"Time for old folks to eat their peas and catfood."

[MannyGoldstein]

Social Security has zero fiscal problems - the claim that it will need to reduce payments by 20% in 26 years is based on http://www.handsoffss.org/will-social-security-go-bankrupt-in-the-future.html">assuming that the economy will soon get much worse, and stay that way for good.

Social Security has zero to do with the debt. In fact, it's forbidden by law from contributing to the debt.

But http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20079911-503544.html">Social Security is about to get gutted under the guise of this pretend debt crisis. Even though it has nothing to do with this crisis, even if it were a real crisis.

Pete Peterson, the Republicans, and Obama will finally be able to grab the $2.6 trillion (and growing) trust fund, the largest single bank account in the world. They'll feast on fois gras and $350 bottles of wine, and light their cigars with $100,000 bills. Well done!

Old people: enjoy your peas and cat food.

[ProSense]

1. Here:

Pelosi Remarks Following Democratic Caucus Meeting Today

Washington, D.C. – Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi, Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer, Assistant Democratic Leader James E. Clyburn, Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson, Democratic Caucus Vice Chair Xavier Becerra, and Budget Committee Ranking Member Chris Van Hollen held a media availability this morning following a Democratic Caucus meeting in the Capitol Visitor Center. Below are the Leader’s remarks and a transcript of a brief question and answer session:

Leader Pelosi’s Remarks:

“Thank you very much, Mr. Becerra. To both of my colleagues, the Chairman and the distinguished Vice Chairman of the Caucus: Yes, teamwork pays off. It did last night for the Democrats in the baseball game and for women’s soccer team, and we are very proud of both of them.

“I’m very proud of our House Democratic Caucus. I wish that all of you could have heard the knowledge, the respect of the values that they are bringing over and over again to this discussion, most currently this morning. We stand with the President of the United States in the hope that we could have a ‘grand bargain’ that takes us well into the future with deficit reduction.

“I remind you that it was only a week ago that we were hopeful that this could happen in a bipartisan way. Thursday, we left the meeting—of last week—we left the meeting with some spirit of cooperation that we could work on a ‘grand bargain’ for great deficit reduction so that we could move on to job creation. Friday, we were working on that. Saturday, the Republicans walked away from that. And since then, we’ve been trying to find out if that’s still possible and if not, what is possible. But whatever is possible, and it’s not possible for us to reduce the deficit and create jobs on the backs of America’s working families.

“So we continue to say to the President: ‘Congratulations. We are proud of the work you are doing, and we are glad that it does not reduce benefits for Medicare and Social Security beneficiaries.’ It doesn’t mean we are not open to initiatives that will strengthen those, Medicare and Social Security, that will cut cost and keep them solvent for a longer period of time. But we are not reducing the deficit on the backs, and give tax cuts to the wealthy, on the backs of our Social Security and Medicare recipients.

“When I came to the table two days ago, I brought with me the priorities expressed to me by a large number of students who came to my office the other day. They said, ‘We know the deficit is not good for our future. We all stand ready to help reduce it, think everybody should participate in that. We hope you won’t diminish the prospects we have for college education. We want you to know how important Medicare and Medicaid are to our families. It enables them to allow us to go to college by taking some of the fear out of health care costs for them. And of course if you are young and you are in college or you are newly graduated, jobs jobs, jobs, jobs—they are important to you. So don’t do anything that impedes the economic growth.’ Their wisdom is so clear.

“But what we saw at the table was an attempt by the Republicans to increase the cost to students by over 30 billion dollars without taking one red cent of sacrifice from the wealthiest people in our country, from corporations sending jobs overseas, tax subsidies for Big Oil.

“So again, our Caucus focused on our priorities, which are based on our values. We support our President for the ‘grand bargain.’ We hope that can still happen, and we know that it will happen—whatever happens, we will not be reducing benefits to Medicare and Social Security recipients.

“With that I am pleased to yield to the leader in charge of ‘Make It In America’ in terms of job creation, our distinguished Whip, Steny Hoyer.”

<...>

As one GOP Rep said re McConnell's plan: Dude, You Gave Our Debt Hostage to Obama!

[MannyGoldstein]

3. "that will cut costs"

Only way to cut costs is to cut benefits. Costs are already well under 1% of revenues.

"Strengthen" always means "cut". (But http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0707/Briefing-room-word-games-What-s-a-slash-versus-a-cut-in-Social-Security">not slash right? Cut. Not slash.)

[ProSense]

8. "Only way to cut costs is to cut benefits." Actually

that's the only way in the world of spin.

There are other ways.

To quote Krugman: "Oh, and for all those older Americans who voted GOP last year because those nasty Democrats were going to cut Medicare, I have just one word: suckers!"

This appears to be happening again.

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Your links have nothing to do with Social Security

Focus.

[bvar22]

12. LOL.

Couldn't help it.
I just had to laugh at your terse and spot on response.
:patriot:

[woo me with science]

34. LOL.

My experience exactly on the other board.

[Enthusiast]

55. The relevance of links is................irrelevant.

:rofl:

[ProSense]

74. That's OK

the OP has nothing to do with reality.

Reminds me of the hyperventilating about an announcement of cuts to Social Security in the SOTU.

Or was that about the 2012 SOTU?

[MannyGoldstein]

78. Obama said is was OK to cut Social Security in the 2011 SOTU address

Remember? It's OK to cut it, but not "slash" it.

Can we agree that Obama's word games are as sophomoric as they are dangerous?

From the SOTU address: "We must do it without putting at risk current retirees, the most vulnerable, or people with disabilities; without slashing benefits for future generations;"

And here's the administration defining a "slash": http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0707/Briefing-room-word-games-What-s-a-slash-versus-a-cut-in-Social-Security">Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security?

[Fire1]

14. Always. It doesn't take much. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

76. No way. I think you're applying the term "benefits" in an odd way. I hope they make big CUTS.

The right kinds of cuts, the cuts that IMPROVE the actual care (benefits).

I witness the ins and outs of Medicare "benefits" and costs every day, Manny.

And, to my mom or my dad, it is decidedly NOT a benefit that so much data has to be transcribed by hand, where mistakes can be made, instead of a more reliable and speedy electronic system could be used.

It's not a "benefit" that the wrong kind of meds are provided because there's shitty oversight or the wrong kinds of incentive.

Benefits.

Tell it to my mom who's in a CCU as I type this.

x(

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

2. "gutted?"

And not all old people are poor.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Gutted. Obama's commission recommended a 22% cut in benefits

for the average recipient over time.

[Fire1]

5. "Over time" are the operative words. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

6. So larger cuts for future old people are OK?

It's going to get cut plenty for current retirees too.

[Fire1]

13. Oh, so they're going to reduce payments AND extend the

age of eligibility. I think I'll wait for the results and not faint over speculation.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. So one is OK but not the other?

If we wait, it'll be too late.

[Fire1]

19. Then I think we better call the congress critters like the t.v. ad

suggests.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. I've called my elected representatives

and told them that raising the age or reducing COLAs count as a cut.

Have you?

[WinkyDink]

15. Right. The "operative words" are "CUT IN BENEFITS."

[Fire1]

18. Cuts can come in a myriad of ways. n/t

[indurancevile]

70. Benefits were already cut 19% "over time" by Reagan.

Changes enacted by Congress in the 1980s to ensure the long-term solvency of Social Security will cut retirement benefits by 19 percent for workers born in 1960 and later, and more cuts could undermine the basic economic security of future retirees, a new report said today.

http://starglobaltribune.com/2011/social-security-cuts-in-social-security-benefits-of-future-retirees-feared-9962

So add on another 22% cut of what's already been cut, & we find Gen X receiving about half of what the greatest generation did.

and 2/3 of elderly already rely on social security for more than half their retirement income. 1/3 rely on it for more than 90% of their income.

and that's the generations who were still getting those defined benefit & state retirements.

young people are slitting their own throats.

[eilen]

85. um no, we are not slitting our own throats

This is not our choice.

This is a continuing degradation of pay, benefits, family and society we have been conditioned to expect from 1965. Every year we are dazzled with another shit storm. People wonder why X-gen is cynical and pissed off all the time and why we do not trust anything anyone tells us. We are always waiting for the next shoe to drop. We are not surprised to be abandoned in our old age, hell, we were abandoned in our young age. So Obama and his Republican frenemies, whether he be Boomer or Jonser and his buddies can all fuck off. They have theirs so they feel just fine telling us to get screwed.

We are given no real choices in elections and then blamed for the results in a gamed system. So leave us the hell alone and allow us to do what we do best, try to provide some modicum of a future for our kids so they don't end up in some for profit prison, in some godawful mountain range or desert battlefield in the Middle East or an equally dangerous and depressing refugee camp on the Canadian or Mexican border.
<end rant>

[treestar]

7. Reminds me of the commission from way back

DU was getting hysterical, then many pointed out that the commission just floats ideas.

[bvar22]

16. "floats ideas"....like trial balloons,

to see how much they can get away with.

I can't believe that DUers are supporting cuts of ANY size or nature to Social Security
simply because it is their guy who is holding the knife.
WTF?

If MORE Democrats had expressed their outrage at the Cat Food Commission,
perhaps we could have forced them to back off,
but apparently, its ALL GOOD for some misguided Centrists.

Do you realize that this will affect YOU and your children also?

[Fire1]

20. Yeah, I like that one too. They want me to get upset over

"floating ideas." Nah.

[Zenlitened]

64. Those "many" appear to have been wrong, in that...

...the ideas from these commissions often float directly to the drafting desk.

Pres. Obama from today's news conference:

And so what we’ve said is a lot of the components of Bowles-Simpson we are willing to embrace -- for example, the domestic spending cuts that they recommend we’ve basically taken. Others, like on defense, we have taken some but not all the recommendations, because it’s important for it to be consistent with our defense needs and our security needs.

Link:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/07/15/press-conference-president

[OwnedByFerrets]

10. Huge K and R

[ClarkUSA]

22. Who are you quoting? Yourself? Where are your facts? Quote Pres. Obama.

Your subjective opinions are not facts. This OP is nothing but a smear against President Obama.

[ClarkUSA]

23. Here is a fact: President Obama is targeting Big Pharm for cuts and they're squealing like pigs.

My apologies to all pigs.

Drugmakers led by Pfizer Inc. (PFE) and Merck & Co. were targeted for Medicare cuts by President Barack Obama as lawmakers push to agree on a deficit plan. The industry predicted “startling” job losses would result.

Pharmaceutical companies “are still doing very well through the Medicare program,” Obama said today at a news conference. “Although we have made drugs more available at a cheaper price to seniors who are in Medicare through the Affordable Care Act, there’s more work to potentially be done.”

The drug industry contributed $80 billion toward the cost of last year’s health-care law, helping Democrats make up for new spending in the bill. With cuts to Medicaid and Medicare on the table as part of deficit talks, the industry may have to give up more as an Aug. 2 deadline looms.

“It’s extremely unfortunate that President Obama continues to push for a policy that could destabilize the successful Medicare Part D program and have a devastating effect on American jobs,” said Karl Uhlendorf, vice president of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, the drug industry’s Washington lobbying group. “Startling potential job losses could result from policy proposals that would undermine the business foundations of biopharmaceutical companies.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=711891&mesg_id=711891

[MannyGoldstein]

24. And what does that have to do with Social Security?

Focus.

[ClarkUSA]

25. It's a fact. Try it sometime. What does your OP have to do with President Obama?

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Obama is cutting - but not slashing - Social Security. Not slashing. Cutting.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0707/Briefing-room-word-games-What-s-a-slash-versus-a-cut-in-Social-Security">Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security?

So, a reporter asked, what does “slash” mean?

“Haven’t you got, like, a dictionary app on your iPhone?” Carney replied.

Q: Well, it’s a word that you use instead of “cut.”

Carney: “Slash” is, I think, quite clear. It’s slash. It’s like that. (Carney makes a slashing motion with his hand.) It’s a significant whack.

Q: So it means a significant …

Carney: I’m not going to put a numerical figure on it.

Q: So it means a significant cut.

Carney: I think slashing is a pretty sharp, direct …

Q: It’s not the same thing as cutting – the point is, it’s not the same thing as “cut.”

Carney: It’s slash. (Laughter.) And I don’t mean the guitarist. (Laughter.)

Q: A pledge to not slash benefits is not the same thing as a pledge to not cut benefits.

Carney: I’m not – again, we’re talking about a policy enunciated by the president back in January, and that is …

Q: This is a diction you guys have chosen.

Carney: No, no, I get that, and we did choose it, and the president used it. But I’m not here to negotiate the semantics …

Q: Just so everybody understands – just so everybody understands, when you say “slash,” you don’t mean “cut.”

Carney: We have said that to address the long-term solvency of the problem – of the program, because this is not an issue that drives short- or medium-term deficits, that we would look – the president is interested in looking at ways to strengthen the program and enhance its long-term solvency that protects the integrity of the program and doesn’t slash benefits.

Q: Which is not the same thing as not cutting benefits.[/div

[ClarkUSA]

28. What exactly is he "cutting" as per the final budget deal you seem to have access to?

:sarcasm:

[MannyGoldstein]

30. He's cutting Social Security

Pretty clear.

[ClarkUSA]

31. Really? What EXACTLY is he cutting? You are not answering my question.

Perhaps Monica Crowley and you should get together and figure out whether facts are essential to your rather similar claims:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1499062&mesg_id=1499534

:sarcasm:

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Here:

I think I found something that might address this at a level that works for you:

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. “Yes, I’m going to roll back the Bush tax cuts for the very wealthiest Americans.”

Remember those buffoons who said he wasn't going to do it?

Or those pinheads who said the stimulus bill was way to small - it should be at least as large as the banker bailouts in order get the economy back on track?

[ClarkUSA]

37. Red herrings are such a bore. It's clear you have not one fact to back your OP up.

[indurancevile]

71. i'm interested in seeing your evidence that obana is going after big pharma.

i haven't seen anythng that would make me believe that.

[MannyGoldstein]

80. Buzz kill.

You ruined it.

[indurancevile]

89. ?

[TBF]

63. Focus means one thing to some:

"say whatever I can that is positive about PO no matter what the topic is and whether it is relevant". And of course it also involves blue links to nowhere. They got nothing.

[babylonsister]

27. Unrec. because you sound like Monica Crowley...

:eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x712015

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

39. LOL

See my reply below for the specifics on Obama's 2T plan.

[stevedeshazer]

35. +1

Thanks, Manny. I agree.

[mzmolly]

38. Obama's 2T plan does not include cutting SS benefits. It does include tax

increases.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-07-14-obama-debt-ceiling_n.htm">USA TODAY

"In Obama's $2 trillion plan, tax increases would come from a 35% limit on itemized deductions and the elimination of special-interest tax breaks for oil and gas companies, corporate jet owners and producers of ethanol. If tax rates on upper-income people returned to 36% and 39.6% in 2013, as Obama wants, the limit on deductions would save about $120 billion.

Obama also is seeking to extend a payroll tax cut enacted last December for another year and possibly extend it to small businesses. For that reason, Republicans could claim that the package is revenue-neutral rather than representing a tax increase — but at the meeting, Republicans still refused to go along.

The remainder of the package would be spending cuts and savings on interest, but not the major reductions in Medicare or Social Security that Obama had been (supposedly) willing to accept as part of a $4 trillion deal."

[MannyGoldstein]

40. " not the *major* reductions..."

One must read this administrations press releases *very* carefully.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0707/Briefing-room-word-games-What-s-a-slash-versus-a-cut-in-Social-Security|Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security?>

[mzmolly]

41. ... which is why I suppose he mentioned a means test.

A means test would technically "cut" spending, but not slash/cut benefits for those in need.

[MannyGoldstein]

45. When did Obama mention a means test for Social Security?

A link would be appreciated, thanks.

[mzmolly]

49. I believe it was in relation to medicare.

Though SS does have an income cap that I believe may be raised or perhaps eliminated?

Admittedly, I get confused between income caps and means testing. ;)

[MannyGoldstein]

50. This thread is about Social Security

There's been a little discussion about raising the cap, but mostly around cuts.

Which is disgusting, since Social Security has zero to do with the debt.

[mzmolly]

51. Good news...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-07-14-obama-debt-ceiling_n.htm

In Obama's $2 trillion plan, tax increases would come from a 35% limit on itemized deductions and the elimination of special-interest tax breaks for oil and gas companies, corporate jet owners and producers of ethanol. If tax rates on upper-income people returned to 36% and 39.6% in 2013, as Obama wants, the limit on deductions would save about $120 billion.

Obama also is seeking to extend a payroll tax cut enacted last December for another year and possibly extend it to small businesses. For that reason, Republicans could claim that the package is revenue-neutral rather than representing a tax increase — but at the meeting, Republicans still refused to go along.

The remainder of the package would be spending cuts and savings on interest, but not the major reductions in Medicare or Social Security that Obama had been willing to accept as part of a $4 trillion deal.

[eridani]

65. I accept NO reductions in Medicare or Social Security

Medicare is already means-tested.

[mzmolly]

67. PARTS of medicare are

means tested.

Reductions to whom? Drug companies?

[eridani]

69. Part B is means tested at $170K for couples and $85K for singles

Lowering that to, say, $60K and $30K is flat out unacceptable. And if he wanted to negotiate Medicare prices with drug companies, why did he not lobby for this in PPACA, where it might have done some good?

[ClarkUSA]

42. Thanks for another FACT, mzmolly. I hope you post an OP to counteract the fearmongering.

:hi:

[mzmolly]

43. Feel free C.

I'm taking taking a short OP vacation. ;)

[Lil Missy]

44. Try breathing into a paper bag. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

46. You're right. Gutting Social Security is not worth getting worked up over.

Not.

[Lil Missy]

47. Make shit up much? Means testing DOES NOT constitute gutting SS. You're hyperventilating.

[MannyGoldstein]

48. Link please.

I haven't seen a quote that means testing is being proposed, let alone that this is the only cut being proposed.

[Lil Missy]

52. Read today's news yourself. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

53. I did. Don't see it. nt

[eridani]

66. Yes, it does. It turns Social Security into a welfare program

Do you even CARE what the acronym FICA stands for? The initials stand for Federal Insurance Contributions Act. If you pay an insurance premium, you are entitled to a payout, period. If you total your car, the insurance company is not allowed to look at your assets and tell you that they think you have enough to buy a new car without their help. Turning insurance that everybody pays for and everybody collects from into welfare is a solid start on destroying Social Security.

Besides which, there are not enough wealthy oldsters to make much difference to long term solvency, and payouts are already capped at $28.5K.

[indurancevile]

72. social security is already means tested. last year 24 billion was kicked back into

the trust fund from taxation of benefits.

[JoePhilly]

75. +100 ... You could get rich selling fainting couches around here.

[Enthusiast]

54. "the largest single bank account in the world."

That is all anyone needs to know.

[Autumn]

56. Yeah but Manny it's not so bad

at least we might not get "the major reductions in Medicare or Social Security that Obama had been willing to accept as part of a $4 trillion deal."

Fuck his peas. It's pretty dam offensive he was willing to consider accepting it.

[MannyGoldstein]

57. Glad we're only getting lesser reductions

Astonishing. Really.

[Fire1]

61. Who says he was willing to make those reductions or extend

the age of eligibility?? I've heard him at every press conference and every time he's on t.v. and not once have I heard him say that!! Just because he "put it on the table" doesn't mean he was going to use it!! Hell, he put his presidency on the table!! Are you people that gullible??!! Don't you know a bluff when you see one??!!

Just because he wants to make some "adjustments" OVER TIME to extend the life of these benefits for future generations doesn't mean he would make some callus decision that he knows damn well would adversely affect 50 million americans. Come on!! Have a LITTLE faith in the man!! He knows SS and medicare are not part of this debt and has no plans to use it toward extinguishing or reducing the debt this country has accumulated over the last eight years. I just don't think he would do that.

[Autumn]

68. Try reading. That just might give you an idea

of what is being said. I don't give a shit if you have "heard him at every press conference and every time he's on t.v. and not once have I heard him say that". Have you ever listened to what other people have heard him say? Talk about gullible. Quit pretending he's playing poker. He's not. "faith in the man" that's a laugh. It fucking has nothing to do with the deficit, NOTHING. He had no business offering SS or Medicare up to the table. Why give those fucking republicans that. Poker my ass.

[Fire1]

73. I HAVE read AND listened, otherwise, I wouldn't know that

SS & medicare have nothing to do with the debt and stated that in my post. YOU should try reading before you post. Negotiations are nothing more than one big poker game. Have you ever been in a union? Ask somebody. If you want to believe it, that's your prerogative but I DON'T! Stop listening to the voices in your head.

[cottonseed]

58. Aren't you one of the biggest advocates here for economic contraction?

It seems that you're convinced that the economy is done for over the next 20 years so couldn't this forecast have some accuracy to it?

[MannyGoldstein]

59. Last year, GDP grew 2.9%

And that was a shitty year, no? If GDP growth stays at 2.9%, which is below the historical average, then Social Security is fully solvent as far as the eye can see.

The Obama/Geithner projection uses sustained 2.1% average growth to show that benefits will drop by 20% starting in 26 years. We have never had anywhere near as low as 2.1% growth for more than a year or two.

[cottonseed]

60. Oh. So you have high hopes for the US economy? Once the Obama plan takes effect?

That's good to know. With a roaring economy and the benefits of the healthcare bill coming to fruition over the next few decades I guess you believe that SS# will actually be flush with cash. It's a win win really!

[TheKentuckian]

62. That is a pretty silly misrepresentation of the poster's thoughts

Being too distracted or disinterested to wonder why the long term projections are so out of step with past performance doesn't mean it isn't a really critical question.

[WatsonT]

77. Does SS put excess funds in to government bonds?

Those are money that must be paid back. So in a backdoor way it does contribute to the debt.

[MannyGoldstein]

79. No different from any other treasury bonds

The government generally borrowed money. It must be generally paid back.

[WatsonT]

81. Right, but that's still debt that must be paid back

so saying it contributes nothing to the debt isn't entirely accurate.

[MannyGoldstein]

83. I meant that it has never added to the deficit

and never can, by law.

Spending on other things is what created the debt.

[bluestate10]

82. Another outlandish headline in an OP. But when the truth comes out

the criers will be no where to be found, or will change their tune and attack along another bullshit front. Obama is not gutting SS and Medicare. I don't unrec, so the boiling hot stream of liquid dog**** won't get one action that it so deserves.

[Faryn Balyncd]

84. K and R....and the axe of choice appears to be a "binding commission" (Catfood II) in the debt deal

[Cleita]

86. Make that just peas. Cat food is pretty expensive these days. n/t

[Bryn]

88. Ooops! Didn't see your post before I posted mine

Food for my cats went up!! Yes, eat just peas!

[Bryn]

87. Cat Food is no longer cheap, did you know?

Prices for pet food have gone up!

[lib2DaBone]

90. Yup.. it's on the way... the order has gone out from the Koch Bros..

Mr. Obama, Pete Peterson and Alan Simpson are going to kill Social Security. It's a done deal. We are just waiting for the shoe to drop.

We are waiting until the evening of Aug 1st,(when the debt ceiling time limit expires) then Obama and his henchmen will whip a solution on us that includes killing Social Security in the name of the good of the country. Wait for it.. here it comes...

Does anyone remember G.W. Bush and his threat.. "If we don't take action.. there will be a mushroom cloud over America in 40 minutes."? Remember that one?

How about hours before the Banksters were going to go belly up in 2008... "We must pass TARP ($700 Billion) to stabilize America and bring Freedom"... lol...ya.. sure.. we KNOW where that went!

The same thing is happening now.