Are people at DU DEMOCRATS or just liberals?

[brooklynite]

I can understand the frustration at having a Democratic Congessman face pressure to resign when Republicans who've done worse walk free, but when the head of the Democratic Party, the head of the Party Committee responsible for getting House members re-elected, and the Leader of the Democrats IN the House all determine that he has to leave, I'd expect more than accusations that they're all DLC sellouts.

[RandomThoughts]

1. I don't think they are all sell outs.

Although I do think they are scared.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. I'm a Democrat and I think they're sellouts whether DLC or not.

I've been a Democrat since 1965.

You?

[brooklynite]

5. 1967...

..and I've been involved in enough losing campaigns to have learned that agreeing with my political philosophy isn't all it takes to be successful.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. If you don't agree with the Party's philosopy why vote for them?

And, if you elect someone whose policies you disagree with, how is that "successful"?

[brooklynite]

40. Because I agree with SOME (or hopefully MOST) of their positions

and I rather succeed incrementally, than sacrifice ANY progress in the name of political purity.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

51. What do you call voting only for one party anything but "political purity"?

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[Avant Guardian]

59. The 'purity' meme failed miserably a long time ago

Using it shows your true hand.

The only thing 'centrist' Obama supporters hate more than republicans are progressive Democrats.

[brooklynite]

60. Find a way to get a progressive elected in OK, NE, ID and I'll cough up money to support them...

...and believe me, my wife and I cough up a LOT of money for Democrats of all stripes.

The bottom line is that, while I'm not a progressive myself, the philosophy of progressives is closer to mine than that of Republicans, so I'm happy to support them -- WHEN THEY CAN GET ELECTED.

If supporting a Progressive D over a Centrist D results in a Reactionary R, I'll go with the Centrist.

[Avant Guardian]

61. I do not fall for the 'liberals cant get elected' meme

The ol' 'give up before you try' syndrome.

[BzaDem]

63. Denial doesn't change the reality on the ground in those areas. n/t

[Avant Guardian]

57. I agree with the traditional Democratic philosophy

Not this 'centrist' gotta be 'more like Bush' bullshit.

[JAnthony]

3. Maybe people like me are just souls with a conscience, who abhor

lies!

If these elected folks want to stay in office, don't lie to us!

Plain and simple.

[1monster]

11. Then you must be cleaner than Jesus... and he was the one who said somethings like

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
"Judge not, lest you also be judged."

There are more, but those are a good start.

And as a disclaimer if you are not Christian. Neither am I. But I've always found that Jesus delivered some great advice.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[notadmblnd]

16. They all lie!

And it is absurd to think that there's a one of them that don't.

[emilyg]

48. We let them with out nods of approval.

[customerserviceguy]

4. Instead of playing the "they do it, too" game

Why not celebrate the idea that our side has higher standards for officeholders?

[pnwmom]

6. Why not, indeed?

Instead, it's seeing how low a bar we can set.

[Curmudgeoness]

13. If we set our standards too high, we may find that there is no one left.

It seems that it takes a certain type of personality to run for office, and the higher the office, the more they think of themselves. All of them. I am disgusted by 1) lies, 2) stupidity, 3) egomania, 4) amorality. But it seems that these are human traits.

[customerserviceguy]

21. Is it your contention

that the vast majority of Democratic men randomly sext women on the Internet, and we won't be able to find anyone who doesn't do that?

I am disgusted by the four things you mention, and I'd like to have our side say that those are things that are most frequently found in the hypocrites that are our opponents. When we argue, "We're no worse than they are," we always lose.

[Curmudgeoness]

24. That is pretty specific, so I will answer no.

I don't think the vast majority of Democratic men randomly sext women on the Internet.

What I do say is that many politicians (on both sides) seem to have a very active sex life or sex fantasy life. I wish it wasn't true, but they seem to enjoy the power and prestige and are willing to use it. I am saying that all the human frailities seem to get exaggerated in them, or maybe I am naive and they are just the same as many in the population but no one gives a shit enough to put all the ordinary peoples' indiscretions all over the headlines.

Would I prefer to have people with the highest moral fiber in office? Absolutely. But I am not THAT naive.

[customerserviceguy]

30. While we do observe the 'power trip' thing

in both the desire to attain political office and sexual adventure, the realities of the present situation make it imperative that at least a small portion of the careful thinking used to get elected should be employed to keep one's sexual escapades under wraps as much as possible.

Finding random women on the Internet to send pictures of your genitals doesn't seem like a terribly good strategy to retain a political office. Getting caught and openly lying about it doesn't seem to endear you to people, either. And putting an assclown like Breitbart on stage to thump his chest at how he 'gotcha' in exchange for a false promise to keep the nekkid picture of your genitals secret will lead people to believe you will easily put yourself into a position to be manipulated by your enemies.

I hope we have potential officeholders on our side waiting in the wings who can learn from others' mistakes. John Edwards and Anthony Weiner sure didn't.

[ClarkUSA]

7. I'm a lifelong liberal Democrat who proudly supports President Obama.

I and other Obama supporters represent the majority of the party's liberal base that consistently supports this party and this President. Of course, there is a very small minority (as represented in polls) who has never liked this President nor supports this party yet they imagine they are Democrats.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Does one have to support the president to be a Democrat?

Everything he does, says, or believes?

[ClarkUSA]

18. No, there are plenty of Democrats who are bitter, vitriolic, Obama bashing PUMAs.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Then, I guess, you're statement about "imaginary Democrats" is merely vitriolic.

Or, would that be "bitter"? Perhaps PUMA?

BTW Anthony Weiner is a Democrat and he's not "imaginary".

[ClarkUSA]

26. That's false. I never said that, my dear. The only thing "imaginary" is your strawman fallacy.

Furthermore, I could give a shit what people who always bash Democrats think or say. They are irrelevant to the Democratic Party's future, anyway.

BTW, Weiner won't be returning to Congress. :)

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. You don't give a shit about people who "bash" Democrats but call fellow Democrat Weiner "rubbish"?

[ClarkUSA]

52. That's strawman fallacy #2. Try exact quotes. Make it easy on yourself.

This is what I said, minus your bullshit paraphrasing:

"Furthermore, I could give a shit what people who always bash Democrats think or say. They are irrelevant to the Democratic Party's future, anyway.

BTW, Weiner won't be returning to Congress.

Good riddance to bad rubbish."

I stand by EXACTLY what I said, too. Want me to repeat that? Or are you going to try for Strawman Fallacy #3? :eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. I got it. Calling Weiner "bad rubbish" isn't bashing.

But calling Obama an ambitious, centrist, professional politician, running 4 wars, is bashing.

Riiighht.

[ClarkUSA]

56. No, it's an apt analogy. His lies were bad rubbish. What he did to his wife was bad rubbish, too.

Politically speaking, to the Party, he's bad rubbish that they want to get rid of because of distracting shit like this, not to mention the media circus he stirred up with his outlandish "hacker" lies:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1282624

What I find amusing is how some people are using Weiner's foolish predicament as a way to attack Democrats and President Obama. Weiner's self-inflicted FUBAR merely another convenient tool in that 24/7 arsenal of bashing, instead of a sign of yet another politician who has disgraced himself and knowingly lied to his supporters in a manipulative CYA.

<< But calling Obama an ambitious, centrist, professional politician, running 4 wars, is bashing. >>

That's strawman fallacy #3. Are you speaking to yourself again because I never said that, either, did I?

Furthermore, your rhetoric contains false elements. Of course, President Obama is an ambitious professional politician. So was Weiner. All people in office are although few approach the Clintons in that regard. However, President Obama is not "running 4 wars" (he ended the Iraq war and Libya is a limited UN-sanctioned intervention driven more by France and Great Britain than the US while the Afghanistan war is going to start winding down next month) nor is he a "centrist" like DLC darlings Hillary and DINO Bill. Fact-free false memes that have been disproven time and again are easy to dismiss now.

Be that as it may, your dig at Obama is an irrelevant red herring. Like I said before, I could give a shit about people who never have a good word to say about Democrats or President Obama because they are irrelevant to the Democratic Party's future.

[bluestate10]

23. Not only do they imagine that they are democrats, but some openly call

for purging anyone that does not share their rather restricted view. Even when those to be purged are the overwhelming majority. Foolishness isn't just a freeper trait.

[ClarkUSA]

37. I recall FDL PUMA Jane Hamsher demanding that Bernie Sanders resign because he dared support HCR!

:eyes:

<< "Foolishness isn't just a freeper trait." >>

You can say that again. I agree with every word you said. Nice to meet you! :thumbsup:

[baldguy]

9. The sellouts are those who see a phoney "scandal" created by RW propaganda

And jump at the chance to give it legitimacy.

[devilgrrl]

12. Western European Social Democrat

like Bernie Sanders.

[CreekDog]

14. i'd have a little more respect for them if they actually got into a shoving match with him

but the pearl-clutching gets on my nerves. Democrats have the best positions on almost every issue, and poll numbers backing them up on those issues --but back them in to a corner, or if they see a lightning bolt ten miles away, the leadership just gets panicky and equivocating hoping to make things all better.

it's like when the bully is in the distance and they are yelling across the playground how much money they're willing to part with if he'll just take it easy on them.

frustrates me to no end.

if they're going to be tough with Weiner, they can be tough, but this looks weak. act tough. remember how you called the Republicans out on Medicare --do that again!

[RZM]

15. This is a Democratic board, but not as much of one as its name implies

I'd say this is a progressive board more than anything else.

[Peacetrain]

17. Rank and file Democrat... Liberal.. when the top women in my party

those who actually work with the Congressmen are asking him to reassess.. . They are much closer to the subject than me. Murray, Wasseman-Shultz, Pelosi.. they are not circling the wagons around him to say the least..

These women are afraid of NOTHING.. so I am in a wait and see mode on this.

[TheKentuckian]

20. They fear much, mostly TeaPubliKlans and the disapproval of the wealthy

[mitchtv]

47. Ms Wasseman Shultz

was afraid to support Democrats in So Florida running against her "friends" in GOP incumbancies. For this she gets promoted? absolutely disgusting. mabe it wasn't fear, just treachery she should resign

[xchrom]

25. Democrats are liberals. Liberals aren't the good people we always assumed they were.

Progressives are.
They are very different animals.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[xphile]

31. +1 Exactly!

The idea of Nancy Pelosi telling Weiner to resign is a joke. No impeachment for actual law breaking but a request for resignation for what again?

[Edweird]

28. I'd say a pummeling a liberal Dem with political character assassination orchestrated by RW'ers

makes them far worse that just "DLC sellouts". But if you've been paying attention to policy up to this point you already knew that. It's unfortunate Weiner folded, but it is what it is. Kucinich folded eventually as well....

[whistler162]

29. In my book those that say he should stay after lying

about what he did... NOTE not what he did but lying about it! Demonstrate solid Republican values!

[customerserviceguy]

36. I expect Republicons to be lying weasels, don't you?

I'd sure like that mushy middle of so-called 'independents', the kind of people who make up their minds the weekend before an election because they have no underlying political principles to associate lying about misbehavior with Repukes, but alas, it's not going to happen in this election cycle.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. They're not sellouts.

They're whistle asses.

[demosincebirth]

33. I just remember the '72 election in which the in which the far left of the Party

was very, very active. Then the results.

[ProSense]

34. It's rather hilarious.

Weiner is being made out to be this larger than life figure, and he's not even standing up for himself: apologizes to Breitbart, apologizes to Democrats, apologizes again, announces he's seeking treatment and taking a leave from Congress.

He has made stupid moves every step of the way.

He's simply being used to attack Democrats and the Democratic Party.

[ClarkUSA]

38. So true: Wiener "is simply being used to attack Democrats and the Democratic Party."

[JohnnyLib2]

35. Someone please send me the the test again.

Dem, lib, prog, PUMA, I've been called each along with commie.

So, what the hell am I? Time for another evaluation.

:evilgrin:

[NNN0LHI]

39. Last I checked DU was still anonymous so I suspect a lot of different types of people post here

At least one of everything.

Don

[kstewart33]

41. I'm a Dem who won't kowtow to folks who apply a double standard.

A Liberal Dem can screw around, lie to the public about it, and when he's caught, he attributes his 'problem' to some unknown affliction that requires rehab (in residence of course), and many libs say, hey that's okay, he's a liberal who's a voice for us, so that's okay. Even when the lib Dem is applying the Republican game plan for saving his own backside.

But a Repub does the same, and they scream, 'off with his or her head, now!'

That is pure absurd hypocrisy.

If the Dem leadership (especially Pelosi) says Weiner's a goner, then he should go. Remember Pelosi? Who marshaled the passage of much legislation when other Dems were too afraid to do so?

Pelosi has more backbone than any male liberal Dem legislator in the House. She lost the House majority to pass the laws that required tough leadership. You want a lib hero? She's your gal.

If she says he goes, he goes.

[Fumesucker]

43. There are a lot of people who want politics to be a team sport..

It's all about the team and the team winning, run up the score.

Then there are those who bullheadedly attempt to adhere to a particular philosophy, however far they may fall from the mark and they always will.

None of this is straight black and white of course, it's all shades of grey.

[kstewart33]

55. Well said. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Some of the people here are neither Democrats nor liberals nor any other

kind of leftists. In 1980, they would have been Republicans, except that the Republicans are now too looney even for them.

[leveymg]

46. They should go back and recapture the GOP, or form a center-right Third Party.

Please, stop sabotaging the Democratic Party. I hardly recognize it anymore.

[inna]

44. ridiculous and intelligence-insulting; glad this is rejected by the DU community

[leveymg]

45. What has this current crop of leadership cadre really done except throw away opportunities?

That doesn't make me any less a Democrat to ask that question.

Do you have a problem with the Left-wing of the party? If you do, I wonder why you hang around at this site which is, and always will be, for progressives. Or, "liberals", as you so disparagingly (and inaccurately) label us.

[Marr]

49. I don't think they're DLC sellouts, I think they're career politicians.

They look out for their party, and that's to be expected. I'll take their opinion into consideration when forming my own, but I don't see how I have any sort of duty to simply accept it out of hand. My interests are broader than the welfare of the party.

[TransitJohn]

53. Increasingly, neither.

Leftists feel disenchanted by the Party, and the Party is hardly liberal anymore.

[Kaleva]

58. Wide variety of Dems and liberals.

[Rex]

62. Uh...liberals ARE part of the Democratic party.

What a stupid question.