Can we please take a moment for a deep breath?

[hootinholler]

Can we wait to get the facts of who the shooter was and his motives, before we have a lynching?

This is a despicable act, and we all have suspicions and not without good reason, I just would rather we act thoughtfully rather than emotionally.

-Hoot

[datasuspect]

1. bullshit

it's a politically motivated assassination. the line has been drawn in the sand.

[hootinholler]

6. So then what action are you taking then?

Are you going hunting? Who are you going to kill before you have the facts?

-Hoot

[datasuspect]

8. i know what side i am on

and that side doesn't have anything to do with cowardly political assassinations or coddling right wing terrorists.

what side are you on?

[bluestate10]

17. I have to admit.

I have never owned a gun, although I am capable at building and using electronic and chemical weapons. But, despite my quest to remain sane about this, I am gravitating to your position of extracting some form of revenge, if only to put a stake into the ground in regards to how the right should be dealt with.

[spin]

31. With that attitude I pray that you never own a firearm...

A firearm is for target shooting, hunting game, collecting or for self defense. Firearms are not for extracting revenge.

[hootinholler]

19. I'm on the side of reason...

You know, rule of law and all that?

-Hoot

[datasuspect]

21. what does political assassination have to do with the rule of law?

ur doing it wrong.

[bluestate10]

25. I too am having a hard time with his logic. nt

[hootinholler]

26. Are you serious?

:rofl:

So, you're saying Jack Ruby was right?

-Hoot

[datasuspect]

27. are you?

you're sick.

[hootinholler]

30. Absolutely serious.

My health is debatable, but I will assure you that I am shocked by the reaction to this event, nor am I enjoying our conversation.

-Hoot

[bluestate10]

23. If this turns out to be an action from an extreme right person.

You are still willing to follow the rule of law? The right is not following that rule. Their leaders use imagery of assignations, yet those leaders expect to move about and be safe. If the shooter is a right winger, how long will it be before one takes a shot at the President if this is not stopped now?

[hootinholler]

48. Absolutely I will follow the rule of law

I will not become my enemy to defeat him.

-Hoot

[cleanhippie]

42. I'm on the side of reason and justice.

What side are you on?

[datasuspect]

44. the side that doesn't believe in political assassinations of member of the United States Congress

[cleanhippie]

46. Is that the same side as Reason and Justice?

I have my suspicions, just like you, but you have no way to possibly know what the motivation was. None. Zip. Nada.

[Recursion]

34. Umm... isn't OP's point "let's make sure that's true before we claim it"?

I have no idea how anyone can be against that sentiment.

[cleanhippie]

40. You have NO way of knowing that. None at all.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but there is no way you or I or anyone can possibly know that yet.

[datasuspect]

47. maybe the guy was trying to mug her?

maybe it was an armed robbery gone awry?

how is it not a politically motivated assassination?

tell me how the act of assassinating a member of the United States Congress is NOT politically motivated.

please. i really want to here your answer.

[cleanhippie]

50. No you don't

You do not want to hear my answer at all, just like you do not want to hear the several answers you have already been given.

[datasuspect]

51. just tell me how the attempted assassination (it appears she is gravely wounded)

of a member of the United States Congress is NOT politically motivated.

please. tell. me.

[cleanhippie]

52. Just tell me how you know what this event was?

How could YOU possibly know what the motivation of this shooter was?

Please. tell. me.

[datasuspect]

53. do you live on earth?

are you really serious?

have you ever heard of deductive reasoning?

[cleanhippie]

55. So the answer is "no, I cannot possibly know."

You answer SHOULD be "I have come to the conclusion because...."
But again, there is no way that you can possibly know for sure what has happened here today.

Just like I stated, my suspicions agree with YOUR suspicions, but you nor I KNOW for a fact what happened.

[datasuspect]

56. let's try this another way, it's called the process of elimination

think of all the possible reasons why someone would want to kill a member of the United States Congress or any other POLITICAL figure as opposed to say any random person in the street.

think about this.

now, by your standard of what constitutes knowledge, there would never be any way to know with ABSOLUTE certainty anything about why this person decided to attempt to assassinate a political figure.

the shooter's self-report? he could be lying. how can we possibly know the truth? any truth for that matter.

i can't believe that you don't understand that the attempted assassination of a POLITICAL figure is a POLITICALLY motivated action.

did the guy decide to make an assassination attempt because he didn't like what she was wearing? there could be millions of potential reasons, but we have to go with what is most probable.

what denominates "the knowable" for you?

please tell me what the candidates for knowledge are in this situation.

[hootinholler]

57. I've heard of deductive reasoning

I've also heard of jumping to conclusions.

1. You have no knowledge of the shooter's motive, or even if the congresswoman was the target since there was a Federal Judge killed.

2. You seem willing to suspend the rule of law to string him up, or worse go on some killing spree.

3. Responding to a despicable act with another, leads to a third...

-Hoot

[datasuspect]

58. everything that you are saying is consistent with right wing reader comments on most newspaper

web sites.

Mods please note: i am not saying this poster is right wing, i am saying that their arguments are consistent with right wing activity on newspaper website comments sections in light of this horrific event.

this need to know what the shooter's specific motivations isn't part of this.

this was a politically motivated assassination attempt by someone who more or less is a right winger.

as to your 2nd and 3rd points, i've never broached those subjects. these are things you brought up. i live in a nation of laws. I believe in due process. i don't believe in assassinating political figures.

and a child died today. have some shame. stop the bullshit you are pulling.

[hootinholler]

59. Well, if they are arguing for reason and the rule of law

I find that a small comfort in an odd sort of way.

The need to know the shooter's motive is an element used to decide what charges should be brought. It's the way it works, and determines the difference between manslaughter and the various degrees of murder.

I won't disagree that it appears to be politically motivated as a number of murders and atrocities have been over these past few years.

So you're saying that I've jumped to conclusions about your remarks with my second and third points? I'll accept that as a possibility, but it has taken you this long to assert that you stand for the rule of law, which really is where I was going with the OP, let's get the facts first and act within the law without malice.

When your first word of your first reply was Bullshit and you talked about lines in sand, well, you can understand how I might be drawn towards those conclusions. Tomorrow or the next day when you have calmed down, you may come back and recognize the implied meaning in your posts. You may actually feel compelled to apologize to me.

Yes, people died today. Yes, one was a child. Killed by a despicable act most likely brought on by hateful rhetoric. That does not change who we are, nor should it.

I have no shame about calling for a reasoned approach to dealing with this. It is not bullshit. I am not pulling anything.

-Hoot

[RegieRocker]

2. I've already said it but it seems saying it again is good.

[Horse with no Name]

3. The possibility of this being just a random driveby

in this political climate is ridiculous.

[hootinholler]

4. Where did I say anything like that? n/t

[Recursion]

36. Right, but blue dogs can enrage crazies on both sides. Or the judge could have been the target

Let's just find out what happened first.

[MH1]

5. Typically I would agree, but the circumstances here are too blatant

A congresswoman who was LITERALLY 'targeted' with an image of a bullseye; in a state where the opponents have called for the application of "second amendment remedies" ...

NO. I've taken all the breaths I need.

When all the facts are in, if somehow, incontrovertibly, it turns out to have NOTHING to do with politics ... I still won't apologize to those who have WISHED for this.

[pintobean]

7. Nice try hoot

but, I think you probably knew how this would be received.

[Joe the Revelator]

9. An assasination is an assasination

[Dappleganger]

41. Unfortunately it rarely happens to just one person, either.

Wouldn't surprise me if this even gives someone else the propellant needed to do another assassination attempt on another congress person.

[AlabamaLibrul]

10. No.

[Lex]

11. This is speculation, not a "lynching" for god's sake.

nt

[cali]

13. bullshit

[Lex]

15. I admire your reasoning.

LOL.

[pintobean]

33. So do I

no bullshit, no lol

[cali]

12. I agree. I mourn the death of Gabrielle Giffords and the others.

[mix]

14. Why? A congresswoman has been assassinated, and you are calling for calm. Absurd. nt

[datasuspect]

16. too bad we can't say what is obvious here

so. painfully. obvious.

[mix]

18. an attack against a politician is a political act...an assassination

Those calling for calm are in denial about what is happening to this country...fuck bipartisanship.

[datasuspect]

20. i am in agreement with you

the appeal for calm gambit is just right wing sophistry

[hootinholler]

39. A gambit? Sophistry?

How about being true to one's ideals?

-Hoot

[hootinholler]

22. Quite the contrary

I've been looking for strategies to counter what has led to this moment. I feared this moment would happen.

I simply will not become my enemy to defeat them.

-Hoot

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

43. Agreed.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Human lives are being taken at the hands of the republicans, people.

[mix]

45. you might want to edit or remove that first line

but i get what you're saying

[bluestate10]

28. Your post would be deleted if you do.

I am full of rage right now. Are democrats willing to do anything but be targets of insane extremists? If they are unwilling to respect freedom of speech and association as long as laws are not broken, why should we respect those rights for them? Right wing political figures make all types of inflammatory statements in blogs, on "real life" shows and in newsrooms, then cry 1st amendment rights and we let them walk away to do it another day.

[hootinholler]

29. "I am full of rage right now"

Exactly my point. When people act in rage, very bad things happen.

I'm *not* saying we should let them get away with it. I am saying our response needs to be considered and lawful.

I will give the devil the protection of his rights because in doing so, I preserve mine.

-Hoot

[bluestate10]

37. Sorry hoot. I am not with you on this one.

If the shooter is affiliated with a right-wing group, preserving the rights of right wingers should be the last priority.

[Recursion]

38. Huh? His point is we don't know who did this and why yet (nt)

[bluestate10]

49. And I was clear to write "IF". nt.

[hootinholler]

60. SO let me make sure I'm clear on your position

If this is a right winger, we should just call Don Vito and have him take care of it?

Which rights would you suspend or trample in your quest? That is not justice, it is vendetta.

-Hoot

[SidDithers]

32. K&R...nt

Sid

[chrisa]

35. Agreed. Let's not blame anybody until the facts are in.

[Lindsey]

54. I don't know if it's accurate and I don't have a link but I read that

the media just spoke to her father and he was asked if he knew if she had any enemies. He said, "yes, the whole tea party".