Barney Frank on Countdown

[nadinbrzezinski]

Paraphrasing...

"Perhaps only after some significant pain, after default, we will be able to do something about it."

This is his worst case...

I happen to agree at this point.

[gateley]

1. Is he saying he thinks we'll default? Thanks. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Yep, at this point he fears it

[gateley]

3. Sigh. Nobody benefits from that. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Nope but we are dealin' with religiious fanatics

they have been told by EXPERTS what this could do... REPUBLICAN mainstream experts... alas they are experts and know-nothings.

Anti intellectualism, that elephant in the room people are really not allowed to talk about, with american exceptionalism, is 'bout to bite us in the damn rear.

[Cool Logic]

4. It is interesting to watch as both sides continue to misrepresent what

default entails.

Clearly, they all believe that injecting false fear into the equation strengthens their positions.

If I were inclined to believe in conspiracies, I would conclude that the concept of "both sides," actually has the Ds & Rs on one side and the People on the other.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I will ask a question from you

have you ever lived through a default?

I have, in an economy hundreds of times smaller... and it was all but fun.

I will say this.. they are not injecting enough fear... since they have no idea what could, worst case, after the USD IS a reserve currency, this could do.

I will say this, it wil touch your life in significant ways, but depression is not out of the equation.

[Cool Logic]

7. It is un-Constitutional to default. That is why it will not happen.

Default, as it applies the US Treasury, would entail not paying the interest on the bonds it issues, or paying off the bonds that have reached maturity. These are the public debts that "shall not be questioned," pursuant to the 14th.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Where to start? You'd need a President who is willing

to pull that trigger. So far we have had zero signs that they are willing to go there.

As is even a TECHNICAL default will do damage and I know that.

[Cool Logic]

10. There is not need for President who is willing to pull that trigger.

We've been hearing quite a bit about the 14th of late. I don't know who invented the idea that the Executive branch has the the unilateral power to borrow, but they are just as wrong about that as they are about the possibility of a default.

However, the 14th does require that we pay our bills and we have more than enough money to do that. The US Treasury has taken in more than 20 fold what is required to service our debt, since May 16, when we reached the debt limit.

http://www.fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html

[gateley]

9. An argument against this is that it doesn't give the President

authority to borrow to pay the debt, or something like that.

I think this is why the experts - the real law/constitutional experts - can't come to an agreement on this.

Regardless, at this point, and if he is to be believed, Obama will not invoke the 14th Amendment. They are still talking about compromise being the only way to resolve this issue, that, and that default is not an option.

I have no idea where this will wind up.

[Cool Logic]

11. Clearly, I did a poor job of explaining my point.

Article 2 delegates Executive branch powers, and says nothing about borrowing authority.

The president is not a King and the 14th amendment was not intended to give the Executive branch the authority to usurp Congressional jurisdiction from the Congress. However, it does require that we pay our bills, which are represented by the bonds that the Treasury has issued.