100% of middle-class familes can come up with $2000 in a pinch.

[dawg]

If you can't, then you're not middle-class. You are either working-class or poor, just like the rest of us.

It sucks, but it's the truth. And the sooner more people realize this, the better.

[onehandle]

1. $2000 cash on hand, or $2000 borrowed cash? (credit card, loan, etc) nt

[EstimatedProphet]

4. Either, I'd say

The original question was: can you come up with $2000 within a month?

[eShirl]

7. any legal means of coming up with it

[JVS]

65. I'd count loan as long as you've a credible plan to repay it.

[Recursion]

2. That sounds like a reasonable dividing line to me (nt)

[givebeesachance]

52. Not to me. It's how much you spend. n/t

[sufrommich]

3. $2000.00 in a bank account makes you middle class as

opposed to working class? Most working class people who own a home and have kids get that much or more back on their tax returns. A real savings is having enough money in the bank to pay your bills for a year.

[EstimatedProphet]

5. But that really wouldn't be middle class

When has anyone ever been able to take off work for a year, and still have bills?

[sufrommich]

8. OK, I'll agree to that, but $2000.00 isn't a huge amount of money to

have in savings. I certainly know plenty of working class people who have more than that saved up.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. True

[dawg]

23. You're missing the point.

I'm not saying that $2,000 is all it takes to make a family middle-class. I'm saying that if you *can't* come up with the money, you are not middle-class and you are deluding yourself if you think you are.

That's part of the problem in this country. So many families think they are middle-class and that their interests are aligned, at least somewhat, with management and the rich. For most of them, they are totally off-base.

Why did we have a housing crisis? Part of the problem was working-class families trying to afford middle-class homes. (And a banking and real-estate industry willing to prey upon them.)

Many families used to be middle-class and are now working-class. They tried to cope by escalating their debt. For most of them, the gig is now up. Better to accept reality, and deal with it, than to continue to wallow in delusion.

[theophilus]

33. I wish everyone had your grasp of this issue. I totally agree! n/t

[laundry_queen]

78. I totally agree

Wasn't there some kind of chart not too long ago that attempted to demonstrate the perception of people. This chart had one measurement of 'amount of people in the US who classify themselves as middle class' and then another one 'amount of people in the US who actually are middle class'. The latter was about half the measurement of the former? Anyone know where to find that?

[Cresent City Kid]

83. There was a Pew Research Center study on this in April, 2008

The study was called "Inside the Middle Class: Bad Times Hit the Good Life." The self definitions of middle class were all over the place. With yearly income breakdowns from $20,000 and less to $150,000 and up, the lowest percentage from any income group was the $150,000 and up group with 33% of them defining themselves as middle class.

There is no official definition of middle class where you can be one dollar short or one dollar over the line. It seems to be generally defined as the types of things you can do, much like the $2000 test in the original post. Me personally, I made $50 short of $30,000 last year, by far the most I've ever made. I can't do many things that seem normal to a lot of people like fly on a plane, get a loan, or a host of other things. I couldn't get $2000 if you paid me $1500 to try.

Not doing well financially has never been easy, but in the '80's it was stigmatized as being rich was celebrated. I can understand how a person with just enough to get off the streets would move the definition of middle class downward to include himself. This in itself is not a problem, but millions of such people falling for the housing bubble trap was a problem. The bigger problem is the upper class leaving all other classes behind and the gaudy amounts by which they're doing it. Apart from advising people not to buy what they can't afford, good advise at any income level, defending the lower border of the middle class from wannabes is a meaningless distraction while the rich rob us all blind.

[laundry_queen]

88. True. Good post. nt

[givebeesachance]

54. Yup. Not a class issue IMO.

[Hutzpa]

6. This is the second thread I've seen on this subject

are you guys working in tandem (silly me, why should I even asked)

Here is what I will say to you and anyone else reading on this subject, you are
suggesting that people save $2000 from their monthly wages, that means someone
making that amount a month cannot afford to eat. There are people working for the Federal
governmrnt whom are not going to survive doing just what you are asking.

You want people to make cuts on items that are personal while CEO's are walking away with
record profit and wages.

This is another example of a conservative thinking that has overcome us here in this community.

[hlthe2b]

12. Yes...

This kind of thinking is why it appears we are about to unilaterally give in to cuts in social security and decimation of medicare...

Apparently the OP wants to RECLASSIFY all formerly middle class as working poor, given that unemployment, wall street hucksterism, and the continued attacks on wages and economic stability has decimated that sector of our populace. Well, the RETHUGS welcome that thinking.

No problem here... just keep moving...

[sufrommich]

14. I see no suggestion that people can save $2000 monthly. That

would certainly put a person well above working or middle class people.

[dawg]

24. No, I'm not suggesting people save money they can't manage to save.

I'm saying that the so-called middle-class in this country is mostly a thing of the past. People need to understand what has happened.

All those suburban "swing-voters" need to realize what class they now belong to.

[Hutzpa]

77. Your suggestion is that if people pinch their wages

they can save $2000 by cutting on stuff they don't want, but the problem here is that people are
already pinching, they are already making cuts, why not for once asked the top 1% to contribute.

[Javaman]

9. Simple definition of working class...

you get a pay check? you are working class.

many people in this nation fail to understand that basic concept.

All those making 50k and above and are repukes think they are someone special, when in reality they are no better than the rest of us working stiffs.

[EstimatedProphet]

15. Working class and middle class really describe two different things

Anyone who works to get income to live on, is working class. This even includes the high end of salaries, but not those who make their living income from investments. Where they fall as far as purchasing power may put them in the middle class.

[givebeesachance]

53. Exactly. You can have a PHd and make less than a garbage man!

[karynnj]

17. What if the pay checks add up to more than $50,000?

or more than $68,000 - placing them in the top 25%. What of $100,000 or even $150,000. Salaries that big do exist.

[Javaman]

30. If you reread my post...

I wrote, "and are repukes".

[karynnj]

45. That is silly - being a Republican does not change their social strata

There are people who are clearly poor - and Republican - look at some right wing Southern white males.

[Javaman]

48. Oh for pete sake...

it's not a matter of social strata it's their view upon society.

how many times have you read, heard or seen stories on the news regarding right wing morons who condemn the very same programs and benefits they themselves benefit from?

cripes, does that really need to be spelled out to you?

[karynnj]

50. The problem is that your post was wrong - and pretty incoherent as well.

Several people , including me, mentioned that in this country, many do not vote their economic interests or real economic situation, but the one they aspire to. That however, is not what you said in the first post - even if it is what you meant.

[Javaman]

67. Opinion noted and ignored.

You are the only one complaining.

This is what I wrote:
All those making 50k and above and are repukes think they are someone special,

I don't know how someone could misconstrue that.

you have your opinion and you know what they say about those.

[karynnj]

68. You left out the entire first half of your post

"Simple definition of working class...

you get a pay check? you are working class.

many people in this nation fail to understand that basic concept."

It was that I was disagreeing with - as someone working high in a major corporation pulling down $200,000 a year is not working class. Hell, Mitt Romney, when CEO of Bain Capital, received pay checks. Nice working class guy there.

You then took issue that I ignored your last, difficult to read due to very non-standard grammar. I responded that it did not matter if they were Republican in terms of their economic class.

The part I quoted of your post is wrong by ANY normal definition of what working class means.

[Javaman]

73. You get a pay check, you are part of the working class. period.

if you live off of investments you are part of the investment class.

just how it works, to bad of you don't agree with it.

[karynnj]

75. Then John Kerry, Ivan Seidenberg (Ceo of Verizon), etc are working class - they get pay checks

[hfojvt]

84. yeah, I think it is a dumb definition as well

$600,000 a year is working class. Well, they get a paycheck, don't they? NFL players and LeBron James (and the rest of the NBA) are working class too. Like size of the paycheck doesn't matter at all, it terms of style or quality of life.

[MedicalAdmin]

93. There are clearly 3 classes.

Owner (aka predator class), enabler (aka CEOs, media, and anyone else who does the owners dirty work for a ticket to the club), and the rest of us (workers).

[Javaman]

94. They live off their investments. nt

[karynnj]

97. The source of Seidenberg's wealth is his compensation from the various parts of the Bell System,

and then Verizon - via pay checks.

Are you excluding anyone with any investment income - such as via 401K plans?

As to Kerry, his income for the first decade of his Senate career was his paycheck. Even at that point, he was never considered working class - and he would have been laughed if he had said so.

Not to mention there are many other not glaring cases of people who are middle class, who live off their paychecks - including teachers, lower and middle management people at any corporation, firemen, policemen, many federal workers. All living off paychecks - all not working class.

[Javaman]

74. dupe. nt

[Harmony Blue]

31. Thank you!

If you receive a wage check you are part of the working class.

[SoCalDem]

59. I would add a few to yours

have to tell someone at work when you take a bathroom break (or worse yet..ask permission)

have to ask for vacation ...and be worried that it will not be approved.....and being a bit afraid to take a vacation for fear that your boss may see how easy it would be to not have you there..... ever..

worry that when you have to call in when you are sick, you will not be believed

have no control over the work schedule you are told to work....or the number of hours you work

you may have an "office" of your own, but if you have to do these things, you are just a working-class chump who is a few missed paychecks from sleeping in your car...if you can figure out how to still pay those car payments

[readmoreoften]

92. +1. More specifically: Do you have to sell your labor to a boss to make your living?

If you don't--if you can live off stocks, dividends, trust funds, investments--than you're a capitalist. If you're your own boss, you're petit bourgeois. If you have to sell your labor or starve, you're working class.

[NNN0LHI]

11. A poll once that showed about 30% of Americans thought they were in the top 1% of wage earners

See what we are up against here?

Don

[karynnj]

16. Add to that those who know they aren't, but anticipate that he could become so

It is interesting that rather than having the type of class identification associated with countries like the UK, many people in the US act in the interest of the class that they inspire joining.

Even in 2008, the threshold AGI that puts one in the top 1% of income is nearly $400,000 a year! http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html What surprised me - though it should not have - is how quickly the income falls off. The median income is slightly over $33,000 - less than 10% of the lower limit of the top 1%.

[NNN0LHI]

21. You are right we can't forget about the Lottery players

They need to be factored in.

Don

[karynnj]

22. True

It is a paradox that the lottery is most consistently played by lower income people who need the money played more than someone in say the top 25%. It is rare that the winner is someone already affluent. Mathematically, it is not a winning thing to do - but, if they happen to be very lucky - it could completely change their lives.

On a slightly different topic - A friend posted this article of a study that showed that the lower 60% of income people are less happy and more distrustful when the income gap is wider. http://www.livescience.com/14638-income-inequality-costing-americans-happiness.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Livesciencecom+%28LiveScience.com+Science+Headline+Feed%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

I think this distrust fuels the anger that has hurt both parties at different times. In 2008, it was part of what fueled Obama's election and last year, it was directed at us - even though the Republican plans all increase that gap. The Ryan plan not only makes all the Bush tax cuts permanent, it eliminates taxes on dividends and capital gains and the estate tax. All while cutting nearly every program that is part of the security net.

[dawg]

25. That's what I'm saying.

People think they are still middle-class. But they think they still are, so they fail to behave in a rational manner.

Pigs, Dogs & Sheep. At least the Sheep *know* they're getting screwed.

The greatest thing the upper-class ever managed to do in this country, is to convince the "overseers" that they were the same as the plantation owners, when, in reality, they are actually the same as the slaves.

[nonperson]

13. Middle-class is far more than $2K in a pinch IMO

Middle-class used to mean financially stable well beyond the point of a mere $2K in a pinch. It was feeling secure in the knowledge that if you worked you earned enough to not worry about getting caught in a "pinch". You earned enough to raise a family, send kids to college, have decent health care and secure retirement.

$2K isn't even enough to pay my yearly health insurance premiums or one quarter of my property taxes. LOLOL

[Gormy Cuss]

26. The OP didn't state that having 2K in a pinch was the definition -- rather, a characteristic.

Some lower income people could come up with 2K in a pinch, for example. What the OP asserted was that if one is truly middle class, being able to come up with 2K in a pinch is a given presumably because to be middle class there should always be sufficient assets or credit available, else the person doesn't have enough wealth to be called "middle class."

Your definition of middle class describes someone who could in every case come up with 2K in a pinch.

[dawg]

28. Right, I'm not using that as any kind of dividing line or anything.

I'm just stating a fact. Along the lines of "All Olympic swimmers can swim 100 yards without having to rest."

That doesn't mean that anyone who can swim 100 yards is an Olympic swimmer. Just that, if you can't do it - don't start making plans for London. :)

[nonperson]

32. Got it

I misunderstood your post. Thanks for explaining.

I just don't want people to forget what it once meant to be middle class in America.

[TBF]

95. 2K is two months health insurance premiums for us. I think a better

gauge is whether you really have the three months (or maybe it is six now) of salary in readily available funds (checking/money market) in case you get laid off for any reason. It seems that workers got 401K's at work in the 90s and all of a sudden thought they were members of the investor class. Of course we saw three years ago how quickly that can go up in smoke.

[Trajan]

18. These definitions are very personal and subjective ...

They do not ring of a common, accepted explanation of what is and what is not middle class ....

It's like listening to men argue about 'who is and who is not the best college quarterback' ....

To declare that having $2000 available dollars as the dividing line ... is completely arbitrary ...

Pissing in the wind ...

[Yavin4]

43. That's Not What The OP Is Saying

He's saying that one minimal standard of being middle class is the ability to come up with $2000 in a month.

Again, he's not saying that it's the only standard, and he's not saying that if you can come up with $2000 then you are middle class.

He's saying that failure to meet this one standard means that you are not middle class.

[d_r]

19. there is no difference

between "middle class" and "working class." There is just one class of workers. We all have a boss. There is an upper class of intergenerational wealth, and an under class of intergenerational poverty, and a middle class of workers that support them both. Whether you take a shower before or after work, you are still a worker.

[dawg]

27. No there is a difference.

There is a remnant of a middle-class in this country. Mostly, they are small-business owners and moderately successful professionals. Some relatively high-earning employees also make the cut.

These people can afford nice homes and cars, and can also manage to save for emergencies. Either they own their own means of making money, or their skills are in high enough demand that their incomes are relatively secure.

Such families are an exception - not the rule.

But the tv makes us think that most families are middle-class like that. It's no longer true.

[d_r]

34. good point

[Octafish]

20. No one's poor who can sell a kidney.

I heard it got one enterprising fellow in China an iPad, recently.

[oldhippie]

29. I think it has been conclusively shown .......

... over many such threads and polls, that we (DU) can never come to a consensus as to the definitions of "working class", "middle class", or "the rich." There's just way too many opinions here.

I've always considered myself working class (until I retired last year at 62) and thought of myself as maybe lower middle class. But I have always been frugal and have had at least $5000 cash on hand for emergencies, and at least a year's worth of living expenses in a savings account, since 1982 or so. That's on the salary of a low level bureaucrat with a wife, kid, and mortgage. It's how you live, not how much money you make.

[Angry Dragon]

35. I need someone to give me a definition of middle-class

[Spike89]

60. Although I believe the discussion is more complicated...

The middle class definition I would use (in a 3 class model) is: Middle class families are those that have the potential (albeit vanishingly small) of rising toward upper class within a generation or two, or the risk of dropping into the lower class just as quickly. The true rich have no such fear, and the poor have no hope.

[dawg]

63. Well that wasn't the point of my thread.

The point was, if you can't come up with $2000 within a month, well, whatever middle-class might be, it sure isn't you. And I don't say that to put anyone down. I just think that a major problem with the USA is working-class families who think they are actually middle-class. The think they are the Huxtables, and that their interests are somewhere between those of the rich and the workers. But actually, they are the family from Roseanne (pre-lottery). They need to realize where they stand, and who their friends are.

But, just for fun, I've heard this is a good way to tell what class you are.

When you go to work, if your name is:

On the building - upper class
On the door of a corner office - middle-class
On your shirt (or cubicle) - working class
;)

[Angry Dragon]

66. The $2000 really has no bearing

I can come with that and I am not middle-class
If you are going to use terms then they need to be defined........

No one in this country has the definition of middle-class ........... I checked

Then we need to have the federal government come out with a definition
Nothing against the OP but there are so many terms thrown out there with no one knowing what they mean

[Yavin4]

71. That's Not What The OP Is Saying

Think of it this way:

If you cannot read, then you cannot be admitted to college:

(A) That does not mean that if you can read, then you are automatically admitted college.

(B) That does not mean that being able to read is the ONLY requirement for college.

(C) It does mean that failure to meet this ONE minimal standard automatically rejects you from admittance

Translation:

If you cannot come up with $2000 in a month, then you are not middle class:

(A) That does not mean that if you can come up with $2K in a month, then you are automatically middle class.

(B) That does not mean that coming up with $2K is the ONLY requirement for being middle class.

(C) It does mean that failure to meet this ONE minimal standard automatically rejects you from middle class.


Get it?

[Blecht]

81. Lessons in critical thinking -- I love it

A lot of people around here need the practice to develop some critical thinking skills, that's for sure.

[One_Life_To_Give]

36. Would hope so

A water heater failure can take half of that. Septic System or Furnace troubles, a car accident could all exceed 2k. The old middle class dream of a house, car, 2.3 children can crumble quick when a little misfortune strikes. Thats why the recommended reserves are 90 days takehome pay. For middle income america that would be $12,000 minus taxes or about 10k available for any unexpected expenses.

[Yavin4]

37. Failure to Recognize Actual Class Status is at the Heart of What's Wrong in America

Because working class and some poor folk think that they're middle class, then they don't support reforms which would greatly improve their economic well-being. They won't work for a single payer health insurance. They won't form and join unions. They don't vote for politicians that work on their behalf.

[Juche]

80. Divide and conquer is a bigger part

Divide white vs black and latino, 'middle class' vs working poor, employed vs unemployed, straight vs gay, religious vs secular. You keep people at each others throats long enough to pick everyone's pockets. Sadly it works pretty well.

A big part of why many in the middle class do not support those reforms if they think their tax dollars will go to support blacks, single mothers or mexican illegals who shouldn't be here in the first place. So there is more to it than economics. There are major divisions including but not limited to economics that are used successfully to divide and conquer.

[Dappleganger]

38. Part of the problem is that many who think they are middle class are in DENIAL.

They don't want to be a part of the working class, especially if a decade ago they had more stuff, a bigger house and more money to do things with--they don't want to go back to saying they were a working class family living paycheck to paycheck because they find it demeaning. OR, they never were working class before and don't want to be associated with that group at all (serious deniers).

Ever watch the British comedy, Keeping Up Appearances? When I was going through rounds of chemo it was one of my favorite series to watch. Anyway, it stars a woman named Hyacinth Bucket (which she insists be pronounced, "Bouquet") who lives with a sweet, but lower-middle class man. Hyacinth came from clearly low upbringings (her family are mostly drunks and working class) but each day she does everything within her power to pretend as if she is really part of the upper class. She hilariously tries to mix with the upper class (who usually want nothing to do with her), get herself noticed by pretending to do things they do, even to the point of insisting that her husband buy a tiny vacation flat in the top of a castle somewhere just so she can say they vacation in a castle.

Anyway, I think that many middle class people are just like her...they came from smaller means and pretend to live high in order to make themselves feel better, rather than seeing their riches in family and friends.

The 2K issue to me is really not indicative if you're middle class or not, IMO. It's far more complicated than that.

[ecstatic]

39. Link? nt

[dawg]

55. Sorry.

It's one of those "water is wet" things. Kind of like, 100% of tall people are taller than 5'0". Think about it.

[Cresent City Kid]

89. I get it

I may have overlooked the ramifications of the delusion you spoke of, so I'll have to give this some more thought. What really worries me is that the middle class will be like the deck chairs on the Titanic with the rich in the lifeboats. I can't argue with your numbers today, but there may be a time when the only ones who can come up with $2000 could make it $200,000 if things continue the way they're going.

[peace4ever]

40. point being there aren't many left in the middle class anymore

as has been planned.

the elite are off to put other countries peoples in debt now, and they are practically creaming their jeans discussing their plans in the M$M.

[Yavin4]

41. The OP Is Trying to Define ONE Minimal Standard of Being Middle Class

Which is being able to produce $2000 in a month.

He's not saying that it's the ONLY standard.

Also, he's not saying that being able to meet that standard MAKES you middle class.

He's saying that FAILURE to meet one standard means that YOU ARE NOT middle class.


Think of this way,

If you cannot read, then you cannot be admitted to college:

(A) That does not mean that if you can read, then you are automatically admitted college.

(B) That does not mean that being able to read is the ONLY requirement for college.

(C) It does mean that failure to meet this ONE minimal standard automatically rejects you from admittance.

[Dappleganger]

42. I would say this, if you can't afford to send your kid to college w/out a loan

then you're not middle class. IMO that should be the dividing line.

[anneboleyn]

76. My husband is a professor at a college that costs $50,000 a year. How many middle class families can

afford $50,000 a year out of pocket? Well over half of the students receive sizable financial aid packages, and most of these students come from professional families.

[ellenfl]

44. boy, am i stupid! i never realized that middle class was defined by

how much money one had on hand. all these years i thought i was middle class! turns out i was among the poor for most of my life . . . in spite of owning a home, earning a college degree (on my own dime), maintaining a small ira and having always paid my bills, worked AND eaten. i'm gobsmacked to find out that i've only just recently become middle class! :shrug:

i think someone needs to re-evaluate what middle class means.

ellen fl

[Yavin4]

47. Again, That's Not What The OP is Saying

Being able to produce $2000 in a month is ONE minimal standard of being middle class.

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. good point n/t

[taught_me_patience]

49. The OP seems to be putting an arbitrary definition on what it means to be "middle class"

And completely disregards the many other factors that go into saving money. There are many american families that make significant money that save nothing at all.

[dawg]

58. I'm not putting any definition on it at all.

What does it take to be middle-class in this country? Where is the cutoff? I'm not sure, myself.

But you can be damned sure they can come up with a measly $2 grand in a pinch. If they can't, then how can they even begin to conceive of themselves as anything more than paycheck to paycheck wage slaves?

[givebeesachance]

51. It depends how much you spend, not have

A family making 100K who is foolish about money may not be able to even save 2K because they are spendthrifts and someone making much, much less can be frugal and have it.

[oldhippie]

56. We can't even come up with a consensus ,,,,

,,, opinion on what "come up with" means.

[dawg]

57. Why so many people completely missed the point of this thread ...

It is UNIMAGINABLE to them, that they might not be middle-class - that they might be like me, one of the great unwashed. So instead of reading what I wrote, they read things into it that I never said. Sad, how economically brainwashed we've all become.

[Yavin4]

70. I Agree with You

I tried using this analogy:

If you cannot read, then you cannot be admitted to college:

(A) That does not mean that if you can read, then you are automatically admitted college.

(B) That does not mean that being able to read is the ONLY requirement for college.

(C) It does mean that failure to meet this ONE minimal standard automatically rejects you from admittance

And yet, folks still don't get it.

[pa28]

61. Quite a few are in denial about losing their class status.

Losing that identity equates to failure for a generation that grew up believing in the old social contract that went roughly: if you work hard and play by the rules you will be part of the prosperous middle.

We'd all benefit by recognizing that contract has been torn to shreds before our eyes. Maybe at that point the former middle class would open their eyes to the tax, trade and deregulation policies that are doing the shredding.

[guitar man]

62. within a month?

Sure , I could do it, but what I would have to sacrifice to do it would make me hate this country for the rest of my bitter assed life :(

[JVS]

64. You speak the truth. The converse is not necessarily true.

$2000 is over a month's pay for me and I can still cover a much larger amount in a pinch. But I'm a compulsive saver without children.

[REP]

69. Everyone's middle class. Except the middle class is long gone, and no one will admit it.

You're right, of course; and you give a good example.

[TexDevilDog]

72. Kind of misleading

Kind of misleading to just state if you can come up with $2k
you are middle class. So people blow it faster than they make
it.

I know people that make good money and are deep in debt. They
live paycheck to paycheck. Their lifestyle and debt payments
would exclude them from being able to come up with $2k.

[Blecht]

79. I find this thread completely depressing

How can so many people misunderstand a four-sentence post, and then continue to argue with the original post's author about things he did not state even after he explained further?

I think dawg makes an excellent point here. If you think you disagree, at least take the time to read post #26 in this thread before you start banging on your keyboard about how he's "pissing in the wind."

[hfojvt]

82. what if I can, but I am not middle class?

A working income of $14,000 a year isn't middle class, is it?

Also, why isn't it possible for somebody with a middle class income to whiz their money away and over-leverage themselves?

A poor person is somebody with a low income and few assets. If you make $8,000 a year, then you are poor. If you make $180,000 a year but spend $200,000 a year on frivolities and status symbols, that does not make you poor, it just makes you foolish.

[laundry_queen]

86. Makes you foolish, but still able to come up with $2000

since apparently you have enough credit for $20000/yr. Frivolities can be cut out in a month if $2000 is needed in a pinch.
I cannot believe how this concept is so difficult to grasp. OP is right on.

[hfojvt]

90. not necessarily

I am thinking of a couple with a high income who has maxed out their credit card, bought a too expensive home which has now gone underwater by depreciation. Their income makes them middle class, but their spending habits (and bad luck in housing) make them working class? Frivolities cannot be cut out to the point of raising $2,000 either. Even if I cancel my cable TV and my phone (which I don't really NEED) there still will be a final bill due THIS month and so I haven't saved anything until next month. Between making minimum payments, house payments, utility bills, gas for the long commutes, money for kids meeds, there is no money left over and no ready credit.

Nope, I can grasp the concept just fine. I just don't buy it. Nor do I understand why there needs to be a distinction made between "working class" and "middle class". I've always felt that many people were both.

[TBF]

96. Yes, we were in that boat for awhile -

didn't have the house, but lots of student loans, credit cards, and too many expenses despite a very decent income.

It took a few years to get out. We kept renting, got rid of the credit cards (although still paying off, at least not accumulating more debt), and cut back.

And to be honest, we are still in our rental house. We like it, and although we now have a nice savings account we don't want to empty it out to buy a house. We'll wait until we feel comfortable taking some out for that (and until our credit score is high enough that the loan is sensible rather than crazy interest rates).

Some very strange mentalities have developed in this country - I see a lot of denial about which class people are really in and most have really no idea how much money the investors/CEO's etc... in the top 1% really live. They have so much more money than the rest of us.

[grahamhgreen]

85. Middle class means you'll have enough for retirement - thats 200 grand in a pinch, not 2.

[laundry_queen]

87. I agree, but what the OP is saying is

you think you are middle class, but if you can't EVEN come up with $2000, then you most definitely are NOT. Even if others (like myself) think middle class means being able to send your kids to college without loans and retire comfortably with sufficient savings, it still means that if you cannot come up with $2K, you are for SURE NOT middle class and why would you think that you are? Why shouldn't middle class be defined as being able to retire and send your kids to college, instead of coming up with $2k in a pinch. TPTB WANT us to classify ourselves as middle class because then we feel better. Can you imagine if all those who simply cannot come up with $2K in an emergency realized how poor they are and how unfairly treated they have been as workers? TPTB would be in for a rude awakening. So it's easier for them to brainwash everyone into setting the bar low so that everyone is lulled into complacency. Capiche? (sp)

[999998th word]

91. Very well put.

Knew there was a manipulation of some kind-something stunk,just couldn't figure out what it was.