Nader is on Olbermann talking about an Obama primary challenge

[ncpmd]

He talked about an initiative being launched in the next couple of days where 100 progressive leaders are being asked to join in an effort leading to a progressive primary challenger against Obama. BUT, he stressed TWICE that the goal of the initiative is NOT TO actually try to BEAT HIM in the primary but just to get progressive issues discussed and debated during the primary.

I want a FOR REAL progressive candidate...this "pretend" candidate strategy feels like another slap in the face.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Go away, Ralph.

[popsicle ricky]

18. What does Ralph say that you disagree with?

[TheDebbieDee]

31. I can't speak for Ocelot but Nader getting into the race

race threatens to split the Dem vote. The split, in addition to newly legislated voter ID requirements in some states may guarantee that we are stuck with another repuke.

BTW, welcome to DU!

[Creideiki]

67. That's easy

Ralph is saying to put away your Obama Idol and Incense Kits and start actually working toward pulling the Democrats back from the Right.

I'm too poor to ever have gotten the Obama Idol and Incense Kit, so clearly, I'm just a traitor to the cause and NEVER REALLY LOVED HIM!!!!!

[BlueDemKev]

77. That there is NO difference between Obama and the tea-baggers....

...just like there was NO difference between Gore and Bush!


FLORIDA 2000

Bush 2,912,790 votes
Gore 2,912,253 votes
Nader 97,488 votes

[rosesaylavee]

20. +1000

[roguevalley]

57. Ralph can go take a hike. The bastard won't show his financials.

He talks out of both sides of his ass. Show your porfolio, you slagger or go jump.

[rosesaylavee]

63. The size of his ego has always surprised me

-- that and his substantial following here on DU. Not sure what he adds to the political discourse other than just another option on the ballot - which has NOT worked to anyone's benefit so far.

[bluestate10]

51. Let a rash in the nether regions, Ralph does not go away without strong

medication. That medication is ignoring that damned fool.

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Is Nader a registered Democrat?

:rofl:

[BlueDemKev]

78. No, he's a registered Naderite

It's all about "me, myself, and I." :eyes:

[HipChick]

3. Yeah....he did so well the last time.....

[KittyWampus]

39. Certainly did well getting lots of money from Republicans

[bluestateguy]

4. Nader is not and has not been a Democrat for many years

So he really has no standing to decide who the party nominates for anything.

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. He needs a progressive CONGRESS

Ralph is pissing up a tree. Blue Dogs killed 2009/10 legislation. Had we had a progressive congress, we would have seen more progressive legislation.

[Creideiki]

69. The filibuster killed 2009/10 legislation

The House passed tons of progressive legislation (Health INSURANCE, not "care", reform not withstanding).

The inability to get even ONE "moderate Republican" (Paging Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins) to split with their party on anything while the conservative Democrats would split from the Democratic Party is why close to 450 pieces of progressive legislation died in the Senate. So what did Harry Reid do? Nothing.

Ultimately, the problem is that we don't have a senator from Louisiana, we have a senator from Exxon, another from Haliburton, another from Goldman Sachs, another from United Healthcare. Unless and until we can educate our fellow Americans on propaganda techniques, it will be very easy for money to buy elections.

Oh, and someone in the Democratic Party seriously needs to work on the bumper sticker marketing. Let's start with "tax fairness" and work from there.

[FarCenter]

6. The same Ralph Nader who elected George W Bush?

That worked well....

[Exilednight]

14. Florida and the SC elected Bush. It wasn't Nader's fault. There were several other left leaning

candidates on the Fl ballot who had more than enough votes to put Gore over the top. Centrists just like to scapegoat Nader.

[elocs]

dupe, again

[elocs]

26. So, please explain how all of those votes that went to Nader in Florida helped Gore?

:shrug:

Conspiracies are always more alluring than individual choices. Just like every lost election that was close had to be stolen.

[Exilednight]

45. You're working under a false assumption. Do you think the people who voted for Nader would of voted

for Gore if Nader's name was not on the ballot?

There were three other candidates on the Fl ballot who were just as left leaning as Nader and received less votes than Nader, but more than the difference between Gore and Bush.

The other argument to be made is that Gore didn't really care enough about the liberal agenda to campaign for their votes.

And let's be honest, we really don't know who would of won if the recount were to have continued. Bush still might of won, but Gore still had a shot. It was the SC who stopped the count and allowed Bush to be certified the winner of FL.

[elocs]

Another dupe that showed up as a response to the OP rather than a post. n/t

[elocs]

56. Yes, I assume that & I believe it is a logical assumption.

It was stupid to vote for Nader in a battleground state such as Florida. If he wasn't on the battle I think it is a logical assumption that more of those votes would have gone to Gore than Bush.

The big meme then, as now, was that there was no difference between Democrats and Republicans, Gore and Bush.

Bottom line: those who voted for Nader in Florida did not in any way help Gore, but Bush was thankful.

[sabrina 1]

58. How about all those Democrats who voted for Bush?

Nader had nothing to do with the Felonious Five deciding that election. He ran a legal and fair campaign, THEY committed treason, and you're letting them off the hook for what they did??? No wonder we never get any justice in this country. People are so locked into their personal grievances they are willing to ignore even a major crime like the theft of the 2000 election by the USSC. Amazing.

[Exilednight]

71. I disagree. I think those that voted for Nader would have still voted for a

3rd party candidate. You believe that Nader pulled votes from Gore, but I believe the reality is that Nader pulled votes from other 3rd party candidates.

[ChiciB1]

80. Nader WAS NOT The Problem In Florida... I Live Here & It Was A Fiasco!

There was MUCH MORE to 2000 than Nader! I've had this conversation so many times, so won't bother to dissect it again. Yes, Nader got votes... but really it goes much deeper and Nader isn't here now and Florida is STILL having problems.

I would like to know HOW Rick Scott became Governor! It wasn't because Nader had anything to do with it. The BUSHIES' are still here in this state... make no mistake about it! Jebby is hiding in the BUSHES still!

BET ON IT!

[sabrina 1]

17. Gore won the 2000 election. The SC gave it to George Bush.

The rewriting of history is simply stunning at times.

[SusanaMontana41]

29. Yup. n/t

[bluestate10]

53. Are mites blind? Does the SC make them see? Is Up Down and Down Up? nt

[dbt]

41. The Supreme Court elected bu$h.

There were only nine votes that mattered in the Supposed Election of 2000. You Nader haters need to give it up and move on for the good of the country.

:evilgrin:

[ZombieHorde]

60. Gore/Lieberman elected Bush by not dropping out of the race when a real liberal ran. nt

[TransitJohn]

74. Bush wasn't elected., duh. n/t

eom

[DevonRex]

7. Fuck Nader. Nt

[popsicle ricky]

24. Why?

[elleng]

8. Really could live without this. May forego KO tonight.

[CakeGrrl]

9. What a fuckin' idiot. -nt

[Betsy Ross]

10. I went to Larry O during that segment.

Thanks for letting me know I made a good choice.

[11 Bravo]

11. Damn, what IS the life expectancy of a narcissistic shithead?

[dionysus]

12. .

:nopity:

[Xipe Totec]

13. Aw Jeez!

[eilen]

15. Nader did more for the people of the US than Obama ever did.

Thank him for the creation of OSHA (the Occupational Safety and Health Administration), the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), and the Consumer Product Safety Administration? And did you know that Nader was instrumental in the adoption of the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Freedom of Information Act, the Wholesome Meat Act, and the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act? (Indeed, it was Ralph Nader who maneuvered the auto industry into making airbags available on American cars.) However, more than anything else, Nader is responsible for a wholesale shift in contemporary attitudes toward consumer rights, public safety, humane business practices, and open government.

I'm certain his focus in life was never to put bankers and Standard & Poor's in their happy place.

[Chorophyll]

21. I agree. But I think he should stick to activism and stay out

of presidential politics. He hasn't done anything constructive in recent memory.

[eilen]

79. I love the "what have you done for me lately" crowd.

Get off your ass and do it yourself.

[Chorophyll]

81. Um, I don't care if he does anything "for me" or not.

I just want him to stay the fuck out of presidential elections. By the way, other than those, what HAS he done lately?

[sabrina 1]

23. If there are cuts to the Social Safety Net Programs, Nader

won't be the only one looking for a primary challenger, and it will not be a pretend effort either.

And I agree, Nader has done a lot for the American people. He will be remembered for what he did, despite the screeching of the small minority who don't want to hear the truth. The more I see how things work, the more I know how correct he was.

[CakeGrrl]

34. If only he'd stuck to that and not split votes in 2000. -nt

[Jim Lane]

70. That's absolutely the key point.

It's amazing that Nader is ONLY NOW noticing that we have this thing called the "primary" for choosing a major party's candidates.

If Nader had run in the Democratic primaries in 2000, he probably wouldn't have become President (though it's easier to see him being inaugurated via that route than as the Green Party candidate). He would, however, have been in televised debates about the issues, giving him a great platform for spreading his ideas to people who otherwise wouldn't (and didn't) hear them. He would have created a huge cadre of progressives who were versed in Democratic Party internal organization and procedures. He would have gotten more votes, including mine.

And, of course, there wouldn't have been a hopeless third-party candidacy to serve as one of the factors that resulted in the Bush administration. (Naderites, please note the boldfaced phrase. It's quite possible that Gore would have become President if Katherine Harris hadn't illegally disenfranchised 50,000 voters, or if Gore had picked Kerry as his running mate, or if the Supreme Court had decided honestly. None of that proves that Nader's decision had no effect. An event can having multiple causes.)

[adhd_what_huh]

16. RN can suck my ass!!!

[TheCowsCameHome]

19. He's like a cicada

Every four years or so........

[onehandle]

22. STFU, Ralph. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. Run! Ralph! Run!

:rofl:

ps: The only good news is that he'll be seen by about 20 households. :rofl:

[elocs]

27. And in this corner we have "Harold Stassen" Nader, Nader.

With apologies to Stassen. Although before all is eventually said and done he may have to arm wrestle Kucinich for that title.

[tallahasseedem]

28. Fuck off...

now is not the time.

[white_wolf]

30. I wonder how many people will throw Keith under the bus now

for having the nerve to let Nader on his show. Heaven forbid real progressive ideas are discussed.

[msanthrope]

52. Why? It was Shuster, and Nader, frankly, was nearly Falstaffian....

It was well-needed comic relief.

[66 dmhlt]

32. Nader - Costing Progressives One Election Not Enough for You?

Go Fuck Yourself, Nader!

[BlueDemKev]

76. Oh, but didn't you know.....

...that there is NO DIFFERENCE between Obama and the Tea Party?? :sarcasm:

[ProSense]

33. Oooh

"he stressed TWICE that the goal of the initiative is NOT TO actually try to BEAT HIM in the primary "

...a play primary. What a great strategy: We're so going to primary him, but we don't really mean it!!!!

Obligatory: Fuck Nader!

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

42. I know, you figure by now EVERYONE would be clued into the stupidity that is Ralph Nader.

[undeterred]

36. We need a real progressive to be talking about this.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Nader represents both an insignificant leftist fringe and powerful leftistl threat.

Simultaneously. At least according to the Third Way, New Democrat, apologists for the establishment.

[KittyWampus]

44. The Media gives Nader more significance than he'd have otherwise, since they love helping Rep's win-

just like Nader does.

[frogmarch]

38. Shove off, Ralph.

Scram. Be gone. You've done enough damage already.

[jeanmarc]

40. Obama is allowing Nader to make sense

Obama's conservative centrist positions have created a vacuum. I'm okay with primarying this President if he continues to act not like a liberal, but like George W. Bush 2.

[OregonBlue]

43. Please can we let Ralph blah, blah, blah, blah Nader go away. He is so boring and we have him to

thank for Bush. Please will he just shut up for once.

[ZombieHorde]

62. Bush was Gore's fault. nt

[politicasista]

46. Yawn

:boring: :boring: :boring:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

47. What the fuck does he care?

I thought there was no difference between Democrats and Republicans.

[Renew Deal]

48. Nader is as responsible for the mess we have today as anyone.

[Time for change]

49. I agree - The goal should be to beat him, so that Americans have the opportunity to vote for

a president who will represent them.

Getting progressive issues on the table would be a good effect of a serious primary challenge, but beating him would be far better. We don't just want progressive issues discussed and debated. We want them enacted into law.

[FLPanhandle]

50. So Nader wants to weaken the Democratic nominee

How surprising. Fuck Nader.

[bluestate10]

55. Posers like Nader are big at Firedog Lake, and of late unfortunately, DU. nt

[mmonk]

66. What is dividing us is neither of those.

It's two parties pushing laissez faire economics with no safety net.

[mzmolly]

54. I'm glad he's thinking in terms of a primary

vs. the general.

[Vanje]

59. Good

We need more voices Than 'Republican', and 'sucks just a little bit less than republican'.

I wish it was'nt that asshole, Nader, but SOMEONE has to do it.

[eridani]

61. Fine, Where's the national voter database? n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

64. Agree.

The primaries (where we get a "choice" of voting for Corporate Whore A or Corporate Whore B), are already a dog-and-pony show, enough already. I would LOVE to see a real progressive primary challenger. And to the Cheer Squad: Viva Democracy!

[stlsaxman]

65. Ralph's looking for another hefty paycheck from the RNC...?

[SidDithers]

68. Fuck Ralph Nader...nt

Sid

[Union Scribe]

72. LOL

Pavlov's dogs have nothing on Nader-hating DUers.

[nomb]

73. If you were in the booth and had no names, just a candidates position - Which Lever would you pull?

Just curious.

[BlueDemKev]

75. Hey Ralph.....GET LOST!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're the main reason this country is in the mess it is today!!! If you had backed Al Gore 11 years ago, Bush and the right-wing retards never would have destroyed this country during the '00s and you probably would have had a seat in the White House Cabinet!!!

Take your threats Ralph, and stick 'em where the sun doesn't shine!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[HappyMe]

82. He should just stfu.

15 minutes are over, fool.

[TheKentuckian]

83. The objective should be to win but a minimum would be to present alternative solutions

and distance at least some of the party from some version of corporate enabling Republicanism. Essentially the mid 90's Republicans on balance but a spectrum from Rockefeller to Dole to Reagan in prevailing views of those running the show.