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Several things about this quake, and why we west coasters should NOT make fun

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:34 PM
Original message
Several things about this quake, and why we west coasters should NOT make fun
1.- The SUBSTRATE is ancient rock... so it rings like the proverbial bell... and it is felt quite further away from the epicenter than it would in places like San Diego... which is far much newer, aka younger rock.

2.- The west coast has this thing called Building Codes... we more or less build for this shit and for the most part can laugh it up when it is a six pointer... now a seven pointer Mexico City laughs we don't.

3.- This is quite the new thing for a lot of folks in the East coast.

Now to the East coasties... let me reach for that disaster manager hat.

Realize that there are a few things that can get affected even with a six pointer, even in San Diego... water mains come to mind. So for the next few days... consider getting bottled water. THis is a little into how you build these things, but your main water main, potable water, runs side by side to your waste water... and at times they get cracked and it mixes.

Also check your house for obvious cracks. If you find any.. chances are it is not structural, still have it checked by an engineer. Be ready for after shocks.

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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good points, all of them...
I suspect they react to an earthquake much the way we would if we were confronted by a hurricane or cyclone.

It's scary and unusual...

Vibes to all east coast folks!

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Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Well, no
For the most part people are just startled and interested. Quakes on the NE are rare but they do happen. Very small tremors happen all the time, but you don't notice them.

For those nearer the main action that might have had stuff fall on them and felt considerably more impact, it is of course more of an event.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for this. East coast infrastructure is not built to
withstand earthquakes. And most of it is very, very old. Lots of gov't buildings here in NY are being evacuated.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Brick facades and stone decorations can be a problem.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree. Same thing applies for snowstorms in the South. nt.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm wondering if the type of rock we sit on means that we get
less damage from the quake. I was thinking that the ground at the epicenter may just transmit a single slap rather than repeated rocking back and forth. At the same time, the fact that the quake was felt over such a great distance suggests that the energy is diffused over a large area.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Damage depends on the following factors
Depth of quake... the closer to the surface the worst the damage, rule of thumb

TYPE of quake... it will generate different wave forms. Some wave forms are more damaging than others.

SUBSTRATE type... in fact the old rock has a better potential of damage... because it does magnify how they are felt. Thankfully it is a really ancient slab so the frequency of these things are really low. But when the New Madrid fault goes... oh my. Last time, it changed the course of the Mississippi (It is estimated at 9.0)

And of course once you reach a built up area... the buildings and how they interact with the wave form... at times you have a phenomena called resonance, where it makes it feel worst, (and it is) and leads to more damage. This phenomena was first identified during the mexico city quake where buildings side by side but at a 90% angle reacted different to it.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. An interesting side light from the New Madrid quake:
a lot of land near the Mississippi liquified during the quake, so buildings, people and animals were seen to sink into the earth. After the quake, the ground was once again solid. I think this is where Americans get the idea that during an earth quake the ground opens up to swallow things.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. If it is strong enough it does
And I do not care what standards you use, if the land liquifies... yep I am in an area that will probably do if we have a strong enough quake.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I'm recalling a quake in San Francisco maybe 35 years back
which caused major damage in areas built on landfill and relatively nothing even blocks away.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yep, the 1989 quake
it stopped the world series too.





Photos included for the memories
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Tikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes gas lines and water lines...
and some may have pets that'll need a bit of reassurance. If you are afraid you can bet they feel your fear and are
feeling that, too.


Tikki
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. excellent post...and thanks for the advice
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. Great post, Nadin!
:thumbsup:

PB
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for this OP, nb.. I KNEW there were a bunch of us Atlanticans
that would find it useful.
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sweetapogee Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. any recommendations
any recommendations for a good structural engineer?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nope and HOPEFULLY the city will have some
Problem is that the EAST COAST has a much lower seismic threat (except new madrid area) so it has really not gotten ready. I would not be too shocked if the West Coast states are prepared to send a few.
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sweetapogee Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. and
we will need you all to set up a fund set up to pay for all this and the hurricane too
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Alas this is what taxes and GOVERNMENT does, when it functions well
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. Thank you and God Bless you Nadin. The people making fun of this
and saying it was no big deal were not here. I can tell you it scared the crap out of me. I literally saw the walls moving back and forth like a house of cards. It was also very loud. I am 70 miles from epicenter.

I am grateful my husband and I are okay.

Drawers open in all the dressers upstairs and lots of broken crystal/china in my china cabinet. No other damage that I know of at this moment.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Check walls and supporting pillars
Edited on Tue Aug-23-11 02:14 PM by nadinbrzezinski
and yes, this applies to you... get bottled water.

And yes that was the quake here a year and a half ago... we lost a few minis... (We do miniature gaming)

Oh and dopey me... check your gas inlet, if you have any smell of gas, close it.
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Will do, thank you. We do have a good stash of bottled water :)
Boy I could use a hug. I'm having a wine cooler. I'm not an alkie, honestly, but a mild drink right now felt like what I needed.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. HUGS
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thank you! n/t
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. The East coast doesn't have building codes?
Edited on Tue Aug-23-11 02:08 PM by RUMMYisFROSTED
Bad news. I rely on the E. coast for sanity.





eta: "make fun"...straw
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Not earthquake codes
they are a little different. They have tried over the years, but the retrofitting cost goes into the cost \benefit. Yes, when New Madrid goes it will be epic, but try to convince people they are in an earthquake zone.

Also when city managers see the cost of enforcing a quake series of codes they usually balk, and it does raise the construction cost.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Cost/benefit is the FACT.
A 5.9 doesn't get you off your seat.

An 8 makes you an activist.

The Bush Tax Cuts are an asteroid!

:think:


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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. True...
Up here where I live in Western Mass, we concern ourselves with different kinds of structural codes which take into account snowfall on roofs and stuff.

Which isn't to say we never get earthquakes here, because we do. Last one I remember was in 2003 or so...a 3.something in a nearby town. I did feel that one...

Anyway, I'm in the hilltowns. On the side of a hill at 1300 ft, and we didn't feel a thing here. But a friend of mine who lives in Canada said she felt it. So it went by us, didn't shake the hill, and went on to give Ontario a bit of a jolt.



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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Substrate makes so much of a difference
rule of thumb in Mexico City, at my parent's house... if we felt it... it was larger than a 6.0, serious.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks for this post. Our fellow Californians who
have made the snarky posts should be ashamed of themselves.
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Consider how much SHIT we californians get on a regular basis... let us have our initial fun...
But make no mistake we take it VERY seriously because we KNOW that you out there don't have any kind of earthquake code to speak of.
from what I've seen the buildings are made to withstand hurricanes and heavy snowy winters (I might add a great deal of California gets snowed in every winter, we get tornadoes and the occasional hurricane!)

Quite often it's the duration of the quake rather than the intensity that makes it dangerous.
Since you're on bedrock, you're in MORE danger than we in California. we have a lot of sand and shifting earth (all those micro quakes) you don't.

As noted above, the fact that you're on a solid shelf makes it worse because the intensity doesn't disperse as fast as it does in the west.

Again, I hope all is well, but the reports will slowly trickle in. people aren't used to this ad are probably in shock that it happened at all. Hurricane code is fine, but this being a 5.8 would do start to do some real damage to more rigid buildings.
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'm laughing at one thing and one thing only:
the way the MSM is portraying this as a "disaster." As far as we know, there's been no loss of life, no MAJOR structural damage, phone lines are busy but the infrastructure remains and CNN/MSNBC/FAUX/HLN are all reporting it as if a Cat. 5 hurricane just came rolling through. THAT'S what I'm shaking my head at.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Well yes, the media is funny...
they should cover it yes... especially since trains stopped running (DUH!) but trying to make this look like a major quake... they are adding to the anxiety.

And they are not giving any of the usual advise, like check cracks, get water and check gas mains... now that would be borderline useful.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. Yet, another hat.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. ...
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la la Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. actually-
if there were no people living on the earth--there would not be this problem

( would that be a teabagger comment?!?!?!? ) ;>)
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. If your gas stove or heater has a rigid connection, check it
I learned that in Japan
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. And the same goes for the outside link to the main
thanks
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
37. Good point about the water mains. In the larger cities, the water mains
are well over a hundred years old. Baltimore has a water main break at least weekly, if not more often. Can't imagine the damage a quake could do to their infrastructure. Same for NY, Philly, Boston, etc.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. This goes thorugh the wire
every time Mexico City has a quake over 5.5. It is part of the emergency plan. So as part of it the general boil water order goes out as well.

I suspect many cities in the East Coast really do not have a quake plan, or they are dusting it as I type... if they have one. They are NOT that common.

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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Our county mayor has been tweeting faster than a rabid squirrel this afternoon...
He's been referencing the very things you have said to check. And has sent out several links to earthquake preparedness and to expect after shocks. I am pretty sure that we do not have any quake plans here (at least officially).

No alerts about water, yet. We have been requested to check for leaks.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Boil it or buy it
:-)
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Fuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
41. This east coaster slept through it. Had dental work done, took pill, fell asleep.
;)

Woke up and my kids were all excited about it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-23-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Those are the best quakes
:hi:

When Northride went off, I slept through it (after a night of EMS I was tired)

Mom called all hysterical...

Ah mutual aid.
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