Oh Okay. I see. Now it's Obama Wants To "dismantle" social security.

[Solomon]

The hyperbole grows with every minute.

Even Moses couldn't have lead DUers to the promised land. I can hear it now. "Why did he bring us out here in the desert to die". "Where's the water." "There's no food". "We were better off working for pharoah".

And with Moses, all the griping took place even after everybody had seen the pillar of fire, the water springing from the rock, not to mention the plagues.

(And yes, yes, I know. Moses was a myth)

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Soon they will say "abolish"

It's coming, if it ain't come already.

La la Land.

[WinkyDink]

3. Irony alert: WHO, in the modern analogy, worships the Golden Calf?

[Solomon]

8. Irony Alert ; Calling out hyperbole is worshipping the golden calf.

:rofl:

That's all you guys have to say. You don't even have to go as far as say Obama did something good. If you don't criticise him everytime you say something, you're worshipping the golden calf.

Way to prove my point. :thumbsup:

[WinkyDink]

12. You compare Obama to MOSES and I'M the one using hyperbole??!

[Solomon]

46. I didn't compare him to Moses at all. That's your warped

thinking. Keep on trying.


Riddle me this. If Obama gave away the farm, why the hell won't they take it? Hunh? You won't accept that it's racism, oh no, "they treat all democratic presidents this way". So tell me, why won't they take it?
They've been trying to tear down social security since it was created. And here our dear traitor is dismantling it lock stock and barrel, but they don't want it.

Why is that?

[sabrina 1]

58. They won't take it because he wants tax hikes for the wealthy

and they just want cuts. He IS giving them SS cuts and raising the age for Medicare. No Democratic President should ever even have considered this.

They are probably holding out until the last minute, hoping to get even more cuts than what he already offered. And my fear is, since he always gives in to them, he will do it.

[gateley]

4. I don't think that's what he WANTS at all. He, more than a lot

of those jerks back there, understands how necessary these programs are. I'm guessing his Grandparents relied on Social Security, and we know his Mom was on welfare for a while.

I'm hoping Reid's bill goes through, if only because it doesn't touch the Big Three, then after this crisis is over, maybe we can begin anew and stop with this compromise crap. Or at least compromise in areas where it doesn't HURT anybody.

I think he's choosing the lesser of two evils by agreeing to any "adjustments" at all, and that it never should have come to this. I don't agree with his stance, but I don't think he likes it one bit. :shrug:

[BlueCaliDem]

7. + 1000 eom

[EFerrari]

18. How many people can buy groceries or pay rent with his good intentions?

I'm betting, none.

[gateley]

24. None, and I'm not justifying or agreeing to his decisions. I disagree.

I was only stating that I don't think this is part of a plan he's got going (a la "he's just a Republican) or that he doesn't care. I think he DOES care, even though I still think he's making a really bad decision.

I don't know if I'm making the distinction clearly, but really, no one has to try to convince me this sucks. I agree.

[treestar]

31. Who says the poorest people's benefits are to be cut?

Is that really established?

[EFerrari]

35. And what about the unemployed that he's done nothing to help?

His job plan has been tax cuts and now spending cuts -- which lead to more unemployment. You don't have to look as far as when the first SS check goes out short. People are already suffering.

[treestar]

40. Where is it actually established that poor people's benefits will be cut?

Nothing to help the unemployed? That's crazy - Obama took tons of heat for letting the Bush tax cuts stay so he could get more unemployment benefits.

[EFerrari]

47. Oh, baloney. Those benefits only helped a small fraction of the unemployed

And he should have gotten heat for yet another terrible deal.

[treestar]

55. Ask the people in that small fraction what they thought of it

You're the one going on about people putting food on the table.

How could he get a better deal out of the Republicans? You're talking here as if Republicans can just be browbeaten into giving in. Like Obama should just beat them up until they give in.

[sabrina 1]

60. Ask HIM why he took that issue off the table during the

election and the Bush tax cuts. Had both those issues been on the table DURING the election, Democrats would have won in a landslide.

Why were they taken off, both of them? In my opinion because a deal had already been made, which many of us said at the time they were taken off the table, and we were proven to be correct.

[dionysus]

61. he wanted the bush tax cuts gone before the election. the dems in congress were too scared to have a

vote on it earlier.

[sabrina 1]

64. That's ridiculous. The public was overwhelmingly in favor

of taxing the rich, particularly after the unpopular bailouts of corrupt Wall St. Banks. It was hugely popular issue so there is no reason why Congress would have been anything but thrilled to have it on the table. And I do not recall that it was Congress who did not want it to be an issue in the election. As I recall it was the Party Leadership who really ought to stop advising anyone on anything at this point.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[BlueCaliDem]

6. I'm seeing that same hyperbole all over

this site. I'm tired of the baseless griping, too. He's never, EVER said he'd dismantle the Big 3. USA Today and the White House site even makes it clear that the GOP's "Duck, Dodge, and Dismantle" bill, that really does dismantle entitlement programs, is D.O.A. in the Senate, and the president has issued a veto threat.

But that isn't enough to convince the idealists.

They take his negotiating points, and run amok with them until they morph into something that's an outright lie that can only benefit the GOP in 2012.

I guess anything to bring this president down is fair game.

[DaveT]

11. Do you really believe that critics of Obama

don't really care about Social Security or Medicare?

That they post here just to knock him down?

Will you grant that at least some people may not agree with the President's handling of his job?


And, do you really think the best way to win in 2012 is to tell your most ardent allies to shut up? Do you think they will shut up in any event?


Regarding the details of the current fiasco in Washington, you are right that it ain't over til its over. We'll see what comes of all this. I have profound doubts that I am going to be happy with the result -- if the final result is the Reid Plan, I will be very unhappy. How about you?

[brentspeak]

9. He merely wants to unnecessarily and cynically cut Social Security benefits

by raising the Social Security retirement age and tying COLA to a chained CPI. All to please billionaires like Blackstone co-founder Pete Peterson.

No dismantling -- just cutting. And slashing.

[EFerrari]

10. That's pretty hilarious considering how much time Reid and Pelosi

have had to spend reassuring people that they won't let it happen. I guess they're delusional, along with all those liberal economists, Dean Baker, Paul Krugman, Michael Hudson, Robert Reich, Richard Wolff. They all never really loved him. Waxman, Conyers, Kucinich, they're all just wandering in the desert.

LMAO

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Moses was a myth. So is the liberal Obama. nt

[EFerrari]

25. He's still talking about "entitlement reform" TODAY.

“Keep in mind, this is not a situation where the two parties are miles apart. We're in rough agreement about how much spending can be cut responsibly as a first step toward reducing our deficit,” he said. “We agree on a process, where the next step is a debate in the coming months on tax reform and entitlement reform.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4940930&mesg_id=4940930

[WinkyDink]

14. Bit o'conflict here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1603312&mesg_id=1603312

[girl gone mad]

15. One can only weigh the evidence.

[Big Blue Marble]

16. You would never say you are dismantling the big 3.

No, you simmer the frog for awhile. First, you cut back on the funding with a payroll tax holiday.
Then you cut the cola, so that over time the program has less and less value.

You increase the age of eligibility for Medicare, so that more are forced to stay in the private insurance
syphon longer. You force more people to pay more out of pocket for their coverage at
while cutting back their SS benefits.

you do all this and say with a straight face that you are saving these programs.

And, by the way, you are a Democratic President who never mentioned that this was part
of your intention when you were elected.

Given this evidence, why would anyone think that Obama would want to destroy these vital programs?:shrug:

[EFerrari]

20. ^^^This^^^

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. By George, you've got it! nt

[treestar]

32. Why would any candidate campaign on what they would do with

an opposing Congress? Has any candidate ever done that?

[Kaleko]

54. Clear-eyed post alert.

:applause:

[myrna minx]

57. +1

[formercia]

17. While Beck flogs the Golden Calf.

:rofl:

The Earth will open up and swallow us all. :rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. You want to know how to dismantle a dam?

Punch one tiny hole through it. Let nature take its course.

You want to know how to dismantle SS?

Introduce chained CPI to it. Let nature take its course.

The ONLY way to preserve either is to keep them completely intact.

[Marrah_G]

21. I know, I know

LEAVE OBAMA ALONE :cry:

[Aerows]

22. Honey if you are seeing ardent support for Social Security

you need to point it out for us. Or even just a defense of it, and Medicare. I dare you. Step up to the plate and show us your examples.

Otherwise, this is just a weak rebuttal that convinces no one but the chronically smitten. Notice I said nothing about being a Democrat in there, just chronically smitten by a cult of personality.

[jaxx]

23. K&R

I've read through the responses and they are the usual.
Same old hair on fire crap about what ifs.
Thanks for trying.

[Solomon]

27. They won't even admit to the exageration. Instead they pile on

and attempt to justify the hyperbole. LOL

[Little Star]

63. I keep reading posts that say every thing is fine....

be happy, don't worry. UGH!

[JoePhilly]

26. He's so "hell bent" to dismantle it ... and yet, he can't get a bill

passed that actually dismantles it.

He sucks at his dismantling of Social Security effort!!!

Hell, the GOP has wanted to kill Social Security for DECADES ... but now Obama wants to kill it, apparently, the GOP is against it!!!

Man, the guy can't win!

[jaxx]

29. At least his base sticks up for him.

We are strong.

[JoePhilly]

33. I'm anti-knee-jerk.

And anti-hair-on-fire.

Obama isn't perfect, but I'd never bring my criticisms to DU, this place is knee-jerk, hair-on-fire, central.

[jaxx]

36. Yep.

[uponit7771]

42. +1000

[uponit7771]

41. lol

[treestar]

30. good point - the hyperbole of usage of terms like "gutting" and "dismantling"

is clear - what the "cuts" specifically are is not discussed.

Even the rich collect SS, so I don't even care if they "cut" the actual benefits, as long as its them. They aren't getting their taxes raised, so let them pay that way.

[Ryano42]

34. Jeez! Don't you know it's ALL OVER???

America? The DEMO-CRAT party? ALL OVER!!! He signed it last night ABOLISHING Medicare and Social Security!!!!! While spooning with Boehner!!!!

Not only is Obama (Nevil Chamberlin only slightly taller and skinnier) the worst p(R)esident ever, but they long for W, who was far more Liberal than "that one". He has done nothing and even worse he's done it without any opposition...

To read DU today is to see that everyone here has quit, defeated and resigned to a slow agonizing death by catfood!

So dig your hole, put on your EMO make up and prepare for the end...



:sarcasm:

But...seriously...WTF people? Dramatastic!

[JoePhilly]

45. +1000 ... one could get rich selling fainting couches on DU.

[thelordofhell]

51. They put the emo in Democratic Party

[UrbScotty]

37. I disagree with Moses being a myth - but you're right about the hyperbole.

[Taverner]

38. Can someone here just post the facts?

Everything I have read, well everything I have read that uses source based info indicates that the only change Obama is proposing right now, in public (we don't know what they discussed behind closed doors) is raising the Medicare age to 67. Granted, I think that's a very bad idea, but that's the only tangible change to SS/Medicare that Obama is publicly discussing right now.

[uponit7771]

44. I don't see any reports QUOTING Obama on this either, the rest of these guys are reacting

[Taverner]

53. Hmmm you are right I haven't seen a quote

I don't doubt it - but I haven't seen a quote for that matter

[Andy823]

39. K&R

Yes, some people are never happy unless "everything" goes their way. They can't see the long term, only the short term. I am sure they would be so much happier with a republican lead country where they would get NOTHING at all they wanted!

They need to take a long hard look at what it's like with a republican running things, and republicans in charge of the government. Wisconsin, Main, or Florida might be a good place for them to move to!

[TheKentuckian]

50. I'm thinking long term, hence my ire. Long term in my mind is well beyond an election cycle.

[Bluebear]

43. If you are so upset with Conyers you should write him

[Solomon]

48. LOL

Saw your name and thought you were gonna throw in Rick Warren like you do with evey other thread.

[Vinnie From Indy]

49. Was Moses a Democrat?

I have a hard time with following right-wingers.

[grahamhgreen]

52. He's an enabler, if not a prime mover.

[bvar22]

56. Obama put it on the Bargaining Table,

not Boehner,
and certainly not me.

And I won't even go into the "Temporary Payroll Tax Holiday".
Nothing GOOD will come from that.

Cutting Government Spending & "Trimming" "Entitlements" during a Recession and Jobs Crisis
is Conservative Republican Dogma,
and has NEVER worked.

"Democrats" INCREASE Spending and Strengthen the Safety Net during hard times.
I cringe every time I hear our Democratic president repeating those Conservative Republican Talking Points.
We have truly fallen down the Rabbit Hole.

Social Security & Medicare are the cornerstones of the modern Democratic party,
not some Bargaining Chips to be put on the chopping block.
Obama Crossed the Rubicon simply by offering them up for "trimming".
What was once sacred,
is sacred no more.
It will be so much easier to continue the dismantling of the New Deal
now that a "Democratic" president has set the precedent.
A Republican could have NEVER gotten away with THAT.



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

[Edweird]

59. It was obvious with his executive order creating the catfood comission after congress denied it.

So not 'now', but yes.

[inna]

62. ridiculous and... unsavory, to say the least.

[Rex]

65. Looks like a lot of people believe that to be true already.