What am I missing re: repukes game of chicken about debt ceiling?

[truebrit71]

Watching KO last night on Current TV (man I just love being able to type that) he brought up an interesting point about the whole republican "if we don't get what we want we'll let the country default" argument. Seeing as how the rethuglican party is merely the political wing of Major Corporations and Wall Street, wouldn't a default actually hurt their owners MORE than the average Joe?

Think about it, for the poor and over-burdened middle class, the inability of the US Govt to pay on it's obligations is no different than what they have been facing themselves for years now, so any upheaval on Wall Street is unlikely to immediately impact them. However, if the US defaults, the banks, and Wall Street, will be well and truly fucked. Doesn't that mean that this whole stance from the Tan-man is nothing more than bullshit and bluster? H knows that he can't allow the country to default as this would displease his owners mightily.

I know I'm talking in broad strokes here, but shouldn't that be the single biggest argument for the Obama administration to rather than negotiate away more chunks of the social safety net, just simply sit back, fold their arms and tell the republicans 'go ahead, let it default, see what happens'..and then see just how quickly they scramble to try and save face with their masters...

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I think the GOP will cave if we keep pushing. I've read that Wall Street and the Chamber of

Commerce have held meetings with them to advise when to actually raise the ceiling. Do a search on 'GOP Wall Street debt ceiling' and you'll find lots of hits that say Wall Street will not allow a default.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/wall-street-debt-ceiling_b_887293.html

"Indeed, since Wall Street knows that there would be no appetite for even a morsel of bailout when it collapses this time, the stakes for Wall Street are extremely high. Debt default would be kryptonite to the masters-of-the-universe."

[PDJane]

2. What you're missing

Is that default and the dislocations default would cause would mean that fascism would be 'necessary' to contain the carnage. Believe me, the big guys wouldn't need to be bailed out; they're sitting on a great deal of money.

[DJ13]

9. I think that IS the game they're playing

:thumbsup:

[Ice Number Nine]

3. the GOP are indentured to Wall Street. The debt ceiling will be raised on time.

[former9thward]

8. Since you are equating raising the debt ceiling to Wall Street is that a bad thing?

Obama wants it raised. Is he indentured to Wall Street? Should we oppose raising the debt ceiling because it is what Wall Street wants? Your logic fails.

[Ice Number Nine]

12. everybody needs it to be raised, including Wall Street.

they will be the ones who put the screws to Boehner and company.

[damntexdem]

4. It's simple: a collapse of civilization is being furthered by barbarians from within.

This is just one small corner of that battlefield.

[PATRICK]

5. The GOP

is very conflicted and can only choose nonsense to cloak the absurdities of their position or the nefariousness of their own purpose. The Dems somehow, in an alternate well thought out madness are "dealing" with this hostile madness as equals or less than equals. If this were a psychiatrist treating an extremely dangerous patient a sensible observer would note the method has failed and the psychiatrist is dangerously in denial.

The longer the GOP plays the game, unable even to spin it toward what may be an escape, perhaps they seek to wait out the crisis until able to blame it on collapses outside America or- finally- the Dems. It seems they have committed to keeping up the pressure until something besides themselves give. As long as their corporate base doesn't panic and throw their political dogs under the bus... Maybe that is the only game the Dems are playing, the fortunes of the uber lords must work to keep the whole game together and give up the blackmail madness. Of course the Dems are practically promising them continued victory if they do and nothing dissolves the absurd ugly pretense of their party of choice.

What usually threatens a blackmailer overreaching is suppressed by the Dem leadership, they are dealing, so plan on it continuing to a last minute showdown, finally decided somewhere in financial boardrooms, unless something cracks apart elsewhere.

[Newest Reality]

6. Shock and Awe

Economics might be an inspiration for a default because the waves of impact would provide incredible opportunities for restructuring the society.

A default would most likely impact the government first, while major corporations, (who are sitting on a huge surplus of their own) that are multinational would have more flexibility to adapt and transition. The very wealthy would be in a position to weather the ensuing storm and then take advantage of the results, (as they did after the first Depression).

Then, of course, there is the issue of resources and their availability. Who has access and who will not? You can't come out and tell a culture that you have been manipulating into consuming mass quantities and who have been living in unsustainable ways the truth about impending resource, (energy/food/water etc.) crises directly or they could react from a very basic level of survival with potentially disruptive revolts.

Reading between the lines, the current economic and political Gestalt suggests to me that there is more to this than just money, power and posturing. It is getting down to short and long-term survival issues.

[Tippy]

7. From.... NYT.....

I find it ironic that the IMF and the international community are requiring Greece to not only cut spending but also to increase taxes while the Republicans in Congress refuse to consider raising taxes here in order to deal with our deficit

[jwirr]

10. You are partly right. Wall Street and big business will be hurt. Many

in the middle class and workers will be able to survive it. The other group that will be hurt is the elderly and others who rely on the safety net for survival. They are going to be devastated.

[Romulox]

11. There will be no default. Mandatory spending cuts will be triggered if the debt ceiling

is not raised.

In that way, NEITHER side is being honest in this debate.