"Anyone who worked hard can never be poor!"

[RadiationTherapy]

"Either you inherited wealth, or your parents never worked hard!"

Conservative philosophy is so poorly thought out, so designed for bumperstickers, that they can end up being pretty funny. Do you have any "re-writes" of conservative philosophy?

"80% of Americans have cell phones and iPods, how can you be hungry!?"

[dkf]

1. No you can work hard and save poorly.

If you don't save anything it is very easy to be poor.

[RandomKoolzip]

2. If you work very hard but don't make a living wage, there is no way to save.

That's the situation many of us are in. unless you're suggesting we go live in a cardboard box somewhere and continue to go to our first and second job.

[RadiationTherapy]

5. Sorry, RKZ. The FACT is, if you are not wealthy - right fucking NOW - then you ain't working.

Lazy, liberal, good for nothing.

[RadiationTherapy]

4. BZZZZZZZT! Ohhhh, I'm sorry...wrong answer.

The correct answer is: Anyone who is poor, never worked hard!

Stop being so gray. The world is MUCH more black and white than you know! hahahahahaha

[Occulus]

8. SO glad I have that one on ignore n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

66. You. Can't. Alert. On. Ignored. Posts.

[canoeist52]

94. I use ignore lite - partial ignore

can read threads and replies just not private messages.

[BeFree]

12. Hard to be honest and be rich

Easy to be poor when you are honest.

Never knew a rich garbage man who rides the back of the truck.
But the least poor among them are those who are union.

The rich, were they honest, would readily admit they are wholly dependent upon the roads, the schools, the fire and police, for their opportunity to do business. And upon the working man to do the rich man's dirty work. And if his working men can be treated as slaves, ie, no union, he can become even richer.

[dkf]

63. It's not a matter of being rich or being poor, but of being ok.

Saving money is the only modicum of security we get in this life. Sacrifice early, protect your egg, and at least you have something there if you ever need it.

[BeFree]

70. That's a religion, a rather nasty one

Money, money, money. Money!

It is a religious faith this: By hoarding money, life will become perfect.

Or that security can be purchased with paper. Paper that is backed by the religious faith.

[dkf]

76. Well I guess since I'm an agnostic and can't rely on my faith in God I have to rely on other things.

[BeFree]

82. W hooosh

Right over yer head, eh?

Your faith in money, is to me, a religion.

[dkf]

85. Well what else is there to believe in?

I believe in my family, but I also believe I have to take care of them by making sure we are financially sound. My friends...I wouldn't go to them to take care of me. I wouldn't want to be a burden. I can't even contemplate asking them to take care of me. How awful.

[BeFree]

87. Well

I feel sorry for you.

"He ain't heavy, he's my brother"

The whole of this society is based upon us taking care of each other. And it does. It works. Well, it worked. Now it's getting to be where it is 'everyone for themselves' religious leaning. A false and despoiling religion, but the prevalent religion none the less.

[dkf]

89. Not really. If we did we wouldn't need government Programs.

We would all just help each other out. The problem is we aren't naturally care taking so the big brains put together systems where everyone must help others.

Not only that but doctors wouldn't charge exorbitant fees and demand people show proof of insurance, no one would be homeless as friends would welcome them in, anyone who was hungry could get leftovers from the neighbor down the street, no one would be crying about their fair share because things would be distributed more fairly.

It's because people aren't like that that we demand government create and enforce things.

[BeFree]

92. What a narrow vision you have

So, the more money government has the more secure we are. I can see that.
We will, through the government, take care of you, one way or another.

That is what made this country great, and is in opposition to the Teabaggers who want to starve government because they think they can live without any of us.

Baggers say: ""Our money left in our hands, is all the security we need.""
What a shallow and corrupt religious faith, is all I'm saying.

[dkf]

102. I find many religious faiths corrupt.

The way the teachings of Jesus have been translated into American life is pretty sad and the hypocrisy of many is breathtaking. When is the last time you took a homeless person in?

[girl gone mad]

103. If you want households to increase their rate of savings..

then the government is going to have to increase its spending. But you've stated opposition to increased government spending.

Where is it that you imagine our money comes from?

[bullwinkle428]

6. Right. Because there's nobody out there working their ass off

just to pay for the absolute necessities in life, and can only dream about having something to put away for the proverbial rainy day.

[fascisthunter]

9. when people don't struggle like others do, they like to pretend they are special

or better than those who don't, because in truth, wealth and comfort financially is not a badge of merit, nor is it a symbol of true success... it's just vain materialism, and blaming others for their situation is a way to cleanse any guilt(I have a better life than you, and I will not feel bad about it).

The sad part is, nobody wants them to feel bad, just to stop making shit up to feel superior to others. There are some who are lazy, but the ones who are lazy are the liars, cheaters and criminals, and todat we see them all at the top of the economic ladder. Irony...

[dkf]

19. Actually I was talking about my brother who makes six figures but who can't afford to pay me back.

And who probably does have more debt than assets. I always wonder what will happen to him in his old age. I'll probably have to take care of him.

[Dept of Beer]

40. Perhaps he just doesn't want to pay you back.

Never lend money to friends or family...

[hunter]

59. Better yet, always treat "loans" to friends or family as a gift.

That way if friends or family don't, or more likely can't, repay you there's no hard feelings.

Life's too fucking short to let money destroy friendships and families.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

71. I believe everybody who's not an asshole acts like that. -nt

[dkf]

83. He said it was for one day to fix a trading problem 15 years ago.

He spends $200 on a date. He has flown to Hong Kong, Argentina, Peru, with numerous skiing trips to Tahoe. He has leased two new cars and moved into a luxury condo in the heart of the city.

I make half what he does and I'm trying to buy a place too. He is just being an asshole. He is lucky I speak to him.

[smokey nj]

118. I'm happy when I can help my friends and family when they're in a bind,

whether or not they pay me back.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. Three things I hope about this story:

(1) That it's true (unlikely, I know);
(2) That the brother NEVER pays him back;
(3) That the brother actually CAN easily pay him back, but doesn't because fuck him.

[dkf]

107. He can pay me back but says I don't need it because I would just invest it.

While he would rather use it to buy girls drinks and go on $200 a night dates and buy one piece of grass fed beef for $32. If he was struggling I'd be okay with it. But when he decided to move from his $1200/month rent controlled one bedroom apartment to his $2200 one bedroom condo I hit the roof.

Which goes to my assertion that it's not necessarily how much you make, it's how much you spend/save because in terms of assets, he doesn't have much.

I started to help him out so he wouldn't go to my parents for "loans" but I've stopped that now.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

69. Forget the personal anecdotes. Do you deny there are people who work hard, live frugally...

and yet can't save?

[surrealAmerican]

30. You attribute to vanity what may be just plain fear.

It is way too scary for most Americans who are "getting by" to contemplate that plain bad luck could land them in poverty, even if they worked hard all their lives, and made the best choices they could. It's way less frightening to just assume that poor people are not as smart, or lazy, or made the sort of mistakes you avoided. It lets the middle class feel safe.

[fascisthunter]

36. That's a great point

I think that is part of it too...

[dkf]

75. Savings =. Security.

Spending = vulnerability.

Never get into payments you can't afford with a significant cushion, even if it compromises your desired lifestyle.

I had people rag me about my beat up car, but I kept it until the repairs looked too onerous. Then I bought a used car.

The key is to always buy less than what you can afford.

[surrealAmerican]

97. Even people who do save ...

... are a layoff and an illness away from disaster.


We are all still vulnerable.

[dkf]

65. It's fear that makes people save.

Why else would you deprive yourself of enjoyment?

[bullwinkle428]

72. "Vain materialsim" - totally nailed!! There's a guy that posts on another

board I frequent, and literally every single post he makes includes some kind of incredibly self-aggrandizing comment about his own "success" in life, and how much he enjoys his expensive cigars and single-malt scotch. The epitome of Calvinistic thinking.

Political discussions are not allowed on this particular board, but you know this guy worships at the mantle of the Koch brothers!

[fascisthunter]

93. oh yeah... and he probably drives a hummer so he gets more noticed

like a baby screaming for attention.

[dkf]

10. Everyone has bought something that wasn't an "absolute necessity".

You don't think?

[RadiationTherapy]

13. Wealth is more of a coincidence than a characteristic.

Don't you think?

[dkf]

21. Wealth yes, savings, no.

[RadiationTherapy]

25. Cool. So if I can put aside $100/week (I can't) that will be nearly $5200/year.

A mere 200 years away from a million! WHOOOOO!!!!

[dkf]

58. Are you putting nothing in for retirement?

I've put away a minimum of 10% from my paycheck my entire working life. I've never seen the money so it's never been there to spend.

[RadiationTherapy]

84. I just started putting some away. Not because I get paid enough, but because

the financial aid I get permits me to. Some of my school loans go into mortgage, life insurance, and retirement. Lucky me. hahaha.

[dkf]

88. I went to a state university to save on college.

My degree isn't from a top notch U but it also kept me out of debt. I can't imagine starting out life with a huge loan. Ugh.

But seriously if you've never seen the money you've never increased your lifestyle. I am very lucky I started with a frugal childhood so I never felt I was deprived or in need. My spending now is not as disciplined as I want it to be though. I must get back on the ball.

[RadiationTherapy]

101. I am 37 years old and have never seen $30k in one year.

I WORK at a state university. I get tuition waivers. I am still going into debt for this degree. I don't really care about debt, though, so we'll see if it works out or not for me. I have been having a blast learning.

[RandomKoolzip]

14. Do you ever do anything on DU but play "Conservative Conventional Wisdom-spewing

Devil's Advocate?" I can't remember anything you've ever posted that wasn't contrary for the sole purpose of pissing off liberals.

[Gold Metal Flake]

48. +1

[Hell Hath No Fury]

54. +1

[dkf]

55. To me a true liberal wants to help the poor find ways to save money.

That is what someone who cares about you does. The money grubbing republican wants the poor person to spend everything they have so they can make money.

[jtown1123]

60. Here's a bit of logic. If you are poor, by definition, you cannot save adequately.

[dkf]

106. You guys are so defeatist.

http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief13/PolicyBrief13.pdf

[LeftishBrit]

78. There's a good way to help the poor find ways to save money

Pay them a living wage, so that they have some money to save!

Otherwise 'helping the poor find ways to save money' is a bit of contradiction in terms, since the meaning of 'poor' is that you don't have enough money. It's difficult to save something if you haven't got it to begin with!

[RandomKoolzip]

79. Precisely. +1

[girl gone mad]

104. Then you should be fully in favor of more government spending.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

64. That was, of course, a rhetorical question. -nt

[bullwinkle428]

67. So, "everyone has foolish moments" translates to "let them suffer"?

[LeftishBrit]

11. And if you are paid slave wages, then it's pretty well impossible to save.

[Dept of Beer]

42. But if you work 3 jobs like that lady that Bush II was so proud of...

[enlightenment]

15. You can also work hard and never have enough to save.

Plenty of people are in that situation. Suggesting that everyone can 'save' sounds like something you'd hear on those financial news segments that presume everyone invests, everyone has a 401K, everyone owns a home. That is simply not a reality for many, many people.

[Javaman]

27. You can also work hard, then get a life altering disease that throws you into bankruptcy. nt

[RadiationTherapy]

31. My father, then two years later, my brother. Of my nuclear family, half have lost

their ability to earn due to cancer.

[grasswire]

34. you also can put all your efforts into building a family and then be abandoned or divorced

...by a weasely spouse who hides assets and has a lawyer.

Many older women are in that place today.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

112. Lots of rich men file for bankruptcy so wife can't get it in a divorce.

Common practice in divorce court. i saw it all the time when i was a court reporter.

:puke:

[Dept of Beer]

38. Do you agree with the republican mindset then?

Conversely, you can be lazy while being super rich if your parents set up a trust fund for you.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

61. Redundant. The post you're replying to is essentially a ''yes'' answer to that question. -nt

[Ikonoklast]

62. You are so precious.

"Save poorly"?

What if every penny you earn goes to keeping body and soul together?

[Warpy]

73. Or you can work hard and be paid poorly. Or you can work hard

and not have health insurance. There are a lot of ways to work hard and stay poor in the US of A these days. Working hard guarantees nothing but having your body break down in your 50s and early 60s.

However, being born rich and sitting on your ass pretty much guarantees you'll stay rich in this Reaganized economy. You don't have to do a thing, the money will keep on rolling in.

[Erose999]

You can lose your savings in a flash, even if you invested "wisely". I mean if one were to have

followed the so called "experts" and invested in Enron, AIG, etc etc one would be broke right now.

Hell, you have better odds in Vegas than you do following the advice of cable news "analysts," LOL.

And then there are the poor fuckers who've been hoodwinked by Glenn Beck and his buddies at Goldline....

[alarimer]

111. People who make shit wages don't work hard????

People who make shit wages CANNOT save. Read "Nickle and Dimed" because you clearly need an education on what it means to be poor. You cannot save on Walmart wages and 1) keep a decent roof over your head, 2) save, and 3) pay for medical care. One of those things (at least) would have o give.

You are ignorant.

[Forkboy]

119. I admire your consistency.

[Bryn]

3. I picture conservatives who think they will be rich someday ...

As a poor horse chasing after dangling carrot in front of its face.

[Dept of Beer]

44. The comic reality is that for the horses that don't win it is off

to the rendering plant with them.

[sunwyn]

7. What really sucks is when you have nothing left to save

[ejpoeta]

33. whatever do you mean? i love watching that one lady... what is her name?!?!

grr... can't think of it now. but she always insists that you pay yourself first or something. put a certain amount into savings. but what if you barely have enough to pay your rent and your electric bill and your insurance for your car and put gas in it to get to work? then you have to feed yourself too.... I will admit i suck at budgeting. I would always forget to add food in and so after I paid my bills I would have like $20 to buy groceries.... So, I could either feed myself on $20 for a whole week, or I could save money.... granted, this was like 15 years ago because it was before I had kids, but... and no I am not exaggerating. After I paid all my bills and put gas in my car, that is the amount I had left to feed myself. And then I could listen to my friend lament about how she only had $200 for the week. how awful!!

[grasswire]

35. my mom told me years ago that her father told her to save a nickel out of every dollar.

They lived through the depression. If I had done so, I'd be better off now.

[RadiationTherapy]

41. Cool. So get a job where you net $2000 per week, put away $100 every check.

And in 200 years you'll have a million! Taaaa-dAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[ejpoeta]

49. it is a good idea to save money. my brother in law had lots of bonds or something he was given.

they have been helpful when they needed them for things. he is good at saving. we over here have been trying but struggle. we have gotten better. we went from hand to mouth when our oldest daughter was little to where we have our house paid off and are paying things off and doing improvements. we don't have a lot of savings though. my husband has his 401k from work. and he has a savings account with NO atm card that he has to physically go to the branch to withdraw money if he wants it because the last one he had had an ATM card and it sat in the safe for awhile but we ended up using it. What usually ends up happening is we save up some money and then something breaks and there goes whatever we saved.

[Starry Messenger]

16. There are lots of people here who spout that too. n/t

[RadiationTherapy]

18. Well, I am done being quiet about it. Life is so complex that it takes a truly childish

outlook on life to feel you are in control of your destiny. It is, quite literally, stupid and ignorant.

[Starry Messenger]

22. +1

:thumbsup:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

81. And vain. You think you're OK and will always be OK because you're morally superior.

And not because of dumb luck (mostly related to which family you were born in), that can run out at any moment.

You know the saying "There but for the grace of God go I?" It has truth, and you don't even have to believe in God. Think of Chance instead -- same thing.

[NightWatcher]

17. or you could work hard, see the factory move to China, lose health insurance, and get sick

hundreds of thousands are in that boat that got fucked over by globalization and greed.

[RadiationTherapy]

23. I don't know about that, now. I have a lot of conservative poor people telling me

that wealth is there for anyone who wants to work hard enough for it. Perhaps factory work isn't hard enough?

My mother immigrated from french-speaking canada and dropped out of high school. She worked in factories her entire life. Despite how exhausted she was at the end of the day, I wish I had sat down with her and said, "Mom, you have to work harder than this. We're going to be poor our whole lives!" I didn't do it because my dad lost his sight to a brain tumor and finances were pretty hard then. But, dammit, had I spoken up, we'd be RICH now! RICH I TELL YOU!! AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

[Dept of Beer]

46. Or work, without benefits, in an unforgiving industry that values

prima donnas only to be given the boot when it pleases your manager the most.

[Nye Bevan]

20. Seems that you are the only person ever to say that....

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Anyone+who+worked+hard+can+never+be+poor%22&ie=UTF-8

[RadiationTherapy]

26. Hm. That is interesting. Maybe I should work hard making bumperstickers!

hahahahahahaha.

Thanks for looking, that was pretty cool!

[Ruby the Liberal]

56. LOL! Priceless.

:rofl:

[Bragi]

24. Now even the middle class can be poor

The American Dream lives on, though the game is more rigged than ever.

It used to be that, statistically, if you were born poor, you most likely would live and die poor.

Now, you don't need to be born poor to live and die poor; being born into the middle class will get you there.

[Quantess]

28. Anyone who has ever worked for a living, who said/thought that...

must think that "poor" means living under a bridge, with shoes made of cardboard tied to your feet, eating roadkill over a campfire.
Yeah, that's more than poor, that's destitute. But what about all the millions of Americans struggling to keep a roof over their heads and feed their families? Are they not also hard-working and POOR?

[kctim]

29. "Anyone who doesn't work hard can never be rich"

[Ikonoklast]

96. Paris Hilton.

[kctim]

99. Yep

[divvy]

32. washing dishes is very hard work at a busy diner ....

you will never get rich doing it either

[kestrel91316]

37. My dad worked his tail off before he died 30 years ago. Then

by the time Mom died this year, her decades of severe mental illness and 8 years in assisted living due to stroke-related dementia had left her almost completely out of money.

My "inheritance" is laughably miniscule.

[RadiationTherapy]

45. I feel for you. My family has been devastated by illness and bills.

[fascisthunter]

39. I sure as hell am NOT lazy nor are the folks in my family

it is an insult to say such things to people who grind it out daily... now we have to hear dipshits with money talk out of the asses about us... the anger and frustration of working your life only to make ends meet is bad enough, but to hear their phony insulting narrow-minded shit makes me want to punch their teeth into the back of their throats. Sorry... thinking aloud here.

[RadiationTherapy]

43. It's beautiful. I don't mind. This country is close to knockin each others' teeth in.

Good days to be a dentist! hahaha.

Take care and I hope the stress evaporates for you.

[fascisthunter]

52. yeah... it will

a friend who is much older and wiser than I told me, "You can NEVER have a bad day! Just bad moments within that day, the rest is up to you."

Sometimes it is hard to realize that when there are a string of bad moments within one day, but he was right.

[Newest Reality]

47. The secret to being rich is to

have droves of people who believe in working hard for you, and that they will never be poor if they continue to do so.

Profit!

[RadiationTherapy]

50. That's brilliant. It is like the opposite of the Knight's Templar! ahahaha

Them crazy capitalists! Theys smart!

[ejpoeta]

53. or you can write a book about how to be rich and convince people to buy it for

$20 each. then you will be rich.

[B Calm]

100. It really is that simple!

[Urban Prairie]

51. Depends on what one considers "poor" to mean.

Poor can mean being penniless, being deeply in debt, being underwater in their mortgage, being without many if any family members and/or friends, being homeless, being unable to save any money, being bankrupted, being unable to obtain credit, being unable to work, being unable find suitable, life-supporting employment, being unable to afford or obtain healthcare coverage, ect...

Poor is not something that can be easily measured, and a lifetime of hard work can be wiped out within several years, if not sooner, should sufficient misfortune be experienced, as that is what happened to my wife and I, both of us losing our jobs, due to my disability and hers being outsourced within two weeks of each other...all downhill from then on, and it happened quite shockingly fast, to be brutally honest.


:(

[Taverner]

57. I'd like to introduce them to the teachers of bay area schools

And then I'd like them to reflect on their pay...

Nope, too much thinking there.

[guitar man]

68. If hard work were the only factor

...in becoming wealthy, I'd be the king of the fucking world! :crazy:

[Quantess]

74. cell phones and ipods....

I'm sure you're already aware of this, but cell phones can be inexpensive and are kind of vital for most people's daily routine. MP3 players are commonly under $100 (an ipod shuffle is $50), and when you think about it, an MP3 player is cheap entertainment.

[RadiationTherapy]

86. Oh, I am aware. But according to the conservative Theory of Poverty Relativity

we are all very, very not poor!

[Dappleganger]

80. My grandaddy worked from before sunup to after sundown his whole life...

and died of a heart attack in his mid-sixties out on the cotton fields he was sharecropping. They never owned a thing and had to settle up with the owner and local store every year at harvest time, he was always in debt like a slave (poor Irish family). When he died my grandmother and what was left of their 15 kids had to go on welfare, take in babysitting, ironing, laundry, mending, etc., just to put food on the table and quite often that wasn't enough. Grandma died out in her garden not long after she turned 60. I can damn guarantee you that they worked harder than the average person and never had two nickles to rub together.

[grasswire]

114. this story makes me really sad

So much misery in the world.

Do you think they would have been better off with fewer children? Or were the children actually an asset in terms of getting work done?

[Dappleganger]

115. They were poor sharecroppers and mormon...

not too much wiggle room there. They lost several babies, and my grandmother was grandpa's 2nd wife, the first one died as well. All the kids worked the cotton field, so yes the numbers were essential.

[EC]

90. Well, I've had 6 different places where I worked close

on me in my work history...so I've pretty much had to start over at least 3 times. This was in a span of 30 years, so now I've finally gotten to a point where I've gotten back to where I can save, but have become such a pessimist at believing my job will be there tomorrow that saving is something I have to do...so I don't spend much of any of my money, just in case. Oh and add in divorce (with a teenage daughter to clothe and feed with a dead-beat ex), it's a good formula for never being rich.

[librechik]

91. The hardest jobs are often the most poorly paid

and it takes more than 40 hrs at minimum wage to survive in any county in the US. Do the math.

[Kermitt Gribble]

95. One of my favorites:

"God helps those who help themselves".

[Fly by night]

98. Oh yeah? Try getting busted for growing cannabis and giving it away.

That has cost me over $1 million so far, my career and much, much more.

[saras]

105. Work? Poor? Mahatma Gandhi. end of discussion

There's nothing wrong with being poor compared to what's wrong with a society that makes you suffer for being poor.

There's no discernable relationship between the amount of good work someone does in the world and how much money they have. None.

You can't make right-wingers look any dumber than they are, any more than you can parody death metal. Both are already more extreme than any possible parody.

[RadiationTherapy]

109. Parody death metal! It's so funny, but it makes so much sense!

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[TheKentuckian]

108. One of the historic whoppers. I bet bullshit no goods that spout that shit

may well die of a day of hard work. Not all but some, especially the weasels that sell and profit from this complete idiocy.

[Philippine expat]

110. Whats poor/ whats rich? These terms mean different things

to different people.
My defenition of rich is "The ability to live a desired life style without working" Key word is desired.
To many people rich is going to bed at night knowing where breakfast is coming from in the morning

[EstimatedProphet]

113. "I never got a job from a poor person, so rich people create jobs" is pretty stupid

[quaker bill]

116. I actually have never worked harder

than I did for minimum wage. Two jobs at once, 70+ hours a week, and still I was poor. Three days a week from 8am until 2 am the next day, 5.5 hours of sleep and back at it again. Two more 8 hour shifts and then whatever I could pick up for hours on saturday... I took sundays off and generally slept until well into the afternoon.

[Politicalboi]

117. I should be a Billionaire by now

What happened?