I have a confession to make to all of you.

[William769]

I have always been a liberal Democrat on social issues & a middle of the road Democrat on fiscal issues.

I have been wrong. Middle of the road does NOT work (at least not in these times).

I am now running so far to the left and becoming a "flaming Liberal" on all issues, I never want to see the middle again.

[RKP5637]

1. One doesn't even have to move anymore, as everything slides far right, most

of us end up far left by not even moving!:)

[villager]

3. right -- the former *actual* "middle" is now sneeringly called "the far left"

Tragically, often by "Democrats" in positions of power...

[Faryn Balyncd]

64. Actually, Eisenhower Republicanism is now left of "the loony left".

[JHB]

99. We are all Eisenhower Socialists now...

;)

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[green prol]

85. The vast majority support socialism and liberal causes.

The people are with us on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, getting out of our endless wars, support for students,dealing with climate change/energy independance, keeping government out of our bedrooms, net neutrality, ending subsidies for bankers, oil companies and factory farms. They want to see justice done for financial crimes against America and a sence of fairness restored. They know that the trade deals have hurt our people and want job creation.
We are not the minority. Just consider how much money the oligarks have spent on brain washing, and still, the majority of Americans are with us. Keep standing tall and claim your values out loud and strong. :smoke:

[Autumn]

2. Nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and

dead armadillos. A book from Jim Hightower, the title sure does seem to fit. K/R

[RC]

59. The problem is we are on a divided highway.

Traffic on both sides of the doted stripe is going the same way.
The road going the other way is closed of repairs.

[CarmanK]

4. It's NOT MODERATE to be reasonable, patriotic and honorable!

Because someone is reasonable, is not an indication that they are moderate RIGHT OR LEFT. I am a progressive on social issues and have spent my adult life fighting for the well being of community, children and the sick. I am fiscally conservative, in that I want responsible use of my tax dollars and I expect my GOVT to be functional. But, have to admit, sometimes I have made the choice between paying a bill, and taking the kids to the BEACH and I took the kids to the beach. My point, EXTREMISM is WRONG, morally WRONG, whether RIGHT OR LEFT. Because, extremism denies equality and respect for all humans. EXTREMISM advocates violence, whether right or left in order to achieve goals: KKK or Greenpeace! EXTREMISM is not exclusive to right or left. The TPARTY is not really conservative. They ran on a platform of conservatism, patriotism, job creation and fiscal responsibility. They are hypocrites. Since the tparty hit the HOUSE, they have done nothing conservative or reasonable or representative of their constituents. They have tried to de-fund PP, pass laws against abortion and birth control, beat back the repeal of DADT. They have wasted taxpayer dollars to achieve personal objectives. WE ARE losing hundreds of millions of tax dollars every week that the FAA goes unfunded and yet the congress is headed home for a 5 week vacation while 4000 workers are furloughed and thousands of others idled because of interrupted construction projects. They have wasted precious time stalling doing anything for the economy, in order to make OBama fail. REASONABLENESS is not the equivalent of Middle of the ROAD, it is a sign of cooperation and respect for others and acknowledgement that one person does not know IT ALL!

[JDPriestly]

46. Why do you classify Greenpeace as extreme left?

I think they are extreme environmentalists, and many on the left are environmentalists, but the environmental movement is in its essence about conserving our environment. Is it left or is it right or is it neutral?

[defendandprotect]

52. RW has gained control over America via rw political violence ....

that is extremism --

and it is not on the left --

Most of the domestic terrorits -- the majority of it -- is by rw groups connected to

Christianity/religion --


No -- the left has not killed leaders all over the world -- nor invited Nazis in --

(See Operation Paperclip) -- nor faked wars -- and please don't mention LBJ's

"Gulf of Tonkin" because LBJ was part of the conspiracy to kill JFK.


Our CIA has taken money from right wing groups of any kind -- including KKK and Nazis --

They have financed rightwing members of Congress -- those like Sen. Strom Thurmond and

Rep. Gerry Ford.


Nixon got where he did because he was solicited by RW elites like Prescott Bush --

they hired him to be their candidate destroyer -- and when Nixon asked for $50,000 a year

over his Congressional salary, they gave it to him! Obviously, he was worth it!


Oftimes, our Federal education budget contained money for the CIA -- as much as 50%

of the funds!


And neither is the Green Party "extremist" -- you're making the same "blame them all"

mistake that John Stuart made earlier this year!


The rightwing can only rise on violence -- and we've had 50 years and more of it by the

RW -- in plain sight.

[TheKentuckian]

53. Comparing Greenpeace to the Klan to set up a false equivalence piece

is fucking disgusting. I mean about as fucked up as can be.

The fucking Klan??? Maybe you can explain how that works.

[kenfrequed]

84. That is repugnant

There is no comparison. Greenpeace has never employed violence and is not a disgusting racist organization. Any analogy of them is taking false equivalency to a comedic and revoltingly absurd extreme.

[marions ghost]

70. I agree that we're in a mess

but I think it's wrong to equate right and left. The Left has not had political power for a long time (if ever really) while the Right has driven us into the sinkhole we're in right now. Have you not realized there can be no reasonable middle of the road compromise with these people? :shrug: The teabaggers have NO respect for Democrats and NO willingness to compromise. After all we've seen recently how can you not see the futility of what you are advocating?

The Left is not trying to take us back to the Dark Ages. Big diff.

Greenpeace is one of the few organizations that you can depend on to tell us the truth about environmental issues. Take a look at what Greenpeace Japan is doing right now.

You're not even giving the Left a chance, while you push out the unrealistic "middle way" rhetoric. :eyes: hmmmmm

[zanana1]

88. If you've lived long enough to remember the McCarthy Era....

You realize that we're going through something similar to that kind of philosophy. If the left becomes silent, fear will set in and the McCarthyism of the 2,000's will be around for a very long time. In my opinion, you have to match the rightwing's machine with a strong leftwing machine. If they yell, we have to yell louder. In the 1950's, liberals were afraid to speak up for fear of government reprisal. I know an old French-Canadian-American who used to have to have his Socialist newsletter mailed to him from Canada, and the U.S. Post Office often stopped his mail. Liberals went through outright harassment and oppression. (Think of the Hollywood "Blacklist").

[marions ghost]

98. I'm all for the left not being silent

but I don't kid myself that we have any real power in this country. We don't have big money and we don't even have a solid place in the Democratic party. The only thing we have is numbers. There are quite a lot of us.

I'll go you one better than the McCarthy era. I think we're living in the Medieval Dark Ages, never mind all the electronica at out fingertips.

But at this point I am tired of fighting, yelling, engaging in pitched battles just to try to get something approaching honest responsible enlightened government.

The thugs have hijacked the country. And I certainly don't blame that all on Obama. But he's just not prepared to be as ruthless as they are. He believes in something that is no longer working. He has to as that's his job.

I am tired of fighting for rights that should be basic. If we want to ever become a better country, we have to stop doing this, because it's destroying people's lives and preventing us from putting our efforts into better places.

[zanana1]

101. What do you suggest?

I'm not being snarky. I really want to know.

[marions ghost]

103. off top of my head

In the immediate future I'm watching Wisconsin. If they can turn it back then maybe some other states can. And take it national.

We need to support ANY and ALL news & opinion media that are trying to bring truth to the dark hole we are in.

I guess I don't have organizing solutions as much as I have analysis of the pit we are in. Progressives are truly disenfranchised and unrepresented.

We have to deal with the sense of victimization and powerlessness that many feel--the realization that we are no longer a true democracy. People need to understand that we really are being held hostage by the most ruthless element of this society. The "owners" are seeking our complete exploitation. But coming out of deep denial is hard. Since liberals don't have one religion/church to take advantage of, we have to create more secular support groups. And don't put labels on it so you attract people who are willing to think beyond their usual political affiliations. Victims support groups is the model that comes to mind. I think we have to address the psychology of the downtrodden and oppressed. And we also have to figure out--as a nation--how to get away from this adversarial, winner take all, nasty strongarm Rethuglican politics. Or we will be living in a fascist state.

We have to be more creative because this is unprecedented. I don't think the McCarthy era really comes close from what I know about it. This is a hijacking. This is a monstrous theft and the turning back of everything we care about in this country. This is an Emergency. So I think it needs emergency actions, not just fun little meet-ups. Not just another GOTV effort. To use the war lingo, we need a surge. They need to hear us loud and clear.

[zanana1]

104. Supporting (and creating) news & opinion media...

I think that's the ticket. The Right Wing has successfully taken over the press and the airwaves and brainwashed the American public. If you want to know what's going on in the world, you need the media. If you're an average American, you take them at their word because they have a monopoly on information. Information is power.

[marions ghost]

105. So what about

the fact that we have no political power and we don't know how that can change?

Media is an important thing, yes, we agree on that--but it's still very passive and people only end up ranting on boards and blogs. And the PTB just ignore all that.

[Action]

79. Vote to save the country from repubs

You make a lot of sense, except that repubs do not come from your premise at all.

They want total power. They don't believe in the common good. They don't believe in doing what is best for the country. They want a repub Christian nation. They want us to be low wage workers and like it.

And for those of you who think you will not support Obama and the Dems in 2012: See how that worked out in 2010!!!!!



Repubs are either very very very rich (billionaire) or total ignorant fools!

[kenfrequed]

81. The enemies langauge

Why even use the word conservative? The first democrat who stated he was "fiscally conservative" should be buried under a mountain of unsold George Will books as punishment. You may as well say "Democrats are dumb with money."

Moreover it excuses and encourages austerity economics and the Tax-cuts-ubber-alles mentality that makes up much of the socioeconomic discourse in American politics.

[rhett o rick]

90. You are fighting a straw-man. It is quite obvious the OP isnt advocating extremism.

Far left and flaming liberal are not extreme. If you think so, give us some examples.

I dare you, no I double dare you to give us examples of how you differ from the "far left" on issues.

I have made this dare to so-called centrists over and over and not once has one responded. This makes me suspicious of their motives for these type of responses, calling out the "far left".

Come on tell us what "far left" means to you.

[bowens43]

5. social issues are fiscal issues.......nt

[socialist_n_TN]

39. Word! It's all based on the system

and interconnected. EVERYTHING boils down to the evils of capitalism.

[ejbr]

6. Say five Hail Marys and ... n/t

[jtuck004]

12. ...then go vote for the people who pursue _your_ agenda. /nt

[ejbr]

17. and there you have it! n/t

[dana_b]

18. and drink five bloody Marys?

:9

[Cleita]

7. Flaming liberal these days used to be middle of the road

fifty years ago.

[BlueDemKev]

9. So damn much has changed in the last 45 years....

...mainly, the globalization of the economy. Money first, country second. One good thing the Cold War did is it united a diverse group of countrymen as "Americans". Now, we're just a factionalized society. And the factions cannot agree on anything.

[defendandprotect]

54. Globalization couldn't have happened without our elected officials selling themselves....

and our government to corporations/elites --

This has happened because -- as our Founders told us -- "not all men are honest men" -- !!

We have a few problems that's for sure --

The dollar bill which permits the buying and selling of government, nature, people --

and the transference of legitimate power from the people to the hands of illegitimate

corporations/elites. We need to find a way to uninvent the dollar bill -- and change

this scheme of wealth vs masses.


We have also never -- since time began -- figured out what to do about violent men among us.

Was watching "Johnny Belinda" the other night -- and I think Stephen McNally's character --

the rapist -- is the perfect example of that in a small community.

Those people who wake up every day seeking control over others for their own benefit.

[Horse with no Name]

38. By the standards today...Eisenhower was a socialist. n/t

[whathehell]

44. Precisely....The country has moved SO far right, I think Dick Nixon could pass as a "liberal". n/t

[defendandprotect]

57. Keep in mind this was planned -- and violence brought the rw to power ....

Recall AG John Mitchell telling us -- even as he was going down --

"This country is going to move so far to the right it will make your head spin" --

This has all been accomplished by thuggery and violence --


Also recall that Cheney reinforced that idea with his comment --

"The RW creates the reality -- and the rest of you live it" --


This has all been created by dozens of fake rw think tanks --

by a dozen rw fake movements -- from Christian Coalition which the GOP gave start up

funding for -- and Dobson's group financed by Richard Scaife -- and Bauer's group by

other rw wealthy --

to the GOPs/"pro-life" movement funded by the White Supremacist groups/Christian

We had Koch Bros. DLC harbored within the Democratic Party for 20 years -- infiltrating

and influencing the party -- its agenda -- and its candidates -- even its presidential candidates!

We have the GOP/T-baggers -- again funded by the Koch Bros. --

Koch Family/John Birch Society goes back to the JFK years -- and JFK responded to them ably!!

Think we have to resurrect his words!

At the time that they killed RFK, 50% of the LAPD was John Birchers!


At the time of JFK coup, 50% of the Dallas Police Force were KKK --


GOP/NRA -- they radicalized the NRA and used it to target not only liberals and moderates

in the Democratic Party -- but liberals and moderates in their own party!


On and on -- from one fake group to another --

It's a Hollywood Sound Stage Set --


Which is why the RW has to control every bit of information --- all of our press --

Any bit of truth -- any minor challenge to them -- is a huge threat -- it's like a

pebble hitting a mirrow -- shatters their myths, lies.

[BlueDemKev]

8. I feel your pain....

...I'm very moderate on fiscal issues as well. But seen how the Republicans have been taken over by the tea-baggers, I'm starting to look at making a mad dash to the left myself!

:yoiks:

[socialist_n_TN]

40. Join us in the Marxist end of the pool.......

:) The more of us there are, the more they get scared and give up stuff.

[BlueDemKev]

95. I don't think I can move QUITE that far.....

....I get nervous when I can't touch the bottom. :)

[Snotcicles]

10. Welcome Will. nt

[bigwillq]

11. K and R

:bounce: :hi: :hug:

[Maven]

13. K/R

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Just stay right where you are and you'll be a flaming lefty soon enough.

I had the same position in '72 - social liberal, fiscal moderate - and today I'm a socialist, without changing my positions a bit.

[JDPriestly]

47. Same here.

[TriMera]

15. K&R. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. "Moderation in temper is always a virtue; moderation in principle is always a vice." Tom Paine

[Le Taz Hot]

77. Great quote!

I'd never read that before. Thanks for sharing it.

[Chorophyll]

19. Nice to have you with us.

:hi:

[William769]

20. Glad to be here.

:hi:

[lumpy]

21. Labels don't alter the political workings in Congress. Or

anything else for that matter.

[William769]

22. Then why use them?

[quakerboy]

30. I think I get your point, but I dont think its true

labels do make a difference. If Obama labeled himself a Republican, that would drastically alter how a lot of things work. If the Dino caucus swapped parties, that would have a huge effect on how congress worked. If 4 democratic senators swapped labels to become Socialists, again, it would play out with massive ripple effects.

or to come at it differently, if labels did not have political effect, the Republican sound machine that we call the "media" would not make such heavy use of them.

[Nye Bevan]

23. What did you think the highest marginal income tax rate should be when you were a centrist?

And what do you should think it be now that your views have evolved?

[indepat]

24. The "middle" is now pretty damn far right

:patriot:

[pleah]

25. I am a proud "flaming" liberal.

:smoke:

[Martin Eden]

26. You haven't moved. The goal poasts have. n/t

[Citizen Worker]

27. Welcome William 769. I like to quote a good friend who says, "I'm worse than any liberal you've

ever seen." By the way, this friend attended Obama's inauguration with his youngest son and said the following: "we stood there for eight hours, didn't move, didn't go to the bathroom, we waited very orderly with over one million other people who came to celebrate the election of the first Black to the presidency, as we should have. But the people didn't make any demands on our first Black president and when the ceremony was over we all left, quietly and orderly." No demands were made, that was our first mistake.

[bear425]

28. Do we know each other?

I'm in So. FL.

[October]

29. What a refreshingly honest post.

I've been running more to left since 2008, myself. :) Honestly -- the middle didn't used to be so bad. Times have changed.

Peace.

[MissDeeds]

31. Welcome to the far side!

:hi: :toast:

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. YAY! Another Fire Breathing Progressive! Welcome! We need you.

:hi:

practice your breathing.... :grr::grr::grr:

[horseshoecrab]

33. Hey William769...

Howdy!


:fistbump:

:patriot:


horseshoecrab

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Hi, welcome to the club

back in the dark ages I could be considered center... these days I am a flaming commie.

Realize I never changed, the party though... it is receding in the horizon

[grasswire]

35. you been RADICALIZED

..and if we stand in solidarity, no one can stop the power of the people!!

[DeSwiss]

36. K&R

"One of the basic laws of politics is Action Moves Away from the Center. The middle
of the road is only popular when nothing is happening." ~Hunter S. Thompson

[Horse with no Name]

37. Cmon over. You'll llike it over here.

Oh, I got called a republican today!! Can you imagine THAT?

[socialist_n_TN]

41. My take is that the best recruiters for Marxism

are the capitalists. As another poster said (and as I've seen too) more and more of us are being radicalized.

[defendandprotect]

58. Capitalism is dead -- we just haven't buried it yet -- !!

[deaniac21]

42. hubub, hubub, hubub....

[Stinky The Clown]

43. I completely understand . . . . as I wrote here, some time ago. "Radicalization of a Clown"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8701851

[SusanaMontana41]

45. A flaming Liberal? You mean one who supports Social Security?

That's what we're called these days.

[Jim_Shorts]

48. I have a metaphor that works for me

We drive down a divided highway every day and every day another car coming at us keeps inching in our lane. Being responsible and pragmatic we move to the right and are soon driving on the shoulder, this just emboldens the other car who now wants to play chicken. We are now trying to drive in the middle of a field and our tires are going flat and our car is beat to shit. Under these circumstances, I don't see any other way but to get back on the road and drive in their lane and try to hit them and yes bad shit might happen.

By this I mean we have to be proactive, and pursue a nut-case left agenda, like demand raising the top tax bracket to 90% and demanding single payer health care ect... This is what FDR did and anything short of this means we will continue to be steam rolled.

The repukes had just as much to lose if the debt ceiling wasn't raised but dems rolled over and now they know how take big things from us. We are going to have to fight sooner or later. Like Cenk Uygur always says "for gods sake fight, even if you lose ,you have to fight"

[Stumbler]

49. Yes, yes, yes!

I'm in the same boat.

[rdubwiley]

50. Welcome to the dark side

I'm glad that more people are realizing the myth of moderation.

[WheelWalker]

63. In my experience, moderation furthers. nt

[defendandprotect]

51. As Howard Zinn made clear -- "You can't be neutral on a moving train" --

and that's what politics is --

You're either with the left or the right -- there's no middle.


Lots of saddness and suffering in this country already -- and imagine there is going

to be one hell of a lot more -- !!


Thom Hartmann said today that we'd lose 1 million more jobs by the end of next year --


And, without new stimulus -- imo, they're going to cement what is already a depression!!!


Thanks for letting us know!!

[WheelWalker]

61. You have ends with no middle?

Now that's an explanation of String Theory I hadn't heard. What I do know, from experience with string, is that loose ends inevitably produce knotty situations. With actual string. Almost every time.

[defendandprotect]

66. It's a two way street --

What do you see moving in the middle of the street?

Nothing!

[WheelWalker]

68. Still, I expect that at the middle of the street (however difficult to negotiate) lies the path.

The ends are useful only to define the middle.

[defendandprotect]

69. Where is the middle on the Human Rights Manifesto?

Everyone entitled to food, shelter, clothing -- medical care --

Should United Nations have said "some food, some shelter, some clothing, some medical care" -- ?


Where is the middle on human rights -- ?

Reproductive freedom for women but not ERA -- ?

Allow gays into the military -- but don't let them marry -- ?


Where is the middle on safety nets -- ?

Enough to stay alive, but not to actually enjoy life?


Where is the middle on public education -- ?

What's the price of ignorance -- ?


Where's the middle on Global Warming -- ?

Follow the oil and coal industry and let the planet burn up --

Or nationalize our oil industry -- stand up to the MIC/CIA -- and fight

for the planet?

[krispos42]

55. Welcome to the club

Virtually none of economic possibilities that are even on the mental horizons of the politicians will keep this country strong and make the economy work for the bottom 99%.

[fadedrose]

56. R, me too..

[kestrel91316]

60. I used to be the same. But the older I get, the lefter I lean.

Oh, the folly of youth!

[WheelWalker]

62. The older I get

the more surprised I am that I can even care.

[WheelWalker]

65. Recommended for further discussion.

[iamthebandfanman]

67. welcome to the club!

considered myself the same until deans defeat in the 2004 primary! took the hard dive into the deep end of left now and loving it!

[gauguin57]

71. Welcome into the flames, William!!!

It's nice and warm here!

[Kalidurga]

72. I took a break from political news for a couple of years...

when I looked up I had discovered that I too had become a flaming liberal. The teatards scared me to move further left, I was more of a fiscal conservative, but nuts to that. Tax the rich stop the insane bloating of defense and for petes sake why is Social Security on the table for cuts?

[florida08]

73. "welcome to the party pal"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkyskI13KOs

[disillusioned73]

82. lol, I knew that's what it was..

still watched it though... classic.

[5X]

74. +

[Pharaoh]

76. That is why they have demonized

the word liberal and socialist, because the capitalists are terrified of us waking up to the fact that there are millions of us and just a few of them. We hold the power, we just have not realized it yet.

[disillusioned73]

78. Welcome... to fantasy island (so we're told)

I discovered I was a flaming, militant, pony & rainbow kind of liberal/progressive here at DU, of all places.

:beer:

[rbnyc]

80. + 1 (nt)

[Doctor_J]

83. And if you didn't cheer the debt ceiling debacle you're not even a "real Dem"

that's the story anyway.

[southernyankeebelle]

86. Well don't feel so bad. I come to the conclusion am a social democratic because

I believe we pay taxes and our taxes should help the citizens in the states they live in. I like government providing jobs for people. The private agencies and steeling our jobs and money.

[emald]

87. wayyyyyyy left for me.......and getting very redical.

[Liberalynn]

89. When I was 18

I was moderate, during my 20's-40's I was left, now as I approach 50 I would probably be considered to be to the far left but only because the goal post has been moved so much.

I agree with the people saying its because the moderates of both parties have moved so far to the right they are making us look that way.

[bertman]

91. Welcome to the Far Left side of the aisle, William769. Glad to have you here. REC. nt

[rhett o rick]

92. Damn flaming liberals. They want decent health care, to save SS and Medicare,

to end the immoral wars, repeal of the Patriot Act, closure of Gitmo, the end to rendition and torture, tax money spent for infrastructure instead of wasteful defense spending.

Hey wait...........I must be one of them.

[Silent3]

93. I'm nowhere near using the Marx avatar or sporting a Che Guevara T-shirt...

...but simply wanting to see reasonable progressive taxation, medical care for all, a strong social safety net, to cut corporate tax loopholes that make no sense, and to have enough regulation to avoid consumer fraud, predatory lending, and environmental catastrophe makes me a flaming lefty these days.

[JTFrog]

94. Lol

:eyes:

[craigmatic]

96. I can relate. I started off as centrist in the late 90's but now I believe in socialism.

Centrism has never worked because it gets us nowhere.

[gateley]

97. I think the middle of the road has moved to the right, so you're

right where you belong!

Actually, I think what the Dems propose re: fiscal stuff is pretty MOTR - it's basic math. The Republicans have just brainwashed the masses into believing we "don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem".

[ElsewheresDaughter]

100. welcome to my little corner of the asylum....

nothing but dead crittters in the middle of the road!

[Shandris]

102. Can I hang out on this side even if I think violence is acceptable from time to time?

Particularly in your own defense? :)

I've got some cocoa! It's around...here...somewhere...