McConnell proposes to let Obama increase the debt ceiling without a majority vote in Congress! OK!

[Better Believe It]

Do it!

Call McConnell's bluff!

In part, the proposal affims President Obama's constitutional authority to raise the debt ceiling and this can only be denied with a super-majority in Congress. If McConnell's proposal passes, discussions can take place during the 2012 budget negotiations to reduce the deficit not on the backs of the elderly and working people, but by ending tax dodges and loopholes for corporations and the rich.

That's my initial thought on the proposal. What do other DU'ers think of this idea? BBI

Mitch McConnell Debt Ceiling Plan: Senate GOP Leader Offers Alternative To Obama's 'Grand Bargain'
By Ryan Grim
July 12, 2011

WASHINGTON -- Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) floated a novel way out of default on Tuesday, suggesting that Congress give up its power to raise the debt ceiling, and instead effectively transfer that authority -- and the political pain that comes with it -- to the White House for the remainder of Obama's first term.

With eight days remaining until the administration-imposed deadline, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) told reporters he had no plans to "trash" McConnell's plan and would give it a close look.

Under current law, Congress raises the debt ceiling, which allows the Treasury Department to issue more bonds to pay off debts and fund projects that Congress has already authorized. Raising the debt ceiling does not authorize or appropriate new spending, but merely settles old bills. Under McConnell's plan, which he called his "last-choice option," the White House would request a rise in the debt ceiling, and Congress could only block it with a veto-proof super majority -- effectively ceding control, as such a majority would be difficult to amass, especially when neither leadership genuinely wants the nation to default.

McConnell said he believes the votes exist in the Senate to pass a bill that would establish the new debt-ceiling regime. If House Democrats go along, fewer than 25 Republicans would be needed to make the bill law.

Read the full article at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/12/mitch-mcconnell-debt-ceiling-plan_n_896254.html?1310496691&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008

[MineralMan]

1. And the Republicans Punt!

On fourth down and short yardage, the signal has come in from the sidelines. It's a punt, and it's three and out for the Goopers.

[msongs]

2. the republicans do what it takes to get the job done. and look good doing it lol nt

[former9thward]

28. No punt. Did you read the fine print?

Obama would have to cut for every dollar of the debt ceiling he raised.

[damntexdem]

3. The sticker: "fewer than 25 Republicans would be needed to make the bill law."

That's the same that it would take for Congress to simply raise the debt ceiling. The only possible difference is if at least 25 Repukes voted for this so as to not block a debt-ceiling increase as an alternative to actually voting for a debt-ceiling increase. That might work in some districts -- enough voters wouldn't want the entire economy killed -- but it is risky, because no way would the teabaggers like it.

[wiggs]

4. Yes! Rather than trying to change the America as we've known it for the last 80 years while

there's an economic gun pointed to our heads for the next two weeks...raise the debt ceiling any way possible then have a series of good, thorough policy discussions about priorities and budgets. That sounds like a much healthier process than finger pointing, panic, hostage-taking, rushed cuts to the bone, etc.

I'm for it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Good! Then Obama can do it without sacrificing on MediCare and SS.

[democrat_patriot]

6. Anything they propose cannot be good.

From the TPM article - I thought Obama/Dems had to have a dollar for dollar cut on any increase. 700 billion increase in debt ceiling? 700 Billion in cuts.

part 2 800 billion increase / cuts.
part 3 900 billion increase / cuts - fall of 2012.

Nice.

[ProSense]

7. Obama should call

McConnell and tell him to get a chin. The President doesn't need McConnell's affirmation. McConnell is desperately trying to appear reasonable while floating an attempt to drag out this process.

[Better Believe It]

8. Some are suggesting that Obama will be "blamed" for increasing the debt ceiling without benefit cuts

Obama would be "blamed" for increasing the debt ceiling if Congress passes a bill proposed by Republicans to give him that power without needing a majority vote in Congress?

Perhaps those suggesting that believe President Obama is incapable of making the case for increasing the debt ceiling and explaining what could happen if it's frozen.

I swear Obama just appeared in two televised news conferences where he did some splainin on why it must be increased!

[ProSense]

9. Who suggested that?

This is a stupid proposal, an attempt to continue their bullshit at a later date. Screw McConnell.

[Bobbie Jo]

33. What?

[bahrbearian]

10. So McConnel is now the Speaker of the House , when did that happen?

[Ruby the Liberal]

11. Problems:

1. Dems now own an unresolved debt ceiling increase - and the economy

2. Reps now own no responsibility. This isn't stimulus or a magic bullet, it just keeps us functioning. It will not turn anything around, economy wise, and they can lay that squarely at Obama's feet as a unilateral decision while telling people he is killing the economy.

3. This kicks the can down the road on Medicare/SS cuts and Tax revenue increases, smack into an election year, which Obama specifically stated that he wanted to avoid

4. McConnell's plan included the provision that there must be equal cuts to the amount of the ceiling increase (=/- $1T) which would be tied to the ceiling being limited.

Now, I asked why the bill couldn't be revenue increases equal to the ceiling increase as opposed to cuts, given that the whole point is that congress won't pass it regardless, leaving it on the President's desk, but haven't seen a response to that.

[Better Believe It]

12. "kicks the can down the road on Medicare/SS cuts" Good! Kick it hard!

Into the 22nd century!

Let's make that a big election year issue, even if, as you say, President Obama wants to avoid that issue in his election campaign.

A campaign theme:

"The Republicans want to cut your Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.

And President Obama Will Not Accept Republican Cuts!"

Unless, of course, he is willing to accept cuts.

Would that put Obama on the spot and is that why President Obama wants to avoid this as an election issue, as you suggest?

[Ruby the Liberal]

14. Here is a short and sweet article just posted that explains it better than I can

Obama specifically stated that he will not accept a 30.60 or 90 day stop gap where this has to keep being debated in an election year.

McConnell's plan does just that, with the third and final of 3 negotiations to take place in the summer of 2012.

The 22nd century is not an option.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1474639

[Bobbie Jo]

30. Ridiculous.

WTF does that even mean?

[housewolf]

13. Sneakky way for the Repubs to blame all the debt & responsibility for raising the ceiling to Obama

You know he's not trustworthy. You know he's not interested in doing good for the country. You know his top priority is to unseat Obama next year.

You know he can't be trusted, and that he has to have some sort of nefarious political trickery in mind.

[Ruby the Liberal]

15. Yep - and here is the other shoe to drop:

Devil is always in the details, no?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1474639

[Better Believe It]

17. A clean bill without any catches simply giving Obama the authority to increase the debt limit would

be just fine.

Now, if they want to add all kinds of complicated language, restrictions and demands that would gum up the works, well that would be unacceptable.

[Bobbie Jo]

34. .

:rofl:

[Bobbie Jo]

32. +1

[kentuck]

16. Just so they can tell the Tea Party they did not raise the debt ceiling?

Even the Tea Party is not stupid enough to buy that excuse. Whether they do it or they let the President do it is six of one and half-dozen of another. This will really piss off the Tea Partiers!

Any, there is the constitutionality of it all. It is the responsibility of Congress to raise the debt limit. In actuality, the President should not even be involved in these discussions.

[MiniMe]

18. The only reason he is doing this is so the Republicants

can bash the President until the election. And it all becomes Obama's deficit then, instead of the Republicant deficit.

[Change Happens]

19. Cool, and I hope President Obama throws in a minimum wage increase too :)

[Better Believe It]

20. Here's more information on the proposal

McConnell Offers Rube Goldberg Plan to Allow Debt Limit Increases, Force Democratic Votes for Plan
By: David Dayen
July 12, 2011

Maybe it’s the quality of the writing on this article, but I’m at a loss to untangle it. Apparently McConnell wants to create a process where the Congress allows a debt limit vote in tranches, with three votes over the next year-plus, through the 2012 elections. And it would allow all the votes to come from Democrats, because they would simply be upholding a Presidential veto of something like a resolution of disapproval for increasing the debt limit. This is essentially a license for the Administration to increase the debt limit by themselves, with little constraint except a destined-to-fail 2/3 vote.

But then there’s this weird line about the President being “required to propose offsetting savings” as part of the deal, which could refer to impoundments or a line-item veto or I don’t know what. I’m trying to get my hands on the internal memo, although Mitch McConnell doesn’t really call or write me on a regular basis. McConnell has scheduled a press conference to discuss the proposal.

Understand that this is where McConnell’s been at the entire time. He isn’t really all that concerned with the debt limit, and thinks he has other options to force spending reductions, especially if he can keep taxes low. The 2012 budget is a perfect example. So this is a Rube Goldberg mechanism to achieve McConnell’s goals. Basically, his only concern is that Jon Tester and Claire McCaskill and Ben Nelson and Joe Manchin have to vote to increase the debt limit. McConnell has never used the word “filibuster” in relation to the debt limit. He just wants Democrats to carry the load entirely. In other words, he wants what every Senate Minority Leader has wanted on the debt limit since time immemorial: putting the entire responsibility on the majority. Republicans could freely vote against the increase and accuse Democrats of racking up debt. And since the President would be the prime mover in this, it fits with McConnell’s other main goal of making Obama a one-term President, since he would have no cover on increasing the debt limit.

Now, I cannot name for you one single solitary member of Congress who lost his or her seat because they voted to increase the debt limit. So McConnell may consider this tactically brilliant, but Democrats would be fine to call his bluff. What’s more, it would keep alive the many charges they could level at Republicans in 2012, like voting to end Medicare. The way I think it’s structured, you wouldn’t even necessarily need the aforementioned Tester and Nelson and McCaskill and Manchin to vote to uphold the Presidential veto; you’d just need 34 Democrats.

Read the full article at:

http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/07/12/mcconnell-offers-rube-goldberg-plan-to-allow-debt-limit-increases-force-democratic-votes-for-plan/

[Bobbie Jo]

35. .

???

[Better Believe It]

21. Senate GOP mulls new debt strategy

Senate GOP mulls new debt strategy
By DAVID ROGERS & SCOTT WONG
July 12, 2011

Desperate to get out of the political box they helped to create, Senate Republicans are actively pursuing a new plan under which the debt ceiling would grow in three increments over the remainder of this Congress unless lawmakers approve a veto-proof resolution of disapproval.

In effect lawmakers would be surrendering the very power of approval that the GOP has used to force the debt crisis now. But by taking the disapproval route, Republicans can shift the onus more onto the White House and Democrats since a two-thirds majority will be needed to stop any increase that President Barack Obama requests.

Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) acknowledged at a news conference Tuesday that the new plan would not ensure Republicans would get the trillions in spending cuts they’ve been seeking, and he noted that his party has become “increasingly pessimistic” that it can reach a debt deal with Obama.

This is a “last-choice option,” McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters before heading to the White House for another round of talks. “If we are unable to come together, we think it is extremely important the country reassure the markets that default is not an option and reassure Social Security recipients and military veterans that default is not an option.”

Read the full article at:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58801.html

[jwirr]

22. Then they will turn right around and tell the American people that

Obama caused to debt. This is what they have wanted all along. This looks like a trap to me.

[Better Believe It]

24. The far right is freaking out over McConnell's proposal and reaction in Republican House is cool

Mitch McConnell Just Proposed the “Pontius Pilate Pass the Buck Act of 2011″
by Erick Erickson
July 12, 2011

Mitch McConnell is right now talking about making a historic capitulation. So fearful of being blamed for a default, McConnell is proposing a compromise that lets Barack Obama raise the debt ceiling without making any spending cuts at all.

Consider sending McConnell a weasel as testament to his treachery. His address is 601 W. Broadway, Room 630, Louisville, KY 40202 and the phone number is [phone].

McConnell’s idea is to make the debt ceiling automatic unless Congress, by a 2/3 vote blocks the increase. Oh yes, he put a salve on it by dressing it up in tough talk that, to quote the Wall Street Journal, “ ‘eal solution’ to U.S. fiscal problems isn’t possible as long as President Barack Obama remains in office.” So since no “real solution” is possible, McConnell proposes to go Pontius Pilate and wash his hands of spending, blaming Obama while doing nothing himself.

In a nutshell, the President would get to raise the debt ceiling three times in the next year at several billion bucks a pop without making any spending cuts unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress disagree. In his press conference, McConnell says he would not give the President “unilateral authority to make spending cuts on his own,” but this plan would allow the President to raise the debt ceiling pretty much automatically.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/07/12/it-is-time-to-burn-mitch-mcconnell-in-effigy-he-goes-pontius-pilate-on-the-debt-ceiling/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


-------------------------------------------



Initial Reaction in House…Seems Cool
By Rich Lowry
July 12, 2011

From a Republican aide who would know on the sentiment regarding the contingency plan:

We, the House, hate this and it will not move. It would basically mean that the President only needs 1/3 of the either body to raise the debt limit, meaning that we would cede our majority status in the House. Can you imagine how insane this would make the grass roots/tea party—we have the numbers to stop an increase, but we completely give up and let Dems uphold a veto with a 1/3 vote. No way.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/271708/initial-reaction-house-seems-cool-rich-lowry

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. First he wants to take his ball and go home. Now he wants to hide under his bed?

What strong leaders the Republicans have. Strong as a two-year old toddler.

[fascisthunter]

25. Just Do It Obama

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

27. So Obama should

accept this deal?

Really?

[Prism]

29. It's a trap, and not an unintelligent one. The President should refuse.

People who are cheering that "Republicans caved!" don't understand what they're doing. This McConnell offer is meant to hang both the debt and painful spending cuts around the President's neck just in time for the 2012 election. This is a political maneuver on their part.

We're going to see more of this as the deadline nears.

[housewolf]

31. Here's the kicker: That the Prez request OF CONGRESS that they raise the debt limit

and then they can put all sorts of contingencies on it

How is this any different from what they're doing now?????