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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:31 PM
Original message
Obama and the Hamiltonian Democrats.
As I have been trying to cope with my anger over the way seniors have been stressed out over fears of "reform" to Social Security, I remembered an article by Harold Meyerson in the Washington Post in 2006. It was called Hamiltonian Democrats. It was about the new Hamilton Project of the Brookings Institute.

Hamiltonian Democrats

It's come to this: The chief project to restate Democratic economics for our time was unveiled a couple of weeks ago, and it's named after the father of American conservatism, Alexander Hamilton.

Necessarily, the authors of the Hamilton Project preface their declaration with an attempt, not altogether successful, to reclaim Hamilton from the right. The nation's first secretary of the Treasury, they note, "stood for sound fiscal policy, believed that broad-based opportunity for advancement would drive American economic growth, and recognized that 'prudent aids and encouragements on the part of government' are necessary to enhance and guide market forces."

Which is true, as far as it goes. Hamilton believed in balanced budgets and in the government's taking an active role to build the infrastructure and fiscal climate that business and the nation need to succeed -- ideas as alien to the current administration as support for collective farms. But Hamilton also feared the common people, dismissed their capacity for self-government and supported rule by elites instead.

That might be enough to deter most Democrats from naming their firstborn economic revitalization scheme after him, but the authors of the Hamilton Project are made of sterner stuff. They include Peter Orszag, an estimable Brookings Institution economist; investment banker Roger Altman, formerly of the Clinton Treasury department; and, chiefly, former Treasury secretary and current Citigroup executive committee Chairman Robert Rubin, whose iconic status within the Democratic mainstream has waxed as the median incomes of Americans under the Bush presidency have waned. Rubin has also become a seal of good housekeeping for Democratic candidates seeking money from Wall Street. When Bob Rubin talks, Democratic pols don't just listen; they scramble for front-row seats and make a show of taking notes.


Did you see that sentence? "Rubin has also become a seal of good housekeeping for Democratic candidates seeking money from Wall Street"

Obama was one of the main speakers at the 2006 opening of the Hamilton Project.

Restoring America's Promise of Opportunity, Prosperity and Growth

Moderator:
Peter Orszag
Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution

Panel One: Restoring America's Promise of Opportunity, Prosperity, and Growth

Senator Barack Obama (D-IL)

Robert Rubin
Director and Chairman of the Executive Committee, Citigroup Inc.

The Reverend Jim Wallis
Founder, Sojourners; Author, God's Politics


Transcribed from the pdf version of Senator Obama's speech.

Obama is speaking of Robert Rubin. They were talking about the "losers" in the new free market economy.

Bob and I have had a running debate now for about a year about how do we, in fact, deal with the losers in a globalized economy. There has been a tendency in the past for us to say, well, look, we have got to grow the pie, and we will retrain those who need retraining. But in fact we have never taken that side of the equation as seriously as we need to take it. So hopefully, this is not just going to be a lot of preaching to the choir. Hopefully, part of what we are going to be doing is challenging our own conventional wisdom and pushing boundaries and testing these ideas in a vigorous and aggressive way.

....Just remember, as we move forward, that there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. There are people in places like Decatur, Illinois, or Galesburg,Illinois, who have seen their jobs eliminated. They have lost their health care. They have lost their retirement security. They don't have a clear sense of how their children will succeed in the same way that they succeeded. They believe that this may be the first generation in which their children do worse than they do. Some of that, then, will end up manifesting itself in the sort of nativist sentiment, protectionism, and anti-immigration sentiment that we are debating here in Washington. So there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. This is not a bloodless process.


It is indeed not bloodless, and now 5 years later we feel the pain. Yes, there are real consequences when you forget about the putting the people first.

There was an article in the Financial Times 2006 about this Hamilton Project. The link has only the title, but no article...but here is part of it.

Rubin wants to lead Democrats' economic course

"Robert Rubin, the former Treasury secretary under President Bill Clinton and most influential Democratic economic adviser, launched an initiative on Wednesday aimed at influencing the economic policy debate and charting a course diametrically opposed to the current policy regime."

..."The Hamilton Project, which will be based at the Brookings Institution, a think-tank, will be run by Peter Orszag, an economist and senior fellow at Brookings. Policy papers unveiled yesterday proposed vouchers for summer schools and giving teachers tenure based on standards for effectiveness. That is not consistent with certain orthodoxies we are familiar with. I think thats a fairly controversial proposal. I wouldnt say thats a yawner, said Mr Altman.

The white paper also called for entitlement reform but acknowledged the political constraints that helped stall Mr Bushs drive to reform Social Security. The principal problem is one of political choice and will and what is most needed is a bipartisan approach for deciding among the options, it said.

Barack Obama, a Democrat senator from Illinois, welcomed the initiative as a way of transcending tired ideologies.


Also in 2006 James K. Galbraith wrote a column about this group. Some of it was pretty scathing. From the Guardian UK:

A speech I'll never give

On the budget deficit, the Hamiltonians echo the unshakeable Brookings Line: deficits must be cut before anything else can happen. We've been around this track so many times that we might for once consider the politics before the merits. The fact that the Republicans do not share this attitude inevitably means that they get what they want and we never get what we want. Even if budget deficits had important economic costs I'd be prepared to pay them, in order to meet some social and environmental objectives in this country.

..."Deficit-fetishism also underscores and bolsters a longstanding insider campaign to cut and partially privatize the Social Security System. The Hamilton Project strategy document doesn't mention Social Security by name. But it is riddled with codewords about the "long-term entitlement problem" which, it avers, can only be solved by a "bipartisan commission" acting on well-known options, behind closed doors.

In fact, Social Security is our most successful social insurance program. It is in better financial shape than ever. No economic or budget imperative requires that it be cut, now or in the reasonably foreseeable future. There is no Social Security crisis, and no real "long-term problem" involving the program. Medicare and Medicaid are also not the worst parts of our health care system; the problem of health care insurance could best be dealt with by expanding, not cutting those programs. The Hamilton Project's promise to deal with these issues by "bi-partisan consensus" behind closed doors is a promise to exclude the voices of labour, the elderly, the poor, and loudmouths like me. I will resist. The correct policy toward Social Security is, and remains, what the late Robert Eisner always recommended: leave it alone.


After those words by Obama in 2006 at the opening of the Hamilton Project,I expected something, some ideas to comfort or ease the pain of the people. But there was nothing said. Here is how he ended his speech.

I think that as long as all of us retain that sense of passion about the ultimate outcome that we want, which is a stronger, more prosperous America than we are passing on to our children, then I think we will do well in this process. I am glad to be a part of it.


He seems to be saying that if they remain strong their policies will prevail, but they need to be aware of the pain being caused. No solutions are offered or discussed for helping that pain.

That is not enough empathy in my mind. That same lack of empathy shows today, I believe. There appears to be little concern for those suffering the pain right now. We are expected to "eat our peas."
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good post
I get the willies around mention of Hamilton, most commonly embraced by right wingers deluded with talk of the Federalist Papers and unconscionable when embraced by the left.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. I know I think of Hamilton that way also. It's really odd they turn to him.
And do our policy in his name.
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
52. Study up on Hamilton
He believed in a strong and effective government. The anti-thesis of the modern Republican.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. These words of his bother me....words about the people.
Excerpts from Alexander Hamilton:

"All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are rich and well born; the other, the mass of the people. The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the unsteadiness of the second; and as they cannot receive any advantage by change, they will therefore maintain good government.

Can a democratic assembly who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and changing disposition requires checks. (1787)

Take mankind in general, they are vicious--their passions may be operated upon... Take mankind as they are, and what are they governed by? There may be in every government a few choice spirits, who may act from more worthy motives. One great error is that we suppose mankind more honest than they are. Our prevailing passions are ambition and interest; and it will be the duty of a wise government to avail itself of those passions, in order to make them subservient to the public good. (1787)

Your people, sir, is a great beast. (1792)

I have an indifferent opinion of the honesty of this country, and ill foreboding as to its future system. (1783)"

http://www.pinzler.com/ushistory/hamjeffpopsupp.html

I am uncomfortable being thought of like that. I believe our president and those who surround him just might have this attitude toward the common people. It would explain why they are so willing to cut the livelihood of the elderly and the needy.
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
97. You are misinterpreting
The second highlighted quote in particular is spot on. Not sure why anyone would object to the idea of a government that can harness individual ambition and channel it into public good. Again this is the anti-thesis of the ideology of the modern Republican party in which "the public" is a fiction and individual ambition is an end in itself.

These quotes merely reflect an attitude that was common among most of the founders -- distrust of "the mob" (they were very familiar with the ancient greek experience with popular democracy). It is the reason why we have checks and balances in a our government that buffer against simple popular rule -- an independent judicial branch, a bill of rights, a separate legislative body with a term of 6 years, etc.

Hamilton's quotes have nothing to do with cutting benefits to the elderly and the needy. They don't express contempt for the people, they only express a need to have checks against their passions and fads when it comes to governing.

I don't think Obama has contempt for the people either. That doesn't strike me as the problem. I think he has good intentions but he is a creature of the current zeitgest -- neoliberalism -- a view of the world that is very much framed by the elites for the interest of the elites. He has not shown the strength or independence of intellect capable of breaking out of that mold.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #54
127. Thanks, Madfloridian -- didn't catch it early enough to K/R --
:hi:
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
104. A good idea to study up
You'll find flounding fathers Hamilton and Madison totally opposed to Jeffersonian ideals and firmly on the side of the wealthy elite. Hamilton was most responsible for abandoning the precepts contained within the Articles of Confederation and sovereign states rights in favor of strong federal centralized control, banking and the exclusive use of force.
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #104
110. That battle was fought 230 years ago
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 07:25 PM by idlisambar
The Constitution was ratified and most people, including Jefferson, moved on. I don't think the Constitution is perfect but I also don't think it reflects inherently elitist ideals.
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Jim Warren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #110
117. Pointless as it is I know
but a good read on this very subject:

Hologram of Liberty
http://www.starvingthemonkeys.com/articles/HologramOfLiberty.html
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
99. Actually, it's not odd. It's sucking up for money.
That's how incompetent losers manage to get into high places.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent! I agree. It's the seniors and the most helpless we need to be focusing on
But unfortunately, we have had piranhas in government, and a right wing tendency in this country from 1980 onward, which sickens the country and sickens me.

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why didn't they tell us this before?
three guesses why not
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roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. FDL wrote about it in Feb. 2008
http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/13/the-hamilton-project-same-corporatist-whine-in-new-dlc-vessels/


"What a party: two free traders duking it out for the nomination.

Tweedle corporatist-Dum, Tweedle corporatist-Dee.
"

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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
71. But of course, people on here hate FDL so this great info gets lost...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #71
118. There is a lot of great stuff at DFL.
Problem is they have been too outspoken.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
78. Here's a really revealing Politico piece on Obama & SS from 2009
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's interesting they'd want to emulate a guy who paid off blackmailers and had shady dealings with
the banksters of the day. K&R
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks mad..another well put together post.
This is "survival of the fittest" in it's pure form. ;( :hurts:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Jim Webb spoke of Rubin's power in 2007
Webb says the future of the Dem party lies in rejecting Rubin wing of party.

Webb lauds freshman power

"He criticized what he called 'the Rubin wing of the Democratic Party,' after Robert E. Rubin, former President Bill Clinton's Treasury secretary, saying those Democrats share the same problem as many Republicans: 'We're not paying attention to what has happened to basic working people in the country.' He said of the freshman Senate Democrats, six of them take a 'populist' view, and said they are bringing needed reinforcements to the Senate: 'We've got a number of us that pretty well see the economic issues the same way. I think that's the Democratic Party of the future."


Unfortunately, it seems he was too optimistic about who had the power.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
129. .
Edited on Sat Jul-23-11 10:24 PM by sudopod
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Adsos Letter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. For some further historical perspective for those interested
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 03:01 PM by Adsos Letter
an excellent book on the original arguments about the relationship between forms of political economy and the long-term survival of a republic:

The Elusive Republic: Political Economy in Jeffersonian America (Published for the Omohundro Institute of Early American Hist) by Drew R. McCoy (1996)

http://www.amazon.com/Elusive-Republic-Political-Jeffersonian-Published/dp/0807846163/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311277719&sr=1-1

A very interesting read, and I recommend it highly.


Edit: changed subject line wording.
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R. Thank you for being a tireless, fearless advocate of our seniors.
Some days, I still can't believe that all of these austerity measures are being pushed through under a Democratic administration. This is unbelievable and we should not support anyone who would seek even hint at harming our nation's elders. They should not be used at pawns in some sort of 3-dimensional chess game where the working class, disabled, and retirees always end up holding the short end of the stick.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It IS unbelievable, and yes we are being used as pawns.
To put it bluntly...we are political pawns.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. From the OP:
".....Republicans do not share this attitude inevitably means that they get what they want and we never get what we want."

You said it sister, and I don't see us getting anything of substance to build on. We'll need to start from scratch
in some areas., unbelievable, really pathetic.

K&R
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roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. Very revealing - thanks for the great post
Here is a video of Barack Obama's speech on April 5, 2006 at the launch of The Brookings Institute's Hamilton Project where Obama says that "most of us are strong free traders":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-5Y74FrDCc






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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thanks for the video link.
:hi:
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. bookmarking thread
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kick and Rec!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. kicking for later - thanks! n/t
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
98. Same here.
back to work. :)
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. this is why he does`t need us in the next election....
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. He really doesn't need us, but he is hurting Democrats down ticket from him.
I have to think he is not listening to them, or else just doesn't care.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Not only doesn't need us - but doesn't WANT us. nt
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. Obama has never needed seniors and frankly, doesn't give two shits.
He won without them.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
100. But young people will not be voting in 2012 like they did in 2008.
That is where he is miscalculating.

Seniors always vote.

Obama appealed to young people in 2008. His young voters still like him, but they are not very interested in politics from what I can tell.

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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Wow. Important post.
Edited on Thu Jul-21-11 04:49 PM by woo me with science
K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Outstanding new interview with Galbraith this month. Government by blackmail.
http://www.istockanalyst.com/business/news/5295650/james-k-galbrait-university-of-texas

"GALBRAITH: Oh, yes. But I was actually just in Washington getting a little flavor of the environment. It is much more divided, much more bitter there. It is not leavened by kind of personal relationships and ability to deal across party lines that used to be there.

And I think because you really have at the core of the Republican party these days an insurrectionary movement - a movement which is really playing with threats that no serious group of members of congress would have made 30 years ago."

"GALBRAITH: There needs to be a clean vote on the debt ceiling, and this method for doing public policy needs to be laid to rest. It is a tremendous threat to the stability of the country, the financial markets. You don't mess with the full faith and credit of the United States government in order to achieve a political objective, and particularly not in order to achieve, for example, completely - say the reduction cutting of Social Security benefits or of Medicare, which are completely unnecessary for any economic purpose.

And that is what we are seeing here, basically a form of government by blackmail.
That needs to be ended. It needs to be made very clear that is a dangerous game and an extremely poor way to make public policy."
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Galbraith is great.
So's his brother. Like their old man. Men of integrity. Wish there were more like them in high office, both elected and appointed.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Aware of his dad, but who is his brother?
Impressed there is another of them.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Peter W. Galbraith -- used to be one of our best in Afghanistan.
From WikiPedia:

Galbraith, considered a close ally of Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. Special Representative to Afghanistan,<7> was announced as the next United Nations' Deputy Special Representative for Afghanistan on March 25, 2009<8> but abruptly left the country in mid September 2009 at the request of UN Special Representative to Afghanistan Kai Eide following a dispute over the handling of the reported fraud in the 2009 Afghan presidential election<9> - and on September 30, the UN announced that he had been removed from his position by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.<10>

In response to his firing, Galbraith told The Times, "I was not prepared to be complicit in a cover-up or in an effort to downplay the fraud that took place. I felt we had to face squarely the fraud that took place. Kai downplayed the fraud.".<11><12> When Eide announced his own stepping down in December, 2009, he did not do so voluntarily, according to Galbraith, though Eide has said it was a voluntary departure.<13>

SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_W._Galbraith
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. ^ Amen ^
Octafish, you rock. *hug*
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Ambassador Galbraith tried to bring peace to Vietnam through Indian PM Nehru.
Amb. Averell Harriman, business associate of George Herbert Walker and Prescott Bush, seemed to have had other ideas.



From The Secret History of the CIA by Joseph Trento:

EXCERPT

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: On instructions from Averell Harriman. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodges own military assistant.

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy. By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, Kenny ODonnell (JFKs appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.

At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Saigon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.

According to Corson, John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters, although Dunns role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodtge for special operations, could act without hindrance.

SOURCE:

The Secret History of the CIA. Joseph Trento. 2001, Prima Publishing. pp. 334-335.



Integrity. More on the subject: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4863411&mesg_id=4866565

PS: Thanks, my Friend! Love ya, Mimosa!
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. Speaking of Galbraith - saw this today
here on DU it was an interview with Real News

J.K. Galbraith and Gang of Six

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=601882&mesg_id=601882
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. I watched that earlier. Great interview.
Straight talk, no talking points.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Stellar work as always, Madflo. You are a huge asset to our community
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
38. Kind words.
And thank you.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. In other words - NeoDems.
Conservatives with a D by their name.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R, but expect to be shouted down.
:kick:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. From 2010 ...who is in both the Obama administration and the Hamilton Project.
From the WP last year.

Brookings Institution-based Hamilton Project relaunches

Ironically, once an administration more open to the group's views arrived in January 2009, the Hamilton Project went dormant, as key staff members went to work in government. The project got a second wind this week, with a relaunch and a new director, and the reasonable expectation that this time around, the relationship to the White House will be much cozier. In fact, Hamilton could emerge as a key source of economic thinking for the Obama administration and the Democratic Congress.

"My experience from inside the government is that Hamilton ideas were pervasive," said Michael Greenstone, the new director of the program and formerly chief economist for the White House Council of Economic Advisers. "That's partially because several people in the administration were previously affiliated with the group, but even in meetings where there was no one in the room that had anything to do with Hamilton, a lot of the very sensible solutions to the country's problems seemed to be emanating from Hamilton."

Peter Orszag, the first director of the program, is now Obama's budget director, Orszag's successor at Hamilton, Jason Furman, is now a key White House aide, and Furman's successor at Hamilton, Doug Elmendorf, is director of the Congressional Budget Office. Vice President Biden spoke at the group's relaunch Tuesday. Greenstone cited medical cost controls in the new health-care law and a budget that freezes discretionary spending as examples of the group's ideas showing up in public policy.

Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Deputy Treasury Secretary Roger Altman were among the key founders of the Hamilton Project, which is named for Alexander Hamilton, the first U.S. treasury secretary.


They wanted to privatize unemployment insurance.

Still, some Hamilton Project ideas, such as a proposal to privatize unemployment insurance, have gotten a cold reception from the left. "That would have been a disaster," Mishel said.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
25. I can't express how much I appreciate your posts.
Thank you for being here.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. ....
That was a nice thing to say. I find myself very passionate about what they are doing to seniors, teachers, and the disabled. Our own party leaders don't seem to care. I guess I am just very angry.

:-)
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. A lot of us are very angry and confused.
You are not alone.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. When many politicians get to the elite levels of Obama
they are out of touch - it takes a truly great politician to keep an eye out for the little people - Roosevelt comes to mind.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R nt
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
35. Why is it that the more I learn, the madder I get?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Because we are getting royally screwed.
That's why.
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roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. and Nader warned us
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #35
70. Just watched his Town Hall Speech and Q&A....He lectured the audience..

about "tightening belts, living within your budget, making hard choices, pain for everyone".. It's become his standard speech and lecturing American people about "tough choices they have to make" and how "it's not up to him...but to the divided government everyone choice in 2010.

What a contrast from Mr. Hope & Change on the campaign trail.

It made me feel sick how superior he seems to think he is talking Think Tank points to people. "Eat your peas...indeed. He's taken on the role of a "stern, overbearing father" who knows best what his children should think and feel.

It made me feel sick... He's giving the same speech over and over so it's what he truly believes.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. When Obama told Hillary she was "likable enough", I had my doubts
about his compassion and empathy. Hillary handled the interviewer's question quite well, but Obama's response was strange. From 2008

http://youtu.be/K3DeCLPwxXI
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
43. REC. nt.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
44. Wow, I learn something new every day -
Shame on me for not knowing about this group and their focus. :cry: For all the DUers who have been asking why O is doing the things he's doing about the debt/SS/Medicare, here it is, the reason why. It is his idealogy, it is what he wants. No one is forcing him to make this deal, no one is pulling one over on him -- this has been the plan, his plan, from the beginning.

Holy shit.

Thank you MF, for bringing this to our attention. This is extremely important information.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. Several of us posted about this in 2006 and 2007, but today it has new meaning.
We are seeing it in action. In fact on a search I found 3 or 4 posts about it here at DU, but its importance did not register like it does now.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. I must have been asleep at the keyboard --
this one totally missed me. Wow, I am, as they say in jolly old England, gobsmacked. I just fired off your work to everyone I know. Thanks again. :hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Thanks for that.
:hi:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
47. Parties change... and parties flip
the Democrat-Republicans (yes the predecessor of the Democrats) have done this three times that I can think off.

Under Jefferson they were an establishment party.

Under Jackson they were a populist party.

During the civil war they were an establishment party

During the gilded age there was little light between the two parties

The Progressive era saw the beginning of the switch towards a populist party, which ended in the New Deal...

See where I am going with this? Rockefeller Republicans left the RNC, guess where they went to? It is way past time people wake up and smell the coffee. We either recapture this party, will take a generation, or wait for a new populist party to emerge, will take a generation.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
48. I am going to keep licking this thing -
until every DUer has a chance to read it. Vital info for understanding what has been going and what we are facing.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. I'll give you a hand. k
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
53. Obama likes Adams not Jefferson...
Adams was the quintessential Federalist and well known for his legal view of the Constitution. So, I guess this follows.

L-
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
55. Kick -
Expose, expose, expose.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
57. Kicking back to page one -
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. k&r
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
59. kick -
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
60. kick
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
61. K&R n/t
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
62. kick
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
63. Alexander Hamilton would be pleased
to see that the seat of American power has returned to his beloved New York.

Wall Street dictates, Washington rubber-stamps.

To activate your crystal ball, just ask yourself "What does Wall Street want?"
Sooner or later that will come to pass and you will be regarded as clairvoyant.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
64. kick
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
65. this part
"...we have got to grow the pie...", sounds eerily close to *ush's quote to "make the pie higher", also made in 2006. hmmmmm.......
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MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
66. Important read for all DUers
K&R
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
67. kick
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
68. K&R
Edited on Fri Jul-22-11 10:57 AM by KoKo
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Yes, that's his schtick. I hope more people realize this...
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
73. kick
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
74. Noticeable lack of the Obama Defense Cabal in this thread.
Hmmmm. They'd probably just dismiss the "rhetoric" anyway (one of them REALLY loves that word!).
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. !
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #74
77. There is way too much evidence in this piece.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. "Prove it."
"That's not evidence, it's rhetorical rhetoric!"
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #79
84. Sarcasm?
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #84
86. mmmmBut of course! (said with exaggerated Fronch accent)
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. hahaha. Thanks I needed a good laugh.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #86
138. I can see the French accent,
but the term you used is actually a patented part of another poster's script. Mild mannered indeed?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #74
102. The Obama Defense Cartel has shrunk -- and rightfully so.
There simply is no defense for what Obama is doing behind our backs.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
75. kick
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
80. kick
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
81. I am totally sick of these Machiavellian Hamiltonian Straussian plutarch pigs.
We need to take a big can of democratic whup ass to these sociopathic freaks.

"But Hamilton also feared the common people,dismissed their capacity for self-government and supported rule by elites instead."

Leo Strauss:

Rule One: Deception

It's hardly surprising then why Strauss is so popular in an administration obsessed with secrecy, especially when it comes to matters of foreign policy. Not only did Strauss have few qualms about using deception in politics, he saw it as a necessity. While professing deep respect for American democracy, Strauss believed that societies should be hierarchical divided between an elite who should lead, and the masses who should follow. But unlike fellow elitists like Plato, he was less concerned with the moral character of these leaders. According to Shadia Drury, who teaches politics at the University of Calgary, Strauss believed that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."

This dichotomy requires "perpetual deception" between the rulers and the ruled, according to Drury. Robert Locke, another Strauss analyst says,"The people are told what they need to know and no more." While the elite few are capable of absorbing the absence of any moral truth, Strauss thought, the masses could not cope. If exposed to the absence of absolute truth, they would quickly fall into nihilism or anarchy, according to Drury, author of 'Leo Strauss and the American Right' (St. Martin's 1999).

http://www.alternet.org/story/15935
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
82. K & R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
83. Top of rec list at Daily Kos. H is for Hoover
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
85. kick
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
88. kick
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
89. We are indebted to you always
for your constant excellence in bringing new questions, information and important connections to light. Thank you for another outstanding example! K & R.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
90. -^-
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
91. K&R
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
92. This is why I didn't see fire in Obama like I do in Kucinich.
I don't want to say he isn't fighting for the people. But that's sure what it sounds like.

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
93. _^_
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
94. Ironically, Hamilton is buried at Trinity Church - where Wall Street begins
Let him stay buried there.

These people would do better to channel Robert Fulton - also buried at Trinity Church - who invented the steamboat. The country needs engineers, scientists, mathematicians, inventors and the like - people who create stuff - more than it needs nimble financial minds. I can testify on the road to Damascus that we have plenty of those.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #94
103. +1
Very nicely said.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #103
109. That's a Friday treat coming from you!
:toast: :hi: :patriot:
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
119. I have repeatedly asked that those you mention run for office-we NEED
to have people who are truly able to understand the long-term results of political actions. I'd like all candidates to be required to undergo testing which would reveal their true character & nature & that the results would be manditory & open to the public.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
95. k&r
:hide:
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
96. _^_
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
101. excellent post
thank you so much. I hadn't heard of the Hamiltonian Dems before so this is an eye opener and would explain a lot. It's too late to recommend but :kick:
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
105. btw - Thom Hartmann used some of these
exact quotes today. I wonder if he read your post or maybe it's just a case of great minds thinking alike. :)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. I don't hear him here until 8 pm
And usually don't turn on the radio then. I wish he were in the afternoon like he used to be. But XM stuck him at 8.
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #106
111. this is the quote that he read online
"Just remember, as we move forward, that there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. There are people in places like Decatur, Illinois, or Galesburg,Illinois, who have seen their jobs eliminated. They have lost their health care. They have lost their retirement security. They don't have a clear sense of how their children will succeed in the same way that they succeeded. They believe that this may be the first generation in which their children do worse than they do. Some of that, then, will end up manifesting itself in the sort of nativist sentiment, protectionism, and anti-immigration sentiment that we are debating here in Washington. So there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. This is not a bloodless process."

I actually listened to his show after the fact on ustream.tv today. I think that his show is rerun for a while after the initial show but later on in the day they just show/run clips.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. Interesting....that is directly from Obama's speech in 2006 to the Hamilton project.
I transcribed it and posted it here. It's available in pdf though for all to read, but I always have to transcribe from pdf...never figured out to copy/paste.

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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
107. Fascinating. I wish I'd seen this before giving him money
The Hamilton Project's promise to deal with these issues by "bi-partisan consensus" behind closed doors is a promise to exclude the voices of labour, the elderly, the poor, and loudmouths like me.

Damn. I didn't see this coming, but it sure is obvious now. So that "Put on my walking shoes" thing was a big, fat, Bushian lie
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The Big Vetolski Donating Member (436 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
108. K&R for another very well-written and thoughtful post. I've never ...
been a big Hamilton fan, in fact, he was such an asshole that in some ways I am sympathetic to Aaron Burr. He was a true bourgoise of his time, who believed that having money somehow conferred traditional aristocratic values upon the moneyholder. Kinda sounds familiar, does it not?

OTOH, there is no question that Hamilton was very personally courageous, and a patriotic American to the core. And, unlike Presidents from Reagan to Obama, he was an avowed protectionist. He believed in high tariffs to protect nascent American industries from the emerging industrial power of the British Empire. An early Pat Buchanan, if you will, but I actually agree with Buchanan on that particular point. That's about it, though, Pat.

Hamilton would have been horrified by NAFTA and CAFTA and other American job-destroying treaties. In fact, he probably would have been horrified by the very idea of multinational corporations. Or the idea of corporate personhood.

IOW, these "Hamiltonian Democrats" cherry pick what they like about Hamilton, and ignore the rest. And they have so little honor that Hamilton himself would probably challenge them to a duel, with Andrew Jackson as his second. Too bad that can't happen, I'd bet on Hamilton and Jackson. For that matter, so would Aaron Burr. And Thomas Jefferson would laugh from the sidelines and actually cheer Hamilton on.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. Love your last paragraph.
:hi:
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #108
114. I agree and disagree
I think Hamilton is getting a bad rap there in your first paragraph. Hamilton came from very humble beginnings compared to the other founders. He scratched and clawed for everything he got in life. He was not an elitist in the least, probably the least elitist of the founders, in background and in attitude.

Aaron Burr on the other hand was nothing but a standard issue politician, a Mitt Romney type who deserves no sympathy. Hamilton's last great service to the nation was to end Burr's political career.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. These words of Hamilton did sound elitist to me.
"All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are rich and well born; the other, the mass of the people. The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the government. They will check the unsteadiness of the second; and as they cannot receive any advantage by change, they will therefore maintain good government.

Can a democratic assembly who annually revolve in the mass of the people, be supposed steadily to pursue the public good? Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy. Their turbulent and changing disposition requires checks. (1787)

Take mankind in general, they are vicious--their passions may be operated upon... Take mankind as they are, and what are they governed by? There may be in every government a few choice spirits, who may act from more worthy motives. One great error is that we suppose mankind more honest than they are. Our prevailing passions are ambition and interest; and it will be the duty of a wise government to avail itself of those passions, in order to make them subservient to the public good. (1787)"

http://www.pinzler.com/ushistory/hamjeffpopsupp.html
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. IMO, Hamilton was the original bankster boy.
The prosperity of commerce is now perceived and
acknowledged by all enlightened statesmen to be the most
useful as well as the most productive source of national
wealth, and has accordingly become a primary object of its
political cares.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 12, November 27, 1787
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idlisambar Donating Member (916 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #115
122. I'll have to grant you much of the argument there
Though Hamilton was not a member of the elite like Jefferson, the quotes are clear - Hamilton's vision acknowledged a role for elites. Hamilton wanted our own version of the house of lords in the United States that was insulated from the "turbulent and changing disposition" of the masses. This is basically what the Senate is. I would argue that he is basically correct. Imagine, for instance, if we didn't have a Senate and after this past election the Tea Party Republicans had complete control of our legislature. More generally, the standard of debate and discourse has always been higher in the Senate.

However, notice that Hamilton is expressing that there is an advantage to elites having a "share in the government" to check "the imprudence of Democracy". He is mainly arguing that elites are a useful as a stabilizing force in the government. This is very different from advocating on behalf of Oligarchy or even Meritocracy, because in Hamilton's vision the people would also provide a check on the interests of the elites.

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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
120. kick for exposure -
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #120
121. Thanks.
Appreciated.

:hi:
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
123. K&R
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
124. Kick.
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historylovr Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
125. Kick
I don't even *like* peas.

Seriously though, very important post.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
126. Kick for being the best indicator of our President's politics.
That they are closer to nixon than Truman can be fully explained here.

Thanks Mad for a very valuable piece of digging. Everyone on DU should read this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #126
131. It is pretty obvious.
with all the DLC, Third Way, and Hamilton Project Dems....we are pretty much screwed.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #126
139. "... the best indicator of our President's politics."
Using the lens of the Hamilton Democrats O's actions from the very beginning make perfect sense. I saw so many here genuinely confused and unsure as to why he would do certain thanks. I think the 11th dimension chess/rope-a-dope/Jedi Master theories sprung out of attempt to make sense of his most confounding actions. No need for such theories now, we know the truth.
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
128. Is this for real?
I'm reading the Illuminatus! trilogy at the moment, so something like this kind of blows my mind. O_o
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Dragonfli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. fjord
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sudopod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #132
136. :3 nt
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-11 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
130. I wish I could give this 1000 recs.
:applause:
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
133. One of the best posts I have ever read in almost 10 years on this site. n/t
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #133
135. agrees +1
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #133
150. +100000
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
134. kick this was great
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Yon_Yonson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
137. Great read and thanks for sharing that
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
140. ...
Thanks!!
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
141. kick
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
142. kick
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
143. Kick. Everybody just read the post. It is important.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
144. Too late to rec, but this is one of the best posts
so far explainging who this President really is.

It seems he has an ideology rather than ideas. He certainly doesn't sound like someone who has no passion about what he believes in this speech. On the contrary he sounds very passionate, a true believer, and willing to fight for what he believes.

It's been obvious for a long time now that he had no passion for some of the things he gave lip-service to and that was our argument all along. You fight for what you believe in.

It seems this President has been doing that all along. And he gave us many clues, his admiration for Reagan, his putting down of FDR and inaccurate accounting of what FDR actually did.

Thank you Madfloridian for another truly excellent post. Everyone should have this bookmarked imo. To produce when we hear the tired old arguments that he really is fighting for us, he's just trying to confuse the other side. :eyes:

:kick:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #144
156. Yes, I think it is truly who he is.
And I honestly believe he works in the best interests of the rich and the corporate world, not for us.
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CrazyBob Donating Member (118 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
145. Good post!-nt
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
146. Time to eat the Austerity peas and don't dare complain that they're
shriveled and moldy.

Sorry I saw this too late to recommend, but I appreciate you sharing this.
Wish I had known about it years ago.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #146
147. It's pretty eye-opening.
:hi:

"austerity peas" :evilgrin:
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #147
148. It sure is
Austerity peas - G20's choice of dinner. That is, for us.
I'm sure they'll still dine lavishly.

:hi:
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
149. Kick to the top .... a must read
Excellent job, madfloridian

bookmarked as well
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. Thanks, I thought of his 2006 speech when he spoke last night.
Sounded about the same state of mind. :shrug:
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
151. Kick in light of the speech -
Wake up, people.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
153. Kick because it becomes more valid every day.
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Shining Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
154. Big kick!
Thank you. :)
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
155. kick
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
157. "This is not a bloodless process..."
That's the kind of comment that might encourage a response that could get someone arrested.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #157
158. He knows what he's doing will hurt seniors, the poor, and needy....
and I don't think he even cares.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. I think he cares, but not very much
Edited on Thu Jul-28-11 02:30 PM by demwing
I think he has a "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality that comes from rising above his roots.

Similar to the way an ex-smoker cares about people smoking, but can't understand why everyone doesn't just STOP. "If I can do it, you can too..."
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
160. Bookmarked. Important post about the true agenda of the enigma we call Barack Obama
Just as only Nixon could go to China, only Obama (or Clinton) could privatize Social Security.

Here's to the stronger more prosperous America we're taking from our seniors and handing to Wall Street, Barack. Congratulations - you may The One who does it.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
161. K&R. Very important post.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
162. madfloridian, I just wanted to offer a belated thank you for this post.
I learned so much from following up the various links in it. Even though it confirms my worst suspicions about President Obama, in a paradoxical way I feel less depressed than I was. My suspcions have been replaced with facts, with objective on-the-record information that can't be debated. It has given me the ability to stand up to the Obama apologists on another forum when they accuse me of being paranoid and/or wallowing in negativity. I know now that I have to oppose Obama's efforts to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medi-Cal the same as I would do with a Republican. And that I have to oppose his re-election too, although I had already made up my mind about that.
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