 per quarter. I actually bought a house before starting university for $20,000 with owner carrying paper. I worked and had scholarships. My gf and I had a $200/month top story, pre-earthquake flat on Durant (2 blocks from campus) we kept year round for 3 yrs (lived there 6 to 9 months per year). The last two years with another gf turned ex-wife served as caretakers on an estate in Piedmont where we lived for free and her brother took our place in the Summer. I did not have a student loan. I had saved $5000 before starting. I graduated with a wife, paid for house in my home town, a job, a pick up, and no debt.

Went back to Cal 85-87 for a Masters paid for by cashing out the retirement from my job and parttime work. Rented a room near the Berkeley Rose Garden with two other grad students and the owner of the home for $400/mth. Then Cal was on a semester system and IIRC $212 in fees per semester. I took out a $5000 loan to buy my first pc plus wordperfect, lotus123, and dbase. Graduated with a job, another pickup, and no debt except a mortgage on a second post-divorce house (so I had two rentals). I now regret having cashed out my retirement and would have borrowed money in hindsight.

Edit: Plus Berkely was by far the most international place I have ever lived.

[stockholmer]

14. as the US student loan debt surges, another huge bubble is being created

http://gawker.com/5826921/yes-there-is-a-student-loan-bubble

Yes, There Is a Student Loan Bubble

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The report also points out that colleges are steering students towards ever larger private loans, and that, since demand for education actually rises during bad economic times, we're now smack dab in dynamic consisting of more people taking out more loans for school that will not provide them with a job that will enable them to pay back those loans, leading to higher loan defaults and, ultimately, the risk of a collapsing bubble—which, in this case, would be bad not only for the normal economic reasons, but also because it would discourage enrollment in higher education over the long term, giving America a less educated work force over the coming decades.

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http://image.exct.net/lib/fefb127575640d/m/2/Student+Lendings+Failing+Grade.pdf

Student Lending’s Failing Grade

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Delinquency rates on student loans have not improved as have the rates for other kinds of consumer loans, raising the prospect that significant numbers of student loan borrowers will be unable to repay their loans in the coming years, Moody's Analytics says in a new report assessing the stability of the student loan market. The report notes that the student loan market expanded during the last part of the 2000s, in contrast to mortgages and other kinds of borrowing that was significantly tightened during the economic downturn. But while delinquency rates on those housing and car loans that were issued after the worst of the downturn have improved, those for student loans have flattened, Moody's says. "Unless students limit their debt burdens, choose fields of study that are in demand, and successfully complete their degrees on time, they will find themselves in worse financial positions and unable to earn the projected income that justified taking out their loans in the first place."

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http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/CutCollegeCosts/StudentLoansAnotherBubblePops.aspx

Student loans: Another bubble pops?

Has the U.S. created an "education bubble" fueled by easy money and over-borrowing by families desperate to pay rising tuition costs?

Expect a hastily sputtered "no way" from economists, university officials and student-lending specialists. They attach a high monetary value to academic degrees, no matter how fast tuition rises. As proof, they cite the big and growing income gap between college graduates and people with just high-school diplomas.

But the student-loan market has been riddled with signs of trouble lately. Default rates are rising. Big-name lenders are pulling out or scaling back. And investors who used to snap up bonds backed by bundles of student loans have instead snapped their checkbooks shut.


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http://seekingalpha.com/article/277941-shorting-student-loans-the-next-major-credit-bubble


Shorting Student Loans: The Next Major Credit Bubble

America's debt crisis did not end with the subprime mortgage crisis. Mortgages, may set off the trigger, but the student loan debt is an overlooked bond bubble waiting to crash.

Student loans have surpassed credit card debt for the leading type of private debt among Americans. The cost of higher education has been outpacing inflation since 1982, as the real cost of education has increased 339%. Societal pressure to go to college and some students' decisions to go to non-Ivy League private schools has students from middle income backgrounds racking up anywhere between $50,000 to $200,000 in student loan debt. That figure does not include graduate school, where many students will add more loans that easily surpass six figures to obtain a masters, law degree, MBA, or medical degree.

With the current state of the job market, many if not most of these unfortunate borrowers will not be able to pay off their debt with a lower than expected income. This trend is showing itself through increasing default rates of student loans. Three-year default rates have risen from 11.8% for loans issued in 2007 to 13.8% issued in 2008 (most recent data available). Meanwhile, the fundamental factors driving these defaults have not changed since.

Historically, investors have not worried about the default of these securities because of their explicit government guarantees through FFELP. In addition to this, student loans are the only debt that cannot be forgiven through bankruptcy. Student loan collectors have gone to the extent of garnishing wages and racking up penalties that can double the borrower's debt in the name of "forgiveness" to maintain a return for bondholders.

This story sounds similar to housing: If the borrowers fail to pay, lenders seize the asset (house for a mortgage, garnished wages for student loans). The story will end the same way, as students lack the income to maintain their living expenses plus the debt or even just the interest payments if they are unemployed. The other option that students will begin to take more is moving abroad to avoid collectors. Financial distress will make it practical to exile oneself to avoid a lifetime of debt slavery. The combination of lower incomes for college grads and expatriation will increase the default rate to even high levels than current record rates.

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http://www.good.is/post/when-will-the-bubble-burst-student-loan-debt-swells-511-percent/

When Will the Bubble Burst? Student Loan Debt Swells 511 Percent


It's no secret that American students are being crushed by student loans. We're on track to cross the $1 trillion mark in total student debt, exceeding household credit card debt, sometime later this year. That sounds pretty insane, but thanks to our colleagues at The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/chart-of-the-day-student-loans-have-grown-511-since-1999/243821/ we can see just how far out of hand the situation has spiraled.

The magazine tapped data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and found that total student loan debt increased a whopping 511 percent between the first quarter of 1999 and the first quarter of 2011:



We all know how much havoc the housing bubble wreaked on our economy, but it turns out the growth of student loan debt was twice as steep as the growth of mortgages and revolving home equity from 1999 to the peak of the housing bubble in 2008. One thing is for sure: if mass numbers of students start defaulting, or if they stop spending on other things because their money is going to paying off loans, a day of reckoning is surely coming. The only question is when?


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Classic catch-22, as the economy and job market worsen, more students will go into univeristies. Then to fight the economic situation, The Federal Reserve is debasing the US dollar even further, thus leading to increasing costs. Finally, as the jobs continue to vanish in America, there are fewer ways the pay back the massive debts being rung up in student loans. As the salaries earned by college graduates decrease in many, many fields in terms of real dollars, the fortunate ones to find jobs will face a longer and longer term of their life in chattel debt servitude.

[saras]

12. I have two questions

one - how prepared is the typical American high school grad for European colleges?

two - how wealthy do you have to be to be able to leave America and go live in Europe to go to school (entirely separate from what the school costs)? is it practical for a kid without wealthy parents who's dependent on financial aid to go to college at all?

[stockholmer]

15. If they're academically proficient enough to get into a decent US uni, then they can do fine here, &

as to the cost, I addressed it above in some of my previous replies. Suffice it to say that the cost of living in much of the EU discussed is less than that of the major US cities, plus they will not generally need a car, nor health insurance. They also can work part time (nowadays most EU nations do not cap student work hours, although the UK does).

I think there has been a large false meta-narrative built into the US zeitgeist that you need to be be rich to come to study in the EU. Most people have visions of Swiss boarding schools, or millionaires scions off to do a year abroad in some Roma palacio. This is most definitely NOT the case. Another undercurrent is the abnormal fear of the international sphere that I saw exhibited by so so many, even in NYC, but especially out in the hinterlands. Finally, the idea that the 'whole world is just itching to come to the US to live because we are the best' paradigm runs rampant across so much of the US social strata.

My advice is to due diligence, and talk to people who actually have done it.

[LynneSin]

13. My recommendation has always been this

It would be nice to go to foreign schools but they are tough to get into for Americans.

If a kid can't get a scholarship then the best thing to do is spend the first 1-2 years at home taking the core classes that all college kids need to graduate college. I mean we all took some sort of English class. Does it make a difference if you took it at the local community college vs. taking it at a private university? In 1-2 years you could get rid of the non-major credits needed to get a degree and them do the rest of your studies at a regular college for JR/SR year.

[stockholmer]

16. many universities here (depending on the programme) are actually very easy for a US student to get

into, provided they have results equal to acceptance level at the average US full university. Do not always think that you only options are OxBridge, LSE, the Sorbonne, etc. We have hundreds of great schools here, many would love to have the diversity and vitality that a good US student would bring to the table.

Also, the transfer option is another perfectly viable method.

[MichiganVote]

18. K&R