fences and conflicts

[Aerows]

I will tell you upfront that I am a lesbian, but I was also raised a Southern Baptist in the South. I don't recommend anyone take that route by choice, because if you do, either your personality is stronger than having blows taken at you constantly, and your spirituality is resilient enough to know what is kindness and what is ugliness or you are going to come out with all three characteristics.

And maybe the better for it.

I try to find common ground with all people, but lately, my lens has been relegated to "LGBT or Straight" because that struggle has been highlighted here. I have a bunch of other things I struggle with, but when we get into identity, uh, yeah, I'm going to step up to the plate.

My "identity politics" are not a problem, just as "racial identity politics" weren't a problem in the past. When they become one, I have one of two choices - speak up, or fade out. I'm not one to fade out, I'll go with a blaze of glory, or I'll do what is *really* want to do - speak up. I understand that some think speaking up is going out in a blaze of glory, but I don't think so.

I think we can touch people with our strength, stand up for ourselves and be counted, and let the chips fall where they may. I will always do this, and it doesn't mean I expect anything. It just means I'm a human being with things to say, things I feel and a respect for the people in the community around me.

I'm gay. There are some people here with some archaic views on sexuality. I don't like it. I don't like feeling discriminated against for my sexuality. I am not less of a person because I am a lesbian, and God help you, I'm not less of the Christian I was raised as, because I'm a lesbian, and you would prefer I not be a lesbian, or ???? fill in the blank ??????

[murielm99]

1. I am glad you are speaking up.

Some other LGBT people here are doing the same.

Some of the straight people here have been accused of homophobia. Either that is true of them, or they are horribly insensitive. On the Internet, it is not always easy to tell. Tone of voice and nuance are lost. And some people think their anonymity will protect anything they say. They would never say some of those outrageous things face to face.

If I am insensitive, tell me. My heart hurts when I see some of the things that have been said here.

Southern Baptists weren't always so bad. I think of Jimmy Carter. He knows gay people are are God's people, just like anyone else.

My first boss out of college was a Southern Baptist. She was very devout, and a liberal Democrat. Her husband had been a pastor in all sorts of places, and at that time, taught in a Baptist seminary. They were very accepting of gays, even in the 1970's. She was vocal about it, because her daughter lived in an apartment complex that seemed to have a lot of gay men. A group of them came to that girl's wedding.

I seem to remember that some of the people around my former boss had worked in the early civil rights movement, too.

She and her husband were easygoing and accepting of all sorts of people. I wish I could figure out what happened to that church. They don't have that type of leadership today.

[Aerows]

2. I've had to abandon the Southern Baptist church

I ended up in a Catholic middle and high school. It just seems like same God, but different ways of approaching God. One does it by rituals, one does it by aggrandizing their ostracizing of anyone that doesn't follow the faith to the letter.

I think it happens worse when one is devout, but you suddenly realize you are gay or lesbian. You realize that the fairy tales told in stories don't happen to you, and you realize that the religious fairy tales don't happen to you, either.

You are Sleeping Beauty, and you want Cinderella to kiss and rescue you, even when she puts on combat boots. When she does, it doesn't matter a hair that she's Cinderalla, it just means she's your Princess Charming.

Then, you are ostracized because she is entirely honorable, as are you, but you are considered disgusting because of the fact that you love a person.

[seabeyond]

3. hooyah... lol. surprise, i am not aligned totally. but yea to speaking up and out

and you are gay.

yup

so many years, and i am to the point, i do not know how NOT to speak up and out sometimes. always speak up. dont always speak out, but mostly. lol.

my huband is absolutely anti (not gonna do it), controversial. that attitude is very hard for me. yea, he mostly handles that i cannot be quiet. my kids have found a place of their own in this. for their age, i am going to say, mostly speak up. rarely out.

i live in texas. i grew up in AZ and CA. so, living in texas, i entered a whole new world of southern baptist, i had no clue about. i had hung around the progressive catholics in calif. i am non religious, and all religious, and no religion type of spirituality. all one. i put my kids into a private christian school for the academics and oldest child... skinny, glasses, intellectual. we had no private that was not religious. oh, what we learned. my kids were regularly figuritively beat up on for their non southern baptist beliefs. YET they were so highly respected for their christ like, turn the other cheek, love, kindness, "we are one" attitude.

that was such a huge lesson for all of us, but especially the boys. i say that, cause it was a huge lesson for me too. my oldest, especially, sharing his journey on this path of confusion and contradictions and pain... we would not trade it for anything in the world. but then as a family, we were so supportive of the boys, and left them to do, with the knowledge that at any time, they are pulled out of that environment. when they were ready.

i understand what you say about making you stronger. i would not change this experience my boys had at such a young age for anything. they were there for 9/11. movie passion and the escalation of rw christian hate. and they were able to move beyond, argue the ugliness in respect, disagree with love.

i feel the same battle you do, with gender. i imagine blacks and latinos are feeling the same. there is a reason we feel this way, and like i could no more allow a racist or homophobic comment be made without speaking up and out, i could not with a sexism comment either. its a joke, liten up. nope. wont do it.

it matters.

[Aerows]

4. Thank you SeaBeyond

And that's what I was looking for. You and I don't see eye to eye on certain issues, and truth be told, I put you on ignore once. But when it matters, you will stand by me. When it matters, I'll stand by you, and let go of by-gones.

That's what creates a community. And for what it is worth, I don't even remember what I put you on ignore for, because it was a heated discussion, but ultimately, didn't matter five minutes after it got started :D. You are a good person, and that's what counts.

[Aerows]

5. I read your post twice

And it was twice as good. You rock, SB.