Glennzilla nails it: -- "if the perpetrators are not Muslim"

[kpete]

Glennzilla nails it:
The Oslo attacks
The way we view our own violence is reflected in how we respond to the violence of others
BY GLENN GREENWALD


"American interest in these attacks and the desire to be seen publicly denouncing them will quickly diminish -- almost to the point of non-existence -- if the perpetrators are not Muslim."

http://mobile.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2011/07/22/oslo/index.html

[Brickbat]

1. So true. So sadly true.

K&R.

[Dawson Leery]

2. True.

[aquart]

3. Well, it's in house.

And if they don't have the death penalty, they are stuck with him for life. Not our business.

But we do know how the grief feels.

[Tesha]

18. Civilized places *DON'T* have a death penalty.

It's not that big an expense to keep someone separated from
polite society for the rest of their lives.

Tesha

[WheelWalker]

50. Agreed.

[panzerfaust]

53. This past week in Texas we made sure that this guy's soulmate

would stay separated from "polite society." Another sicko who simply walked around and shot people because he thought they were Muslim - and he knew they were not white.



"I wanted those Arabs to feel the same sense of vulnerability and uncertainty on American soil much like the mindset of chaos and bedlam that they were already accustomed to in their home country," he said on a website devoted to his case."


To put society out of the misery of these monsters is one of the few times I think execution is justified.


The current Aryan God of Christian Vengeance is "... cooperating with police, making it clear he wanted to explain himself ..."



Personally, I do not think that he should be allowed to erect a platform on his pile of bodies from which to spread more Christian hate.

[Tesha]

55. Once you admit a state has a right to kill whom it does not like, ...

...it all just becomes a question of degrees.

We're a big enough people that we could easily afford not to kill
*ANYONE*.

Tesha

[customerserviceguy]

57. You could say the same thing about imprisonment

After all, it's just a matter of the degree of the offense for societies to decide who to put away, right?

[theFrankFactor]

58. Umm, sure but death carries a certain permanence.

[customerserviceguy]

62. So does life without parole. n/t

[Tesha]

60. Imprisonment, in case you hadn't noticed, *OFFERS* degrees of punishment.

It's also somewhat reversible in case the state errs.

It also allows for the possibility, no matter how faint, of
rehabilitation.

Execution offers none of these.

Tesha

[customerserviceguy]

63. Maybe that's what prison is like in Norway

I guess your mass murderer is going to like it there.

[FloridaJudy]

59. I doubt very much

That Manson or Sirhan will be walking about free any time soon, and it's been a loooooong time since they were put away. The Norwegians should toss this monster into the same pit.

I'm not fond of the death penalty. There are cheaper and more humane ways to protect the innocent. Certainly the 9/11 hijackers wouldn't have been deterred!

[johnd83]

4. I susect we will hear very little about this

on the RW media.

[Kaleko]

5. The Germans had the Jews.

Americans have the Muslims to project their most violent impulses and fears upon.

And in both cases it was propaganda spiked with toxic fear-mongering that gave them these enemies.

All of it theater, carefully orchestrated from 'above' by the so-called elites, the puppet masters whose descendents are still in charge of the production and directorships.

I'm beginning to think that gullibility should be considered a crime -- a crime against humanity.

But, of course, there will always be followers who hail their Führers , no matter what.

[JDPriestly]

11. Scary, but think of it, for people who like to hate, it is just a baby

step from Muslims to Jews to African-Americans. Just a baby step.

[Kaleko]

16. Any ethnic group can be made into public enemy No 1

as long as the people are gullible, vengeful and willing to feed the war profiteering machine with their own brothers, husbands, daughters and sons.

[Fumesucker]

24. It doesn't even have to be an ethnic group..

Any group that stands out in any way can, and often does, become a target.

Try driving around the Bible Belt with a Darwin fish on your bumper and see what happens to your car while it's parked.

[Kaleko]

34. That's right.

The fear of "the other" - anyone who appears to be "other than us" - is what can be manipulated most easily since fear breeds hatred, loathing, contempt. And that will inevitably be exploited to serve the aims of the predatory class.

What to do? No society can be changed unless we educate each other, bring awareness to these psychological dynamics, and get to a point where roughly 10 percent of the population is immune to toxic propaganda injections. That's when the center of gravity in a culture gets lifted up a notch.

[TxVietVet]

56. That's right. They will label you an "outsider" and the hatred takes over.

If they have an over abundance of hate talkers on the AM/FM radio in the area, their hatred is real. Sometimes, you can just set them off over nothing. It's real.
They hate minorities, welfare recipients, people on food stamps, any Democrat, progressive, homosexual, gay, lesbian, whatever, just name it, they hate those people. I know a couple guys that they have so much hatred for the former Louisiana governor Blanco and New Orleans mayor Nagin because their hate talkers and the boys at the lodge demonized them so much over the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

It's real. It's America. I'm not only talking about down in Texas here, but in Wisconsin, it's just as bad.

Wake up and keep your eyes and ears open. Whether you know it or not, there is a villain really close and you don't know it. All it is going to take is probably not much to set them off. Like I say, it's real.

In the current political atmosphere, it's especially there. The conservanazis have demonized so many people, it's almost unreal. Look at Casey Anthony. The conservanazis, especially that nitwit on CNN, have demonized her, there are literaly thousands of Americans that will probably sing praise if she is murdered on the street.

[Alameda]

66. But if there is a distinguishable physical difference, it helps

fan the flames of hate.

[Alameda]

65. Don't forget, it's hard to tell the difference between Latinos & Arabs

[WinkyDink]

22. German Jews were citizens of long standing, not then-recent immigrants.

[Kaleko]

38. I don't get the point you seem to want to make here.

:shrug:

[xchrom]

6. Recommend

[aikoaiko]

7. Its only true because we often lose interest even in attacks in other countries by Muslims.

:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

8. Glenn Greenwald: automatic unrecommend n/t

[Kaleko]

12. Are you a robot on automatic pilot?

If so, I guarantee you that a major tune up is coming. Maybe it's right around the bend.

:hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

13. ...and your post reminded me to recommend. Happy now?

[Bluebear]

14. Only a fool does that without even reading what it is about

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. This post is factually correct.

Alas, it will be deleted, but it is factually correct.

And I won't be alerting on it. Because it is factually correct.

EDIT: The previous, laconic version of this post was even more factually correct.

[Bluebear]

17. Sometimes the revision is never as good as the original.

But you know how it goes.

[Tesha]

20. You've just confirmed something I've long suspected about how DLCish folks approach issues,...

topics, ideas, and people (including politicians from various points on
the political spectrum).

Tesha

[truth2power]

26. In terms of lack of critical thinking, that's a tell.

But carry on.

[Flubadubya]

30. Quelle surprise!

NOT!

OR la la la la I can't hear you!

[Kaleko]

37. Oh, that's catchy --

"United we stand...
...with our heads in the sand."

I'll be using that. Thnx.

[Hissyspit]

39. delete nt

[SemperEadem]

40. allow me to be recommend #100

[stockholmer]

42. shame on you

:thumbsdown:

[izquierdista]

45. You just reminded me.....

+1

[Forkboy]

52. You silent post on Norway was the equivelent of Murdoch's paper running this ad....

[LoZoccolo]

69. No matter what I post, you've already decided that it has ill intent.

Do you realize that? Whether or not I have sincere concern for something, I'm likely - based on what I've seen with this and other posts you've made - to not be acknowledged for it by you, because you'll come up with some explanation about how I don't really mean it.

[Forkboy]

70. Pattern recognition.

Whether or not I have sincere concern for something, I'm likely - based on what I've seen with this and other posts you've made - to not be acknowledged for it by you, because you'll come up with some explanation about how I don't really mean it.

Like automatically unreccing things? Like assuming you know what people think without actually reading their words? Like not putting any thought into the person's words at all and just going for kneejerk condemnation because you don't like them personally? Am I doing that kind of thing to you LoZo?

I'm merely holding a mirror up to you and you don't like what you see, but can't admit that it's your own reflection looking back at you. And the view I have of you is the view you yourself have offered up.

[LoZoccolo]

71. How can you recognize a pattern when you can't see the result?

You've never been able to read my mind, ever. If you had a way of verifying what I was thinking, and had observed enough trials of my actions and a verified result from reading my mind, you might be able to imply it after a while. But you have never known what I was actually thinking. You have always been guessing.

[Forkboy]

72. Look up pattern recognition and get back to me.

One doesn't have to know a given result to see a pattern. In fact, some patterns have no deeper meaning then the pattern itself. It's a fascinating topic, one I've spent a lot of time reading and thinking about. It's great for politics and psychology, among other things.

As for the rest of your post, there's another mirror for you. Will you ever look into it?

[LoZoccolo]

73. I'm sure that you "see" a pattern.

You're using the pattern to infer something else about my intentions. You've never once confirmed your guesses about them; you can't. I know about pattern recognition, enough to know that when, say, you want to set up artificial pattern recognition in the form of a neural net, you have to train it, and to do so you need to need to know the actual result in order to reinforce correct results.

[Forkboy]

74. I know that all you know about it is what you just read on Wiki lol.

[LoZoccolo]

75. Even if I did, it would still be true. n/t

[Forkboy]

76. You don't even understand what you wrote.

You just strung some cool sounding words together that you read on Wiki in an attempt to baffle with bullshit.

I've led you to water, you decide if you want to drink or not.

Have a nice day. :hi:

[Gabi Hayes]

77. did you read the William Gibson book/series?

more than moderately entertaining

still like Virtual Light more than the others

Neuromancer, though............

when are they going to make a movie out of some of these

there was New Rose Hotel....oofa

[Forkboy]

78. I've read Neuromancer and Idoru.

This is the latest news on the planned Neuromancer movie...

http://sciencefictionworld.com/films/science-fiction-films/775-whats-happening-with-the-neuromancer-movie-an-update-three-years-on.html

These things make me nervous. :)

[LoZoccolo]

79. From which Wikipedia article(s) did I take material? n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. Now, Lozoccolo, tell me, what did you accomplish by posting that?

[Bluebear]

67. Must be something tingly he feels.

[sabrina 1]

64. And rec'd for Greenwald, one of the few truthtellers still around.

[slipslidingaway]

9. knr nt

[Vanandric]

10. yup.

unless its condeming people of color, the right wing media in the US has no interest in it.

if it wasn't for rachel maddow I doubt anyone in the media would even remember timothy mcveigh was a right wing christian nutjob and probably would have recast him as a muslim by now.

[malaise]

19. Yep - no live coverage

Amazing how the corporate media refuses to expose right wing Xtian fundamentalist conservative terrorists.

[WinkyDink]

21. It's not the only factor. Norway is not the U.S.

[slackmaster]

23. I would abstract and broaden the statement

A terrorist act committed by a lone madman has less potential bearing on American interests than would a similar act perpetrated by an organization of any kind.

[CJCRANE]

35. AFAIK the lone "madman" mentioned a Norwegian version of the Tea Party

and also followed RW American pundits so there is some crossover.

Anti-government anti-muslim types communicate across borders whether they're in Oslo, London or Washington.

[cali]

25. nonsense. Sorry, but 80 dead children will always engender massive outrage

and predictions such as this are real shite. Making political hay out of this sucks. You lost me here Glenn.

[progressoid]

31. I predict in less than 24 hours there will be 10 times more coverage of Amy Winehouse's death

than this tragedy.

Ask the average person on the street about the events in Norway, and they'll give you a blank stare.

[Rabrrrrrr]

51. Yep - We will see way more Winehouse coverage than Norway coverage.

And mostly because the Norwegian guy was a white teabagger. Had he been a Muslim, then the media would pound it to death for a week or two, even at the expense of Winehouse coverage.

but for someone who's the Norwegian equivalent of a FOX news watcher? Meh.

[panzerfaust]

54. So sadly true

[LeftishBrit]

27. I hope not!

America has had its own homegrown terrorists after all, notably McVeigh.

The UK has had plenty, mostly connected to the Northern Ireland conflict, but also including such people as Copeland, the racist and homophobic London nail bomber.

In any case, the point is that lots of people, many of them young teenagers, have been killed in a senseless and horrible attack, and we should all care.

[DirkGently]

28. They've already stopped calling it "terrorism." Now it's "a ferocious attack."

[Blue_Tires]

29. I was saying the same thing...

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stockholmer]

43. nice use of 'strenuous' .... well played

:toast:

[XanaDUer]

33. Oh so true

nt.

[treestar]

36. Not me.

Not all Americans. If that statement were limited to right wingers, I'd agree.

[stockholmer]

41. "The way we view our own violence is reflected in how we respond to the violence of others"

brilliance

[krispos42]

44. Bulls-eye.

It's okay to kowtow to terrorists, as long as they're white Christian terrorists.

[MzShellG]

46. Evil terrorists......

They come in all races, cultures, demographics and religions.

[mhatrw]

47. The guy who did this was a Muslim hater.

The supposed manifesto of the alleged lone perpetrator can be found here:

http://www.2shared.com/file/M-s-2fBD/2083-AEuropeanDeclarationofInd.html

[MzShellG]

48. CNN describes the terrorist as right wing and....

If this isn't a global attack on liberalism then what is, since this was a political youth camp. Aren't tea baggers cheering him?

[yellowwood]

49. Ties with Daniel Pipes

Another poster here showed a tie-in with our own Daniel Pipes. I remember when he complained about Muslim professors in US universities.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1555107

You're right. The right wing was just salivating in hopes the perpetrator would be a Muslim terrorist.

[SaveAmerica]

68. My son asked why there was so little coverage of the news in Norway; IMO cause he's lilly white and

he doesn't sell here.