Hey, those of you who deny a woman's right to choose, will YOU adopt their babies?

[DainBramaged]

Just askin, but I KNOW the answer, you are simply chickenshit 16th Century dirt bags.


When you have a place for every child who has to be born because YOU choose to deny a woman the right TO CHOOSE, get back to me and we'll talk.


But I already know how fucking futile that will be.

[madokie]

1. Thats pretty much my standard answer when someone says something about being against

abortions. Are you going to adopt these children then, its always met with the same deer in the headlight look when I ask the ones who are so afraid of gays when I ask them how old were you when you decided you didn't want to be gay. Well I didn't have to make that decision and I come back with thats right cause you weren't born gay. I'm straight but I have a dear friend who is gay and has been since the day he was born so I know for sure how that works. I have no time for the dickheads anymore and am old enough to know how I feel and am not afraid of letting anyone know exactly what I think either.

Rec'd

[former9thward]

3. Actually that is the weakest argument in support of abortion.

People go to other countries to adopt because there are no healthy babies available in the U.S. to adopt. That is just a fact.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[U4ikLefty]

6. You mean healthy WHITE babies.

[former9thward]

11. There are bias against black babies and boy babies (of any race)

But that does not mean that blacks and boys are not adopted. There are 200 families waiting for every white baby. There are 70 families waiting for every black baby. That is still a lot of competition. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=547647&page=1

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[former9thward]

13. You are bringing up a completely different subject.

In your OP you were not talking about abortion overseas. You implied, with no facts whatsoever, babies were going unadopted in the U.S. That is just not true. Some people in all states (red and yes blue) don't like boy babies. Some people don't want blacks. But that does not mean that babies sit around for years unadopted. There is competition for all healthy babies. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=547647&page=1

[REP]

15. Weakest because babies aren't consumer goods; pregnant women aren't vending machines

This is a repost of something I've posted more than once:


Poor young women with unwanted pregnancies are not vending machines for the desires of infertile wealthy couples (I've never heard of a middle-class or wealthy woman giving up her newborn to a poor or working-class infertile couple, have you?). Babies are not things to be desired and obtained; they are human beings. Adoption is a course of last resort for the child when the parents or family are unable to tend to it; not a way for people to get things they want. Forcing women to undergo pregnancy and childbirth so they can hand over the helpless newborn to strangers is a not a humane solution.

Some studies on the long-term psychological sequelae to adoption:

J Obstet Gynecol Neonatal Nurs. 1999 Jul-Aug;28(4):395-400.
Related Articles, Links

Postadoptive reactions of the relinquishing mother: a review.

Askren HA, Bloom KC.

Deer Valley OB/GYN, Mesa, AZ, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the literature addressing the process of relinquishment as it relates to the birth mother. DATA SOURCES: Computerized searches in CINAHL; Article 1 st, PsycFIRST, and SocioAbs databases, using the keywords adoption and relinquishment; and ancestral bibliographies. STUDY SELECTION: Articles from indexed journals in the English language relevant to the keywords were evaluated. No studies were located before 1978. Studies that sampled only an adolescent population were excluded. Twelve studies met the inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: Data were extracted and information was organized under the following headings: grief reaction, long-term effects, efforts to resolve, and influences on the relinquishment experience. DATA SYNTHESIS: A grief reaction unique to the relinquishing mother was identified. Although this reaction consists of features characteristic of the normal grief reaction, these features persist and often lead to chronic, unresolved grief. CONCLUSIONS: The relinquishing mother is at risk for long-term physical, psychologic, and social repercussions. Although interventions have been proposed, little is known about their effectiveness in preventing or alleviating these repercussions.

Med J Aust. 1986 Feb 3;144(3):117-9.
Related Articles, Links

Psychological disability in women who relinquish a baby for adoption.

Condon JT.

During 1986, approximately 2000 women in Australia are likely to relinquish a baby for adoption. A study is presented of 20 relinquishing mothers that demonstrates a very high incidence of pathological grief reactions which have failed to resolve although many years have elapsed since the relinquishment. This group had abnormally high scores for depression and psychosomatic symptoms on the Middlesex Hospital questionnaire. Factors that militate against the resolution of grief after relinquishment are discussed. Guidelines for the medical profession that are aimed at preventing psychological disability in relinquishing mothers are outlined.

Community Health Stud. 1990;14(2):180-9.
Related Articles, Links

Erratum in:
• Community Health Stud 1990;14(3):314.

Social factors associated with the decision to relinquish a baby for adoption.

Najman JM, Morrison J, Keeping JD, Andersen MJ, Williams GM.

Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Queensland.

Little is known about the characteristics, social circumstances and mental health of women who give a child up for adoption. This paper reports data from a longitudinal study of 8556 women interviewed initially at their first obstetrical visit. In total, 7668 proceeded to give birth to a live singleton baby, of which 64 then relinquished the baby for adoption. Relinquishing mothers were predominantly 18 years of age or younger, in the lowest family income group, single, having an unplanned and/or unwanted baby and reported that they were not living with a partner. These women were somewhat more likely to manifest symptoms of anxiety and depression both prior, and subsequent to, the adoption, but the majority of relinquishing mothers were of 'normal' mental health. The decision to relinquish a baby appears to be a consequence of an unwanted pregnancy experienced by an economically deprived single mother rather than the result of emotional or psychological/psychiatric considerations. These findings document a particular dimension of the impact of poverty on health.

[former9thward]

44. Nice strawman you built.

No one is suggesting that "women be forced to undergo pregnancy and childbirth" so others can have the babies. I was replying to the OP who falsely suggested that babies were being abandoned in the U.S. because no one would adopt them. That is false.

[lightningandsnow]

28. And you don't think it's ableist that people only want "healthy" babies?

Disabled children deserve loving homes too.

[former9thward]

38. Who said they didn't?

What is your solution?

[lightningandsnow]

42. We can make society less ableist (and classist and racist) while still supporting abortion rights.

The idea that disabled children are abused, neglected and abandoned simply because their parents should have had abortions, instead of because society is grossly bigoted, really misses the point.

This stuff is complex, but I support a woman's right to have an abortion quickly and safely for any reason.

[madokie]

40. How is it a fact that there are more healthy babies born in other countries?

Link please
Again you are so full of it your eyes are brown, you know the color of shit brown. Oh and your god he doesn't exist either

[former9thward]

43. Link??? Are you saying that you don't believe Americans go to other countries for adoptions?

Talk about an alternate reality. Some people need that I guess.

[madokie]

47. I didn't say that at all. Now pay attention to what I typed

I said I want to see a link that there are no adoptable babies being born here in the States as you claim
Oh and the alternate reality is you dude, not me

[former9thward]

49. Please try a reading refresher course.

It may help. Please point to the post and the words where I said "there are no adoptable babies being born here in the States".

I replied to the OP who falsely stated that if babies were born instead of abortion no one would adopt them. That is crazy. There is intense competition for healthy babies and they are all adopted. The argument about abortion is freedom of choice not that babies will not be adopted. Now go back to the twilight zone.

[DainBramaged]

20. It's amazing how quickly the defenders of the womb are drawn to these threads!

And all of the facts and figures come form suspect sites and those linked to the birth conspiracy.

[former9thward]

37. You have not presented a single fact and you know it.

[madokie]

41. Yes very telling to say the least.

[Faux pas]

2. How unconstitutional is it for the gubnent to mess with women's

bodies and reproductive rights and not men's? To me Viagra could be classified as a weapon...I always wonder how many rapists are using it to aid in their crimes.

[Anakin Skywalker]

8. Insurance criminal scums will pay for Viagra but will not pay for some pre-existing conditions, etc.

[Faux pas]

14. I know, just makes it worse and makes me madder.

[JustAnotherGen]

5. I hit them with

birth control on demand for every womb and man - on demand . . . At Governmetn dispensaries using tax dollars. ;-)

[ChoppinBroccoli]

9. Hit Them With This Compromise

When they give you some mealy-mouthed response (dodge) to the whole, "will you adopt the babies" question, follow it up with this: "OK, then, we'll compromise. How about you just agree to have your taxes raised in order to fund programs that help feed, shelter, clothe, educate, insure, and otherwise care for all the unwanted babies you're forcing to be born? Oh, and we'll have to raise your taxes a bit more to fund law enforcement programs aimed at protecting unwanted children from abuse and all the things that go along with that. Certainly, it's a small price to pay in order to "save the soul" of a nation and avoid the wrath of the Almighty, right? Laws have consequences, and the consequences of the law YOU want are higher taxes for you. Gotta pay the piper if you want to dance, you know. You MUST know this, because you're all about 'personal responsibility,' right? SURELY you'd agree to THAT.................WOULDN'T YOU???"

Of course, we all know what their response to THIS question is as well.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. Well said!

:yourock:

[liberalla]

17. I like your approach on this. I imagine it would make them

think twice about all the unplanned, unanticipated results of forced birth. Not that it would change their mind, but anytime people have to give more thought and consideration to their decisions and consequences of those decisions... well, that's a good thing.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

12. Or financially support the mother and her child to adulthood?? I've asked this

before and heard crickets.

[lightningandsnow]

27. I addressed that in one of my comments.

People will always choose abortion for whatever reason. Period. If I were to get pregnant now, even if I was given the support to raise my child and finish my degree on time, I would choose abortion because I simply do not wish to be a parent at this point in my life. Even if I was fully financially supported, I just don't feel emotionally ready to raise a child, and I think that's something that will only come with time. Some people never want children, period. Some people already have children and don't want any more, not because of financial constraints, but because they feel their family is already at the right size.

Free and easy access to abortion does not exclude the possibility of increased supports for poor, disabled, and/or single women who genuinely wish to be parents.

Reproductive justice is about supporting people in all their reproductive choices, whether that be abortion, adoption, or parenthood.

[JohnnyRingo]

16. Conservatives are torn between "pro-life" and slowing minority reproduction

When the argument is made, they always say the woman shouldn't have been pregnant with a child she didn't want. No, they never say the man should keep it in his pants, it's always the woman's fault. This is because they feel it gives them the right to cut off government support for simgle mothers of dependent children as punishment.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Gormy Cuss]

22. How about personal responsibility for your mouth?

I'm with you on sex education and birth control access, but constraining abortion to rape and maternal health will just make abortion access harder for lower income women. Middle income and wealthier women will be able to shop for a doctor who will declare their health precarious or who will provide an abortion off the books -- that is after all how it was done when abortion was illegal in most states. Wealthier women can also shop for services across state and national borders.

Casting aside the why women have unintended pregnancies though, what makes you think being forced to take the pregnancy to term and raise a child is a good outcome for the child? Are all of these mothers and fathers magically going to become good parents? Do we really want more children who are physically or emotionally abused, because that it the inevitable outcome for some portion of them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. +1

:applause:

[blueamy66]

25. +1 again

nt

[Name removed]

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[colinmom71]

32. Except that your stance forgets the fact...

That ALL birth control methods have statistically significant failure rates, including even surgical sterilization procedures. Unintended pregnancies occur all the time even when contraception is used as directed. So, do you think a woman should be legally compelled to remain pregnant despite best efforts to avoid conception?

Before you answer, please bear in mind that any pregnancy can become a danger to the woman's health at any time from conception to term. Not to mention how disruptive it can become to her education and/or career path. And that's even assuming the father steps up with monetary and personal support during the pregnancy and through the child's life. That doesn't always happen. And many single moms can have a difficult time affording the legal costs of obtaining and enforcing child support orders.

In an ideal world, yes both men and women would exercise "personal responsibility". But we do not live in an ideal world - far from it. So, terminating an unintended pregnancy is one way a woman can elect to not have a baby if she feels like she cannot properly provide for it.

(BTW, I do completely agree with your last paragraph.)

[Missy Vixen]

34. Let me guess: You're a man

A woman would never dream of telling another woman with an unintentional or unwanted pregnancy to "raise their baby". There is NO foolproof birth control on the planet besides (allegedly,) abstinence, and we've all seen how successful that's been.

The reasons for a pregnancy termination are myriad. It's frankly nobody's business but the woman in question and her doctor's. I am thankful every day to be past my childbearing years, because this intolerant and non-compassionate country becomes more like "The Handmaid's Tale" as we watch.

[uppityperson]

50. Why should a baby made from rape be allowed to be killed? Why the Rape exclusion?

[joshcryer]

19. They should pay all the child support for the deadbeat dads, too!

[Skidmore]

23. Deadbeat parents are only part of the issue. The rest of the

needs of children are for safety in public and private spaces, educational resources, access to health care, and access to affordable shelter, clothing, and food for their families.

[JNelson6563]

21. I think that all the time. We know the answer's "no".

I really think some of these anti-choice people are utterly clueless as to what a nightmare life can be for an unwanted child.

Julie

[lightningandsnow]

26. I really don't like it when people imply "if we outlaw abortion more poor women will have children"

Not to say that's what you were saying, but just as someone who's pro-choice, I always find the argument that "if we outlaw abortion more poor women will have children" kind of gross, it drives me crazy when people imply that.

Every child should be born into a home where they are loved, and women should be given the resources to raise their children to adulthood if they wish to have children. I do know a lot of people choose to abort or give their kids up for adoption just because they want a child but feel like they can't afford it. We should be trying to reduce that as well, not because abortion or adoption is inherently a Bad Thing, but just because people who truly wish to parent often have that taken away simply by not being given the support they need.

[treestar]

29. Nope, because that is not their point

Their real goal is to to back to the 50s and earlier and cut off sexual activity using female fear of pregnancy as the stick. They think that works. They may be right to a point, as there is far greater freedom today than there once was.

If they are able to stay in power long enough and make abortion illegal again, they will work on birth control. Mainly, they will find it dangerous or unhealthy or some such thing.

[AngryOldDem]

30. Of course not!

It's easy to make decisions for others and sit in judgment of them as well.

I've been sour on most of the pro-life movement for years but this is what tore it for me: I used to work at a homeless shelter. One day I got a call from a woman who had just gotten her own place after staying there for awhile. (She got her place literally days before she gave birth.) She was hysterical -- she had been told that she had to prove she had the means to take care of the baby before the hospital would let her go home. She was afraid the baby would be taken into foster care. I immediately told her not to panic -- I would do everything I could to get her the stuff she needed. My first call was to a pro-life place that had baby supplies of all kinds -- from furniture to food. I explained to them in detail this woman's situation. They listened, and then told me that since she had not taken any of their classes, they couldn't (read: wouldn't) help her. I was dumbstruck. I remember saying something about their committment to pro-life then hung up. A few calls later, I FINALLY found a place that would donate a bassinette and other things, enough for the woman to go home with her baby.

Pro-life -- with strings attached.

[Name removed]

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[FreeJoe]

35. Is this really a powerful argument?

If you favored infanticide, couldn't you make a similar claim - that those who oppose infanticide should all be willing to take each and every unwanted child?

The abortion debate is nasty because the issues are difficult.

[DainBramaged]

36. we call it choice, and when the Pukes get out of women's wombs, we'll talk

Get out of women's wombs.

[Tennessee Gal]

39. The right loves those babies til they are born.

Then they would deny them benefits to help them have a safe, healthy, and productive life.

[Whisp]

45. da women have to learn to keep their legs closed.

simple as that.

:sarcasm:

yes, it's the truth of some

[chillspike]

46. Forget about adoption

My question is if forced sex is rape, what is forced childbirth?

[Le Taz Hot]

48. I'm more direct with them.

I ask, "So, how many have you adopted?" The brief entertainment that follows is always worth the question.