Obama' "job' proposals - lololololol

[placton]

what a tool!

"The steps the president wants Congress to take include extending payroll tax cuts for another year, passing three free trade agreements and enacting patent reform. All of the measures are proposals the president has called for previously."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/06/obama-jobs-plan-president-pushes-proposals_n_920082.html


screwing social security - CHECK

sending jobs overseas - CHECK

helping big corporations- CHECK

NO help for usa jobs - CHECK AND MATE

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. aka - Trickle down economics

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[hfojvt]

28. especially the first proposal

"Here's an analysis from Citizens for Tax Justice http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxcompromise2010.p...

12.1% of the payroll tax cut goes to those in the bottom 40%
26.7% of the payroll tax cut goes to those in the top 10%

27.1% goes to those in the bottom 60%
46.4% goes to those in the top 20%"

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/150

[Laelth]

2. Vomit. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[merbex]

3. He thinks we haven't heard this song before - umm we have and we don't like it n/t

[placton]

4. let me predict the total number of jobs these will create:

0, nada, none, zip

[JackDragna]

6. You're so wrong!

This will create plenty of jobs!

...in Malaysia, Bangladesh, China...

[placton]

7. jack - I stand corrected!

I bow before your superior wisdom

[durablend]

8. You people never loved him!

You just wait until you have president Romney (and no more Obama to kick around anymore!!!!!!!)!!!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

24. Looks more like he never loved us. lol

[Creideiki]

35. It just doesn't read true without this:

:cry:

[Joe the Revelator]

9. The pay roll tax cut is pretty fuckng progressive....

It puts money into the hands of those making under 116k who shoulder the major burden of fundiing ss.

[dgibby]

10. Doesn't it defund SS,

or am I mistaken?:shrug:

[Inuca]

14. Not "defund"

reduces the amount of money that goes in, yes. But it's meant to be temporary. I am no economist, I have no idea if it's a good or a bad idea, but it certainly it is not meant to "defund SS" in the sense that Ryan's plan is meant to defund Medicare.

[dgibby]

18. I guess "defund" is the wrong word,

but what I'm trying to say is that this will now tie SS to the national debt, thereby giving credence to the argument that SS is contributing to the debt and must be privatized. We will no longer be able to say that SS is self-funded and doesn't contribute to the debt.

[Inuca]

19. I don;t understand what you mean

It's still self funded, just that for a while there are fewer funds going into it.

[dgibby]

21. Which would mean that funds will have to be borrowed

from the general fund, thereby making SS no longer self-funded.

[indurancevile]

53. not borrowed. REPAID. The general fund owes the SS trust fund $2.6 trillion.

[jeff47]

33. If there's fewer funds going into it, and they're warning about being unable to pay for future

benefits.....

Defund is the right word.

[SusanaMontana41]

65. Temporary can mean permanent. See: USA Patriot Act. n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Depends on how you look at it I guess....it's not a full tax holiday....the rate is just lowered.

So working people can pocket more money.. Instead of 4 percent of every check going to ss, 2 percent goes and you keep the difference.


The reason this is a bigger benefit to the working class is because ss is only taken out of the first 116k someone makes in a year.

[Vanje]

32. It weakens SS

No matter how you look at it.
Not progressive.
This president does not have any progressive tools in his toolbox, only republican ideas and talking points.
Its a crying shame.

[BzaDem]

44. That is actually false (though apparently being false doesn't stop such comments from being posted

repeatedly).

It doesn't affect the SS trust fund by one dime. An equal amount from the general fund is transferred to the trust fund.

[BR_Parkway]

37. So a minimum wage 40 hour worker gets an extra $5.80/week? Hell

for most that won't even add a tank of gas each month.

[progressoid]

41. Hell, that won't even buy gas to your minimum wage job for one day.

[Mimosa]

56. A sandwich combo meal at Mickey D's or Arby's isn't good enough for you?

SNOB! :7

[BR_Parkway]

63. For the quality of that food, I'd prefer Ramen noodles - plus we're talking

about a totally fictional character here - and full time employed, 40 hour a week minimum wage worker? Most aren't going to get to 40 hours until they're bumping $9/hour - then it's time to call them an 'asst manager' and put them on salary (and 60+ hours a week)

[roguevalley]

40. as long as assholes are getting tax cuts and we are fucking around

pinching pennies from the poor this is shit and so it Obama. He knows what we really need to do but he won't do it. He doesn't give a damn. You need to know a person by what they do not what they say and he's willing to allow hunger for children in this country. Fuck it all and him too.

[bvar22]

27. The "temporary" Payroll Tax Holiday is a nail in the coffin of Social Security.

A REAL Democrat would be pushing for an INCREASE in the Payroll Tax (raise the cap),

PLUS

The "temporary payroll tax "Holiday", in addition to demeaning the funding of Social Security as something we can call a Fun Holiday on :party:
DIRECTLY connects the funding of Social Security to The Deficit,
legitimizing the Republican claims that it is part of the Deficit Problem.
Yes It Does!


Payroll Tax Holiday Directly Links SS to The Deficit


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed


"By their WORKS you will know them."

[Vanje]

31. Payroll taxcut comes straight out of social security budget

How progressive is that?

Someone we voted for has taken taxing the rich off the table.

[BzaDem]

45. False. The normal budget reimburses the SS budget for every penny. n/t

[Selatius]

59. There lies the problem. Using the General Fund to cover shortfalls in SS creates possible dependency

If the shortfalls become big enough, Republicans will gain more leverage in demanding "changes" to Social Security for the sake of keeping the General Fund trim. More immediately, however, Republicans could use the situation to demand that the tax holiday be extended over and over again, in effect making it permanent as long as Democrats yield the issue.

[hfojvt]

38. this is your idea of progressive?

12.1% of the payroll tax cut goes to those in the bottom 40%
26.7% of the payroll tax cut goes to those in the top 10%

27.1% goes to those in the bottom 60%
46.4% goes to those in the top 20%"



Looks to me like most of the money is going to the top.

That's pretty fucking regressive, IMO.

[Joe the Revelator]

42. Where do you get those numbers?

[hfojvt]

54. from Citizens for Tax Justice

table on page 3 http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxcompromise2010.pdf

[indurancevile]

52. oh, please. it puts more money into the hands of those making over $116K.

someone making $20K pays $1240/year at 6.2%
at 4.2% they get $400 back.

someone making 120K pays $7192 and gets $2320 back.

If the top 10% = people making $116 and over, and average income of the bottom 95% is $40K, then the top 10% is paying 23% of SS taxes & getting 23% of the cuts.

[Mimosa]

55. What about self-employed?

We don't seem to get any such breaks.

[Inuca]

11. It also includes

the plan he announced yesterday for helping veterans find jobs and pushing for infrastructure projects. The HuffPo article just forgot to mention these.

The president gave a list of specifics he'd like to see as we move forward as a nation:
Extend tax cuts for working and middle-class families
Tax credits for returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan
Continuing to support unemployment benefits
Cut red tape for inventors and entrepreneurs
Pass trade deals to open up Asian and South American markets to American-made goods
Put out-of-work construction workers back to work by loaning to companies that will work on rebuilding infrastructure
http://www.dailykos.com/

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. WHY IS OBAMA PASSING MORE TRADE AGREEMENTS TO LOSE US JOBS??? WHY? WHY? WHY?

What the hell is wrong with this man?

[loyalsister]

64. Exports are a good thing

He's talking about mutually beneficial trade agreements.

"A deal was reached this week to allow a Senate committee to begin debating the agreements with South Korea, Colombia and Panama. During a news conference Wednesday, Obama said the deals would improve sales of American autos abroad at a time when the Detroit-based companies have started to turn around their operations."

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/automobiles/169019-obama-trade-agreements-would-boost-auto-imports-

[Little Star]

13. Someone needs to stick a fork in the american people....

We're done!!

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[CleanGreenFuture]

17. Patent reform??? What the fucking fuck? Arrrrghhh! I've just about had ENOUGH of this sht!

[green prol]

20. Best way to "fix" Social Security/Medicare is to starve them

:sarcasm:

[JNinWB]

22. Explain exactly what Obama should support

And then explain, in detail, how he could pass those preferred programs over the recalcitrance of the House Teabaggers and the Senate filibusterers.

Points will be taken off for using the words "bully pulpit", "caves" and "threaten".

[Inuca]

26. Welcome to DU

Unfortunately what you are trying to do with your post above is a lost cause around here :-(. For a while at least.

[JoeyT]

29. Stop pushing shitty free trade agreements.

That doesn't take any political capital at all. It just requires him to stop sucking. It wouldn't create jobs, but it would slow the bleeding.

Want to know how the middle class and poor can vote against Democrats? Free trade agreements.

[jeff47]

34. Your philosophy of politics is completely wrong.

You don't start with what can pass. You start with what is right. Then you work your ass off to get as much of that as possible. And when you don't get everything you want today, you come back and try again tomorrow.

Under your theory, it was dumb to propose the New Deal, Great Society and Civil Rights Act. None of those had the votes when they were first proposed. Yet they happened, despite your claims that it's not possible.

Where does this stupid passivity come from? "Republicans won't roll over, so don't even try. And make sure nobody knows the Republicans are getting in the way. That wouldn't be bipartisan!".

[MouseFitzgerald]

43. Exactly

Political realities has nothing to do with ideology. Whats right has nothing to do with what can get through congress.

[BzaDem]

46. Have you noticed that the New Deal/Great Society/Civil Rights act were proposed when there were HUGE

Democratic majorities (in many cases triple digit majorities in the House, and in all cases a 2/3 majority in the Senate)?

I agree that someone's philosophy of politics is completely wrong. But are you sure it isn't yours?

[jeff47]

47. Did you notice that Democrats don't always vote with their leadership?

All 3 of those bills did not have the votes to pass when they were proposed, despite the strong majorities.

For example, you are arguing that the southern Democrats, who were massively racist, would vote for the Civil Rights Act to please LBJ. That didn't happen. In fact, they became Republicans because of that bill.

[Mimosa]

57. ^ Exactly right ^

But BzaDem won't believe it.

[BzaDem]

62. So let me get this straight. You are saying that today is somehow comparable to the time of FDR/LBJ,

even though you freely admit that the Republican party of that era was so much less fanatical than they are today, that they were willing to provide the deciding votes to pass those bills?

:crazy:

Do you really think that a single Republican today would have potentially voted for any of these things that people are blaming Obama for not passing? Really?

[hfojvt]

39. I would rather see him support something good that won't pass

than something crappy that will pass.

You scoff at the bully pulpit, but how did Bush pass his 2nd tax cuts? First, he proposed it in the SOTU, then he went on a tour around the country promoting it to hand-picked crowds as well as the local media (and also probably raising funds for Congressional and other candidates). It was passed after four months of this.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[Ichingcarpenter]

23. These are solutions for a broken and corrupt political and economic prevailing paradigm

Kuhn wrote that "Successive transition from one paradigm to another via revolution
is the usual developmental pattern of mature science." and I might add economic
and social thought.


Perhaps the greatest barrier to a paradigm shift, in some cases, is the reality
of paradigm paralysis: the inability or refusal to see beyond the current models of thinking

[L0oniX]

25. We are being shit on.

[Autumn]

30. "It's not the governments role to create jobs or prosperity."

Obama, just a few days ago.

[Mimosa]

58. Obama=Reagan + Bush

Autumn, I almost didn't believe Obama delivered a Reagan speech. I had to look it up. Here is video of Obama saying it. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruuZw9MYThw

[libmom74]

36. Why would I waste my

vote for these kinds of proposals? When is a real Democrat going to step up and run?

[Kablooie]

48. No Change! NO CHANGE AT ALL!

He's turning our country into the Twilight Zone episode, Eye of the Beholder.

[indurancevile]

50. Those are the 'jobs proposals?' OMG.

[defendandprotect]

51. kr

[OBlueDog]

60. The onlt Jobs being created for American's today

involves ending up as a worker, sitting in a cell 24/7 for 5-10 years, generating profits for the private prison industry in America.

[eShirl]

61. seriously, this is an example of the kinds of things we've scoffed at Republicans for

yet because this is a Democrat some folks are defending it

[Marrah_G]

66. He doesn't give a shit because none of this will effect HIS family

They will always be millionaires/billionaires.

So sick of every branch of government and if it were up to me every single one of them would be dropped naked and empty handed on a deserted island surrounded by giant man eating sharks.

Can you imagine if they actually had to WORK instead of living as parasites off the rest of humanity?

[L0oniX]

67. ***