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Unless I'm missing something, it seems I owe the president an apology.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:08 PM
Original message
Unless I'm missing something, it seems I owe the president an apology.
Though I never came right out and said "He's going to kill SS and Medicare," I certainly made the argument that he was heading in that direction, and that it was all too possible he was going to give away the store.

Well, unless something truly insane happens, it appears Mr. Obama played the GOP like a fiddle on this debt-limit thing. So far, so good.

My apologies, sir.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. For handing the Senate to the repukes on a silver platter?
Well, then apologize away.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How do you see that happening?
?
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. When a Dem running for the senate talks about preserving medicare and social security and how
the repukes want to kill both (which they do), that repuke can throw back Obama's words from this past week...he's taken away the Dems' strongest selling point...everything Obama does is all about Obama, because by selling dems out this week he got the pundits to fawn over him...it may help him in 2012, but it screws over the rest.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yep.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I'm not sure I agree.
Obama got a big fat earful from pretty much the entire Dem caucus when he coughed up that proposal. I think they can stand on their record and their statements when campaign time comes around. We'll see. I think it's too early for anyone to be winding funeral shrouds around anything, but as the OP indicates, I've been wrong before. :)
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Post the exact quote they'll throw back at Obama.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. I'd like to see that too...
I don't think the poster has quite wrapped their mind around what just went down.

So many had themselves convinced this was a horrific act on Obama's part, they were blind to the game plan and the GOTP's options.

From my POV... the GOTP have no real options left. If they continue in their current 'everything Obama does is bad, bad, bad' mode, and I'm betting they most certainly will, anything they say or do on this matter going forward can only make them look all the more anti-American, anti 'we the people' and incredibly greedy and foolish.

Everything the government does on behalf of we the people will be negotiated between the two main ruling parties, it has always been so. What concerns me some is this 'we've been used as pawns' meme... it has always been so with these issues. Throwing this into the mix now looks foolish, IMHO. It's as if someone was born yesterday.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
55. When was the last time you heard a Democratic President offering SS and Medicare cuts?
We weren't born yesterday.

This shit storm hasn;t even started yet. Wait until campaign season is in full swing:

http://mediamatters.org/research/201107130001
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
54. Here's quite a few articles for you
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Yup Yup, he put it on the table and they will never let it go.
He play no one like a fiddle, he caved.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. DING! DING! DING! Stop With The GAME PLAYING! I'm Tired Of Trying
to figure out what's up or down anymore! GET SPECIFIC or SHUT-UP!
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. That's just not how politics work. Have you been watching what's been
going on for the past few decades? :eyes:
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. When have the Republicans given up anything, ever? That's what I thought
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
95. I agree with Mr. Pitt's post #8. I don't believe that it will turn the senate
over to the repubkes.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
91. If Obama gets the debt ceiling raised without hurting SS and Medicare
and without huge cuts that harm those who can least afford it, he will have HELPED the Democrats retain the Senate. This battle has forced the Republicans to show their values. This might be used by vulnerable Democrats - like Ben Nelson, who said he would not vote to cut Medicare and SS to contrast that with the fact that ALL the Republicans voted for the Ryan budget which guts Medicare. The public is NOT with the Republicans here. (Not to mention, once the Democrats get a candidate - this argument may make the choice on issues clear enough that even with all the good press, Scott Brown will be one and done.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am still outraged by what he did and will issue no apology.
And it is still unclear whether the music will really emerge from the fiddle.

If he gets a raised debt ceiling without hurting SS and Medicare, without losing the end of the Dubya tax cuts, and without big cuts to necessary spending, good. I'll vote for him in 2012. But I will not work for his reelection, as I did in 2008.

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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. How is this helpful to you?
You make it more difficult for the better of two prospective candidates, from your own point of view, to win. How is this not shooting yourself in the foot. What is your rationale for encouraging the worse of two evils? To make a point? To whom?
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. not an easy thing for many people
to do, or very common these days.

bravo, Will Pitt.

:hi:
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's also the way I see it, Will.
We are, of course, in the minority. The "Ready, Fire, Aim" brigade has already convicted the President of misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance in office.)
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. People like to think and say that the president is naive because he
thinks he can work with the repukes. WRONGO, on so many levels. He is smart. He knows who they are and what their agenda is. He is the one who warned all of us to not give the keys back to the same people who drove us into the ditch in the first place. He did his part. He can't make people listen. It's our country too. We all have our part and if we're foolish enough to let the repukes control the agenda, then how is it that we can blame the president for the outcome?
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
74. i just keep mouth shut, listen to the battles and wait to see what is going on.
no sense jumping in when we dont have the info
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. We don't know what the deal will be yet.
I still think he should have never made the offer and am still worried about what is to come.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. There is no obligation to be monolithically one way or the other.
If it turns out well I am happy hosannas. If ill, I want thunderbolts hurled by Zeus. In the meantime, I believe it is a service to democracy to have truthful reactions to the knowledge of events I am currently allowed to have.
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theophilus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. I agree totally, If, at the end of the "day" Mr. Obama has truly made
progress and positive change I will sing his praises to the heavens. If he turns out to be not nearly as good as his rhetoric, I will admit it. If he seems to have refused to fight for me and others in the lower and middle classes and has given the corporate shills things they should not have gotten I will regret voting for him. Time will tell.
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
75. Agree
I want to trust him, but we cannot know right now whether the steadfastness of Obamas rhetoric in defending core liberal and Democratic ideals will be matched by equal resoluteness in practice when the battles heat up and the temptation to make deals and jettison core priorities intensifies.

I sincerely hope the President might remember this Yogi Berra saying, "When you get to a fork in the road, take it" (interpretation: when you find a challenge, overcome it.)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Cultivating a graceful apology comes in very handy.
I am quick to enrage and accuse, I need to be equally swift in admitting when I'm wrong.

Especially when I am giggly and delighted to be wrong.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
46. Bless your heart aquart... That rhymed!
:hi:
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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. I've underestimated Obama before too.
I too, do not like what he was offering.

But the fact that the Republicans rejected it paints the Republicans in such a negative light that maybe it was just good politics.

It didn't resolve the issues, of course, but if the issues were essentially unresolvable because of Republican intransigence and delusional thinking that needed to be shown, and it has been shown.

I still don't like what Obama was offering, but that the Republicans rejected it without real consideration shows them to be just God awful.

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. So you are ok with offering up SS and Medicare as sacrificial lambs
to appease the Gods Of Neoliberalism?

Seriously?

Just because Abraham's god stopped Abraham from slaughtering his son doesn't make it any less fucked up that Abraham offered to slay his son for his beloved god.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. It has always been so...
As long as we've had a two party system, these items have been put on the table... over and over again.

Unless you just fell off the turnip truck, you should know this.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
57. Hmm really? These programs are always offered? I thought they were the third rail, sacred cows...
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
64. No they haven't.
The last time a Democrat did this was the hideous reform they implemented that yanked up the fica tax to allegedly insure that boomers would have adequate funds in the trust fund for retirement - when in reality they were papering over the mess being created by reaganomics and getting ready for the entirely predictable screwage being set up for execution now. So "all the time" would be once every 30 years or so.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
63. Agreed.
Good example! :thumbsup:
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have no idea what new frame of reference you're using to base this sea-change on.
While I don't always agree with your style, being this plastic before the whistle blows isn't something I associate with it.

PB
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NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. how bout we all just wait to see what happens?
if he attacks SS, we then turn our rage on him
if he gets what we want out of the pukes, we then heap praise on him
either way, lets wait til whatever happens, happens.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. how's it goin Will? good day to ya..
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
17. You are a bigger man than I first thought.
but I've always admired your tenacity anyway, so kudos. :thumbsup:
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. I've found in politics the initial impression is often not the final outcome.
Occasionally this is something I'm grateful over when things play out. This may well be one of those situations.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. k/r
Nice to see some willing to allow that there's more to this situation than the first impression.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. He does not want to be "Cartered"
Nor should any of us WANT him to be, if we value this country at all and realize what the alternatives are!
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. Right you are. In my post below, I state that I think..
Obama is the most honest president since Carter. But the Dems didn't trust and worked against Carter back then, and the same thing is being played out against Obama. Now in hindsight, the Dems recognize what a great man Carter was....a little too late.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. Whew!
It was like you were slowly being dragged to the dark side. I worried.
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SnoopDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
25. When you put something on the table...
There is always a chance that it will be acted upon.

It is very possible that if we Americans did not vigorously object, they could
have said 'see America doesn't care if cuts are made to SS".

Every time, every time our government tries to do something against the People,
we have to object. Otherwise they think we agree with them.

So, your original post was appropriate. And it is always important to remind government
of our core beliefs.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
26. "cuts to Social Security and Medicare are still on the table"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20079155-503544....

White House officials said yesterday it's still possible that President Obama and congressional leaders could reach a deal to reduce the deficit by as much as $4 trillion over a decade -- meaning cuts to Social Security and Medicare are still on the table.

<edit>

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor on Tuesday shared with he GOP conference outlines of the deficit reduction proposals on the table, including significant changes to Medicare and Medicaid.

Cantor said Mr. Obama's proposal to achieve about $4 trillion in savings included plans to raise the Medicare eligibility age, impose means testing for Medicare, and change the Social Security cost-of-living adjustment formula.

When asked yesterday whether reports that Mr. Obama would support raising the retirement age were accurate, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said, "A lot of the reporting about what has been under consideration has been accurate."

more...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Are you saying what's in the CBS report is not true?
nt
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. I don't think you read the story...
It's a total rehash of what has been said for the past week or so. You should pay close attention to the last dozen sentences or so, and think in terms of how the government actually works and what Obama has actually said.

But flog that dead horse all you want.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. "White House officials said yesterday it's still possible..."
nt
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
66. And just now from USA Today: Obama still pushing for big debt deal
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 02:27 PM by Karmadillo
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/20...

Obama still pushing for big debt deal
Jul 13, 2011

President Obama and aides say they will want to go big on a debt reduction deal.

"Bigger is better," said White House spokesman Jay Carney, calling the ongoing congressional negotiations "a unique opportunity to accomplish something significant."

For the White House, that means $3 trillion to $4 trillion over ten years, an idea Obama has pushed for months -- also an idea that House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and other Republicans pulled from their agenda because it would require tax increases.

Still, Obama gets to make his case again when he meets with Republican and Democratic congressional leaders at 4 p.m.

more..
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #66
90. It's all 20-dimension chess-jitsu,
we mortals cannot understand the straturgery here. The kimono is lifted, ever so slightly, only to reveal an enigma, wrapped in a mystery, inside a ham sandwich, with cheese, AND IT IS KOSHER! And then just when it seems like defeat is in the shoes, the camel pokes it's nose inside the tent and sneezes. See? Camel Snot! King me!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. Many of us told you to hold off on your condemnations until you saw the end game...
....but too many progressives are way too eager to be outraged than to calmly analyze situations.


It's like you're sitting on a "outrage" powder keg and you can't wait to light the fuse... and the first thing you hear sets you off.



Relax and watch the WHOLE game going on.



Obama is a master at this.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yes he is!
I wonder if strategic game players see this more clearly than others.

I like puzzles and word games... watching ill-matched words enter these conversations has been quite disturbing to me.

Perhaps gamers keep their eye on the prize?
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. Even if you aren't a strategic game player..If you've lived on this earth..
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 02:00 PM by Kahuna
for a certain number of years, you should be able to recognize political gamesmanship and know that you have to let it play out a while before you get your knickers in a wad.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. True...
I guess I'm having a hard time cutting slack on this issue because you're right... it's pretty blatant.

Makes you wonder.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Word, SD!
:fistbump:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. Always keep in mind that the president never reveals his hand. He lets
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 01:52 PM by Kahuna
people on the left and right think whatever they want to think. He lets them spew and (I'm thinking of YOU, Ed Shultz) have fits. He cannot control that and he won't try. He's much too bush for that. He has work to do. But whenever he reveals his end game the ranters (on the left and right) are left to look foolish (cat food commission, anyone?).

President Obama is the most honest president that I have beheld in all of my 57 years, aside from Jimmy Carter. But he tries to play a more skillful political game than Carter did. If we let him, President Obama will do down in history as one of the very best. It's up to us. We must all do our parts to not impede progress with emotional stances and outbursts. We need to trust that this president is trying his very best for the entire country. He has our best interests at heart, always.

Now, I will put on my flame suit. :patriot:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. Well said!
:patriot:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Thanks JuniperLea!
:hug: :patriot:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. "But whenever he reveals his end game the ranters are left to look foolish"
I agree with this. It pretty much happens every time.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #50
60. Can you provide a few examples of when concerned folks have looked foolish?
I'm still reeling from the passage of Bush Tax Cuts and the implementation of the payroll tax holiday.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Cat Food Commission. Squawk! nt
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. What about it? They produced some shitty ideas
Who cares if no agreement was reached? What pissed me off was that Obama appointed it in the first place with the most irresponsibly chairs imaginable. One of whom sits on a JP Morgan board.

Candidate Obama mocked commissions during his campaign then turned around and appointed one which produced 300 millions milk cow teats Simpson.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. That's a good example. What did he get for it???
;)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
83. yet you can't name any other time
because the fact is, it's been the other way around. Bad track record...
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. I named one above
And there are others. ;)
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. lol...
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
58. I thought this was sarcastic. Oh my. Good luck with that.
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Trey9007 Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
85. Well said......
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 04:37 PM by Trey9007
Theres no way Obama can take his 'proposals' off the table now. It will make it even more obvious he was playing a game, and the plan could backfire. Hes got to see his plan all the way through. In order for his plan to work, the GOP must REJECT the deal. He can't take it off the table. It looks like he is right, in thinking the GOP won't take the deal'

Ive heard Obama say the cuts he would consider would be on the supply side of entitlements, and not the benefit side. Therefore, he gives himself even more wiggle room.

For now, I must say, "well played Mr President".

In Chicago, they have a term for this. Its called, winning ugly.....
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
34. Nice post, Will...
...and thank you for making it.

Although I doubt it will get re-posted on your behalf. :rofl:

Nicely done!
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
47. I don't you missed anything...
...but once it became clear that Medicare/SS cuts would not be politically sustainable, the president backed off. Your logic was solid, based on his performance thus far. I think you drew the correct conclusion, and we could still see this action carried out.
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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
48. I'm not sure, Will. It appears that he put it on the table which is like
using me and millions of others as a pawn in a sick game. I'm not sure I'll ever be completely comfortable with him after this week.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
49. Nicely done, Will.
Your apology is well considered and should be the first of many. So far, you're singing solo, but you're hitting the right notes.


-
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
51. That's what I thought about 3 months before the Bush tax cuts
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 02:03 PM by Zorra
were extended. At first, I was skeptical--but stories like the one below had me confident and convinced that the tax cuts would not be extended. Silly me, I foolishly relied on these sweet little lies while campaigning for Congressional Democrats. Instead of eating a wonderful meal of delicious crow, I ended up eating some nasty shit after having my face rubbed in it.

For me, with regard to Obama, I'll only believe him when I see it in stone from now on. My trust is broken. Hopefully, we won't mortgage the farm, and I'll apologize when all is said and done, and will then sit down to enjoy a fine meal of tasty crow.

But I'm never, ever going to eat shit again because of trusting Obama.

September 9, 2010 3:53 PM
White House: No Veto Will be Needed Over Bush Tax Cuts

The White House says it is confident Congress can find the votes this year to pass legislation extending the Bush tax cuts that does not include an extension of those cuts for the wealthiest Americans, something Republicans are calling for.

They are so confident, in fact, that White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said today there is no need for the president to consider vetoing any potential bill that would give in to the Republicans' preferences.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20015994-503544....

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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
52. i still think he's headed in that direction
i apologize for thinking that, but that's what I think.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
53. Pat's still suck
about time to change that Avatar. ;-)
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
67. I'm waiting till I see a clean deal with zero cuts, I want a straight vote as in the past.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. Me too. I was unaware that he has recently told the gop that SS cuts are off the table...
...in fact I could have SWORN it was the other way around...
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Raine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #67
81. Same here. nt
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
69. takes a big man, sir.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
70. Happy to REC this ... DU has become a place where outrage can become ...
the immediate response to each and every rumor by unnamed sources.

Thus, we had some saying that Obama was "hell bent" on destroying Social Security and Medicare ... and so on.

Some who were concerned, advocated for actions like call the white House or your congress people ... many of which were generally constructive arguments.

But a scarce few who got caught up in the outrage have stepped forward and said anything as clear-headed as you have done here. I for one appreciate it.

I think debate, concern, and critical assessment is healthy ... but knee-jerk outrage ultimately hurts our efforts.

Having said that, I think its also helps us when anyone recognizes that, just maybe, just perhaps, at times, they might have started out in the former mind set (constructive), and ended up more in the latter (overly critical).

Now let's all hope he holds the ground.


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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
71. The entire safety net debate has moved to the cuts area, with the President laying out the case
He screwed the pooch, bluff or not, and it won't unscrew easily.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
73. You might be missing something.
According to recent accounts, CBS among them, the white house still wants the cuts.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
76. It was rope-a-dope 2.0.
k&r
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. When was the first one?
I missed it!
Fuck, I hate it when that happens!!

Obama should just stop talking to the Republicans.
All he does is piss them off anyway.
Cantor even walked out of the talks they were having because he was so pissed off.
Those guys aren't going to give in easy.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. "2.0" means an improved version of in this case a political smooth move.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Oh, sort of like what MicroSoft does. I get it now.
Obama is a freakin' genius, there's no doubt about it.
I wish he'd come back out here to Idaho just one more time so I could see him in person again.
He's amazing.
When I saw him speak the first time, it was unreal.
The conviction in his voice was so mesmerizing.
And he could actually form whole sentences, unlike Bush who just made up words and then laughed like a drunken hyena to himself.


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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
78. He's never going to forgive you.
Not after what you said.
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
80. For those who haven't caught up, yet --



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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
84. Never apologize. Attack! Attack! Attack! Apologies get you nowhere. Double down on your attacks.
That's how you make a name for yourself. :)
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
87. I was fence sitting on this one...many POTUSs have said they would
'do something' to/with SS...and all decided not to. Smart move. I believe he did the same thing to the GOP on a few other occasions, maybe he was snuggling up to the GOP (or appeared to) so he could keep his 'friends' close and his 'enemies' closer. That is my bet.
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joshcryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
89. Good for you.
Don't worry, we can all be caught up in the hyperbole, really easily.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
92. We'll see - it ain't over 'til it's over...
Sometimes the Kabuki theater is a long, dragged-out thing.
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-11 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
93. From what we've heard in the past couple of days, maybe you need to take that apology off the table.
Edited on Fri Jul-15-11 05:56 PM by kath
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rbnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-11 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. lol
might as well laugh
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