Defense spending cuts?! Y'all are killing me here.

[Cerridwen]

Do you actually think that the likes of blackwater/xe, halliburton(or however it's calling itself), ge, off the books "military budgeds", et. al., are those who will lose out when "defense spending cuts" kick in?

Well, you're wrong. Here is what will be cut if "defense spending cuts" ever kick in:

Troops' pay and/or COLAs,
Troops' VA benefits,
Troops' housing benefits,
Troops' spouses' benefits,
Troops' housing,
etc.

Defense spending cuts means simply, "we will cut those things provided for our troops in order to insure the contracts of the MIC".

[villager]

1. unrecc'd by the "make the mean true thing go away!" crowd...

n/t

[Cerridwen]

3. :D If I was trying to be popular, I might give a shit.

:D

I've spent my time here trying to educate people on what happens in politics and how it impacts those of us in the three-dimensional world rather than those gamers who live in the two-dimensional world.

So be it.

Thank you for your reply (and attempt to recommend?). :hi:

[SidDithers]

19. Unrec 'cause the very first fucking reply in the thread is whining about unrec...nt

Sid

[Cerridwen]

22. You should *always* punish people for the actions of those over whom they

have no control.

How very...conservative-minded of you.

[villager]

24. increasingly, Sid your first reply in many threads is to comment on such comments

"comment" being what you refer to as a "whine," when it disagrees with you

[Cerridwen]

30. Aw, villager, you must cut him some slack.

He never got to be the hall monitor he wanted to be.

Now he gets to live out his dreams on the internet.

*sigh*

Isn't that just PEACHY!?!?

[villager]

33. Cerridwen, are you posting outside of class *without a pass* again!?

;-)

[Cerridwen]

36. Every chance I get.

:rofl:

;)

[Forkboy]

38. Like you weren't going to unrec it anyways.

:rofl:

[girl gone mad]

41. Recced because SidDithers complained that..

"the very first fucking reply in the thread is whining about unrec"

[The Doctor.]

2. You might be right.

But we'll just have to see if we get there.

[Cerridwen]

5. It has always been thus.

Some of us know that.

[The Doctor.]

11. They've skimped on contracters as well.

Otherwise we wouldn't have had so many problems with body armor and vehicles.

[Cerridwen]

20. They skimped on the troops and what they required the "contracters"

to supply.

"War is a Racket"

[Leopolds Ghost]

42. Not to fear, WH stated in the press release that the trigger provisions are meant to be unacceptable

Meaning the defense cuts, the sweeteners for the progressive Dems, etc. all included in a trigger that is merely going to be used as a stick to force Congress to vote for whatever the Commission comes up with to "reform" Social Security

(they won't be allowed to amend it).

Obama will campaign against the "trigger" cuts, WARNING Dems to vote for the Commission plan OR ELSE the trigger cuts -- defense and all -- will take place.

The White House has already SAID they will do this.

NO Dem will vote to allow these cuts to go into effect.

They are being set up as an unacceptable alternative to Social Security reform.

And progressive activists are once again buying a bill of goods hook line and sinker.

"We included your provisions in a bill that was never intended to pass. We used your provisions as a threat to get Dems to vote for a bill you consider unacceptable by threatening them that instead your preferred bill would pass. That means we tried and fought for your provisions!"

[LAGC]

4. We may need another Bonus Army rally on Washington.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

[Cerridwen]

7. Thank you! so much for bringing that additional lesson in history here.

Did you know, once upon a time; lost in the mists of time, that soldiers were buried in unmarked graves as the soldiers were considered as just so much canon fodder?

Yeah. We're going there again. :(

[gkhouston]

6. Actually, I was thinking they'll cut research funding. n/t

[Cerridwen]

10. Good point! I missed that in my OP. I agree with you that that will also be

another cut.

Some of the psych research on troops is very enlightening...and frustrating. "They"'ve learned how to "play" us.

[gkhouston]

15. Supercomputers. I'm betting they'll go right on doing the work

but it will be funded out of a bottomless invisible NSA budget.

[Cerridwen]

23. I hope you're correct.

Though, I doubt seriously their findings will ever see the light of day.

[SpartanDem]

8. What politican is going to get on tv and say let's cut troop pay?

put down the pipe

[Cerridwen]

13. If you believe they say what they mean and mean what they say,

I'm not the one who needs to put down the pipe.

Welcome to the three-dimensional world. It looks nothing like the political world of binary thinking.

[SpartanDem]

16. I know enough

that anyone suggest such a thing will be publicly flambeed.

[Cerridwen]

21. Which is why they will never publicly say so.

It happens behind the scenes.

[indurancevile]

44. they won't come out and say it. they'll say the opposite, and do it.

lots of ways to do it covertly so most people don't catch on. same way reagan cut social security, same way they're getting ready to cut medicare.

i was around when they cut medical benefits to vets -- i heard an earful from betrayed-feeling vets. it happened & didn't end any politicians' careers i know of.

[EFerrari]

9. Rec to 0

[Cerridwen]

14. Surprise! Or not.

:D

:hi:

[EFerrari]

25. You make an excellent point.

:hi:

[Cerridwen]

28. .

:rofl:

:D

[Horse with no Name]

12. Absolutely correct.

And, that hammer that cost $50k? Well, they will just charge us $25k...THAT is how they will cut.

[Cerridwen]

18. There was a great episode on "West Wing" about that.

I have no problem with spending, what appears to be, excessive amounts of money for specialized tools. What I do have a problem with is leaving pallets of money around for certain types of people to raid and claim. I do have a problem with charging excessive amounts for run of the mill tools and fussy bits.

The MIC has made a "killing" (pun intended) by upcharging taxpayers (i.e. the US gov't) for things not specialized.

[Modern_Matthew]

17. Good. Maybe the military won't be so enticing when it pays minimum wage. nt

[Cerridwen]

31. In a perfect world, that would be great.

In this world, some people have to rely on serving in the military to make a career.

I do not begrudge them that.

I do begrudge those who would exploit that reality at the expense of those who have few or no other options.

[JoeyT]

45. It will still be enticing to many.

It's not like there are a whole lot of other jobs around, and most of the ones that are around pay minimum wage and have a ton of competition.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. So then we shouldn't cut defense spending?

That sounds like George W. Bush's when he kept arguing that Democrats can't raise taxes on just rich people because rich people will have the accountants find loopholes to get them out of paying, so it will just be raising taxes on everyone else.

[Cerridwen]

27. Ahhhh, ya got me! That's exactly what I said,

in an alternate reality known as conservative mind.

Oh, wait! No, that's not what I said at all. I'd re-type it for you, but I type about 70 wpm and so I'm not capable of slowing it down enough for you to understand.

Instead, I strongly suggest you take an online course in reading comprehension and another online course in holding that jerking knee.

Good Luck!

[JVS]

29. Let that be a warning to people that joining up is a bad idea.

[Cerridwen]

34. Some have few or no other options.

That is the reality "we" have created.

Upthread I note that I don't begrudge those who have to make that choice that is no choice.

I despise those who would exploit those who have to make that "choice".

[BzaDem]

32. Military pay, veterans benefits, etc are all exempt from the trigger. So that is not where the cuts

will come from.

[Cerridwen]

35. On paper. And the reality?

The reality is there are ways to make cuts "trickle down" to those with "boots on the ground".

If you are not aware of that, please stay out of politics.

[suffragette]

40. Looks like some interesting language going on here

regarding "across the board cuts" vs "programs."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/post/veterans-groups-get-white-house-assurances-on-debt-agreement/2011/08/01/gIQAlVjknI_blog.html

“If the trigger takes place, veterans benefits and compensation will be safe from across the board cuts,” said Joseph R. Chenelly, who represented the Disabled American Veterans at the meeting

“If what we heard was accurate, that veterans would be safe, we’re happy about that,” Chenelly added.

But he said the group remains concerned about what programs might be targeted for cuts by the special committee. “We’re anxious to see how that is assembled,” Chenelly said.



Hmm, that could still potentially mean cuts to programs that provide disability benefits to vets, such as the one Alan Simpson singled out last year.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/09/01/116812/alan-simpson-veterans/

Now, Simpson has turned his focus to a different topic: veterans receiving disability benefits as a result of being exposed to Agent Orange in the Vietnam War. Speaking to the press, Simpson complained that these benefits run “contrary to efforts to control federal spending,” and even went as far as to say that “the irony” is that “the veterans who saved this country are now, in a way, not helping us to save the country in this fiscal mess”:

The system that automatically awards disability benefits to some veterans because of concerns about Agent Orange seems contrary to efforts to control federal spending, the Republican co-chairman of President Barack Obama’s deficit commission said Tuesday.

~~~

Given that the VA estimates that providing care for veterans exposed to Agent Orange would cost only $67 billion over the next decade, it is difficult to imagine why Simpson would see the program as prime for cost-cutting. If the deficit co-chair is really serious about cutting waste out of the government and tackling the deficit, there are far more attractive targets. Earlier this year, Rep. Barney Frank’s (D-MA) Sustainable Defense Task Force identified nearly $1 trillion in waste that can be cut from the defense budget over the next ten years simply by eliminating outdated Cold War-era programs.
Meanwhile, as the Center for Economic and Policy Research demonstrates with its Health Care Budget Calculator, if the United States were to move to a more efficient health care system — which could be done partly by offering an efficient Medicare-style insurance plan to all Americans, which commission member Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) advocates for — like those of our Canadian and European neighbors, our debt would virtually disappear over time.


I bolded the word program and threw in the last paragraph from that article since it still, a year later, shows there are much more effective ways of addressing the budget issue, as Schakowsky constantly pointed out last year.

[EFerrari]

37. Pentagon Not a Debt Ceiling Loser

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1639452

[Cerridwen]

39. I'm "surprised"! You "surprised"?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

LOL

[EFerrari]

47. Amy's headline today, Wall Street and the Pentagon Emerge Victorious

on Debt Deal
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/2/after_months_of_partisan_wrangling_wall

[Angleae]

43. Troops pay & COLAs are by will of congress, not DoD.

VA benefits also aren't under DoD as they are a seperate agency. The DoD can reduce total personnel as they have done in the past but cannot cut their pay without consent of congress.

[blkmusclmachine]

46. +1. The troops (small guys) will have to absorb all the cuts. You can count on it.

n/t