How Would W Handle a Debt Ceiling Challenge?

[DaveT]

I am trying to imagine if the 2007-9 Democratic Congress had tried use the debt ceiling or some similar gimmick against W. Bush to force a withdrawal from Iraq or a repeal of the tax cuts for the over 200k bracket -- what would the GOP do in response?

First, Shrub and all the right wing noise machine would accuse the Dems of attacking America, threatening to destroy our economy as a blackmail scheme to force their radical/socialist agenda on the American people in clear violation of the Constitution.

Second, Shrub would make a big show of the steps he would be taking to defend America from this blackmail attack -- making a list of spending priorities; assure the public that national defense and public safety would be assured; authorize the Attorney General to explore all options for countering this underhanded trick that the other side is trying to pull off.

Third, the Rove brain trust would come up with a catch-phrase (like the ill-fated "read my lips" or the far more successful, "go ahead, make my day") for Shrub to use as the tag to his televised address to the nation dramatizing his steely resolve not to knuckle under to blackmail.


Of course the Dems never tried to do anything like this -- and the GOP has never tried to do anything like this before now. What Obama with his middlist mentality has done is legitimize this tactic, which is damned close to treason. When the other side is really evil, you cannot make your pitch to the public by saying that you will give the devil his due.

It makes you look like a worthless piece of shit. And it gives evil what it wants.


Bad politics and worse public policy.

[FreakinDJ]

1. They should have entered Washington saying .....

"Time to Pay for Bush Tax Cuts and Wars"

[DaveT]

4. agreed

In fact, that is my single biggest disappointment (among many) about President Obama. We listened to the GOP rag on Jimmy Carter for decades -- yet our leader rarely says a word about Bush and his bankrupting of the country. Predictably, the GOP noise machine fills the vacuum with blame of Obama for the effects of Bush.

The frustration is almost unbearable. Why is he so lame?

[FreakinDJ]

8. hate to say it but ...

I place a lot of blame on the content of Pelosi's Stimulus Bill. 50% Tax Cuts and only 9% infrastructure spending was not a winning formula nor the type of spending I feel would have stimulated the economy properly. I know I'll probably get blasted for saying that. I did at the time it was being proposed and numerous people said they were "Book Marking" my thread because I also said it will cost us "Big Time" in the 2010 election

Result was DEMs were immediately placed on the defensive up to and all through HCR

[arbusto_baboso]

2. Plus, there would have been "small plane accidents" for a few of the Dems who...

made an issue of the debt ceiling for W.

It would serve as a warning to other Dems, and their cooperation would be secured shortly thereafter.

[NNN0LHI]

3. He wouldn't have to deal with it

At the first hint of an impasse his right wing base would be standing outside Speaker Pelosi's home screaming at the top of their lungs 24/7 until she caved.

Don

[Contrary1]

5. Signing statement like he dealt with just about everything. n/t

[karynnj]

6. Actually, the Democrats in 2007 passed a defense bill with an amendment that called for a timeline

in getting out of Iraq. Bush vetoed it and asked for a clean bill, which he eventually got with only a few resolutions like one that called for Bush to initiate a regional summit. The situation was different though, even if the Congress overrode Bush's veto, the President could not be forced to end the war. Note he ignored the call for a summit, which was a part of Kerry/Feingold that Senator Warner agreed to accept into the bill. Also, recall that other than Warner's and Kerry's press releases, the media completely ignored this - letting Bush completely ignore it.

I think one basic difference is that Democrats want government to actively do things - meaning they need to pass legislation. The Republicans don't want an active government, so they can simply block legislation. Blocking legislation is MUCH easier than passing it - in the Senate you need 41 to stop things, but 60 to pass things. This may have made sense when there were two parties both trying to pass legislation.

[DaveT]

7. No argument about what happened

but my hypothetical question is a different proposition altogether. Rather than pass something, the Pelosi House could refuse to pass any budget at all unless they got what they wanted. That would have had the same effect as today's game by the teabaggers. It is a simple game of extortion and any time the House is opposed to the President, this option is available. It has never happened before now, because it is such a nihilistic concept.

Instead of attacking them for their inappropriate tactic, as Bush and Clinton and every other previous president would have done, our guy keeps trying to reason with the blackmailers.

This is so wrong.

[karynnj]

10. I see

The budget included many programs the Democrats had fought hard for. There is not way they would want the government to stop.

As to the debt ceiling, I think the Democrats never would have done this because a republican President would have cut the entire social network and all Democratic programs first and I think that alone would be enough to stay under the ceiling.

[sixmile]

9. Cheney would shout "Obstructionists!"

and the Dems would cave immediately.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Erect bogeyman. Wave flag. Send in the troops and shout "Support Our Troops!".

[hfojvt]

12. at the risk of repeating myself - again

you could always look at what he actually DID do, twice http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/149

[DaveT]

18. Excellent journal entry

I guess it is a little different now in that the entire credit system around the world is teetering on the brink of another collapse like the one in 2008 -- but your point is still very apt.

Why was this a yawner from the middle pages of the newspaper a decade ago, but breathless theater now?

It makes me wonder if we are just watching Kabuki Theater, while the real decisions have been made. . . .

[hfojvt]

24. it is curious

maybe the constant Treasury warning are partly hype. Maybe it is because the Democrats were not making public demands like "we will not raise the debt ceiling unless ..." and they certainly did not get Bush to come to the table to work out a grand bargain. Something that I would not have trusted coming from him any more than I trust it coming from Obama.

However, the media is now reporting it as if it has always been routine, and that does not seem to be true, at least from those accounts.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Brush?

:shrug:

[PA Democrat]

14. It would never come to that. Democrats would never engage in economic terrorism.

[Imagevision]

15. Simple, give it to Cheney as he did with other matters running the country...

[Amonester]

16. All that and: "Martial Law"

in the end.

[kenny blankenship]

17. He wouldn't waste a sec in swatting away the Congress NOR in implying treasonous usurpation.

The Constitution does not intend for the lower House to exercise veto power over the Senate and President, but the reverse. The Constitution does not provide any branch with the opportunity of making terroristic threats and then pretending that these are consistent with "due process of government". These "terrist type threats are a danger to the security of the United States of a kind more serious than anything we've faced since September the Eleventh," the Commander-In-Chief would tell the frightened nation. "I have sworn an oath to protect and defend the People and Constitution of the United States of America from ALL enemies, foreign or domestic. They're out to violate the separation of powers prescribed in the Constitution and that would amount to a mob rule - a dictatorship by one branch of government. That's a deal breaker and a breach of Constitutionally legitimate government and it will not stand - this aggression will not uh you know how they say fool me once. Point is: read my lips! It will not stand, this aggression by Democrat usurpers."

Bush would announce on all TV channels that the Democratic faction in the House were subverting the Constitution and the government, and his Treasury would promptly issue DOUBLE the amount of debt previously being negotiated for to avert default, as an emergency measure to remove the threat of extortion, and just to make his point that you do not fuck with him. Also, the fact this revolt is occurring "Durnatime awar" would be mentioned several times with dark hints that the Dept. of Homeland Security will be taking a special interest in the background and contacts of those "political operatives" who are, for some reason, impeding and interrupting the flow of funds to the War Against Terrorism.

[DaveT]

26. great post nt

[grahamhgreen]

19. He would say...

"A debt what?"

[DaveT]

22. That is probably the best guess nt

[Evasporque]

20. do some brushin' to knock back the mesquite...nt

[Gold Metal Flake]

21. The massive corporate conservative media industry works for repubs, not Dems.

TV, Cable, print & radio. You can not draw similarities because of the mighty corporate media conspiracy.

[Lucky 13]

23. "Now watch this drive."

[HopeHoops]

25. Same way as anything else - get shitfaced drunk.

[musette_sf]

27. Unca Dick would deputize Hot Tub Tom

(aka The Hammer) to twist arms, threaten family and pets, and warn of blackmail, until full compliance was reached.